1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,360 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:11,840 episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:17,520 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,920 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,000 It sounds like you're busting at the seams. You want to say something. 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:32,160 I'm going to save that for just a little bit, Beth. I do have something to tell you. 7 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:37,440 And yeah, so we're late on this recording, but I'll catch you up to speed. How about that? 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:37,940 Okay. 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,760 Okay. Hi everyone, this is Deb. 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,040 And I'm Beth. 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:49,440 And we want to welcome you to, oh gosh, Beth, I didn't write it down. Oh, episode 30. We want to 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:55,280 welcome you to episode 30 of Dying to be Found. We are so glad that you are here today. 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,240 And Beth, what were we talking about a second ago? 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,560 I don't remember. And that was only like two minutes ago, literally. 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:08,320 Oh, I know what it was. You and I were talking about how serious we are. I was going back 16 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:13,600 listening to a couple of our episodes and I'm like, oh my gosh, we are serious. 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,200 I know. I really noticed it in the last podcast. 18 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,800 Yeah. I think it is our nature. 19 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:24,880 It is. And even though I'm serious, I have a lot of fun at work and I dance in the halls 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,440 and I put my music on and I whoop my arms to people to say hello. 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,840 How do they react to that? 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:32,880 They love it. 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,880 Oh, see, you know what? You made somebody's day and that's amazing. 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:37,920 They do. 25 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,320 That is really good. Yep. I do that sometimes too, when I'm just walking down the hall and I think I 26 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:47,840 just have a smile on my face and it's amazing when you make eye contact with somebody and you 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,040 already have that smile on the face, they smile back. 28 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Wonderful. 29 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,200 Yep. There you go. All right. Are you ready for my picture? 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,880 I don't know. I'm kind of nervous and excited at the same time. 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:04,080 Okay. Why don't you take a guess what I did? I did a thing. It was a impulsive move. 32 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,120 What do you think I did? 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,640 Maybe something for mom's big celebration. 34 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,560 Yeah. I got her Chili's cards. 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,280 Okay then. 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,920 She won't tell me what she wants. 37 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:17,680 So she won't tell me too. 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:18,320 I know, right? 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,880 And I told her that I'm going to get her something she doesn't want. 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,320 Oh yeah. Well, I told her I don't want to get her anything that she needs. 41 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,520 She needs to get something that she wants. Okay. Are you ready? 42 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,400 I'm ready. 43 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,320 I haven't told you about this because I want you to be surprised. 44 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,280 Here we go. It's going in front of the camera right now. 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,720 Not that red one. 46 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:43,600 Is it? 47 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,640 Yes, ma'am. 48 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,600 Get out of here. What is it? 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,360 It's a little red convertible. 50 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,400 Oh my gosh. I love the color. 51 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,360 Did I not tell you about that accident I was in? 52 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,600 Yes. That was pretty bad. 53 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,880 It was. Okay. You all, just in case you don't know the story, 54 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:06,400 I bought a little pull starter dirt bike and I had a little wipe out in the neighborhood 55 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:12,480 because I was feeling the wind in my hair and just feeling the freedom. It was delicious. 56 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:19,520 I just wiped out my life flash before my eyes and I don't want to get on a motorcycle anymore. 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:20,400 No. 58 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,000 So guess what I did instead? 59 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,440 You bought that beautiful red convertible. 60 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,200 I did. It's a two seater and I told John I'll be happy to follow him up in the mountains 61 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,120 behind him on that motorbike. 62 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,360 So is this going to be your vehicle every day? 63 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,120 No, it's just my weekend vehicle. 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:41,520 Oh my gosh. 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,600 So did you tell the other family? 66 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,320 I did not. You know, we keep secrets. 67 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,760 I know we do. 68 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:54,240 I did not because it's frivolous. It was impulsive by, I actually did my homework on it though. 69 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,480 And I was trying so desperately to surprise John. 70 00:03:58,480 --> 00:03:59,120 And did you? 71 00:03:59,120 --> 00:03:59,760 No. 72 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:00,560 Why? 73 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:08,800 Because I had the worst experience. They were, they called me an hour before delivery. 74 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,160 This was two weeks ago. 75 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,880 They called me an hour before delivery to say that they were washing the car and they found 76 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:21,680 a leak in that roof. And then this past weekend, two hours before delivery this weekend, they 77 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,800 call me again and tell me they couldn't get some kind of gas card that they needed in 78 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,400 order to get the vehicle to me. 79 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,200 Crazy. 80 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:35,600 Okay. Long story short, I am very patient until I'm not. Guess what I did? 81 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:36,960 What did you do? 82 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,320 I called the local news. Did you? 83 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,440 Well, I emailed them. 84 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,240 Get out. 85 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:50,240 Yeah, I did. And they called me today. The producer called me today from the news station. 86 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,560 Oh, cool. 87 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,440 And they said, if this does not get resolved, because I basically told them, look, I have 88 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,080 gone through all of this for the last two weeks and they're supposed to deliver today. 