Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started,
I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and
crimes against animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or
sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Deb and I'm Beth and welcome back to Dying to be Found. It's just another fun-filled
day in our makeshift studios. How are you, Beth? I'm awesome. How are you? I'm really good. I'm
relaxed. I was sunbathing today. It's been a nice relaxing day. I went for a walk. The dogs appreciated
that. It was just a really good start to the day. Great. I have a question to ask you. Yeah. Do you
consider yourself somebody who's early or somebody that is right on time? I am right on time. When I
say right on time, I mean I am sliding in on two wheels around the corner right on time. No, I'm
just, I mean I plan to get there maybe one or two, five minutes early unless I actually really have
to be somewhere and I could do the 10 minutes if I have to, but no, it's right on time. Why? Because
when I set up for my podcast, I'm sitting here for 15 minutes waiting for you almost every time
just in case you come early, but now I know you won't and you weren't here until right on the dot.
I like to be early. I work seven to three and I get up at 4 30. I only work seven minutes away
and I'm out of the house by 5 15 parked and in my office by 5 30 a.m. every day. We've had this
discussion before. My REMs don't kick in until after 4 a.m. Oh, that's right. But it still doesn't
explain why you're just sliding in. You know we were taught to be early. My kids are even that way.
I know if you're early, if you're on time, you're, wait, if you're, wait, what is it? If you're early,
you're on time. If you're on time, you're late. Right. Exactly. Duly noted. See, here's the deal.
This is what you told me in the past. You have to take 30 minutes to get your computer set up. So
when you said 2 30 today, I was ready at 1 p.m. 1 p.m. I've been looking for stuff to do until 2 30.
Oh. But I guess now that I know, okay, I will surprise you one day and I guess that'll explain
why you're always on before me. But I thought you needed some time to set up. I mean, I'm just
piddled. So I found shortcuts. So I'm up and running in like six minutes. Okay. I love that.
Duly noted. I will remember that when we make our next appointment. Okay. Good deal. No,
you should know that though. I'm always the, well, I guess that goes along the lines of
procrastination. Oh, you're terrible at that. And you know, I'm a procrastinator. Oh yes.
I usually get my cards, uh, birthday cards a month later. Yeah. You know what? I said I was
going to write down that I need to mail your card. I want to write that down. Mail it this week and
I'll get it by August. All right, you all. Well, what else is going on, Beth? Nothing much. Okay.
So are we, are we ready to get started? We're ready to rock and roll. This is a really, really
busy time of year for me right now. And I've got a lot of conferences that I am going to,
so I am trying to juggle as much as I can and keep this podcast going. Cause Beth, you and I,
I agree we're having a lot of fun here and we don't want it to end now. So Beth has taken the
reins again. She's got this amazing story to tell today and I can't wait because we're actually
stepping into the big leagues. Don't you think? Yes, we sure are. Deb, we're going to talk today
about Canadians infamous case of Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka. Have you heard of them before?
I have. And only probably since I really started listening to true crime regularly, I would say
about a year ago. So yeah, it's, it is a big story. I can understand why it's so infamous,
but yeah, I can't wait to hear this one. I know we just finished the three-part Elizabeth
smart case, but I found way too much information to pack this into one episode. So we're going
to do it into this, uh, this time around. Okay. Well I'm ready. Okay. In part one,
we're going to break things down to give our audience a glimpse of the young Bernardo and
Homolka. Right now we will start with Paul. Paul Kenneth Bernardo was born to Kenneth and Marilyn
Bernardo on August 27th, 1964. Like many other cases we hear Paul's father, Kenneth had a sexually
devious side. He was known to sexually abuse his daughter, but at one point he was also caught
fondling other girls. Kenneth was eventually charged with child molestation in 1975. I wonder
how many he fondled if he's been caught with one, how many more has he abused? Yeah, that's a good
point. Probably the only one spoke up and that's all there was that came forward. Paul's mother,
Marilyn was very depressed about her home life with Kenneth. So she withdrew from family life
and lived in the basement of their home in Scarborough, Ontario, which is a suburb of
Toronto. On weekends, she would go visit family just to get away from Kenneth and the home life.
