1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,040 I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and 3 00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:14,000 crimes against animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,920 sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:33,040 Hi everyone, I'm Deb and I'm Beth and welcome back to Dying to be Found. It's just another fun-filled 6 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:39,520 day in our makeshift studios. How are you, Beth? I'm awesome. How are you? I'm really good. I'm 7 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:47,200 relaxed. I was sunbathing today. It's been a nice relaxing day. I went for a walk. The dogs appreciated 8 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:53,280 that. It was just a really good start to the day. Great. I have a question to ask you. Yeah. Do you 9 00:00:53,280 --> 00:01:01,280 consider yourself somebody who's early or somebody that is right on time? I am right on time. When I 10 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:07,680 say right on time, I mean I am sliding in on two wheels around the corner right on time. No, I'm 11 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:14,960 just, I mean I plan to get there maybe one or two, five minutes early unless I actually really have 12 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:20,960 to be somewhere and I could do the 10 minutes if I have to, but no, it's right on time. Why? Because 13 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:26,720 when I set up for my podcast, I'm sitting here for 15 minutes waiting for you almost every time 14 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:35,440 just in case you come early, but now I know you won't and you weren't here until right on the dot. 15 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:43,360 I like to be early. I work seven to three and I get up at 4 30. I only work seven minutes away 16 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:50,640 and I'm out of the house by 5 15 parked and in my office by 5 30 a.m. every day. We've had this 17 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:59,920 discussion before. My REMs don't kick in until after 4 a.m. Oh, that's right. But it still doesn't 18 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:09,200 explain why you're just sliding in. You know we were taught to be early. My kids are even that way. 19 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:15,600 I know if you're early, if you're on time, you're, wait, if you're, wait, what is it? If you're early, 20 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:23,680 you're on time. If you're on time, you're late. Right. Exactly. Duly noted. See, here's the deal. 21 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:30,800 This is what you told me in the past. You have to take 30 minutes to get your computer set up. So 22 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:38,080 when you said 2 30 today, I was ready at 1 p.m. 1 p.m. I've been looking for stuff to do until 2 30. 23 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:45,440 Oh. But I guess now that I know, okay, I will surprise you one day and I guess that'll explain 24 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,880 why you're always on before me. But I thought you needed some time to set up. I mean, I'm just 25 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:57,200 piddled. So I found shortcuts. So I'm up and running in like six minutes. Okay. I love that. 26 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:04,640 Duly noted. I will remember that when we make our next appointment. Okay. Good deal. No, 27 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:08,400 you should know that though. I'm always the, well, I guess that goes along the lines of 28 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,920 procrastination. Oh, you're terrible at that. And you know, I'm a procrastinator. Oh yes. 29 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:19,200 I usually get my cards, uh, birthday cards a month later. Yeah. You know what? I said I was 30 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:26,000 going to write down that I need to mail your card. I want to write that down. Mail it this week and 31 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:34,400 I'll get it by August. All right, you all. Well, what else is going on, Beth? Nothing much. Okay. 32 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:41,680 So are we, are we ready to get started? We're ready to rock and roll. This is a really, really 33 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,400 busy time of year for me right now. And I've got a lot of conferences that I am going to, 34 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:53,120 so I am trying to juggle as much as I can and keep this podcast going. Cause Beth, you and I, 35 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:59,360 I agree we're having a lot of fun here and we don't want it to end now. So Beth has taken the 36 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:06,160 reins again. She's got this amazing story to tell today and I can't wait because we're actually 37 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:11,280 stepping into the big leagues. Don't you think? Yes, we sure are. Deb, we're going to talk today 38 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,440 about Canadians infamous case of Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka. Have you heard of them before? 39 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:24,640 I have. And only probably since I really started listening to true crime regularly, I would say 40 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:31,280 about a year ago. So yeah, it's, it is a big story. I can understand why it's so infamous, 41 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,560 but yeah, I can't wait to hear this one. I know we just finished the three-part Elizabeth 42 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:42,000 smart case, but I found way too much information to pack this into one episode. So we're going 43 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:48,640 to do it into this, uh, this time around. Okay. Well I'm ready. Okay. In part one, 44 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,040 we're going to break things down to give our audience a glimpse of the young Bernardo and 45 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:59,760 Homolka. Right now we will start with Paul. Paul Kenneth Bernardo was born to Kenneth and Marilyn 46 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:07,360 Bernardo on August 27th, 1964. Like many other cases we hear Paul's father, Kenneth had a sexually 47 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:12,720 devious side. He was known to sexually abuse his daughter, but at one point he was also caught 48 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:19,440 fondling other girls. Kenneth was eventually charged with child molestation in 1975. I wonder 49 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:26,480 how many he fondled if he's been caught with one, how many more has he abused? Yeah, that's a good 50 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:32,720 point. Probably the only one spoke up and that's all there was that came forward. Paul's mother, 51 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,760 Marilyn was very depressed about her home life with Kenneth. So she withdrew from family life 52 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,560 and lived in the basement of their home in Scarborough, Ontario, which is a suburb of 53 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:48,720 Toronto. On weekends, she would go visit family just to get away from Kenneth and the home life. 54 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:54,160 Ashley, I wouldn't say that this is what we did, but I always remembered having a great time going 55 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,920 to visit grandma on the weekends. That was the best times of our life, wasn't it? Oh, it was. 56 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:05,120 We didn't see her often because of the great distance there was to drive, especially since 57 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:11,520 there wasn't the highway there that there is now. And yes, great time indeed. Paul Bernardo, 58 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:18,160 who will be referred to as Bernardo for the rest of the story, was a very cute boy with dimples. 