1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,680 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on 2 00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:11,680 harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:17,280 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,840 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,680 Okay, you ready to record? 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,960 I'm ready! 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,120 Good deal. Hi everyone, I'm Deb. 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:34,160 And I'm Beth. 9 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,040 And we want to welcome you to episode number 26 of Dying to be Found. 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,960 We're so glad that you are taking your time out of your day to be with us. 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:49,520 Beth and I are always trying to find stories that you can relate to and leave the content up to you, our listeners. 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,120 So guess what, Beth? 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:51,620 What? 14 00:00:51,620 --> 00:00:57,320 We have a story that one of our listeners sent out. Thanks so much for this story, Katie. 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,800 And we hope that we do this justice. 16 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,160 But before that, I wanted to check in with you, Beth, and see what's happening. 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,120 Well, I'm doing great enjoying summer activities. 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,840 We still have another month before our schools get back together. 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,960 I was out camping in my trailer with friends this past weekend. 20 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,640 Oh, so you went camping and I guess, okay, 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:23,000 so let me just ask you because I did try to do a prank on you and to me it didn't work too well 22 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:25,160 until I saw your reaction. 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:30,840 Did you really think that you were getting a robocall from useless trivia on the texts? 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,840 I thought not. 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:41,800 And then when you sent a link to me to really click, I thought, holy cow, maybe this is some spammer. 26 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,000 So I very carefully clicked on that link that you sent me. 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,200 And what happened? 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,360 Well, nothing really happened wrong. 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,880 It's just that if I was leery, I shouldn't have clicked on it, should I? 30 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,720 No, you need to always go with your gut. 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,120 Okay, I'm just going to keep trying. 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:02,620 Okay. 33 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,080 You'll never know what to expect. 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,120 So yeah, I was telling our listeners that when we first started this podcast, 35 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:16,680 we were on a different platform and Beth was commonly known to drop just in the middle of conversation. 36 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,480 I always felt that was a great time just to tell little stories about our childhood. 37 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,480 So now I'm going to have to try new angles. 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,440 I'm going to be watching. 39 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,000 All right. 40 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,840 So let's go ahead and get to it. 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:35,800 Today we are going to be talking about a missing persons case based out of Hamilton, Ontario, Beth. 42 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,400 Well, it's not too far from me. 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,440 It's not too far from where we grew up. 44 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,840 So I thought that would kind of hit home a little bit. 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:43,400 Yes. 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:49,080 And yes, I wanted to say thank you to our loyal listener, Katie, for putting me on to this case, 47 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,280 which is sometimes known as the kissing couple case. 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,040 And Katie, we do appreciate you listening and sending in your suggestions. 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,720 So let's get going. 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,440 Thank you, Katie. 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,160 We're always up for new topics for our shows. 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,280 So thanks again. 53 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:03,400 Yeah, good deal. 54 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:13,880 So today we're going to be talking about Cheryl Shepherd, a 29-year-old woman who went missing on or around New Year's Day in 1998. 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:20,920 Beth, have you noticed there's a lot of cases where things were really happening in the 1990s? 56 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,880 I haven't noticed, but now that you mentioned it, you're certainly right. 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,800 I wonder what happened to that era. 58 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:26,280 Yeah. 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,480 And I will tell you too, it's ever since DNA has come out, a lot of this has stopped too. 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,560 So that's a good thing. 61 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:42,040 Well, we're going to talk about Cheryl Shepherd, and she was born on September 29th of 1968 in Hamilton, Ontario. 62 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,680 And growing up, she was kind by nature and liked by everyone. 63 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,800 She loved paintballing and horseback riding and was very down to earth. 64 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,440 Cheryl dropped out of high school in grade 10. 65 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,640 So that would be somewhere around the age of 15, Beth. 66 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:05,240 Cheryl was married twice and ended up going missing just after her divorce from her second husband was finalized. 67 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:11,320 And before her disappearance, Cheryl worked for about one year as an exotic dancer, 68 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:19,080 but disliked this lifestyle so much that she ended up going to work at Tim Hortons instead, talking about Tim Hortons. 