Ashley, I wouldn't say that this is what we did, but I always remembered having a great time going
to visit grandma on the weekends. That was the best times of our life, wasn't it? Oh, it was.
We didn't see her often because of the great distance there was to drive, especially since
there wasn't the highway there that there is now. And yes, great time indeed. Paul Bernardo,
who will be referred to as Bernardo for the rest of the story, was a very cute boy with dimples.
Aw. Yeah. Growing up, he was always happy, well-mannered, did well in school and was even
a boy scout. Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I didn't know boy scouts were international. I guess I'm just
thinking of the Boy Scouts of America, but it's just the Scouts of America now. Oh, is it? Yeah.
And that kind of reminds me, do you remember being in Brownies when you were little? Oh, yes,
I had a great time. And back in 2004, I was a district commissioner for the Girl Guides of
Canada within the city I lived. Wow. Yeah. Do the Brownies still exist? Yes, they do. In fact,
they have Sparks now, which is even before a Brownie and my granddaughter is in that.
So they have Sparks and then it's a Brownie? And then it's the Girl Guide and then a Pathfinder.
And I believe there's something one step further, but I don't know what that is. Is it Girl Scout?
I don't know. Maybe it is. I was just wondering what the difference was between Brownie and Girl
Scout. All I remember was being jealous because you were in Brownies and I loved your Brownie
uniform because it was brown. I loved it too. In fact, I went on Etsy not too long ago. And for
those who don't know what Etsy is, it's where people sell small things, something like eBay,
but on a much smaller scale and they sell their handmade crafts. So I've been actually looking for
Brownie badges, believe it or not. Wow. Why? Nostalgic? Yes. I have a scrapbook I did on myself
and want to find some Brownie badges and I just missed out on one of them. Oh, that's so cool.
Okay. Well, I love that nostalgic collection that you have going on. That is so cool. Thanks.
Okay. So going on, as a teenager, Paul was said to have good-looking, almost angelic look to him.
He had no facial hair due to a genetic trait. He was quiet, almost shy and had an infectious laugh.
He even had a laid back personality. Although he was an infectious young boy, Bernardo had a dark
side to him. He loved to set fires and as he grew older, he developed sexual fantasies and enjoyed
humiliating women in public and beating women he dated. Oh my, he was the laid back personality
in public, but a dark side behind the scenes. Exactly. That's usually how it goes. Show the
good side to the public. There was an incident where Bernardo had an indiscretion in his pre
pubescent days. One day a neighbor caught Bernardo in the act of being a peeping Tom. He was at the
window of another neighbor and watched as a young girl got ready for bed. Seeing her naked, Bernardo
was aroused. However, the neighbor that caught Bernardo never told his mother because she simply
chalked it up to normal childhood curiosity. Oh wow. Okay. I have so many questions, but it doesn't
matter if it's a childhood curiosity or not. I think the neighbors probably should have said
something because I mean, again, if he's peeping in one window, you know he's peeping in more.
Mm hmm. I agree with you. All right. He's just okay. He's turning into a little creeper. Yes.
In 1981, 16 year old Bernardo had two major setbacks. First, he was told that Kenneth Bernardo
was not his biological father. After his parents got into an argument, Bernardo learned that while
having an affair, his mother got pregnant with Paul. Yikes. Yes. He was so sickened by that,
that he started to call his mom slut and whore. You pronounce that whore? If I stayed there long
enough, I'd be calling that whore as well? Yes. Yes, you would. Oh wow. I've been here too long.
It's time to come back. Not to be outdone, Marilyn began hitting below the belt as well and started
calling Paul a bastard. Okay. I was just curious to know if you're going to pronounce that one the
way I do. And you did. What was developing psychiatrists later speculated was a beginning
of Bernardo's hatred towards society and an unhealthy anger towards women in general.