59 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:25,920 Aw. Yeah. Growing up, he was always happy, well-mannered, did well in school and was even 60 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,120 a boy scout. Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I didn't know boy scouts were international. I guess I'm just 61 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,560 thinking of the Boy Scouts of America, but it's just the Scouts of America now. Oh, is it? Yeah. 62 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,920 And that kind of reminds me, do you remember being in Brownies when you were little? Oh, yes, 63 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:48,080 I had a great time. And back in 2004, I was a district commissioner for the Girl Guides of 64 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:56,000 Canada within the city I lived. Wow. Yeah. Do the Brownies still exist? Yes, they do. In fact, 65 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:01,920 they have Sparks now, which is even before a Brownie and my granddaughter is in that. 66 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:08,160 So they have Sparks and then it's a Brownie? And then it's the Girl Guide and then a Pathfinder. 67 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:14,240 And I believe there's something one step further, but I don't know what that is. Is it Girl Scout? 68 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,880 I don't know. Maybe it is. I was just wondering what the difference was between Brownie and Girl 69 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,000 Scout. All I remember was being jealous because you were in Brownies and I loved your Brownie 70 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,520 uniform because it was brown. I loved it too. In fact, I went on Etsy not too long ago. And for 71 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:36,160 those who don't know what Etsy is, it's where people sell small things, something like eBay, 72 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:43,200 but on a much smaller scale and they sell their handmade crafts. So I've been actually looking for 73 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:50,800 Brownie badges, believe it or not. Wow. Why? Nostalgic? Yes. I have a scrapbook I did on myself 74 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:57,920 and want to find some Brownie badges and I just missed out on one of them. Oh, that's so cool. 75 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:05,600 Okay. Well, I love that nostalgic collection that you have going on. That is so cool. Thanks. 76 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:13,040 Okay. So going on, as a teenager, Paul was said to have good-looking, almost angelic look to him. 77 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:20,160 He had no facial hair due to a genetic trait. He was quiet, almost shy and had an infectious laugh. 78 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:26,560 He even had a laid back personality. Although he was an infectious young boy, Bernardo had a dark 79 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:32,720 side to him. He loved to set fires and as he grew older, he developed sexual fantasies and enjoyed 80 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:39,360 humiliating women in public and beating women he dated. Oh my, he was the laid back personality 81 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:45,840 in public, but a dark side behind the scenes. Exactly. That's usually how it goes. Show the 82 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:51,520 good side to the public. There was an incident where Bernardo had an indiscretion in his pre 83 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,360 pubescent days. One day a neighbor caught Bernardo in the act of being a peeping Tom. He was at the 84 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,880 window of another neighbor and watched as a young girl got ready for bed. Seeing her naked, Bernardo 85 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:08,880 was aroused. However, the neighbor that caught Bernardo never told his mother because she simply 86 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:15,120 chalked it up to normal childhood curiosity. Oh wow. Okay. I have so many questions, but it doesn't 87 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,840 matter if it's a childhood curiosity or not. I think the neighbors probably should have said 88 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:25,280 something because I mean, again, if he's peeping in one window, you know he's peeping in more. 89 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:31,680 Mm hmm. I agree with you. All right. He's just okay. He's turning into a little creeper. Yes. 90 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:38,640 In 1981, 16 year old Bernardo had two major setbacks. First, he was told that Kenneth Bernardo 91 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:44,320 was not his biological father. After his parents got into an argument, Bernardo learned that while 92 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:52,240 having an affair, his mother got pregnant with Paul. Yikes. Yes. He was so sickened by that, 93 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:58,000 that he started to call his mom slut and whore. You pronounce that whore? If I stayed there long 94 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,840 enough, I'd be calling that whore as well? Yes. Yes, you would. Oh wow. I've been here too long. 95 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:10,240 It's time to come back. Not to be outdone, Marilyn began hitting below the belt as well and started 96 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,720 calling Paul a bastard. Okay. I was just curious to know if you're going to pronounce that one the 97 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:23,840 way I do. And you did. What was developing psychiatrists later speculated was a beginning 98 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:29,760 of Bernardo's hatred towards society and an unhealthy anger towards women in general. 