89 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,320 And they were like, okay, if they don't deliver today, you call us back. We will. 90 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,160 Call us back. We will take care of it. 91 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,160 Things worked out. 92 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,800 Yeah, things did work out. 93 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,920 Because we're friends with everybody, surrounded in peace. 94 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,360 Because Canadians are known to be nice. 95 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,000 We are. 96 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:27,040 Okay. So let's travel back into America where I live because people are not so nice here, 97 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,760 especially with the story we're about to talk about. 98 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,040 Okay. 99 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,040 Are you ready? 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,280 What do you have for us today? 101 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:38,880 Okay. So today we're going to talk about the Tylenol murders. Have you heard of it? 102 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,200 Well, is this something that has happened like in the seventies? 103 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,920 No, it happened in the early eighties. 104 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,160 I'm not quite sure. 105 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:53,120 Okay. Well, I mean, this is pretty close to the time that I moved to the States. All right. 106 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,560 Well, we'll just get right into it. How about that? 107 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:56,360 Yeah. 108 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,920 Okay. So I'm actually going to start off by talking about the victims because there were 109 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,400 seven victims who died from Tylenol being tampered with. 110 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:12,960 And Beth, when I was doing my research, it was all so coincidental because all of the 111 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:20,360 occurrences that happened on September 29th of 1982, it was just way too coincidental 112 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:27,880 that all of the victims who, spoiler alert, unfortunately there were seven deaths in all 113 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,480 from this incident. 114 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Oh boy. 115 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:37,520 Back on September 29th of 1982, there were seven victims that died from the Tylenol tampering. 116 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:44,680 And the first one, Beth, this is so unfortunate. The first person that died was Mary Kellerman, 117 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,440 who was only 12 years old. 118 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,480 Oh, that's so young. 119 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:55,120 She was a seventh grade student living in Schomburg, which is a Northwest suburb of 120 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:02,260 Chicago. And just as a caveat, the entire incident happened in and around the Chicago 121 00:07:02,260 --> 00:07:10,120 metro area, but it was a national sensation. And I knew it as the Tylenol scare back in 122 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:11,120 the day. 123 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,400 I think now that I do remember this. 124 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Well, Mary Kellerman had woken up at 6.30 that morning feeling sick with a runny nose 125 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,440 and a sore throat. So she stayed home from school that day. She ended up taking some 126 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:34,140 extra strength Tylenol that morning around 6.30 and within minutes, Beth, her father 127 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:36,440 found her collapsed in the bathroom. 128 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,440 Wow. 129 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:45,120 Yep. She was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead at 9.56 AM the same day. Medical personnel 130 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:52,000 believed at the time that Mary had possibly died of a stroke. I thought that was for her 131 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:56,000 only being 12 years old. How could they come up with such a diagnosis? 132 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,920 Yeah, that's what I was wondering too. I've never heard of such a thing. 133 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:08,480 Well, later that day, Adam Janice was age 27 and he was a postal worker living in Arlington 134 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:14,460 Heights in the Chicago area. He called in sick to work because he felt a cold coming 135 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:19,960 on. It sounds to me like Mary was feeling the same way, like she was catching a cold. 136 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:25,640 Well, Adam just went about his day. He went to go pick up his kids from the preschool. 137 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:31,240 Then he stopped at a grocery store. It was the Jewel grocery store in the local area 138 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:37,480 and he had picked up Tylenol that day. Around noon, he ate lunch and then told his wife 139 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,240 that he was going to go take some Tylenol and lie down for a nap because he wasn't feeling 140 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:43,240 well, right? 141 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,240 Right. 142 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:51,160 Then afterwards, Adam collapsed and was comatose. He was rushed to the hospital where doctors 143 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:57,520 determined that he had died under unknown circumstances. Of course, it came on suddenly. 144 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,720 Where do you go from there? To me, Beth, honestly, the medical field is all a guessing game anyway, 145 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:03,720 right? 146 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:04,720 Yes. 147 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,800 Our immunity systems are amazing, but how do they ever come up with diagnosis? 148 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Well, we could ask our sister. 149 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:18,680 Although the doctors determined that Adam had died under unknown circumstances, they 150 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:24,160 felt it could have been related to cardiac issues. So they thought it was maybe something 151 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,160 to do with his heart. 152 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,400 I was going to say that 27 seems to be pretty young. 153 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:36,120 Well, moving on, Mary Lynn Reiner, she went by the name Lynn. She was also age 27 and 154 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,020 had recently given birth to her fourth child. She literally came home from the hospital 155 00:09:41,020 --> 00:09:50,320 with the baby. Post-birth, there is discomfort involved. So at 3.45 PM, Lynn said that she 156 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:57,000 was not feeling well and then took some Tylenol for her post-birth discomfort and collapsed 157 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:03,060 shortly afterward. Mary's daughter, Michelle, witnessed her mother's poisoning. So she saw 158 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:09,920 her mother take the Tylenol and she saw her mother collapse. Lynn's husband, Ed, had just 159 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:15,200 walked in the door right when Lynn collapsed and immediately called an ambulance. 160 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,920 How tragic. 161 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:23,600 Stanley Janice, and if you notice, Beth, if you were paying attention, this is Adam Janice's 162 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:30,240 brother. He was 25 years old and he was at Adam's house with the rest of his family members 163 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:37,560 making funeral arrangements for Adam who had just passed away. And at 5 PM that day, Stanley, 164 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:43,640 who suffered from chronic back pain, asked his wife, Theresa, to go get him some Tylenol. 