Boy, we hear that a lot, don't we? Yes, we do. More so lately as we said, you know, in the news,
it's just terrible. To add to this, Bernardo often had to defend himself against other boys because
of his good looks. So they were jealous and they would beat him up? Oh my God. Once again,
the brain's not fully developed until you're 25. Look past all that people. Exactly. So he took
self-defense courses and began to lift weights. He became proud of the way he fooled everyone with
his appearance, but in truth, he had a very dark side to him and he was an angry young man. That
sounds terrible. It is. It only gets worse as we go throughout this whole first and second
part. Bernardo developed dark sexual fantasies and get this Deb, one of them was to build a virgin
farm. What? Yeah, he was going to breed virgins to rape them. Wait, how old was he? He was around 16
or 17. 16 or 17 and he wants to make a farm. Like where's he thinking he's going to put his virgins?
One, his mother lives in the basement. If he's only 16, surely he doesn't have the funding to
set up shop somewhere like a storage unit. Okay, that's bizarre. It really was. When I read that,
I thought, holy cow. Yeah. Over time, Bernardo would date for shorter periods of time and would
frequently date more than one woman at a time. Now I think that's fair enough. I do too. I don't
think you need to stay with one date or how would you know who you want to be with for the rest of
your life? Yeah, that's a very solid comment right there. I completely agree with you. There's
nothing wrong with him dating more than one person at a time. I'll tell you, I've dated three people
at one time when I was single and oh my gosh, two, manageable. Three, it is like a juggling act.
It would be. He committed an extensive amount of sexual assaults along the way and particularly
like to attack his victims after stalking them as they got off the bus late in the evening.
That sounds like our last case in Hawaii. Yes, a lot of stalkers. Speaking of that,
do you watch You on Netflix? No. That's about a stalker. It's called You as in Y-O-U?
I'll give it a look. So as he was 21, there are things that begin to get really hairy and I'll
list some examples of his troubles where Bernardo earned the name the Scarborough Rapist. Now I
have heard of that. I never knew until when I said I started listening to True Crime regularly
about a year ago, I did not know that he was connected with that. So that was interesting.
Yes. In fact, I never heard about it. At the time I was living out East, you don't hear the same depth
of news. So you lived a sheltered life. That's what I'm hearing. Yes. Out there with Anne of Green Gables.
It was beautiful. It was beautiful. I did come out there to see you and it was definitely very
serene. I mean, green plush grass everywhere. I mean, driving along the coast, it really was
beautiful. On May 4th, 1987, Bernardo raped a 21-year-old Scarborough woman in front of her
parents' house after Bernardo followed her home. On May 14th, 1987, he raped a 19-year-old woman in
the backyard of her parents' house. A couple months later, there was an attempted rape of a
15-year-old girl where Bernardo broke into a house and entered the victim's bedroom. Wow.
He was getting pretty bold then. Yeah. So his actions are beginning to elevate. Oh my. He
actually held a knife and bit the victim's ear. Wow. And when the mother entered the room and
screamed, he ran off. Unfortunately, a 19-year-old Anthony Hannenmaier was convicted of the assault
in 1989 and served a 16-month prison sentence, but was exonerated after Bernardo admitted to
the crime in 2006. Now that's pretty bad. Yeah. What a jerk. Okay. I know he's a criminal,
but letting somebody else take the fall. And I'm sure he's, what was that? September. So I'm sure
he's still out there doing the same thing. Yes. Around Christmas time, Bernardo raped a 17-year-old
girl at knife point. And it was at this point where he began to be known as a Scarborough rapist,
because no one knew who that perpetrator was. So in a four-month period, Bernardo had gotten away
with four rapes and not even been caught. Wow. On May 25th, 1988, Bernardo was almost caught by a
uniformed Metro Toronto investigator who staked out a bus shelter. Bernardo was seen in the trees
and the investigator pursued him on foot, but Bernardo got away. Well, he is one slick fella,
isn't he? He certainly is. I'm imagining him just slipping in and slipping out and being chased, but
you know, never to be found. I'm actually thinking back to some of the cases and it's so bold of him
to commit these crimes in somebody's backyards. There's got to be people at home. A neighbor
surely had to have heard something or even somebody inside the house. Would you not think?