99 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:36,800 Boy, we hear that a lot, don't we? Yes, we do. More so lately as we said, you know, in the news, 100 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:42,640 it's just terrible. To add to this, Bernardo often had to defend himself against other boys because 101 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:49,440 of his good looks. So they were jealous and they would beat him up? Oh my God. Once again, 102 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:55,600 the brain's not fully developed until you're 25. Look past all that people. Exactly. So he took 103 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,360 self-defense courses and began to lift weights. He became proud of the way he fooled everyone with 104 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:07,520 his appearance, but in truth, he had a very dark side to him and he was an angry young man. That 105 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,560 sounds terrible. It is. It only gets worse as we go throughout this whole first and second 106 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:19,920 part. Bernardo developed dark sexual fantasies and get this Deb, one of them was to build a virgin 107 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:27,440 farm. What? Yeah, he was going to breed virgins to rape them. Wait, how old was he? He was around 16 108 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:37,040 or 17. 16 or 17 and he wants to make a farm. Like where's he thinking he's going to put his virgins? 109 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:42,720 One, his mother lives in the basement. If he's only 16, surely he doesn't have the funding to 110 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:49,200 set up shop somewhere like a storage unit. Okay, that's bizarre. It really was. When I read that, 111 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:55,840 I thought, holy cow. Yeah. Over time, Bernardo would date for shorter periods of time and would 112 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:02,560 frequently date more than one woman at a time. Now I think that's fair enough. I do too. I don't 113 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:08,320 think you need to stay with one date or how would you know who you want to be with for the rest of 114 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,520 your life? Yeah, that's a very solid comment right there. I completely agree with you. There's 115 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:19,040 nothing wrong with him dating more than one person at a time. I'll tell you, I've dated three people 116 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:25,280 at one time when I was single and oh my gosh, two, manageable. Three, it is like a juggling act. 117 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:31,600 It would be. He committed an extensive amount of sexual assaults along the way and particularly 118 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:37,040 like to attack his victims after stalking them as they got off the bus late in the evening. 119 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:42,320 That sounds like our last case in Hawaii. Yes, a lot of stalkers. Speaking of that, 120 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:48,080 do you watch You on Netflix? No. That's about a stalker. It's called You as in Y-O-U? 121 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:55,280 I'll give it a look. So as he was 21, there are things that begin to get really hairy and I'll 122 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:01,440 list some examples of his troubles where Bernardo earned the name the Scarborough Rapist. Now I 123 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:09,360 have heard of that. I never knew until when I said I started listening to True Crime regularly 124 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:15,280 about a year ago, I did not know that he was connected with that. So that was interesting. 125 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:22,800 Yes. In fact, I never heard about it. At the time I was living out East, you don't hear the same depth 126 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:29,680 of news. So you lived a sheltered life. That's what I'm hearing. Yes. Out there with Anne of Green Gables. 127 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:36,560 It was beautiful. It was beautiful. I did come out there to see you and it was definitely very 128 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:43,760 serene. I mean, green plush grass everywhere. I mean, driving along the coast, it really was 129 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:51,840 beautiful. On May 4th, 1987, Bernardo raped a 21-year-old Scarborough woman in front of her 130 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:58,960 parents' house after Bernardo followed her home. On May 14th, 1987, he raped a 19-year-old woman in 131 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,760 the backyard of her parents' house. A couple months later, there was an attempted rape of a 132 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:10,400 15-year-old girl where Bernardo broke into a house and entered the victim's bedroom. Wow. 133 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:17,280 He was getting pretty bold then. Yeah. So his actions are beginning to elevate. Oh my. He 134 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:24,000 actually held a knife and bit the victim's ear. Wow. And when the mother entered the room and 135 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,440 screamed, he ran off. Unfortunately, a 19-year-old Anthony Hannenmaier was convicted of the assault 136 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:38,720 in 1989 and served a 16-month prison sentence, but was exonerated after Bernardo admitted to 137 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:45,280 the crime in 2006. Now that's pretty bad. Yeah. What a jerk. Okay. I know he's a criminal, 138 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:51,440 but letting somebody else take the fall. And I'm sure he's, what was that? September. So I'm sure 139 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:58,560 he's still out there doing the same thing. Yes. Around Christmas time, Bernardo raped a 17-year-old 140 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,840 girl at knife point. And it was at this point where he began to be known as a Scarborough rapist, 141 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:09,600 because no one knew who that perpetrator was. So in a four-month period, Bernardo had gotten away 142 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:16,400 with four rapes and not even been caught. Wow. On May 25th, 1988, Bernardo was almost caught by a 143 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:22,480 uniformed Metro Toronto investigator who staked out a bus shelter. Bernardo was seen in the trees 144 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:28,960 and the investigator pursued him on foot, but Bernardo got away. Well, he is one slick fella, 145 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:35,200 isn't he? He certainly is. I'm imagining him just slipping in and slipping out and being chased, but 146 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:44,240 you know, never to be found. I'm actually thinking back to some of the cases and it's so bold of him 147 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:50,400 to commit these crimes in somebody's backyards. There's got to be people at home. A neighbor 148 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,680 surely had to have heard something or even somebody inside the house. Would you not think? 149 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:01,760 Yes. And I think this is a classic example of a narcissistic behavior. He thinks he's invincible. 