1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 I'm Carmen. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000 And I'm Joanna. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,080 And we want to introduce you to our podcast, Live, Laugh, Murder. 4 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,640 On our podcast, I, Carmen, tell my co-host Joanna, say hey. 5 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:09,640 Hey girl. 6 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,880 I tell her a story and it is not always true crime. 7 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,680 We are true crime with a twist. 8 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:15,680 With a twist. 9 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:16,680 Like a twist. 10 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:17,680 Got it. 11 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,320 The twist here is that sometimes the stories I tell Joanna are true crime and sometimes 12 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,900 they are the plot of a creepy movie. 13 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:27,640 So listen in and join us as we tease Joanna to see if she can figure out which is which 14 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,040 because she is not the creepy movie buff or the true crime enthusiast. 15 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,040 Nope. 16 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,040 And can you figure it out as well? 17 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:34,040 Yeah. 18 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,040 So that's us. 19 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:36,040 Join us. 20 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,320 Live, Laugh, Murder podcast and we love you. 21 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,320 You won't be disappointed. 22 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,320 You won't be disappointed. 23 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:40,320 Hi everyone. 24 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,480 This is Deb from Dying to be Found. 25 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:48,160 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions 26 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:52,520 on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 27 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,320 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this 28 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,320 podcast. 29 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,680 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 30 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Hi everyone. 31 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:05,680 It's Deb. 32 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:06,920 And I'm Beth. 33 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,760 And we want to welcome you to episode number 19 of Dying to be Found. 34 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,840 We're so glad you're here today. 35 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,020 Beth and I are addressing a wide range of true crime cases. 36 00:01:18,020 --> 00:01:23,240 But if you have a story that you would like to hear, please email us at dying the number 37 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,960 two the letter B found at gmail.com. 38 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:31,840 Before we get started, Beth, we wanted to give a shout out to one of our new friends 39 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,120 in true crime. 40 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,480 We found a really good new podcast that we think our listeners will enjoy and it's called 41 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,120 Live, Laugh, Murder with Carmen and Joanna. 42 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,600 Beth, what do you think of it? 43 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,280 I think it's really cool. 44 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:50,320 And another cool thing is my son Adam actually listens to it. 45 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:51,320 That's cool. 46 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,760 So be sure to check that out. 47 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,280 And in the meantime, before we get started on our own story today, Beth, what's going 48 00:01:58,280 --> 00:01:59,280 on with you? 49 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,280 Well, I kid you not, this is going to sound like a joke, but I was in my stamp room this 50 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,760 morning and I was moving things around looking for something as always. 51 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,120 And my head hit the wreath that I have hanging on my door. 52 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,660 That particular wreath usually gets put outside in the summer, but it won't now because when 53 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,960 I banged my head out popped a cookie with teeth marks. 54 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:25,960 A cookie. 55 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:26,960 A cookie. 56 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:27,960 What kind of cookie? 57 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,160 It was just a plain, what do you think happened? 58 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,400 I think one of your kids from way back when was eating a cookie and they decided to play 59 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,960 hide and seek with it. 60 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,160 Uh, wrong. 61 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,160 No? 62 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,160 No. 63 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,040 I don't know. 64 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:49,780 What happened is I knew immediately it came from a squirrel because I live in an apartment 65 00:02:49,780 --> 00:02:54,360 on the second floor and we have a resident squirrel. 66 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,360 He sprawls himself out to sun and he doesn't even move when, when I'm a foot away from 67 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:00,360 him. 68 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,360 He's that friendly. 69 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,840 Are you telling me he's gotten into your apartment? 70 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,160 Not into the apartment. 71 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:10,440 He crawls up the bricks to get to our second floor balcony. 72 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,840 That is so cute. 73 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,440 You all know I'm one with nature. 74 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,020 That is so adorable. 75 00:03:17,020 --> 00:03:18,280 Do you have a name for him? 76 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,280 He needs a name. 77 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,160 No, I don't, but he can be a PESC. 78 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:29,920 So he must've had the cookie and put it into my wreath because it is a big wreath. 79 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:32,880 So he was probably squirreling his food away. 80 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,320 Oh my gosh. 81 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,400 The same squirrel when it was raining a couple of weeks ago, I was sitting there watching 82 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,480 TV and knitting. 83 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,340 I happened to glance out the window. 84 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:44,200 I was eye to eye level with that squirrel. 