165 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,920 So that would have been the same bottle that Adam took Tylenol from. 166 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:55,760 Yes. Well, Theresa, Stanley's wife, who was age 19, went to retrieve the Tylenol bottle 167 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,440 that was in Adam's medicine cabinet. So yep, you are right on. She went to go get that 168 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:06,680 same bottle that Adam had just picked up that morning while he was going to pick his kids 169 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:11,800 up from daycare. Both Stanley and Theresa took two capsules. 170 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,360 That is so sad. So tragic in one family. 171 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:25,040 I know. Oh my gosh, three. Absolutely. Stanley and Theresa ended up collapsing within minutes. 172 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:31,800 And Stanley's father, Joseph, remembers Stanley grabbing his chest before falling to the floor, 173 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,840 Beth, and foaming at the mouth. 174 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,040 That would be scary. 175 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,920 Do you know of anything that, any kind of poison that would do that to you? 176 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,040 No, I'm not too familiar with any poison. 177 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:50,160 Well, Theresa ended up going into a coma. And remember, this happened on September 29th 178 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:56,920 of 1982. Stanley passed away immediately, unfortunately, but Theresa went into a coma 179 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:05,320 and eventually died on October 1st of 1982. Stanley was pronounced dead at 8.15 PM on 180 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:10,960 the same day that he had taken the medication. And because of the unusual circumstances of 181 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:17,680 all three family members dying suddenly, medical staff speculated that Adam's home may have 182 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,800 been giving off carbon monoxide poisoning. 183 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,800 That sounds reasonable. 184 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,760 It does. Now, I will tell you, Beth, there was one time I was living in North Carolina 185 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:32,880 and I had the cutest little house. Well, it had a space heater in there, but it also had 186 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:39,080 a gas line that went into the fireplace. So it wasn't a wood fireplace, it was a gas line. 187 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,240 And I started getting a headache and I was talking to one of my friends, I was like, 188 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,760 I have got the worst headache. They're like, you need to get outside right now and go for 189 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,560 a walk in fresh air because it sounds to me like you've got carbon monoxide poisoning. 190 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,160 Wow. How would they know that? 191 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:02,360 I don't know the onset of a headache, I guess. I'm not sure. All right. So the family members 192 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,920 were placed under medical observation for a bit, but they all turned out to be just 193 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:13,760 fine. We have that mystery of what's going on. Stanley grabbed his chest, medical personnel 194 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:20,640 was thinking Adam and Stanley had some kind of cardiac related attack of sorts, but poor 195 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,240 Teresa was in a coma for a little while. 196 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,400 That's funny that how she ended up in a coma and didn't die. 197 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,800 I know because if she took two pills, you would think, I don't know, I don't know what 198 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,920 size they were, what their weight was or anything like that. But yeah, you're right. It's just, 199 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:44,760 I guess how the body can fend things off. Well, Mary McFarland, age 31, was a single 200 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:51,840 mother of two sons and worked at the Illinois Bell store. So Bell Telephone, right? 201 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:57,560 At 6.30 PM that night, Beth, Mary told her coworkers that she had a bad headache and 202 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:03,200 she left her work area to go take some Tylenol and collapsed within minutes, just as the 203 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:09,960 others did before her. Gosh, this poison really must have been pretty harsh for people to 204 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:16,840 be collapsing so quickly. Yeah. And it's all on the same day. Everybody I have talked about 205 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:23,800 thus far is all on the same day. That is really funny. Like not funny, haha, but very curious. 206 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:32,660 Very intriguing. Yep. Well, lastly, Paula Prince, age 35, was a flight attendant with 207 00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:39,000 United Airlines and a resident of Chicago. And she had landed at the O'Hare airport for 208 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,920 her last flight of the day. I mean, I'm here to tell you, Beth, I have a little bit of 209 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:48,200 everything and a whole lot of nothing on my resume. And one of those things is a flight 210 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:53,720 attendant. Why are you laughing? Because you're just so funny the way you put things. 211 00:14:53,720 --> 00:15:00,680 So, back in the day when I was a flight attendant, I sometimes flew across the entire country 212 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,600 and there were other times where I would take a flight and be back the same day. And you 213 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:12,100 could be literally, you could be on four different flights in one day. Geez. She flew in for 214 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:19,600 her last flight of the day to the O'Hare airport and on the way home, Paula stopped at a Walgreens 215 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,320 to pick up some Tylenol to relieve the onset of cold symptoms. Okay. Another thing here 216 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:32,360 too is that I'm noticing several of these people were taking Tylenol pain reliever for 217 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:39,000 cold symptoms. Was it pain reliever or was it maybe? It was, it was extra strength Tylenol. 218 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,320 Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess if you got aches and pains, I mean, that to me sounds like 219 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,680 the flu, but again, I'm not a medical doctor, so I'm assuming they were probably feeling 220 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,320 aches and pains and of course headache. I don't know how you feel whenever you get a 221 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:58,760 cold, if you get a headache or not. No, and I certainly don't take Tylenol for symptoms 222 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:06,480 of a cold or... Yeah. Well, surveillance video captured Paula making the purchase of her 223 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:13,120 Tylenol as she was found later in her apartment with an open bottle of Tylenol found on her 224 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:20,040 bathroom counter. So all seven victims in one day had taken Tylenol. Yeah. I just find 225 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,120 that to be highly coincidental. It is. Because you would think it would happen over time, 226 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:31,360 you know? So I'm very interested in hearing what you have to tell us. Well, obviously 227 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,660 there's going to be an investigation of these deaths because if these people are being taken 228 00:16:35,660 --> 00:16:40,360 to the hospital, then of course the medical staff is going to think, Hey, something's 229 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:46,000 fishy. I mean, all these people are coming in and it's a mystery as to why they're dying. 