150 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:08,160 Oh yeah, for sure. And it could be the bystander's effect, but then again, young couples will be young 151 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:14,400 couples and unfortunately, maybe if people did hear anything, they probably just kind of chalked 152 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,720 it off as a young couple in the backyard. And that's horrible thinking, but you know, that's 153 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:24,080 always a possibility of that bystander effect. You always make me see the other side. I think 154 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:30,800 with inside the box and it's very hard for me to think outside the box. So thank you for coming up 155 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:39,120 with other ideas. Okay. On May 26, 1990, there was a turning point with a rape of a 19 year old woman. 156 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:45,520 The Scarborough rapist's next visit retained a vivid recollection of her attacker. This enabled 157 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:52,000 police to create a computer composite portrait and released it two days later. Good for her. 158 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:59,600 That's great. I'm glad she stepped forward. Me too. The image was distributed by local police 159 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:05,920 and published in Toronto and area newspapers. So in July, 1990, police received tips at the 160 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:11,440 composite drawing of the suspect resembled Paul Bernardo. And he was soon interviewed by two 161 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:20,000 police detectives. From May to September, 1990, over 130 suspects had their DNA tested to see if 162 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:26,160 they could capture the Scarborough rapist. That is a lot of people and what an expense. 163 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:32,720 It really is. And police received two additional tips that Bernardo was the person the police were 164 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:40,000 looking for. In June, 1990, one of these tips was from a bank teller and another was, get this Deb, 165 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:46,480 one of Bernardo's closest friends named Smyrnus. Oh wow. Bernardo had often talked about a sex 166 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:53,520 life with Smyrnus, even telling him he had liked rough sex. Wow. I'm so glad Smyrnus stepped up 167 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,520 and turned him in. Good for him. Exactly. So that composite really had to have been pretty exact. 168 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:07,280 Uncanning, I'm sure. But the odd thing is on November 20th, 1990, Bernardo was interviewed 169 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:16,480 by police for, get this, 35 minutes. 35 minutes. I've never heard of 35 minutes. That's unusual 170 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:22,240 because a lot of them go for hours upon hours. So just like you said a couple of minutes ago, 171 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:28,400 if he's narcissistic, then absolutely, he's probably smooth talking these fellas. 172 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:34,000 My thoughts exactly. When asked if he knew why he was being investigated for the rape, 173 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,520 Bernardo's response was that he resembled a composite drawing. Bernardo voluntarily gave 174 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:48,800 DNA sample, but it would be two years before that DNA was tested. First of all, he's quite bold to 175 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:54,320 just step and say, oh yeah, that composite looks like me. That's why you called me in. That's 176 00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:01,600 actually quite bold for him to even say that. But secondly, why did it take so long for the DNA to 177 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:07,920 get tested? Because especially if the police thought that they had the Scarborough rapist 178 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:15,440 at that point. Very true. The only thing that comes to mind for me is stupidity. On whose part? 179 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:23,120 On the police part. There's no reason. People say, I think I know who it is. You're looking for 180 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:29,760 all of these and the police are just turning their eye. Maybe because the area is so much 181 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:37,440 more populated, they didn't want to take up their time with it and thought maybe they weren't even 182 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:43,120 close to the person that it was supposed to be. Yeah, that could be true. But of course, 183 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:49,440 I'm thinking in hindsight, this is a really high profile case. I'm surprised they put it on the 184 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:56,640 back burner, but I'm sure that they had different reasons. Maybe they had a change over in 185 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,920 leadership. Maybe they had a change over in the detective's department. We'll never know at this 186 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,560 point, but that's so interesting that it got put on the back burner for so long. 187 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:14,960 Mm-hmm. So this briefly sums up Paul Bernardo's early life. So now I'm going to bring in Carla 188 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:21,680 Homolka, who Bernardo eventually married. Okay. In the meantime, Carla Leanne Homolka, 189 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:28,400 who was born to Carl and Dorothy Homolka on May 4th, 1970 in Mississauga, Ontario, 190 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:34,720 which is another suburb of Toronto. Carl was a Czechoslovakian immigrant and travel salesman, 191 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,960 and Dorothy Homolka was a Canadian geriatric clinic employee. It's important to note that Carla was 192 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:46,800 the eldest of three siblings, which we will talk about in our next episode. During her young age, 193 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:54,400 Homolka was described as well-adjusted, pretty, smart, and popular. However, she was stubborn, 194 00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:02,560 domineering, and loved to speak her mind to adults. Wow. Okay. Okay. I'm going to stop you there 195 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:09,760 because I just have to say that sounds a lot like me, probably when I was in my early adult life, 196 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,040 before I calmed down a little bit. Yeah. I like to get sassy, I think, sometimes. 