85 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,120 Oh, that is so cute. 86 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,760 Now is it one of those really, really big black squirrels? 87 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:50,760 Yes it is. 88 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,680 I think they are so beautiful. 89 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,240 We don't get those where I live. 90 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,440 Well, it sat on the top of my chair and it was looking in at me. 91 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,100 Oh, I kid you not. 92 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:02,240 He just does that when it rains. 93 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,180 I had two other people, we were all up against the glass and his nose was almost touching 94 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:08,180 the glass. 95 00:04:08,180 --> 00:04:09,760 It's like he wanted to come in. 96 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,700 Oh, poor little thing. 97 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:14,040 You should have let him in if he's that friendly. 98 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,640 No, and then he'll get into everything and then it'll turn out bad. 99 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:26,160 But in here in Canada, we often use the outdoors in the garage or our balcony as a second fridge 100 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,000 in the winter or freezer, depending on the temperatures. 101 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,560 I can't even do that anymore because I had all kinds of Christmas baking out with my 102 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,100 Tupperware containers. 103 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:37,100 And guess what? 104 00:04:37,100 --> 00:04:38,100 Oh gosh. 105 00:04:38,100 --> 00:04:39,840 It all went to the squirrel. 106 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,360 Not quite, but I had to get rid of it anyways. 107 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,000 It chewed through all my Tupperware lids. 108 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,000 Goodness. 109 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Okay. 110 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,000 He is a pest. 111 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,000 Yeah. 112 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,640 I'm sure he's cute and adorable, but I guess there is a fine line between what he's doing 113 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,140 and being a pest for sure. 114 00:04:54,140 --> 00:04:55,140 For sure. 115 00:04:55,140 --> 00:04:56,140 Oh God. 116 00:04:56,140 --> 00:04:57,760 That's such a cute story though. 117 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,320 So what do you have for us today? 118 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:00,440 Oh goodness. 119 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,200 So we're going to take a trip. 120 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,480 Where are we going today? 121 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:04,760 Have you ever been to Hawaii? 122 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:05,760 No. 123 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:06,760 Okay. 124 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:07,760 Neither have I. 125 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:08,760 What do you know about Hawaii? 126 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:09,760 Anything? 127 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,640 Well, just what I saw on Dog the Bounty Hunter. 128 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,240 I used to follow that show. 129 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,240 Me too. 130 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,440 I was going to say the same thing. 131 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,920 That and I guess Hawaii Five-O, right? 132 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:20,920 Oh yes. 133 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:21,920 Gosh. 134 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,320 You know, they have a updated version of that show. 135 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,800 I've never watched it, but I did once. 136 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:27,800 All right. 137 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:34,120 So we are going to go to Hawaii and a lot of people think that this is an excellent 138 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:40,520 vacation destination full of blue water, volcanoes, beautiful beaches. 139 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:47,340 But after this story, you'll understand that there are really some seedy areas on the island. 140 00:05:47,340 --> 00:05:53,480 And just like our last story, Beth, when I talked about the increased population in Anchorage 141 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:59,920 with the Alaskan pipeline, Hawaii was in the middle of a massive telecommunications boom 142 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:04,400 in Oahu, Hawaii between 1985 and 86. 143 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,680 So there was just an influx of people moving to the area. 144 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,480 And it was also the home to a large military base. 145 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:20,660 On top of that, Hawaii was a host to 10.5 million tourists in the mid 80s. 146 00:06:20,660 --> 00:06:22,800 So very popular destination. 147 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:23,800 Wow. 148 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,280 That's a lot. 149 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:34,040 Well, between 1985 and 1986, the state of Hawaii also encountered their first serial 150 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,000 killer who came to be known as the Honolulu Strangler. 151 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:45,120 And during this time, the strangler killed five women and some of these cases still remain 152 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,480 unsolved today. 153 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,560 Well, let me start setting up the scene of the island where several of the victims were 154 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:52,560 found. 155 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:59,640 Kehi Lagoon was a popular but secluded area of Honolulu and it is an easy access to the 156 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,920 Pacific Ocean and has several smaller islands close by. 157 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:11,040 Unfortunately, this area is where the Honolulu Strangler preferred to leave his victims, 158 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,280 likely because of how secluded it was. 159 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:19,080 I have never really taken a look at the map and how the islands are laid out. 160 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,520 I know there's just so many that you can go look at. 161 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,620 I'm going to start going through this story and then I'll start talking about who they 162 00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:30,460 believe the strangler is because believe it or not, Beth, this is an unsolved case. 163 00:07:30,460 --> 00:07:34,200 The authorities think they know who it was, but they've just never had clear evidence 164 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,200 on this. 165 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,800 With the island being so small, I'm so surprised that they have it unsolved. 166 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:41,800 I know. 167 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,560 And you're going to probably wonder the same things as me as we start talking about who 168 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,000 the suspect was. 169 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,160 I'm perplexed as to why it's still unsolved today. 