69 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,560 Beth, you want to tell everybody what Tim Hortons is? 70 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,040 Well, it's like a Starbucks, but their donuts are really good. 71 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,600 Donut holes are Timbits. 72 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,520 Ah, Timbits. 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,520 So I think that would be similar to our Dunkin' Donuts here, maybe. 74 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:35,480 Yes, exactly. 75 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:35,880 Yeah. 76 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,080 And guess what? 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:37,320 What? 78 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,600 Grandpa knew Tim Horton back in the day. 79 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,960 He did not. 80 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,800 But I said, get out of here. 81 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:50,360 And he says, no, he says I knew him in downtown Toronto when he opened up his first coffee shop. 82 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:56,840 It wasn't a franchise and Tim Horton happened to be a hockey player too. 83 00:04:56,840 --> 00:04:58,200 Oh, that's awesome. 84 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,680 I know that I brought my son up playing hockey based on our heritage. 85 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,080 Yes, hockey in Canada. 86 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,560 Oh, that's so cool. 87 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:14,520 It's really neat to meet people who are well known, whether they're an entrepreneur or even a movie star. 88 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,520 I've met a few in my life, but that's just really so neat to say that. 89 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,520 Grandpa knew Tim Horton. 90 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,520 I know, not too many people can say that. 91 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:23,320 Nope. 92 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,320 All right, so we're going to move on. 93 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:31,080 Just so you know, Cheryl was the one who decorated the donuts in Tim Horton's bath. 94 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:36,440 I know that we usually take for granted that the donuts are ready to go whenever we order them, 95 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,280 but somebody's got to decorate them. 96 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,200 Yes, yes, exactly. 97 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:45,480 Cheryl eventually met Michael Lavoie, her unemployed father of three, 98 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,600 soon to be third husband at an amusement park. 99 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:54,280 Friends and family outwardly voiced a dislike to Cheryl's decision to date Michael 100 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:57,880 because he was known to have volatile relationships, 101 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,480 and in fact, he was unemployed and financially irresponsible when they met. 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,360 Regardless, this relationship moved quickly as Michael lived off of Cheryl 103 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:14,360 and her mother's good graces for a few months before actually moving into their seventh floor apartment 104 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,480 that Cheryl was sharing with her mother, Odette. 105 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:23,640 Well, that's one point that Cheryl should have realized that he was a mooch. 106 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:24,760 Yeah, absolutely. 107 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,200 That would be a big red flag. 108 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,120 Unemployed, financially irresponsible, I'm here to say, people, 109 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,240 if they have an excuse as to why they are financially irresponsible in their 20s, 110 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,360 that's a big red flag, and you just really need to pay attention to that. 111 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:39,080 Yes. 112 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,520 Well, the couple enjoyed going out to lots of public events. 113 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,400 Yeah, I can understand going out and doing a lot of things. 114 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,960 When I was in my 20s, I did the same thing. 115 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,320 I mean, we went to events every weekend, socialized with a ton of people. 116 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,720 So yeah, we always had a lot going on, 117 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,520 and they liked to go out to those events during their two-year relationship. 118 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:07,240 So on New Year's Eve of 1997, Michael proposed to Cheryl just after midnight 119 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:12,600 during a live simulcast event that occurred at the Hamilton Convention Center. 120 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:13,880 Have you ever been there, Beth? 121 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:14,280 No. 122 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,960 I've been to different convention centers, and they always have different concerts. 123 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,040 I've been to Dancing with the Stars. 124 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,520 I've been to So You Think You Can Dance. 125 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,160 I've been to lots of different concerts at the convention centers where my area is at, 126 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,480 and it's always really cool to people watch there. 127 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:30,200 Yeah. 128 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,280 Well, friends who knew Cheryl were taken by surprise 129 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:40,200 because when Michael proposed that New Year's Eve, she accepted. 130 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:41,000 Wow. 131 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:41,560 I know. 132 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Well, I mean, okay, so they've been going out for two years. 133 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,040 All those red flags and her third marriage. 134 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:49,160 Yeah, you're right. 135 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:50,200 And I will say this. 136 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,680 I did see the video where he had proposed to her, 137 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,760 and to me, it was nothing special. 