Yes. And I think this is a classic example of a narcissistic behavior. He thinks he's invincible.
Oh yeah, for sure. And it could be the bystander's effect, but then again, young couples will be young
couples and unfortunately, maybe if people did hear anything, they probably just kind of chalked
it off as a young couple in the backyard. And that's horrible thinking, but you know, that's
always a possibility of that bystander effect. You always make me see the other side. I think
with inside the box and it's very hard for me to think outside the box. So thank you for coming up
with other ideas. Okay. On May 26, 1990, there was a turning point with a rape of a 19 year old woman.
The Scarborough rapist's next visit retained a vivid recollection of her attacker. This enabled
police to create a computer composite portrait and released it two days later. Good for her.
That's great. I'm glad she stepped forward. Me too. The image was distributed by local police
and published in Toronto and area newspapers. So in July, 1990, police received tips at the
composite drawing of the suspect resembled Paul Bernardo. And he was soon interviewed by two
police detectives. From May to September, 1990, over 130 suspects had their DNA tested to see if
they could capture the Scarborough rapist. That is a lot of people and what an expense.
It really is. And police received two additional tips that Bernardo was the person the police were
looking for. In June, 1990, one of these tips was from a bank teller and another was, get this Deb,
one of Bernardo's closest friends named Smyrnus. Oh wow. Bernardo had often talked about a sex
life with Smyrnus, even telling him he had liked rough sex. Wow. I'm so glad Smyrnus stepped up
and turned him in. Good for him. Exactly. So that composite really had to have been pretty exact.
Uncanning, I'm sure. But the odd thing is on November 20th, 1990, Bernardo was interviewed
by police for, get this, 35 minutes. 35 minutes. I've never heard of 35 minutes. That's unusual
because a lot of them go for hours upon hours. So just like you said a couple of minutes ago,
if he's narcissistic, then absolutely, he's probably smooth talking these fellas.
My thoughts exactly. When asked if he knew why he was being investigated for the rape,
Bernardo's response was that he resembled a composite drawing. Bernardo voluntarily gave
DNA sample, but it would be two years before that DNA was tested. First of all, he's quite bold to
just step and say, oh yeah, that composite looks like me. That's why you called me in. That's
actually quite bold for him to even say that. But secondly, why did it take so long for the DNA to
get tested? Because especially if the police thought that they had the Scarborough rapist
at that point. Very true. The only thing that comes to mind for me is stupidity. On whose part?
On the police part. There's no reason. People say, I think I know who it is. You're looking for
all of these and the police are just turning their eye. Maybe because the area is so much
more populated, they didn't want to take up their time with it and thought maybe they weren't even
close to the person that it was supposed to be. Yeah, that could be true. But of course,
I'm thinking in hindsight, this is a really high profile case. I'm surprised they put it on the
back burner, but I'm sure that they had different reasons. Maybe they had a change over in
leadership. Maybe they had a change over in the detective's department. We'll never know at this
point, but that's so interesting that it got put on the back burner for so long.
Mm-hmm. So this briefly sums up Paul Bernardo's early life. So now I'm going to bring in Carla
Homolka, who Bernardo eventually married. Okay. In the meantime, Carla Leanne Homolka,
who was born to Carl and Dorothy Homolka on May 4th, 1970 in Mississauga, Ontario,
which is another suburb of Toronto. Carl was a Czechoslovakian immigrant and travel salesman,
and Dorothy Homolka was a Canadian geriatric clinic employee. It's important to note that Carla was
the eldest of three siblings, which we will talk about in our next episode. During her young age,
Homolka was described as well-adjusted, pretty, smart, and popular. However, she was stubborn,
domineering, and loved to speak her mind to adults. Wow. Okay. Okay. I'm going to stop you there
because I just have to say that sounds a lot like me, probably when I was in my early adult life,
before I calmed down a little bit. Yeah. I like to get sassy, I think, sometimes.