230 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:53,800 So they started an investigation pretty quickly and John Milner, a police commander of detectives 231 00:16:53,800 --> 00:17:00,520 with the Eimshurst police department, went to investigate along with investigator Fishoes 232 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:06,680 who paid a visit to Adam Janis' home on the same evening of September 29th. And of course 233 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:11,080 the family members said, of course, take a look around. I mean, they were thinking at 234 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:17,200 the time it was that carbon monoxide poisoning, but Fishoes made his way to the basement where 235 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:25,280 he saw a work area set up for metalworking. So possibly a welding area and Milner, the 236 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:31,260 police commander of detectives that had gone with Fishoes to the residence had mentioned 237 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:38,940 that sometimes in metalwork cyanide was used to polish the surface of the metal. And this 238 00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:44,520 made Milner wonder if maybe Adam had come in contact with some of the cyanide. If he 239 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:51,320 was using it in metalwork, he could have been exposed. For sure. And the turning point of 240 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:58,640 this case, Beth, came when police investigators linked one common thread between all of the 241 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,000 deaths. Every one of the victims had taken Tylenol. Well, that didn't take them too 242 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:09,240 long to figure that out, did it? No, thank goodness. I'm so glad that it was rapid. Now, 243 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:15,040 interestingly enough, two firefighters, one of them's name was Richard Keyworth and the 244 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:20,720 other was Lieutenant Philip Capitelli. Well, these two firefighters were the first to come 245 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:27,080 up with a theory that linked Tylenol to the seven deaths. And they went ahead and passed 246 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:32,560 that information on to Dr. Thomas Kim, who had treated the Janus family victims at the 247 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:39,520 hospital, all three victims. Good for them. Yeah. So while these deaths were being investigated, 248 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:46,400 authorities from Cook County compared Tylenol bottles found at the Janus's residence with 249 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:52,160 a bottle that was found at Mary Kellerman's residence. Now, Mary was the 12 year old Beth. 250 00:18:52,160 --> 00:19:00,340 Oh, okay. Yeah. So they started to piece things together and both had the same control number 251 00:19:00,340 --> 00:19:05,560 on the bottle, which I'm going to assume is similar to a lot number. So they know where 252 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:12,640 it was manufactured, right? And the same control number was stamped on both bottles. When Nick 253 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:19,160 Fischow's, the investigator on the scene, contacted the medical examiner's office, he 254 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:24,320 was told, now get this, I thought this was interesting. He was told to take a whiff of 255 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:29,200 the contents of the bottles. So basically the medical examiner said, Hey, can you just 256 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,480 like open the bottle and just smell it and tell me what you smell? And what would it 257 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:40,360 smell like? Well, I'm glad you asked. Both bottles smelled like almonds, which is a common 258 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:46,240 odor with cyanide. Is it? It is. I guess this is kind of going back to, okay, I've heard 259 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,900 this before. I mean, I don't know a lot about cyanide. I think it may have been used during 260 00:19:52,900 --> 00:20:00,120 World War II in some incidents. Yes. But I do recall that cyanide does smell like almonds. 261 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:05,040 Well, that's new to me. Yeah. Let me go ahead and tell you about the elements of cyanide 262 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:11,240 Beth, since we're on that topic. Okay. Cyanide has certain properties that does give off 263 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:17,800 the smell of burnt or bitter almonds. Do you ever toast almonds when you bake? Yeah. So 264 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:24,980 think about how that aroma goes off, right? Yes. Cyanide is a chemical asphyxiant, which 265 00:20:24,980 --> 00:20:30,560 blocks oxygen in the bloodstream. So even though you think that you are breathing, Beth, 266 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:36,900 it's just got a blocking chemical in there that blocks the oxygen in your bloodstream. 267 00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:42,880 And even though you are breathing plenty of oxygen in the air, your red blood cells cannot 268 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:50,680 pick up on oxygen. So basically you suffocate to death and very, very quickly. Oh, that 269 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:58,880 is really brutal. Lethal doses can kill you within 15 minutes of ingesting a cyanide laced 270 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:05,760 product. Once cyanide was discovered to be the poison used in the Tylenol murderers, 271 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:12,740 Beth, blood tests were run on all of the victims and investigators found high levels of cyanide 272 00:21:12,740 --> 00:21:21,200 in their systems, which was found to be anywhere between 100 and 1000 times the lethal amount. 273 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:29,360 Gosh. So I'm thinking possibly in Teresa Janice's case, that might've been a hundred and then 274 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:34,440 other pills, who knows? I mean, somebody put some thought into putting the poison into 275 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:42,000 these tablets. And they certainly knew what they were doing by making it such a concentrated 276 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:49,000 amount that he was set on killing people. Oh yes. Yeah. Well, wait till you hear how 277 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:54,200 they think they did it. But before we go on, I did just want to mention that a contaminated 278 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,840 bottle of Tylenol was found at Paula Princess's home and she was the flight attendant that 279 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,680 had picked up Tylenol on her way home from her last flight of the day. And between the 280 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:11,360 hospital staff and police, they basically linked all seven deaths to cyanide poisoning. 281 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:16,960 Now, let me tell you this, this is really what I just, wow, I'd have to dig into this 282 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,240 a little bit further. And to be honest with you, I wasn't thinking about it at the time, 283 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,960 but remember when I told you that the detective was told to smell the contents of the Tylenol 284 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:35,440 pills, the medical examiner told the investigators that they had caught an extremely lucky break 285 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:41,840 in this case because not everybody has that ability to smell that almond smell, Beth. 286 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:49,760 Really? Yeah. Only about 50% of the population can smell that almond smell of when that cyanide 287 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,640 gives off. Remember now, I've said this a few times, all of this occurred on September 288 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:05,080 29th of 1982, but by October 1st of 1982, this is basically the day that panic set in. 289 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:11,840 And yeah, I'm going to say, I mean, it was all over the news because investigators discovered 290 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,960 that Tylenol capsules were pried open and put back together. So think about this. Do 291 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:22,600 you take vitamins, Beth? No, but I do know what you're getting at. Yeah. So easy to be 292 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,400 taken apart. Basically back in the eighties for our listeners, back in the eighties, they 293 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:33,080 would take two little tiny