138 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,240 He just basically pulled a ring out of his pocket and said, 139 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:58,520 here, I want to marry you. 140 00:07:59,160 --> 00:07:59,640 All right. 141 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,720 So Cheryl and Michael's relationship seemed outwardly sweet, 142 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,160 but nothing is as it always seems, Beth. 143 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,880 Michael did have violent tendencies, 144 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,480 and they were witnessed by multiple people over time. 145 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,360 Cheryl would tell her friends that Michael was very possessive and had a bad temper. 146 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:25,480 He was extremely jealous and would show up at Cheryl's job at Tim Horton's Unannounced. 147 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,280 Then stay there, Beth, because what better thing to do while you're unemployed 148 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:36,600 but to just sit at your fiance's place of work for eight hours at one time? 149 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:37,800 That's disgusting. 150 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,800 I mean, I would think it is, but while he was there, Beth, 151 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:47,480 he would make sure that Cheryl did not hold long conversations with other males in the building. 152 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:54,760 So this actually took place between Cheryl and her coworkers as well as customers. 153 00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:00,440 So he's just hovering around, making everybody feel uncomfortable. 154 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:06,200 If he felt that Cheryl was talking entirely too long to somebody that he didn't approve of, 155 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,640 he would clear his throat very loudly, 156 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,080 causing the customers and coworkers to feel very uncomfortable. 157 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,240 You'd think that the manager wouldn't want him to hang around. 158 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:17,560 Yeah. 159 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:21,480 I think at one point in time, the manager did tell him he needed to leave. 160 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,800 Well, Cheryl was often seen with bruises covering her body. 161 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,600 At one point, a neighbor witnessed Michael picking Cheryl up by her throat 162 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,840 and making threats toward her while they were in an underground parking lot 163 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,400 of the apartment complex they lived in. 164 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,840 You should know that Cheryl was only five foot, four inches tall 165 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,520 and weighed between 104 and 106 pounds. 166 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:47,960 She's a tiny little thing. 167 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:48,760 She sure is. 168 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,960 It's sad when people want to stay in abusive relationships, 169 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,000 but I think that right there is get out of dodge. 170 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,040 Gosh, yes. 171 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:57,080 All right. 172 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:04,360 To give you a perspective, Beth, my dog Dennis is only five pounds less than what Cheryl weighs. 173 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,520 Wow, that is something else. 174 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:09,080 Yep. 175 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,080 For those of you who don't know who Dennis is, that's my fur baby. 176 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,120 And you can see a picture of him on our Instagram. 177 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,800 And he's awful cute. 178 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,000 He is a sweetheart. 179 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:20,360 All right. 180 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,320 So this type of behavior was not just a one-time occurrence. 181 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,840 As friends said, this was very common behavior. 182 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,400 And these friends later reported to police that they had watched Michael 183 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,600 as he screamed at Cheryl saying, if you keep effing around with me, 184 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,760 something's going to happen to you. 185 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,840 Joy, he really does have a temper. 186 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:43,240 Yeah. 187 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,960 So he's verbally and physically abusive. 188 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,520 And that is just a no-go. 189 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:51,880 It sure is. 190 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,760 But sometimes people feel like they have to stay. 191 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,040 And I don't know what those reasons are, Beth, but she did tell close friends the next day 192 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,640 that she had planned to call off her engagement with to Michael, 193 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,800 but she was too afraid to do so. 194 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,520 And keep in mind that she disappeared less than one week after Michael proposed. 195 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,800 She had told people that if anything should happen to her, 196 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,440 that they should look at Michael, even saying that she might go missing one day. 197 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:24,600 It's funny, you know, I've read many books and this is what the victims will say. 198 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:30,200 If to people, if I go missing, you know where to look, check out my husband. 199 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:30,840 Yeah. 200 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:37,800 And so I guess what I'm wondering is what is it that is getting them to stay? 201 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,960 What kind of hold does a person like that have? 202 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,560 And I'm going to call Cheryl a victim. 203 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:48,040 What kind of hold would a person like that have on these victims 204 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,520 where they feel like they can't go anywhere? 