Well, you have always been known to speak your mind, and I know it's gotten you into trouble
with mom. You've even been known to hang up on her. Oh, yeah. Without a doubt, I will hang up on
mom in a heartbeat because I learned that I don't have to listen to it. I know I wasn't like that
as a kid. Well, you were that way when you first got married, you sassy young thing, you.
Somebody's got to be. So, Homolka, on the other hand, was known to be a vivacious, bubbly girl,
and full of sunshine who loved to wear frilly dresses. Can you picture that?
I can because I feel like that's me now. See how things come full circle?
Yep. Dresses make me feel pretty. Let me tell you, I went to one of those facial,
you know, it's like a Tupperware party. I got me a little facial one day, and I swear to goodness,
I felt so pretty after that, I wore a dress to work the next day.
So, according to the Toronto Sun, Homolka enjoyed drawing and had a love for animals.
She was a smart student and teachers liked her. Well, you're not going to like what's coming up.
Like Bernardo, there was nothing in Homolka's outward appearance that even hinted to what was
to come. She did, however, start reading Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew Mysteries at the age of 12
and became obsessed with crime. So Deb, what do you think of that? We grew up reading those books
and became obsessed with crime. And my favorite cartoon was even the mysterious Scooby Doo.
I love Scooby Doo. And I'm pretty sure that you and I watched that one together. Yeah. I will say
this, I never grew up reading Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys. I know that you and Kathy loved that
series, but I always, I always read the Bobsy Twins. Have you ever read any of those books?
No, but now that you mention it, I do remember you reading those.
Yeah. I don't know why I never got into those other books. I'm surprised with how obsessed we
are with true crime. I should have been reading, well, the Bobsy Twins was sort of a mysterious
mystery led book. They were always solving mysteries, but I don't think they were like
crime written like Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. But I did watch Hardy Boys on TV. That was cool.
What was that guy's name? Sean. He was Sean Cassidy and Parker Stevenson. Oh, get out. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that show. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. They need to do a remake on that one. Yeah. They've
done remakes on everything else. They do. There's a Nancy Drew show on TV right now. I haven't
watched it. It's new? Well, it's a couple of years old, but I tape so many programs that I just can't
tape anymore. Understood. I know there's so many choices on streaming. I don't even have regular
TV anymore. There's no point. Well, Deb, you're going to hear about Homolka having many positive
traits, but she loved to be cruel to other children. So she's a class bully. She is. At the age of 12,
there was a time that Homolka was at a baseball field to watch a friend play ball. Homolka spotted
a girl with a birth defect. This girl had arms that were about half the normal size of a fully
developed person. Deb, I looked this up and it's a condition called focamelia, which is a rare birth
defect that shortens bones or prevents a fetus fully from developing limbs. In this instance,
the girl that Homolka spotted had hands that flopped against her chest. Despite her handicap,
this girl was having a lot of fun. Good for her. However, she heard Homolka yell,
freak, under her breath. Now I think that's horrible. That is terrible. Kids can be so cruel.
They can. And this girl continued to play, but abruptly left the field as Homolka kept staring
at her. To add injury to insult, Homolka walked up to the girl's brother and said,
your sister's a freak. Oh, shameful. Shameful. All right. The brother and Homolka got into it
with each other and soon all the ballpark onlookers, at least the kids began imitating
Homolka and mocking this poor girl. Oh, that's a shame. That is really, really sad. It's saddens me.
Yeah. Not acceptable. Where are the parents in all of this? That's what I want to know.
Good question. Yeah. But I will tell you this. I know somebody personally, it sounds like they
might have that same birth defect, but it's very minimal. And I feel like sometimes they're
self-conscious of it, especially like in the summertime, if they're wearing short sleeves.