197 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,400 Well, you have always been known to speak your mind, and I know it's gotten you into trouble 198 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:28,240 with mom. You've even been known to hang up on her. Oh, yeah. Without a doubt, I will hang up on 199 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:34,640 mom in a heartbeat because I learned that I don't have to listen to it. I know I wasn't like that 200 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:40,400 as a kid. Well, you were that way when you first got married, you sassy young thing, you. 201 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,800 Somebody's got to be. So, Homolka, on the other hand, was known to be a vivacious, bubbly girl, 202 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,280 and full of sunshine who loved to wear frilly dresses. Can you picture that? 203 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,360 I can because I feel like that's me now. See how things come full circle? 204 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:03,920 Yep. Dresses make me feel pretty. Let me tell you, I went to one of those facial, 205 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:09,520 you know, it's like a Tupperware party. I got me a little facial one day, and I swear to goodness, 206 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,000 I felt so pretty after that, I wore a dress to work the next day. 207 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,040 So, according to the Toronto Sun, Homolka enjoyed drawing and had a love for animals. 208 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:28,000 She was a smart student and teachers liked her. Well, you're not going to like what's coming up. 209 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:34,080 Like Bernardo, there was nothing in Homolka's outward appearance that even hinted to what was 210 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:40,400 to come. She did, however, start reading Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew Mysteries at the age of 12 211 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,680 and became obsessed with crime. So Deb, what do you think of that? We grew up reading those books 212 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:52,080 and became obsessed with crime. And my favorite cartoon was even the mysterious Scooby Doo. 213 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,760 I love Scooby Doo. And I'm pretty sure that you and I watched that one together. Yeah. I will say 214 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,920 this, I never grew up reading Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys. I know that you and Kathy loved that 215 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:10,080 series, but I always, I always read the Bobsy Twins. Have you ever read any of those books? 216 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,080 No, but now that you mention it, I do remember you reading those. 217 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,920 Yeah. I don't know why I never got into those other books. I'm surprised with how obsessed we 218 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,520 are with true crime. I should have been reading, well, the Bobsy Twins was sort of a mysterious 219 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:31,200 mystery led book. They were always solving mysteries, but I don't think they were like 220 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:38,160 crime written like Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. But I did watch Hardy Boys on TV. That was cool. 221 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:45,200 What was that guy's name? Sean. He was Sean Cassidy and Parker Stevenson. Oh, get out. Yeah. 222 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:51,920 Yeah. I love that show. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. They need to do a remake on that one. Yeah. They've 223 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:58,560 done remakes on everything else. They do. There's a Nancy Drew show on TV right now. I haven't 224 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:05,440 watched it. It's new? Well, it's a couple of years old, but I tape so many programs that I just can't 225 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:11,840 tape anymore. Understood. I know there's so many choices on streaming. I don't even have regular 226 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:17,840 TV anymore. There's no point. Well, Deb, you're going to hear about Homolka having many positive 227 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:25,360 traits, but she loved to be cruel to other children. So she's a class bully. She is. At the age of 12, 228 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:31,440 there was a time that Homolka was at a baseball field to watch a friend play ball. Homolka spotted 229 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:37,120 a girl with a birth defect. This girl had arms that were about half the normal size of a fully 230 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:44,160 developed person. Deb, I looked this up and it's a condition called focamelia, which is a rare birth 231 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:50,720 defect that shortens bones or prevents a fetus fully from developing limbs. In this instance, 232 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,960 the girl that Homolka spotted had hands that flopped against her chest. Despite her handicap, 233 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,960 this girl was having a lot of fun. Good for her. However, she heard Homolka yell, 234 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:09,680 freak, under her breath. Now I think that's horrible. That is terrible. Kids can be so cruel. 235 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,600 They can. And this girl continued to play, but abruptly left the field as Homolka kept staring 236 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,120 at her. To add injury to insult, Homolka walked up to the girl's brother and said, 237 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:28,400 your sister's a freak. Oh, shameful. Shameful. All right. The brother and Homolka got into it 238 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:34,000 with each other and soon all the ballpark onlookers, at least the kids began imitating 239 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Homolka and mocking this poor girl. Oh, that's a shame. That is really, really sad. It's saddens me. 240 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,880 Yeah. Not acceptable. Where are the parents in all of this? That's what I want to know. 241 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:53,440 Good question. Yeah. But I will tell you this. I know somebody personally, it sounds like they 242 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,120 might have that same birth defect, but it's very minimal. And I feel like sometimes they're 243 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:03,520 self-conscious of it, especially like in the summertime, if they're wearing short sleeves. 