170 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,480 So victim number one was Vicki Gale Purdy. 171 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,080 And Vicki was originally from North Carolina. 172 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:04,960 She was 25 years old and married for five years to a helicopter pilot and chief warrant 173 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,120 officer Beth for the United States Army. 174 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:14,800 The couple had been stationed in Hawaii for somewhere around 16 months and Vicki worked 175 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,180 at a local video rental store. 176 00:08:17,180 --> 00:08:18,720 Remember rental stores? 177 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:19,720 Yes. 178 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,660 She was known to have quite a sassy personality. 179 00:08:23,660 --> 00:08:28,680 She loved to dance and often went out to the clubs with her friends without her husband 180 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:29,680 Gary. 181 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,520 This was a pretty regular routine and Vicki was usually home somewhere around nine o'clock 182 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,520 every night. 183 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,000 So I guess he's working on the base and if he's a helicopter pilot, I'm sure that he 184 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,000 probably had some extended days away, just like most military people. 185 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,960 So she had a group of friends that she would go out with. 186 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:54,360 On May 29th, 1985, Vicki had called her friends to make plans for the evening, but never showed 187 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,880 up to where they had agreed to meet. 188 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:03,400 When Vicki did not appear at home, her husband Gary began paging her, but she never answered. 189 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,920 And the next morning her car was found abandoned at a local hotel with a fresh dent in the 190 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:15,280 side, Beth and a local cab driver had said that he had dropped her off at this area somewhere 191 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,280 around midnight. 192 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,400 I don't know where she would have been if she was being dropped off at midnight, but 193 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,640 she never showed up with her friends. 194 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:23,640 Exactly. 195 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,360 Especially since she was usually home by 9 PM every night. 196 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,360 Yeah. 197 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:33,860 And then there was really not much on the dent on the car, but I wonder too, if maybe 198 00:09:33,860 --> 00:09:35,800 she was, what do you call that? 199 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:36,920 Not sabotaged. 200 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,500 I don't know why she would have had the dent. 201 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:40,960 There was not much on that that I could find. 202 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:48,720 Well, on May 30th of 1985, Vicki was found deceased, laying in an embankment near the 203 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,280 Cahee Lagoon. 204 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:55,020 She was wearing the same yellow jumpsuit that she had worn the night before when she was 205 00:09:55,020 --> 00:09:56,720 going out with her friends. 206 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:02,840 Her hands had been tied behind her back and it was evident upon her autopsy that she had 207 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,680 been raped and strangled with a ligature. 208 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,200 Do you know what a ligature is? 209 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,880 I do, but maybe our folks listening don't. 210 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:10,880 Yeah. 211 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:16,760 So ligature could be a tie, a rope, anything that you would wrap around somebody's neck 212 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,760 to strangle them as opposed to just using your hands. 213 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:20,760 Okay. 214 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:26,480 Evidence from the autopsy showed that Vicki fought really hard with her assailant to try 215 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,320 to pull that rope away. 216 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,760 Bless her heart. 217 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,120 Yeah, absolutely. 218 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:36,320 Well, as police began their investigation, they wondered if someone had an obsession 219 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,000 with Vicki because the video store she had worked at was known to rent pornographic videos. 220 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:49,280 Well, the video store actually had a bad reputation bath of seedy characters coming in because 221 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,960 just six months earlier, two employees had been stabbed to death. 222 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,320 Now that's creepy. 223 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,240 I wouldn't think I'd want to even visit that store. 224 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:06,560 The likelihood of encountering some more seedy characters was just too much after two deaths. 225 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:12,440 She may not have been aware of it because if she was an army wife and a lot of the time 226 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,880 they just pick up jobs here and there because their husbands move so frequently, she may 227 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,280 not have known the history because she'd only been on the island for 16 months. 228 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:22,280 Good point. 229 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:28,600 Well, regardless on the police's theories on who may have had the obsession with her, 230 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:33,320 police did believe that Vicki was ambushed before she made it to her car. 231 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,320 And you know what? 232 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,320 A thought just occurred to me. 233 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,320 What? 234 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:41,440 There was a fresh dent in the car, but I could not find any information on that dent. 235 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,840 Did somebody sabotage her with another vehicle? 236 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,480 Or was it an imprint of a struggle? 237 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,040 Oh yes. 238 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:55,080 And possibly Vicki trying to ward off her assailant. 239 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:02,120 Well Gary described Vicki as street smart and was always aware of her instincts, knowing 240 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,560 who she should and should not trust. 