205 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:59,560 Well, being scared is a very prominent problem for the lady who is trying to get away. 206 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:04,600 Being scared that she's going to be killed or harmed terribly 207 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,960 just because she wants to stand up for herself. 208 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,520 That's true. 209 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,760 And if he's so much bigger than her too, in all these different cases of stalking, 210 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,960 I mean, you just don't know what's going on through that person's mind. 211 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:16,920 No. 212 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:24,520 Well, on January 1st, 1998, Cheryl had called her mother at her family's home in New Brunswick 213 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:29,960 to wish her a happy new year because Odette had taken a vacation out East 214 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,360 and they talked for a few minutes. 215 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,600 Nothing was out of the ordinary. 216 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:41,960 Cheryl told Odette that she would be in Toronto on January 4th to pick her up at the Union train station. 217 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:50,600 And during this conversation, Cheryl did not mention one word to Odette that she had just become engaged to Michael. 218 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,560 That's a little odd. 219 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:55,320 Wouldn't you be excited about telling your mother that you're engaged? 220 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,400 Yes, for sure. 221 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:04,040 Well, after arriving at the train station, Odette waited for Cheryl, but she never showed up. 222 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:10,360 Odette eventually made her way back to Hamilton Bath, which is approximately an hour south of Toronto 223 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,400 for our listeners who are not familiar with that area. 224 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:19,640 And Michael met her at the door of the apartment where he, Cheryl, and Odette lived, 225 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,000 saying that he had not seen Cheryl in two days. 226 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,280 At no point during this time period did Michael report Cheryl missing. 227 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:29,560 That's very odd. 228 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:34,920 And it was during this time that Odette learned that Cheryl and Michael had become engaged, 229 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:40,280 because remember, Cheryl had not mentioned that on the January 1st phone call. 230 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:45,400 Cheryl had never mentioned this news before her disappearance, 231 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,920 which led Odette to believe that Cheryl had only said yes to Michael 232 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,520 because of the on-air proposal and public pressure. 233 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,560 I do encourage you all to go look at that video. 234 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:04,040 I'll put it in the show notes, but you can basically tell there was not a ton of excitement 235 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,920 between either one of them during the proposal. 236 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:14,520 And friends did, in fact, say, like I had told you, that Cheryl had planned to call off that engagement, 237 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,080 but wanted to do so in a public place because of Michael's temper. 238 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,920 I totally get that. 239 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,920 Yeah, I can see that as well. 240 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:30,600 Yeah, being in a public place, she may feel he's likely less to hang her by her throat or punch her. 241 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,640 Oh, yeah. 242 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,040 Well, Odette remembers seeing curtains in the apartment nailed to the wall, 243 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,840 which had been hung by a rod before she left for the holiday, Beth. 244 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,280 And the curtain rod was missing from the apartment when she got back from out east. 245 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,720 Very strange. 246 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,400 Very strange. 247 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:57,400 Shortly after Cheryl's disappearance, Michael moved himself and most of his belongings out of the apartment. 248 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,960 And when friends attempted to find out Cheryl's whereabouts, 249 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,600 Michael would always say that she was either sleeping or at work. 250 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,600 Not very inventive, is he? 251 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,040 No, not really. 252 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,360 He immediately became a prime suspect in Cheryl's disappearance, 253 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,160 although he was never formally charged. 254 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,000 During their duration of the entire investigation, 255 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,800 Michael initially spoke with police for less than 30 minutes 256 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,560 and refused to speak with them any further beyond that. 257 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,680 On multiple occasions, Michael told police that he would be willing to come to the police station 258 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,960 for an interview, but he was always a no-show. 259 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:44,680 Well, what I find interesting is that partners are always the ones that are looked at very closely, 260 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,840 and 30 minutes just doesn't cut it. 261 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,280 No, I agree. 262 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,480 Especially because there would be so much scrutiny with his stories not really adding up. 263 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,280 He hadn't talked with her in two days, the curtain rods. 264 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,720 I mean, you've got several things that are already suspicious. 265 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,760 You would think that the police would do a little bit more of a thorough investigation. 