pieces of plastic and they would put the powder inside of that 294 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,680 plastic and then basically put them together. So it looks like a capsule. Like if you see 295 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,600 a red and white capsule ever today, you'll notice it's literally one pill. But back in 296 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:48,080 the day, it was a powder put inside a capsule. And Beth, I am not kidding you, after I was 297 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:54,000 researching this, I've been, I take vitamins and some of my vitamins are in capsule form. 298 00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:01,080 Who regulates vitamins? True. Yeah. So I might have to revisit that. And of course this is 299 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,760 a one time incident that did happen quite some time ago, but holy cow, you just can't 300 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:13,680 be too careful. No. Well, Johnson and Johnson is the maker of Tylenol and they instigated 301 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:20,000 what is known as the recall that started them all. Think about it, Beth, how many recalls 302 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:26,800 do you hear? You hear recalls on several different products any given day of the year. Yes. Oh, 303 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,240 for sure. Yeah. Now I'm going to say they really stepped up because they recalled all 304 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,600 Tylenol boxes in the Chicago area. I don't know what the population is there, but I'm 305 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:44,240 going to say it's probably comparable to Toronto or Atlanta. I would think so. Yes. So think 306 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:51,280 about how many Tylenol bottles you see on the shelf. This recall occurred on October 307 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:58,400 1st and by October 5th, a nationwide recall was issued. And that is what I remember in 308 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:05,080 the news because media outlets, which would be news and radio, they announced the recall 309 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:11,800 and police also drove through the streets of Chicago warning people over their loudspeakers 310 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:19,780 not to take Tylenol. Wow. Loudspeakers. I know. They also went door to door collecting 311 00:25:19,780 --> 00:25:26,120 Tylenol bottles and announcements were also made at school not to take that product. I 312 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:32,200 mean, kudos to them, Beth, that they stepped up and got the Tylenol off the shelf so quickly. 313 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:40,400 They did, didn't they? Approximately 100,000 news articles were circulated on this Tylenol 314 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,880 scare across the United States. And this is when the panic set in. I'm not going to say 315 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,080 I panicked because at the time I don't think I took a lot of painkillers, pain relievers, 316 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,600 anything like that. But I do remember this being in the news and people began flooding 317 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,280 hospitals and calling poison control worried that they had been poisoned as well. Well, 318 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:07,160 I don't think they would be poisoned because nobody lives long enough. Yeah. So I mean, 319 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,160 I can understand that though. I shoot. There was a time when Shelby was little. Okay. You 320 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,060 know those little smelly things that go in your, that you plug into the wall because 321 00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:21,340 it makes the room smell nice. Yes. I use them. Okay. So those ones that you just push down 322 00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:26,760 and they have the liquid in it. Yeah. Shelby decided that, Ooh, it smelled good. Must taste 323 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:33,760 good too. No, she did. I call poison control and they just talked to me like I was crazy. 324 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,720 I was like, no, I'm scared. But yeah, I don't think she liked the taste after she'd tasted 325 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,280 it. She liked the smell. Oh boy. Yeah. Shelby, I'm talking about you right now. You ate one 326 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:49,320 of those was an air wick, something like that. A plugin, an air wick plugin. That's what 327 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:56,480 she ate. All right. In the meantime, poison controls, average call volume within an hour 328 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:03,080 is usually around 40 to 60 calls. When the Tylenol scare occurred and this story went 329 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:10,720 nationwide, calls skyrocketed to 800 calls per hour when the story broke. Oh my gosh. 330 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:17,720 That's a lot. Even the 40 to 60 calls per hour. What's happening folks? How many calls 331 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:26,400 do you take in a day? Too many. Okay. So there was a national recall and Johnson and Johnson 332 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:33,120 acted very quickly and did not hesitate to issue that nationwide recall on the Tylenol 333 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:41,320 product across the entire board. And this recall consisted of pulling 31 million bottles 334 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:52,080 off the shelf, costing Johnson and Johnson over $100 million. Oh my gosh. And reputation. 335 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:58,920 Yes, absolutely. And see, that's the bad part is when you have psychos like this targeting 336 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:06,480 a company who is just as innocent as the victims themselves. I mean, shame on them, but still 337 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:12,520 look at how Johnson and Johnson reacted. They did not hesitate to do the right thing. So 338 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:18,760 good for them. Yes, I agree. Yeah. And look, they're still in business today. They could 339 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,640 have completely ignored the whole situation, but somebody in there, I mean, that is, what 340 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:31,480 is that called? Common sense. Yeah. Common sense and social responsibility. Yes. Well, 341 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:37,080 corporate executives set up a national hotline to help out with that volume that poison control 342 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:45,000 was getting. And they offered full refunds to customers for any of their Tylenol purchases. 343 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,320 Yes, they offered to replace every bottle that was on the shelf throughout the entire 344 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:56,180 United States. They were willing to take every Tylenol bottle off the shelf and replace it 345 00:28:56,180 --> 00:29:01,520 with new ones. That's very good of them. Yeah. Cause that's on top of that hundred million 346 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:10,800 that they, it already cost them. Johnson and Johnson ended up testing over 10 million Tylenol 347 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:18,160 bottles for cyanide poisoning. Wow. That's a lot. I can't even imagine 10 million. I 348 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:27,440 know. That's tedious. It is. In the lab, don't you think? Oh, for sure. Yeah. Well, 50 pills 349 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:34,000 contained cyanide that were found in eight bottles. So out of the 10 million bottles 350 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:40,700 that they tested, they found 50 more pills in eight bottles. Jesus. A good thing nobody 351 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:45,840 bought those. Oh yeah. You're right. Because one of the contaminated bottles came from 352 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:53,080 a drug store in Schomburg, which is a suburb of Chicago. And Beth, this bottle happened 353 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:59,960 to be still sitting on the shelf. It was never sold to the public. Oh my gosh. Five of the 354 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:05,960 bottles belong to the victims and two were shipped back to Johnson and Johnson. One bottle 355 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:11,480 still remained on