But I will tell you this, the people that I am around when I'm working, nobody, I've never heard
anybody bully. And that's a good thing because I feel like I work in an accepting environment
and that's refreshing. But what Carla has done, that is completely unacceptable. At age 14,
Homolka changed in appearance and attitude. During a depressive episode, she began to dress in a
non-conforming manner, cut herself and claimed false suicide attempts just for a way to seek
attention. Oh my gosh. I know. I can just picture her in that black goth. Yeah. What was this? The
mid 80s. So yeah, goth was around back then. Yes. I still see it occasionally. Eventually,
Homolka developed sadistic and masochistic fantasies. When she was old enough to get a
part-time job, Homolka began working in a pet store, which was perfect because she said she
loved animals. She then advanced to working as a veterinary technician. She claimed to love animals,
but during one incident, she threw her friend's hamster out the window and it died.
That's terrible. I know. It died 10 days later as a matter of fact. That's worse.
Were they friends after that? Oh, they were. They continue to be friends even though she threw her,
even though Carla threw her friend's hamster out the window. Yes. Did she get in trouble?
No. Okay. I'm just wondering when did parenting go wrong, but go ahead.
Sometime later, Homolka had her friend convinced to dig up that grave to see what the hamster looked
like. Isn't that gross? That is. Oh my God. Wow. Okay. I think there's probably a name for that.
Isn't that? I don't know, but probably there's a name for everything. You have a point.
Quick. Call up our sister. She may know. No, we can't do that. We're not telling her we're
doing this podcast. That's true. Can you believe we're at all these episodes and we still are flying
under radar? I sometimes wonder, Beth. This is how paranoid I am. I wonder if they know they're just
not saying that they know. Oh, we'd know. And you'd be hanging up on them. Yep. Again,
you have a point. Carla was hoping it would be all bloated and ucky. Okay.
All along, Carla's girlfriend didn't want to go along with this idea. The hamster was decomposed,
upsetting Homolka's friend, but Homolka was thrilled to see the dead hamster.
Oh, that's disgusting. During her teenage years, Homolka was bold and loved to mingle with the
opposite sex, experimenting with drugs and having sex. She became harsh and loved to scare her
friends and even became interested in the occult, often calling spirits with her friends.
So you did mention that she might've been a little goth. It sounds like she would be if
she was interested in the occult. Yes, very true. Have you ever heard Deb of the Ouija board?
Oh, yes, I have. I'm thinking of that movie, The Exorcist. Oh, yes. No, but I don't think
the Ouija board was used in that. Yes, it was. Was it not? I thought it was.
I don't think so. Maybe it was. I think that's how the Beelzebub or whoever it was got beckoned
through the Ouija board. Oh, we'll have to try to watch that if we can find anything on that.
No, thank you. I watched Candyman last night. How was it? The 2021 version. It was very interesting.
I mean, it was definitely updated and I don't think I've ever seen that movie before,
but that was enough for me because literally I had to take breaks because even though we can talk
about this all day long, it's different when you're watching a movie and see things happening.
I think that's where I'm able to separate my imagination. But yeah, it was good.
Well, you still can't get me in front of a mirror saying those words.
Oh gosh. No, not after watching yesterday's movie. No, thank you. No, I don't even think I ever heard
of The Candyman up until recently. And no, that's crazy. It's an old, old movie. No, I hope people
aren't doing that even today. I mean, that's how superstitious I am. I'd be afraid something would...
Uh-uh. Nope. Okay. So Ouija boards. I mean, have you ever played with one?
Yes. But before I tell you my story, let's give the listeners from around the world a short history
of the Ouija board so they understand what we're talking about. Oh yeah. Okay. That makes sense.
The Ouija board dates back to February 1891. Can you believe that?
No. Hey, wasn't that around the world's fair? I wonder if that was at the exposition.