266 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:07,800 For sure. 267 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,480 When he did speak with the police during his 30-minute interview bath, 268 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,920 Michael stated that he had dropped Cheryl off behind a strip club in Niagara Falls 269 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,040 at 6.30 p.m. for a job interview. 270 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:26,520 Now remember, Cheryl had left the exotic dancing industry years earlier 271 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,160 because she did not like that lifestyle. 272 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,280 He doesn't know much about her because that would be a red flag to the police 273 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,800 if he knew that she didn't like that exotic dancing. 274 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,600 Yeah, surely he had to have known that she did that at one point or another, 275 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,880 but to me that story wouldn't line up, 276 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,200 especially if most of her friends that knew Cheryl stated that 277 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,640 she had never planned to return to exotic dancing 278 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,720 and would have more than likely told them if she had ever planned to. 279 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,360 Michael also gave conflicting stories as to who was supposed to pick Cheryl up 280 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,400 in Niagara Falls after her job interview. 281 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,160 And he told the police that her ex-husband was supposed to. 282 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,880 Beth, do you see anything wrong with this picture? 283 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,160 Oh yeah, you mentioned that Michael was very jealous. 284 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:21,400 So why would he allow an ex-husband to pick Cheryl up with his direct supervision? 285 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,360 Think back to working in Tim Hortons where he sat there for eight hours watching her. 286 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:30,760 Bingo! If Michael was so possessive of Cheryl, 287 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:36,040 why would he hang out at her job all day to monitor her interactions with other men? 288 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:36,840 Exactly. 289 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:43,720 Well, I find it difficult to believe that he would even allow someone that Cheryl had an intimate relationship with 290 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:50,120 to drive her home for an hour's commute because there were ex-husbands in the picture. 291 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:55,560 And if he wouldn't even allow Cheryl to speak with somebody at Tim Hortons for more than a minute or two, 292 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:02,120 then do you think he's really going to let her be in the car with an ex-husband for over an hour? 293 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,000 No way. 294 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,720 Plus Deb, do you ever think that he would ever leave Cheryl alone during an interview 295 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,000 where the majority of Cheryl's customers are going to be male? 296 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,440 Oh, absolutely. That's a very good point. 297 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Well, once Cheryl's ex-husband heard that he was named as a possible participant in Cheryl's disappearance, 298 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:28,520 he quickly went to the police to deny involvement and even offered to take a polygraph. 299 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:29,320 Wow. 300 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,720 Michael had told police that a friend was supposed to pick Cheryl up, 301 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:39,080 but didn't give any other names, so he really doesn't even have a story to go by. 302 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,280 No, which should make the police look at him even more. 303 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,720 Yeah, you would think. Especially because Michael was the last person to see her alive 304 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,400 because the owner of the club where he had stated that he had taken Cheryl to, 305 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,440 the owner said that he had never seen Cheryl for a potential interview, 306 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,640 nor had she ever been hired to work at this club. 307 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:04,760 What a diggling. 308 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,440 Yeah, I think I could probably come up with a stronger word than that, 309 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,080 but you know, we're trying to be professional here. 310 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,840 Well, you should also know that Michael also refused to take a polygraph test, 311 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,040 although Cheryl's ex-husband said that he would. 312 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,280 Now that's a red flag if I've ever heard one. 313 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,320 And during their interview, Cheryl's purse, wallet, ID card, 314 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,000 glasses, and contacts were all found intact in her apartment. 315 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,280 Do you ever know of a female that's going to leave to go anywhere without her purse? 316 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,320 No way, especially me. How about you? 317 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,120 Oh, I change purses all the time and it drives me crazy because I'll always end up leaving 318 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:52,280 something in the other purse that I really need for whatever outing I just went on. 319 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,320 Exactly. 320 00:19:53,320 --> 00:20:00,200 Yeah, so Odette confirmed that Cheryl would never leave home without any of these items. 321 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,560 Well, Michael also told police during one interview that he had broken 322 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:11,560 his ex-girlfriend's cheekbones during an argument and would often have fantasies 323 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:17,160 about killing her. Why would you come out and straightforward say that in an interview? 