241 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:06,360 I'm going to tell you, I have that too. 242 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:12,080 I don't know how you are, but I feel like I can read people pretty well and I definitely 243 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,240 go with my gut feelings. 244 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,880 Hopefully it turns out to be true. 245 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,040 That's good thinking. 246 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,820 And Gary also believed that there may have been more than one person involved because 247 00:12:21,820 --> 00:12:24,520 he believed that his wife was a tough cookie. 248 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:29,360 He had admitted that even one time during their marriage, she basically knocked the 249 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,440 crap out of him. 250 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,040 So yeah, sassy little personality. 251 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,040 Very. 252 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,120 And she definitely put up a fight. 253 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,480 That was unfortunate. 254 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,480 Yes. 255 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,400 Now, victim number two is Regina Sakamoto. 256 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:50,320 She was 17 years old, who was originally born in Kansas, and she was a senior in high school 257 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:55,200 and had plans to attend Hawaii Pacific University that fall. 258 00:12:55,200 --> 00:13:02,800 Regina was last heard from on January 14th of 1986 when she phoned her boyfriend at 715 259 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,240 that morning, Beth, from a phone booth to say that she had missed her bus to the high 260 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,400 school, but she had planned to catch a local transit. 261 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:16,960 Okay, Beth, I can't tell you how many times Kathy and I would ride the public transit 262 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,360 in and around the city as teenagers. 263 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:26,040 You're talking about 13, 14, 15 year olds, just free reign around the city, going to 264 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,720 the skating rink, going to the park. 265 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:34,380 If I'm familiar with that area, you just can't be too careful because as we go on, you'll 266 00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:40,040 see that this is going to be probably one of the top patterns that's happening in this 267 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:41,040 story. 268 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:46,760 So witnesses that morning stated that she had been seen at one of the bus stops waiting 269 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:52,640 for the bus, but some speculation is that she may have accepted a ride from someone. 270 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,760 Yeah, I can't imagine because of the amount of times that I have been on the public transit 271 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,040 system and you don't think anything about it. 272 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,040 No. 273 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:06,520 Regina was described by her brother as bookish, smart, and everyone's friend. 274 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:12,040 Her parents did not report her missing though, Beth, until after Regina was expected to be 275 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,400 home from school, but she never showed up. 276 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,640 Later Regina's stepfather said that there was a high population of transients taking 277 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,480 the bus system and that she would have stood out as a young Caucasian female, especially 278 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,160 if she was traveling alone. 279 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Yeah, that gives me the willies, especially knowing how many times I've done that myself. 280 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:33,640 Right. 281 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:40,160 Well, Regina had been missing for about a month when in February of 1986, she was found 282 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:47,240 by three teenagers in a drainage canal near the Kahee Lagoon, which was about one mile 283 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,240 from where Vicki Purdy had been found. 284 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,520 And it was also near the airport. 285 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,360 And that's going to be an important fact to come up in just a little bit. 286 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,140 Well, her hands were also tied behind her back with parachute cord. 287 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:05,760 And just like Vicki, Regina had also been raped and strangled. 288 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:12,080 Unlike Vicki, Regina was discovered still wearing a blue tank top and a white sweatshirt, 289 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,280 but was nude from the waist down. 290 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,680 And one of her feet was tied to a rock with an electrical cord. 291 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,000 Now that's creepy. 292 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,000 Yeah. 293 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,680 I don't know what the connection is. 294 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:22,680 No. 295 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,200 Was it trying to slow her down? 296 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,660 Was it trying to keep her in one area with the tide? 297 00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:29,880 Using your phrase, that sounds ominous. 298 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,300 Oh yes. 299 00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:38,560 The autopsy also revealed that Regina had high levels of acid phosphatase in her vagina, 300 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:44,380 which suggested that she was assaulted by a man who was unable to ejaculate due to having 301 00:15:44,380 --> 00:15:45,380 a vasectomy. 302 00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:53,280 Well, after Regina was found, the Honolulu police began treating both Regina's and Vicki's 303 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:59,960 siblings as a serial killer because the killer's MO was identical between the two women. 304 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:03,280 So we're going to move on to victim number three. 305 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,680 The third victim was 21 year old Denise Hughes from Washington state. 306 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:14,560 She also was a military wife and worked as a secretary with a telephone company because 307 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,280 again, Beth, I had told you that telecommunications was really booming during that period. 308 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,360 Oh yes. 309 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,760 So she was working with a telephone company and coworkers described Denise as always having 310 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,440 a smile on her face. 311 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:35,240 On February 1st, 1986, just two weeks after Regina was discovered, Denise was also found 312 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:43,680 by three fishermen near the Mauna Loa stream, which flows into Cahee lagoon and is also 313 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,660 close to the airport. 