244 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:10,080 But I will tell you this, the people that I am around when I'm working, nobody, I've never heard 245 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:16,960 anybody bully. And that's a good thing because I feel like I work in an accepting environment 246 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:23,600 and that's refreshing. But what Carla has done, that is completely unacceptable. At age 14, 247 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,360 Homolka changed in appearance and attitude. During a depressive episode, she began to dress in a 248 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:35,280 non-conforming manner, cut herself and claimed false suicide attempts just for a way to seek 249 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:42,880 attention. Oh my gosh. I know. I can just picture her in that black goth. Yeah. What was this? The 250 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:50,160 mid 80s. So yeah, goth was around back then. Yes. I still see it occasionally. Eventually, 251 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,920 Homolka developed sadistic and masochistic fantasies. When she was old enough to get a 252 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:01,440 part-time job, Homolka began working in a pet store, which was perfect because she said she 253 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:08,320 loved animals. She then advanced to working as a veterinary technician. She claimed to love animals, 254 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,040 but during one incident, she threw her friend's hamster out the window and it died. 255 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:20,800 That's terrible. I know. It died 10 days later as a matter of fact. That's worse. 256 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,800 Were they friends after that? Oh, they were. They continue to be friends even though she threw her, 257 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,600 even though Carla threw her friend's hamster out the window. Yes. Did she get in trouble? 258 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:39,040 No. Okay. I'm just wondering when did parenting go wrong, but go ahead. 259 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:44,480 Sometime later, Homolka had her friend convinced to dig up that grave to see what the hamster looked 260 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:51,280 like. Isn't that gross? That is. Oh my God. Wow. Okay. I think there's probably a name for that. 261 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,080 Isn't that? I don't know, but probably there's a name for everything. You have a point. 262 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:04,000 Quick. Call up our sister. She may know. No, we can't do that. We're not telling her we're 263 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:10,480 doing this podcast. That's true. Can you believe we're at all these episodes and we still are flying 264 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:16,960 under radar? I sometimes wonder, Beth. This is how paranoid I am. I wonder if they know they're just 265 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:25,200 not saying that they know. Oh, we'd know. And you'd be hanging up on them. Yep. Again, 266 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:30,960 you have a point. Carla was hoping it would be all bloated and ucky. Okay. 267 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,960 All along, Carla's girlfriend didn't want to go along with this idea. The hamster was decomposed, 268 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,000 upsetting Homolka's friend, but Homolka was thrilled to see the dead hamster. 269 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:50,240 Oh, that's disgusting. During her teenage years, Homolka was bold and loved to mingle with the 270 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:57,040 opposite sex, experimenting with drugs and having sex. She became harsh and loved to scare her 271 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,480 friends and even became interested in the occult, often calling spirits with her friends. 272 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,080 So you did mention that she might've been a little goth. It sounds like she would be if 273 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:14,160 she was interested in the occult. Yes, very true. Have you ever heard Deb of the Ouija board? 274 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:22,960 Oh, yes, I have. I'm thinking of that movie, The Exorcist. Oh, yes. No, but I don't think 275 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,920 the Ouija board was used in that. Yes, it was. Was it not? I thought it was. 276 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:36,880 I don't think so. Maybe it was. I think that's how the Beelzebub or whoever it was got beckoned 277 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:43,600 through the Ouija board. Oh, we'll have to try to watch that if we can find anything on that. 278 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:51,520 No, thank you. I watched Candyman last night. How was it? The 2021 version. It was very interesting. 279 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,920 I mean, it was definitely updated and I don't think I've ever seen that movie before, 280 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:01,120 but that was enough for me because literally I had to take breaks because even though we can talk 281 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,600 about this all day long, it's different when you're watching a movie and see things happening. 282 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:12,240 I think that's where I'm able to separate my imagination. But yeah, it was good. 283 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,600 Well, you still can't get me in front of a mirror saying those words. 284 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:22,640 Oh gosh. No, not after watching yesterday's movie. No, thank you. No, I don't even think I ever heard 285 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:30,080 of The Candyman up until recently. And no, that's crazy. It's an old, old movie. No, I hope people 286 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,440 aren't doing that even today. I mean, that's how superstitious I am. I'd be afraid something would... 287 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,880 Uh-uh. Nope. Okay. So Ouija boards. I mean, have you ever played with one? 288 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,640 Yes. But before I tell you my story, let's give the listeners from around the world a short history 289 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,280 of the Ouija board so they understand what we're talking about. Oh yeah. Okay. That makes sense. 290 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,160 The Ouija board dates back to February 1891. Can you believe that? 291 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,920 No. Hey, wasn't that around the world's fair? I wonder if that was at the exposition. 292 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,960 Yeah, it just might've been. So it started to appear on store shelves as a mysterious 293 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,560 board that could answer question about one's past, present, and future. The mysterious board 294 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:20,000 is sold today in game aisles. I even see them in thrift stores, but don't dare buy one. Dad painted 295 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:27,920 me a beautiful nighttime scene on the back of a Ouija board. I remember that. Do you still have it? 296 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,840 I got rid of it, unfortunately. I just, after about a year or two, I just could not have it in my house, 297 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,760 but it was my very favorite painting, oil painting, as a matter of fact, that dad ever did. 298 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:45,520 I remember him doing that. Now, I mean, can I ask you, was it conjuring up bad, 299 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,560 you know how people have bad dreams and stuff? Was it conjuring bad dreams? 