Yeah, it just might've been. So it started to appear on store shelves as a mysterious
board that could answer question about one's past, present, and future. The mysterious board
is sold today in game aisles. I even see them in thrift stores, but don't dare buy one. Dad painted
me a beautiful nighttime scene on the back of a Ouija board. I remember that. Do you still have it?
I got rid of it, unfortunately. I just, after about a year or two, I just could not have it in my house,
but it was my very favorite painting, oil painting, as a matter of fact, that dad ever did.
I remember him doing that. Now, I mean, can I ask you, was it conjuring up bad,
you know how people have bad dreams and stuff? Was it conjuring bad dreams?
No, not at all. I just couldn't live with myself knowing that I had a Ouija board in the house.
Yeah, that's a shame. I mean, dad was an amazing artist and I have some of his pieces
and I can understand. I mean, it would be heartbreaking for me to get rid of any of them.
The flat board has letters of an alphabet arranged in semi-circles above the numbers zero through nine
and words yes and no in the upper left and the upper right corners with goodbye at the bottom
of the board. The Ouija board comes with a small teardrop-shaped piece of wood or plastic that has
feet on it to allow the movement of the wood. One is to put their finger on the top of the wood,
ask a question and watch as a wood piece moves from letter to letter spelling out an answer
or would simply go directly to one of the three words I spoke about earlier.
Which was what? Yes, no and goodbye?
Yes.
That's interesting that it would be goodbye. I mean, where does that come from?
I know. I don't, I, when I said that goodbye, I thought, well, that's weird. That's out of nowhere.
This interesting and mysterious board had to be proven at the patent office before it was allowed
to proceed. It in fact worked for the office and the patent was allowed to proceed.
Oh, okay. The thing I know about Ouija boards is can't you kind of answer it yourself and make
it look like the board's doing its own thing? No.
I have an experience which I'll tell you about and I haven't touched one since.
Okay. Oh my, wow. How come you never told me this? Too creepy.
Because I guess we didn't talk a lot when it was so expensive to talk long distance.
True. Yeah. That's long distance people. That's when people had those home phones with the long
cords in the wall. Yeah. Long distance was astronomically expensive.
It was like a dollar a minute and that was a lot of money back.
Oh yeah, for sure. When I made $3.35 an hour, a dollar a minute was too astronomical to talk
to my sister. But again, procrastinator, I'm sure you didn't get too many letters either.
No, I didn't. Thank God for technology.
Look at where we are now. Exactly.
In the meantime, what is your story? I'm intrigued. Well, when I was 22, a few friends and I thought
it would be fun to play with the Ouija board. For some reason, the board would not move when
I lightly placed my fingers on the teardrop. What? It was like stuck in place?
It would not move. I was watching the girls and they were all doing their thing and the board was
moving. It's hard to know what it feels like until the thing actually moves under your hand.
And for me, it wouldn't talk every time I went to touch it.
And so the other girls would touch it. Well, they asked why it wouldn't talk to me.
And the answer spelled out B-E-T-H. That creeped me out.
So they asked the questions for you? No, because when I want to put my hand on it
and it wouldn't move, somebody else would put their hand just lightly on top of me.
And that thing actually moved. It moved and spelled out Sarah, S-A-R-A-H and A-D-A-M. Adam.
Wow. I jumped up as quick as I could be and left the room crying. Why did I leave the room crying?
I was pregnant at the time with my first born and those were the two names I had picked out for my
baby, depending on the sex of the baby. And yes, my children's names are Sarah and Adam. So how
freaky is that? That's wild. You sure they weren't doing that?
I don't know. I can still envision when I touched it. And the thing did move when somebody else had
their hands on me. That's bizarre. Now I want to know what else they had to say, whoever it was.
Okay. No, but we don't want to conjure those spirits because I believe in bad spirits. And
I mean, that's just me. I do too. So yeah, we'll leave that one alone. I don't play with Ouija
boards anyway. I was at an impressionable age when the exorcist was out. And so yeah, there are
certain things, certain things I don't do. So in October, 1987, Homoka was having fun at a
restaurant. She and her friend looked into the hotel room for a pet store conference that they
were attending, but all she wanted to do was party, party, party. Yeah. But how old is she?