324 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,760 It goes to show you that his faculties aren't with him. He must have a very low IQ. 325 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,920 Oh yeah, that's an interesting take on that. Sure. 326 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,960 And during that incident where he had broken his ex-girlfriend's cheekbones, Beth, 327 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,640 Michael went to a local gas station and told an attendant that he had killed her. 328 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:43,960 So when police were called, she was found very much alive and Michael was only charged with 329 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,280 public misconduct. That's bizarre. That's just bizarre behavior. 330 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,840 It is. Maybe it's a corrupt police force back in the day. 331 00:20:52,840 --> 00:21:00,280 Possibly, but as far as public misconduct, I mean, how about assault and attempt to do bodily harm? 332 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,280 He broke the girl's cheekbones. 333 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:09,320 That's disgusting. And what's more disgusting is the fact that he's getting away with this. 334 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:16,360 Yeah. And he went on to refuse participation in any search party activities or appear at 335 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:21,800 any public press conferences to plea for Cheryl's safe return. I mean, that in itself, Beth, 336 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:30,600 you and I have done a couple podcast episodes where the family is begging for somebody to come 337 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,440 forward and bring their loved one home safely, you know? 338 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,840 Yeah. You took the words right out of my mouth. 339 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:44,440 And police found stains in the apartment hallways, which could not be ruled as Cheryl's blood, 340 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:51,080 but it could not be ruled out. So that might be from, I'm thinking from the curtain rod, 341 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:58,840 if the curtain rod's missing. Acquaintances of the couple also found Michael's behavior to turn 342 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,640 a little bit odd, Beth, after Cheryl's disappearance. Well, how so? 343 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:10,440 He began dating another woman who happened to be an ex-girlfriend of his own stepbrother 344 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,960 shortly after Cheryl disappeared. And this woman later stated that she began dating Michael 345 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:25,160 three months before Cheryl's disappearance. She also mentioned that Michael was extremely paranoid 346 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:31,320 and told her multiple times that he thought his car was being bugged. Okay. So he's definitely 347 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:37,400 got some psychological issues that he probably needs to go talk with somebody about. 348 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,840 Yeah. There you go. If you have mental health problems, folks, please go seek help. 349 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:49,400 Absolutely. Well, this girl that he was dating noticed that Michael had a bite mark on his left 350 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:55,560 arm and scratches on his back after Cheryl disappeared. A maintenance worker at the 351 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:01,800 apartment complex where the couple had lived at the time reported that he had seen Michael struggling 352 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:09,480 to dispose of two large garbage bags during this week also where Cheryl had disappeared. 353 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:15,240 I hate to guess what's in those bags. Yeah. The same neighbor who had witnessed 354 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:20,200 Michael holding Cheryl up by her throat in that underground parking garage, Beth. 355 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:27,160 Well, he had also witnessed Michael in the same parking garage with several garbage bags, 356 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:33,560 which also seems suspicious to him. Police did make a search of the complex disposal units, 357 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:41,320 but nothing came up linking this to Cheryl's disappearance. Just one day later on January 5th, 358 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:47,080 this is one day after Cheryl had disappeared, Michael mailed his mother a suicide note. 359 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:55,000 On that day, he was found in Cheryl's car with the engine running in a closed storage unit. 360 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,840 Guess who found him? Was it his new girlfriend? 361 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,360 Nope. It was the police. They actually came around looking for him because of one of those times 362 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:09,480 where Michael had said that he was going to come to a scheduled interview at the police station 363 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,360 and he didn't show up. So the police came looking for him. 364 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,480 Well, I'm glad they found him. Yeah. But he was found in time and taken 365 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,920 to the hospital for treatment. And during this hospital stay, Michael continued to refuse to 366 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:30,120 talk to police and contacted his lawyer. That's a very odd behavior, already seeking a lawyer. 367 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,320 If he's not guilty, then why would he need to seek a lawyer? 368 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:41,400 Mm hmm. Well, in all the investigation of Cheryl's disappearance lasted only about 10 days. 369 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:47,080 Police did as much as they could, but could not provide enough evidence to charge Michael Lavoie 370 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:56,200 with any crimes. Understood. So she's gone, but the curtains from the apartment are missing as well. 371 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,400 If they can't recover any of this as evidence, Beth, I can kind of understand that they're at 372 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,160 a little bit of a standstill here. Right. So I agree. 373 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:13,800 Now, as of today, Cheryl Shepard's disappearance remains an open case and holds a $50,000 reward 374 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:20,200 for information on her whereabouts. Remember now, she went missing on or around New Year's Day 375 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:29,800 of 1998. Today, she would be 52 years old. When she was last seen, Cheryl was blonde and again, 376 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:36,600 weighing somewhere around 106 pounds. She has blue eyes and a heart tattoo on her left ankle. 