the shelf when they pulled the products off the shelf. Johnson and Johnson 356 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,480 was praised, Beth, that you had talked about their reputation and Johnson and Johnson was 357 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:25,720 praised for how they handled this public panic event. Fantastic. Originally their stock did 358 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,680 take a drastic dive because in any of these situations, Beth, you know, stocks go up and 359 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:36,400 down, especially if there's a crisis. Right. In this incident, their stock did take a drastic 360 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:43,920 dive but rebounded stronger than ever in less than a year because of how they handled this. 361 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:51,000 However, family members of the victims did sue Johnson and Johnson stating that the company 362 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,480 could have done more to prevent the tampering in the first place. Well, that's a little 363 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:05,400 unfair because nobody had plastic seals over bottles and ketchup and there just wasn't. 364 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,760 Exactly. Boy, you're getting ahead of me here, Beth. Have you been reading this before we 365 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:16,240 came along to record today? No, I said I wanted to be surprised when you told me. Oh yeah. 366 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,160 I mean, seriously though, I mean, what you're talking about is common sense. Absolutely. 367 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:26,240 And I will talk about that in just a little bit, but I did want to mention that by October 368 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:34,480 2nd of 1982, just a few days later, Chicago's mayor had banned all Tylenol sales across 369 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:41,600 the entire city to ensure that no more bottles had leaked out to the public. Good for him. 370 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:47,440 Authorities determined that Tylenol bottles were tampered with approximately 36 hours 371 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:54,120 before their first death in this case. So on September 29th, probably, I don't know, 372 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,520 two days beforehand, somebody decided that they were going to tamper with these bottles. 373 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,840 What does that lead you to believe? Do you think it was done in the factory or do you 374 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:09,320 think it was done in local stores? I think it was done by somebody walking in and grabbing 375 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,720 bottles or buying bottles and putting them back on the shelf. Yeah. Well, police never 376 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:23,120 found evidence of tampering or fingerprints on any of these bottles. So when I'm saying 377 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,200 that there was no evidence of tampering, remember the capsules could easily be pulled 378 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,260 apart and that's where the powder was put. Right? Right. There was no tampering on that, 379 00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:40,280 no fingerprints and it did not look like anybody had pulled those capsules apart whatsoever. 380 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,700 Police were also unable to connect the contamination because back in the eighties, there were little 381 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:53,120 to no surveillance cameras or CCTV. What CCTV? Close caption television. Everybody has a 382 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:59,520 camera doorbell now. Everybody has cameras on the side of their house. Oh yes. They didn't 383 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:05,480 have all of that in the eighties. They had some, but they didn't have near as many surveillance 384 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:11,080 cameras as they do today. Police did find it very difficult to pinpoint where the Tylenol 385 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,800 was manufactured because each of the victims purchased their products from different stores. 386 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:23,400 Now they did have that lot number on there, but I mean how many manufacturing plants do 387 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,120 they have for the product and each store received their product shipment from different manufacturing 388 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:37,520 plants. So it was really, really hard to pinpoint where the contamination was coming from. Oh. 389 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:43,840 And there was one manufacturing plant in Pennsylvania and another in Texas coming from those bottles 390 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,080 that they had collected. But again, it was highly, highly difficult to even pinpoint 391 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,680 anything because there was no cameras. Police did however believe that whoever laced the 392 00:33:53,680 --> 00:34:00,760 Tylenol capsules with cyanide did so by purchasing the bottles. Like you said, Beth, taking them 393 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:07,520 home, contaminating them and then nonchalantly walking back into the store and returning 394 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:13,200 the bottles to the shelf. That's a lot of planning. It sure is. Now I will tell you 395 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:18,520 this. I mean, it's an unsolved mystery here. What? Yeah. They never found out who it was. 396 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:24,580 You're kidding me. Really? You didn't know that? No. Yeah. I mean, they had some suspects, 397 00:34:24,580 --> 00:34:29,360 but they never ever found out who did it and nobody's come forward. Well, let's hear about 398 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:36,000 those suspects. Yeah. The first one is Roger Arnold, age 48 at the time, who was a dock 399 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:43,000 worker and was directly connected to at least two of the victims. Roger was overheard talking 400 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,920 one time about the Tylenol case while he was out bar hopping. You know how people like 401 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:55,080 to brag? For sure. People were thinking he was bragging about the situation. He worked 402 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:02,040 at the same warehouse with Mary Reiner's father. Mary Reiner was the mother. She went by Lynn 403 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,360 and that was the mother that had just given birth to her fourth child. I'll go back to 404 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,180 calling her Lynn because I had mentioned she was Lynn earlier. Lynn had bought her bottle 405 00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:19,640 of Tylenol from the store directly across from a hospital where Roger's wife was admitted. 406 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:26,160 Basically he was around the same location where Lynn had picked up her bottle of Tylenol. 407 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:31,640 Then Roger could be connected to the location where his wife was in the hospital. Police 408 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:37,800 also found incriminating evidence in Roger's home, which included do it yourself chemistry 409 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:43,680 books along with some lab equipment. I mean, I don't know what he was doing for experiments 410 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,160 on the side on the weekend in his parents' basement or what he was doing. Yeah. It certainly 411 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:55,800 sounds suspect to me. And Roger refused to take a polygraph test. I mean, you and I've 412 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,640 talked about that. It's not admissible in court. So, I mean, you can't really force 413 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:06,720 somebody to take it, but it does look suspect if you refuse it, right? Right. However, he 414 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:12,440 eventually had a nervous breakdown due to all of the media attention that he was receiving 415 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,300 over this case. So that to me, I was like, okay, is he really a suspect in this if he's 416 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:23,040 going to have a mental breakdown because of the attention that he's receiving? That's 417 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:28,200 true. Because if somebody's doing this, they want the attention. They're seeking it. Yeah. 418 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:37,280 So true. Charges were never brought up against Roger and he died in 2008. So if he was connected 419 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,120 to this case, Beth, he took his secrets to the grave with him. But in my opinion, it's 420 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,100 just my opinion now. I can't really say, I mean, he might've had a hobby of whatever 421 00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:53,100 he was doing with his do it yourself chemistry books. I mean, I'm a nerd in my own capacity. 