300 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:56,400 No, not at all. I just couldn't live with myself knowing that I had a Ouija board in the house. 301 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:02,720 Yeah, that's a shame. I mean, dad was an amazing artist and I have some of his pieces 302 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,040 and I can understand. I mean, it would be heartbreaking for me to get rid of any of them. 303 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:15,200 The flat board has letters of an alphabet arranged in semi-circles above the numbers zero through nine 304 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,720 and words yes and no in the upper left and the upper right corners with goodbye at the bottom 305 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,240 of the board. The Ouija board comes with a small teardrop-shaped piece of wood or plastic that has 306 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,280 feet on it to allow the movement of the wood. One is to put their finger on the top of the wood, 307 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:37,680 ask a question and watch as a wood piece moves from letter to letter spelling out an answer 308 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,160 or would simply go directly to one of the three words I spoke about earlier. 309 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,480 Which was what? Yes, no and goodbye? 310 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,040 Yes. 311 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,560 That's interesting that it would be goodbye. I mean, where does that come from? 312 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,280 I know. I don't, I, when I said that goodbye, I thought, well, that's weird. That's out of nowhere. 313 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,040 This interesting and mysterious board had to be proven at the patent office before it was allowed 314 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,840 to proceed. It in fact worked for the office and the patent was allowed to proceed. 315 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:10,720 Oh, okay. The thing I know about Ouija boards is can't you kind of answer it yourself and make 316 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,520 it look like the board's doing its own thing? No. 317 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,160 I have an experience which I'll tell you about and I haven't touched one since. 318 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,960 Okay. Oh my, wow. How come you never told me this? Too creepy. 319 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,800 Because I guess we didn't talk a lot when it was so expensive to talk long distance. 320 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:36,400 True. Yeah. That's long distance people. That's when people had those home phones with the long 321 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,920 cords in the wall. Yeah. Long distance was astronomically expensive. 322 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,120 It was like a dollar a minute and that was a lot of money back. 323 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:52,080 Oh yeah, for sure. When I made $3.35 an hour, a dollar a minute was too astronomical to talk 324 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,480 to my sister. But again, procrastinator, I'm sure you didn't get too many letters either. 325 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,280 No, I didn't. Thank God for technology. 326 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,640 Look at where we are now. Exactly. 327 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:08,800 In the meantime, what is your story? I'm intrigued. Well, when I was 22, a few friends and I thought 328 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,760 it would be fun to play with the Ouija board. For some reason, the board would not move when 329 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,560 I lightly placed my fingers on the teardrop. What? It was like stuck in place? 330 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,640 It would not move. I was watching the girls and they were all doing their thing and the board was 331 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:31,920 moving. It's hard to know what it feels like until the thing actually moves under your hand. 332 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,960 And for me, it wouldn't talk every time I went to touch it. 333 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,680 And so the other girls would touch it. Well, they asked why it wouldn't talk to me. 334 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:47,680 And the answer spelled out B-E-T-H. That creeped me out. 335 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,960 So they asked the questions for you? No, because when I want to put my hand on it 336 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,960 and it wouldn't move, somebody else would put their hand just lightly on top of me. 337 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:08,000 And that thing actually moved. It moved and spelled out Sarah, S-A-R-A-H and A-D-A-M. Adam. 338 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:14,240 Wow. I jumped up as quick as I could be and left the room crying. Why did I leave the room crying? 339 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:19,920 I was pregnant at the time with my first born and those were the two names I had picked out for my 340 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:26,080 baby, depending on the sex of the baby. And yes, my children's names are Sarah and Adam. So how 341 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,680 freaky is that? That's wild. You sure they weren't doing that? 342 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:35,440 I don't know. I can still envision when I touched it. And the thing did move when somebody else had 343 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:41,120 their hands on me. That's bizarre. Now I want to know what else they had to say, whoever it was. 344 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:47,040 Okay. No, but we don't want to conjure those spirits because I believe in bad spirits. And 345 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,720 I mean, that's just me. I do too. So yeah, we'll leave that one alone. I don't play with Ouija 346 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:58,640 boards anyway. I was at an impressionable age when the exorcist was out. And so yeah, there are 347 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:04,240 certain things, certain things I don't do. So in October, 1987, Homoka was having fun at a 348 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:09,200 restaurant. She and her friend looked into the hotel room for a pet store conference that they 349 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,320 were attending, but all she wanted to do was party, party, party. Yeah. But how old is she? 350 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:20,720 She was 17. I wasn't a partier back then. My gosh. Well, you were. Yeah, well I was. 351 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,480 Nothing wrong with that. Somebody has to be buttoned up to the neck, goody two shoes in the 352 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:37,600 family. And it was me. You say that so proudly. I love it. Went to a bar with my sister-in-law. 353 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:43,200 Of course, I felt so smart in my turtleneck and my outfit I was wearing. And when we left that 354 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,600 evening, she looked at me and she says, don't wear a turtleneck when we go out to a bar again. 