377 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:43,880 Now, Beth, I found a Facebook page called Help Find Cheryl Shepard, which was set up by Cheryl's 378 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:51,160 cousin in protest of a book that she and her family did not want published. A petition was 379 00:25:51,160 --> 00:26:01,400 posted on change.org, which enlisted 9311 signatures to help find Cheryl. But this site has 380 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:07,480 since been closed. And to this day, Cheryl's mother, Odette, has never stopped looking for 381 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:14,520 her daughter. She's worked tirelessly with reporters, other podcasts, and local police 382 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:21,800 to try to bring Cheryl home. Every New Year's Day, Odette lights a candle and lets it burn 383 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,200 all day in memory of her daughter, with the hopes that she will find answers to Cheryl's disappearance. 384 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:35,560 Poor mom. That would be very heartbreaking not to know where she is. And at least if 385 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:44,120 she could find remains, she would find peace. Oh, yes. Well, I tried to look up some information 386 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:50,280 on Michael Lavoie today, but I didn't really have much luck with his whereabouts because I can imagine 387 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,840 with the amount of press that was probably linked to this case, he could have changed his name 388 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:02,520 to avoid people harassing him. And in the whole scheme of things, I guess it really doesn't matter, 389 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:09,320 but I just really, really do hope that Odette can find closure one day. Yes. So to our listeners, 390 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:15,400 if you have any information on Cheryl's whereabouts, you should contact the Hamilton Police 391 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:26,120 at 905-546-3843. And I found a photo of the box that contains evidence from Cheryl's disappearance. 392 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:32,360 So if you are able to come up with information and make that contact to the Hamilton Police, 393 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:47,000 you can reference case number 98-501-950-0 with an ID number of 98-0046. Well, thank you, Debbie, 394 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,240 for bringing that to our readers' attention. Hopefully there's a lot of people listening in 395 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:59,400 around the Hamilton area and be on the lookout. Yes, absolutely. And I'll thank you, Beth, 396 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:05,880 for never calling me that name again. What name? What did you call me before we started this podcast? 397 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:15,000 Debbie. Yeah, don't do that. Did I use it? Did I do that? You did. I've been so trying so hard not 398 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:23,160 to. Even at home when I'm talking about you, I try to say Deb. It's okay. It is okay. Only those 399 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:30,840 people that know me prior to 1988 is the list of people who can call me that name. But yeah, 400 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:40,280 Deb is much, much better. Much more mature. It is. So you all, our listeners, don't call me Debbie. 401 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:46,440 I will give you the stink eye on that. So after all that, do you have a teachable moment for us? 402 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:53,240 I do have a teachable moment, Beth. This one goes out to basically the dirtbags out there, 403 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:59,480 because even you can learn something in this life. I don't know if you can actually listen 404 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:06,520 to podcasts behind bars. Probably so because there are so many different things that you have access 405 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:12,760 to these days. But listen up, regardless of why you find yourself in the situation that got you 406 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:20,840 where you are today, or why you felt that violence was the way to go, there is no reason to keep 407 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,920 information from family members who are still actively looking for their loved ones. In this 408 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:33,400 instance, Beth, I think that you and I can both agree that Michael is presumed innocent until he 409 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:39,160 can be found guilty because that's how the justice system works. Yes, I totally agree on that. We do 410 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:46,600 have to presume him innocent. Yes, but whether it's this case or a case of another missing person, 411 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:54,440 I implore you or anybody that you know to dig deep and find that compassion that you surely had 412 00:29:54,440 --> 00:30:00,520 at some point earlier in your life, and please provide people with closure. Think about your 413 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:06,360 own families. Do you think that you would want to see them go through what Odette has been going 414 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,200 through for all these years? I've seen so many cases, Beth, regardless of their actions, 415 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:18,440 criminals still hold close bonds with their own family members. So all I'm asking you to do is to 416 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,720 move past your actions and exercise a little bit of humility. And you can't change your own 417 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:30,520 circumstances, but you can help bring closure and bring missing persons home. So that's really all 418 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:36,840 I've got today, Beth. That was a very good teachable moment. Listen up folks. And that's a wrap. 419 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:43,880 That is a wrap. So thank you, Katie, for sending me this story. And thank you all for listening. 420 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,480 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 421 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:55,960 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 422 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:03,080 And also I did add a new Linktree link that takes you to all of those sites in one click. 423 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:09,000 If you like our episodes, please rate, share, and consider buying us a coffee. And be sure to 424 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:16,040 leave a comment at BuyMeACoffee.com slash Dying to be Found spelled just like you see it in our logo. 425 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:26,760 And we appreciate you being here today. We will talk to you all next Thursday. Bye.