422 00:36:53,100 --> 00:37:00,600 So maybe he was too. Yeah, you are. Thanks. Okay. Now, James Lewis, on the other hand, 423 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:07,260 now he's a little more suspect. James Lewis was somewhere around the age of 34. I couldn't 424 00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:14,200 get an exact age. So I said 34 ish maybe he was a tax accountant who took a particular 425 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:21,080 interest in this case. And this guy seems to have the most connections to not only this 426 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:28,380 case but several of the victims, Beth. Oh, yep. James sent out a copy of a handwritten 427 00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:35,600 letter to Johnson and Johnson executives, explaining in detail how easy it was to poison 428 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,040 people with Tylenol that were out there on the shelves. Basically, his fingerprints were 429 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:46,620 found on that letter and that's what gave him away. He went on to say he had only spent 430 00:37:46,620 --> 00:37:54,820 $50 on tampering with the product, then demanded $1 million in ransom money. Oh my gosh. You 431 00:37:54,820 --> 00:37:59,540 know how you have these wackadoodles that come out and say, Hey, I'm the one that did 432 00:37:59,540 --> 00:38:05,640 it. Yes. I mean, he is like giving it up right now. He wants the fame. Yep. He wanted the 433 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:12,660 fame. So just kind of backtracking a little bit at the age of 19, James had chased his 434 00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:20,040 own mother with an axe and was later committed to a state mental hospital where he was later 435 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,660 diagnosed with schizophrenia. Although he later claimed that it was all just a farce 436 00:38:25,660 --> 00:38:31,440 to avoid being drafted to Vietnam. I don't believe that. No, that's a little odd. Not 437 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:37,060 too many people run around the house after your mother with an axe. No. Well, James was 438 00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:44,840 also charged with but acquitted for a murder in 1978. And after his acquittal, James and 439 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:51,840 his wife got into the exporting business and attempted to ship pill making machines overseas. 440 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:59,020 Interesting. Isn't that a quinky dink? Yes, it is. And business, unfortunately for them 441 00:38:59,020 --> 00:39:05,520 went bust rather quickly. So nothing really came of his business of pill making or you 442 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,280 know, whatever he had to do with pill making overseas. James had also bought a train ticket 443 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:17,320 that placed him in the area of where the cyanide laced Tylenol bottles were placed or were 444 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:25,840 found. One surveillance video did capture somebody on the recording who resembled James 445 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:33,200 in the Chicago area around the time of the murders. But remember back in the day, Beth, 446 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,720 if you ever see an old commercial on YouTube from the 80s, you know the videos very grainy. 447 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:45,280 Yes. Yeah, that's pretty much what the circumstances were. And police could not make a positive 448 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:52,060 ID as if that were James Lewis on the video or not. So they were never able to bring charges 449 00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:58,640 up against him. However, James did end up getting charged with a 20 year sentence where 450 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:04,000 he served 13 years for that extortion letter that he had written. That's a funny turn of 451 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:11,680 events. I mean, he wanted the fame. Yeah, he got it all right. Yep. He has always maintained 452 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:17,360 his innocence to tampering with any of the Tylenol bottles, stating that he was just 453 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:23,880 being a good Samaritan by providing police with information on how easy it would be to 454 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:31,480 tamper with medication on store shelves. Okay, that makes sense. All right. In 2010, James 455 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:37,120 was ordered by a judge to provide a DNA sample because remember now back in the 80s, there 456 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:44,320 was no such thing as DNA sampling. But in 2010, he was ordered to provide a sample. 457 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,280 But again, they were never able to bring charges up against him. And at some point in time, 458 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:55,760 he had started a website where he again always maintained his innocence. And even Lynn Reiner's 459 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:02,080 daughter does not believe James has anything to do with these murders. Now remember, Michelle 460 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:08,440 witnessed her mother take the medication and collapse. Yes, she witnessed the whole thing, 461 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,680 but she doesn't believe that James had anything to do with it. So over the next four years, 462 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:20,440 many copycat poisonings occurred with Tylenol and etc. But were never linked back to that 463 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:26,320 original Tylenol scare. Now that's pretty sad having copycat poisonings for goodness 464 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:33,160 sakes. I know. I mean, everybody wants their claim to fame. They sure do. But could you 465 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:40,080 not like maybe pay it forward and do something kind? Yeah. So Beth, because of the Tylenol 466 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:48,280 scare back in the 80s, this ultimately is what made all changes in packaging. Okay. And you 467 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:54,560 had mentioned this earlier, how you have the cellophane over even food. Yes. Anything that's 468 00:41:54,560 --> 00:42:01,640 related to FDA Food and Drug Administration. So the FDA quickly made changes. I mean, they 469 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:07,520 immediately made changes to how pharmaceuticals are packaged, and they instilled stricter 470 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:13,760 guidelines in quality control. So yeah, what is that 40 years ago? Around 40 years ago, 471 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,600 all of a sudden, think about it. And if you can think back this far, Beth, they just had, 472 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,680 I don't know, Tylenol on the shelves, they didn't have them boxed, right? Geez, it's 473 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:30,480 hard to imagine, isn't it? They placed tamper resistant safety measures into effect. And 474 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,240 like I just mentioned, I mean, you've got the bottle inside of a box with the cellophane 475 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:41,720 wrapping around the lid, plus the foil underneath the lid. So you have to go through multiple 476 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:48,040 steps to even open the bottle now. Yes. And it's all because of this Tylenol case. Product 477 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:56,200 tampering became a federal crime, which imposes a sentence of up to 90 years in prison if 478 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:03,660 you are caught tampering or committing copycat crimes. That's a long time. Yeah. Capsules 479 00:43:03,660 --> 00:43:09,840 were replaced with pills because it's more difficult to contaminate the product. And 480 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:18,080 between September 29th of 1982, when the first deaths occurred, and December 6th of 1982, 481 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:24,480 tamper resistant packaging was released for distribution. So only within three months, 482 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,760 two and a half months, it went from what it was to let's seal this, double seal it, triple, 483 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:36,760 quadruple seal this. That was quick. It was. And think about how much that would have cost 484 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:45,760 to put into place. I know, eh? Drug manufacturers were ordered to remove all non-compliant packages 485 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:52,000 from the shelves by no later than February 6th of 1984. So they had about a year and 486 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,720 a half or two years to replace everything with a newly developed tamper resistant packages. 