355 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:53,040 She thought it was inappropriate for me to wear a turtleneck. Oh, to a bar. Of course I get it. But 356 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,360 I'll tell you though, I've never been a bar hopper. No, me neither. Anyway, I just like to 357 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:03,840 have a little bit of spirit in my life. And it's not the spirits that you find in a bar, nor 358 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:10,400 conjured up for the Ouija board. It's just my inner spirit. Okay. Exactly. All right. So she was 359 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,840 partying. Okay. We're going to get back to this. So Homoka was ready to party. And it was well after 360 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,280 midnight when Homoka got hungry and ordered room service. After they were told that room service 361 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:28,480 was closed for the night, the two young ladies dressed in pajamas, decided to go down to the 362 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,160 restaurant, which would change Homoka's life forever. It's going to change your life forever. Okay. 363 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,120 The two friends were busy eating when the two men walked into the restaurant. They walked right up 364 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:45,280 to Homoka and her friend. The blonde man automatically took to Homoka and teased her about wearing her 365 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:51,200 pajamas in the restaurant. Ugh. They made small talk and exchanged names. And the blonde said, 366 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:57,760 hi, I'm Paul Bernardo. The girls invited the pair to the hotel room. And within an hour, 367 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:04,320 Carla Homoka and Paul Bernardo were in bed together. Okay. Bernardo was 23 and Homoka was 368 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:12,240 just 17. Wow. I was just wondering, what is she doing in the hotel? She was there for a conference. 369 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:17,280 Oh, that's right. Okay. This was the beginning of their partnership and crime spree, which we'll 370 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:23,440 talk about in part two. What? We're done? Yes, we are. Well, no, I was going to summarize part one 371 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,480 first. Yeah, but you're leaving me hanging. You're going to leave me hanging with that? 372 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:34,160 I am because I'm just that kind of person. Okay, Beth, you're getting good at this. 373 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:43,200 In summary, folks, Paul Bernardo and Carla Homoka were a married Canadian couple who sexually 374 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:49,120 assaulted and murdered a number of teenage girls, as you will hear in part two. They were nicknamed 375 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,400 the Ken and Barbie killers because of their good looks and wealthy background. Next week, 376 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,200 we will talk about the murders. So stay tuned. Deb, do you have a teachable moment for our 377 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:07,280 listeners? Okay. So we're done. We are. I meant it. Okay. On that note, yes, I do have a teachable 378 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,960 moment. Don't wear pajamas in public. Take pride in your appearance, please. And I don't know 379 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:19,760 when society got so lazy, but the definition of pajamas, Beth, is basically clothing that is 380 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,600 suited to sleep in. So it looks like you rolled out of bed, people. I mean, you may not think it 381 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:32,800 does, but it does. It does, folks. It looks like you are not taking pride in who you are. And I 382 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:38,320 will say there was one time where I was in a period of my life where I had been laid off. So I was 383 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:44,160 without work for quite a period of time. And I got up and got ready and got dressed and put my makeup 384 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:50,080 on and Shelby walks in and says, where are you going? And I said, nowhere. Well, why are you 385 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:56,480 dressing up? Sometimes when you take a moment to look pretty, you feel pretty. And I think I 386 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,680 mentioned that earlier in this episode. So that's it. That's my teachable moment. Take pride in your 387 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,240 appearance and just make a little bit of an effort because you really will feel much better 388 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:12,480 about yourself. Love it. I think Shelby knows it drives me crazy to see people out there in public. 389 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:18,880 And you know what's worse? Yes. What's worse? Auntie Diane, when we were young, wearing curlers in her 390 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:26,240 hair with her nightgown and her fluffy slippers when we went out shopping. I completely forgot 391 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:32,320 about that. And you were so right. I was just going to say what drives me more crazy is people 392 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:39,760 in pajamas and slippers in public and curlers. I forgot about those curlers, those pink or green 393 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:47,680 spongy curlers that you would see people wear. Yeah. Wow. What a memory right there. Yes. Well, 394 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:54,720 I think if we are done, then we want to thank you for listening to our episode of Dying to Be Found. 395 00:40:54,720 --> 00:41:00,400 We would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Be sure to follow us 396 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:07,440 on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying the Number 2, the letter B found. And if you 397 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,880 like our episodes, please tell your friends and consider buying us a coffee and leave a comment 398 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:19,120 at BuyMeACoffee.com slash dying to be found spelled just the way you see it in our logo. 399 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,720 And if you have a story line you would like for us to cover, please email us at dying the number 2, 400 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:31,760 the letter B found at gmail.com or message us in Instagram. Otherwise, we will be back next Thursday. 401 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:58,800 And that's a wrap. That is a wrap. Bye.