She was 17. I wasn't a partier back then. My gosh. Well, you were. Yeah, well I was.
Nothing wrong with that. Somebody has to be buttoned up to the neck, goody two shoes in the
family. And it was me. You say that so proudly. I love it. Went to a bar with my sister-in-law.
Of course, I felt so smart in my turtleneck and my outfit I was wearing. And when we left that
evening, she looked at me and she says, don't wear a turtleneck when we go out to a bar again.
She thought it was inappropriate for me to wear a turtleneck. Oh, to a bar. Of course I get it. But
I'll tell you though, I've never been a bar hopper. No, me neither. Anyway, I just like to
have a little bit of spirit in my life. And it's not the spirits that you find in a bar, nor
conjured up for the Ouija board. It's just my inner spirit. Okay. Exactly. All right. So she was
partying. Okay. We're going to get back to this. So Homoka was ready to party. And it was well after
midnight when Homoka got hungry and ordered room service. After they were told that room service
was closed for the night, the two young ladies dressed in pajamas, decided to go down to the
restaurant, which would change Homoka's life forever. It's going to change your life forever. Okay.
The two friends were busy eating when the two men walked into the restaurant. They walked right up
to Homoka and her friend. The blonde man automatically took to Homoka and teased her about wearing her
pajamas in the restaurant. Ugh. They made small talk and exchanged names. And the blonde said,
hi, I'm Paul Bernardo. The girls invited the pair to the hotel room. And within an hour,
Carla Homoka and Paul Bernardo were in bed together. Okay. Bernardo was 23 and Homoka was
just 17. Wow. I was just wondering, what is she doing in the hotel? She was there for a conference.
Oh, that's right. Okay. This was the beginning of their partnership and crime spree, which we'll
talk about in part two. What? We're done? Yes, we are. Well, no, I was going to summarize part one
first. Yeah, but you're leaving me hanging. You're going to leave me hanging with that?
I am because I'm just that kind of person. Okay, Beth, you're getting good at this.
In summary, folks, Paul Bernardo and Carla Homoka were a married Canadian couple who sexually
assaulted and murdered a number of teenage girls, as you will hear in part two. They were nicknamed
the Ken and Barbie killers because of their good looks and wealthy background. Next week,
we will talk about the murders. So stay tuned. Deb, do you have a teachable moment for our
listeners? Okay. So we're done. We are. I meant it. Okay. On that note, yes, I do have a teachable
moment. Don't wear pajamas in public. Take pride in your appearance, please. And I don't know
when society got so lazy, but the definition of pajamas, Beth, is basically clothing that is
suited to sleep in. So it looks like you rolled out of bed, people. I mean, you may not think it
does, but it does. It does, folks. It looks like you are not taking pride in who you are. And I
will say there was one time where I was in a period of my life where I had been laid off. So I was
without work for quite a period of time. And I got up and got ready and got dressed and put my makeup
on and Shelby walks in and says, where are you going? And I said, nowhere. Well, why are you
dressing up? Sometimes when you take a moment to look pretty, you feel pretty. And I think I
mentioned that earlier in this episode. So that's it. That's my teachable moment. Take pride in your
appearance and just make a little bit of an effort because you really will feel much better
about yourself. Love it. I think Shelby knows it drives me crazy to see people out there in public.
And you know what's worse? Yes. What's worse? Auntie Diane, when we were young, wearing curlers in her
hair with her nightgown and her fluffy slippers when we went out shopping. I completely forgot
about that. And you were so right. I was just going to say what drives me more crazy is people
in pajamas and slippers in public and curlers. I forgot about those curlers, those pink or green
spongy curlers that you would see people wear. Yeah. Wow. What a memory right there. Yes. Well,
I think if we are done, then we want to thank you for listening to our episode of Dying to Be Found.
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And that's a wrap. That is a wrap. Bye.