487 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:04,200 But because everybody back in the day were very socially responsible, most manufacturers 488 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,200 didn't even wait that long. They went ahead and pulled all of their products from the 489 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:14,200 shelf way ahead of the deadline and made sure that their tamper resistant packages were 490 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:21,040 on the shelf. Fantastic. The aftermath of this case, Beth, if you're thinking about 491 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:29,880 in today's terms in 2022, most witnesses or suspects from this case are either elderly 492 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,960 or have passed away. And also any detectives that were working on this case have since 493 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:43,200 retired. However, the Tylenol Murders case is still considered an open case with probably 494 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:48,840 a somewhat small Chicago task force still working on trying to solve the problems or 495 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,560 trying to solve the case, but not really making much headway. I mean, too much time has passed, 496 00:44:53,560 --> 00:45:00,100 unfortunately. One of the victims family members, Monica Janice, makes the sign of the cross 497 00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:07,740 every time she has to take medication. And this is 40 years after Beth, she was highly 498 00:45:07,740 --> 00:45:14,080 traumatized about this. Poor lady. Yeah. Because she lost three members of her family that 499 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:22,720 day. She lost Adam, Lynn, and Stanley Janice. And Monica was their niece who was only 10 500 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:29,800 years old at the time. She was with her cousin, Michelle, when they witnessed Lynn die. Yeah, 501 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:36,920 that's tragic. Yep. So Monica has suffered post-traumatic stress over her aunt's death, 502 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,840 but has since come to terms with it. And she does believe, I mean, if you're going to make 503 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:48,860 a rainbow out of a storm, Beth, Monica does believe that this entire situation happened 504 00:45:48,860 --> 00:45:55,240 to save other people by changing how medication is packaged today. And oh my God, do I have 505 00:45:55,240 --> 00:46:02,720 goosebumps? Yes. Yeah. I can't believe they never found anybody. That just blows my mind. 506 00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:11,760 I know. Because they did it for a reason. And always it's part of fame. Usually, yeah, 507 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,300 like you said, they want that recognition. They want that celebrity status, regardless 508 00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:23,960 on how sick it is. They still want it. So why would somebody not give a reason behind 509 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:31,940 it? Exactly. There's no satisfaction in that psychological mind. No. Well, that's the story 510 00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:36,940 of the Tylenol murders from the 1980s, Beth. Well, I think that's very interesting story 511 00:46:36,940 --> 00:46:44,320 that you have for us. It's always good to learn new things and how things are packaged 512 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,860 and where it came from. Yeah. One of those, how it's made moments, if you've ever seen 513 00:46:48,860 --> 00:46:57,400 that show. Yeah. So that's it. That's all I got from the Tylenol case. But wait, do 514 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,720 you have a teachable moment? I do, but I don't really have a long one today, Beth. I only 515 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:09,240 want to say that you need to be mindful of the packaging that anything you consume comes 516 00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:14,920 in. And just because the makers of Tylenol changed how they manufacture and package their 517 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:20,320 product, it doesn't mean that all food and drug manufacturers do the same thing. And 518 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:25,800 in today's world, you can't be too careful. So if something doesn't seem right when you're 519 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,720 opening a container, don't use it. And I'll give you an example, Beth. Have you ever bought 520 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:35,560 dented cans from the grocery store because they're on sale? No. Well, some people do 521 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,760 and the grocery stores tend to mark those down because they still want to get rid of 522 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:46,080 them. But did you know that dented cans have been known to cause botulism? Yes, believe 523 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:51,440 it or not. Yeah. So I mean, that's just one of those things. And then also check your 524 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:56,340 vacuum sealed containers. I mean, I'll give you an example like baby food or even canned 525 00:47:56,340 --> 00:48:02,060 foods. Sometimes you have that seal like did you use to can? Yes, I did. Yeah. So you know 526 00:48:02,060 --> 00:48:08,860 how it forms that seal? Yes. Press the top. If the top pops when you're pressing on it, 527 00:48:08,860 --> 00:48:14,160 the jar was never sealed properly. And that could be an issue where somebody contaminated. 528 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,240 I mean, anybody can go through the grocery store, open a jar, drop something in and then 529 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:26,160 be on their way. Medications should at least be double sealed minimum with that cellophane 530 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:33,000 wrapping and tin foil. So in a nutshell, basically just pay attention to the packaging. If it 531 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,240 doesn't look right or feel right, it's simply not right. So that's my teachable moment today, 532 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:44,040 Beth. Well, thank you very much for that. Sure. I'm just so happy to see you on camera 533 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:52,360 today. I know it's highly unusual. We, Deb and I have had this issue for months. It's 534 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:59,560 really my issue. She suggested one day, maybe it is your camera. So I set up another camera 535 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:07,440 and sure enough, she can see me. I sure can. It's lovely to see you. You too. Yeah. Well, 536 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,960 with that being said, Beth, I think that we are done with today's episode and we are glad 537 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,520 that our listeners took the time to be here today. We always try to find stories that 538 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:22,520 you can relate to and leave the content up to you. If you have a story that you would 539 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:28,880 like to hear, please email us at dying the number two, the letter be found at gmail.com 540 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:35,400 messages on Instagram or look for our link tree in our show notes to access a storyline 541 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:41,000 request. If you would like to know more about our podcast or your hosts, please visit dying 542 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:46,660 to be found.com spelled just like you see it on our logo. And that's all we got Beth. 543 00:49:46,660 --> 00:49:52,000 So thanks everyone. We will talk to you next Thursday. Bye. Bye.