314 00:16:45,660 --> 00:16:48,960 I had mentioned Beth that that was a clue right there. 315 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,800 Now this is quite different, however, from the two victims because this time Denise was 316 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,680 discovered in a blue tarp wearing a blue dress. 317 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:04,280 However, just like the other two victims, Denise also had her hands tied behind her 318 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,400 back with parachute cord and was also found to be strangled. 319 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,920 Remember she was found on February 1st. 320 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:18,060 Well, on February 5th, Denise was identified through her dental records and the autopsy 321 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:23,120 could not determine if she had been raped, but it seemed likely that she had just because 322 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:26,440 the MO is very, very close to the other victims. 323 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:33,740 Well, after this third killing, police immediately set up a task force consisting of 27 police 324 00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:38,480 officers with expertise in sex crimes and homicide. 325 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:44,060 Both the FBI and the Green River task force were also called in to assist. 326 00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:46,680 Do you know anything about the Green River task force, Beth? 327 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,440 I heard of it, wasn't it to do with the Green River killings? 328 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,160 It was, yeah. 329 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:58,400 It was the task force that was set up to hunt for Gary Ridgeway, the Green River killer. 330 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,400 Okay. 331 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:06,480 It's kind of interesting how the cases that we are finding always seem to have the FBI 332 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:13,200 agent that started profiling people, the Red Baron, and now the Green River task force. 333 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800 I thought that was interesting when I was doing this research. 334 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:16,800 It is. 335 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:23,320 Well, two-way radios were set up between the public transit system and the police station 336 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,520 so that drivers could call if they saw something. 337 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,060 And remember, this was in the eighties, so there was no such thing as a cell phone back 338 00:18:31,060 --> 00:18:32,060 then. 339 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:37,480 Because the first three killings occurred near the Honolulu International Airport, police 340 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:44,080 set up a sting operation where women police officers were posing as single traveling women, 341 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,560 but nothing really came out of fruition on this and they dropped that rather quickly. 342 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:54,880 A profile of this killer was developed and here's what the task force had determined. 343 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:01,120 The killer was between age 30 and 40 years old, was Caucasian or mixed race. 344 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:06,800 He was an opportunist who attacked women when they were most vulnerable, such as when they 345 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,000 were walking to their car or waiting alone at a bus stop. 346 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,620 He drove or owned a cargo van. 347 00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:19,140 The killer was not a stalker, but likely engaged in conversation with his victims. 348 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:25,480 He must have lived near Waipahu or Sand Islands and had no criminal record. 349 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,720 He may have been experiencing relationship problems and selected his victims based on 350 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,520 chance or opportunity. 351 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:38,640 Yeah, Beth, how interesting that they come up with these profiles based on the clues 352 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:39,880 that they have. 353 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,760 It always surprises me what they can come up with for profiling. 354 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:44,760 I know. 355 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,840 And you'll see in just a little while too how accurate this is. 356 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:54,320 Unfortunately, we had another victim though and her name was Luis Medeiros. 357 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,840 Luis was 25 years old. 358 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:03,760 She was traveling alone from Oahu to Waipahu to meet her family for the reading of her 359 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,440 mother's will following her recent passing, Beth. 360 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,040 Oh, that's very sad. 361 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,040 Yes. 362 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,560 Well, Luis was considered rebellious during her teenage years and chose to go out on her 363 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,480 own as a teenager to live with friends. 364 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,640 However, she had eventually grown out of that rebellion and had a really good relationship 365 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,860 with her family. 366 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:33,480 On March 26th of 1986, she had originally taken a flight to Oahu and planned to take 367 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,600 the public transit bus system the rest of the way to her apartment. 368 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:44,360 She had told her friends these plans, but she never made it home, Beth. 369 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:52,520 On April 2nd of 1986, Luis was discovered under an overpass near construction site near the 370 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:59,320 Waikili stream, which was just 12 miles away from where Denise Hughes had been found. 371 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,480 Unfortunately, Beth, Luis was three months pregnant. 372 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,120 That's a sad case. 373 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,120 Absolutely. 374 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:12,240 Well, just like Regina Sakamoto, Luis was found nude from the waist down and her hands 375 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,200 were tied behind her back just like the others. 376 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:21,620 Unfortunately, due to her body decomposition, the medical examiner could not determine if 377 00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:23,720 she was sexually assaulted. 378 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,140 Now, we're going to move on to the last victim here. 379 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:36,360 This was Linda Pesky and Linda was 36 years old, last seen alive on April 29th of 1986. 380 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:40,700 Her roommate had reported her missing and said that Linda had failed to show up for 381 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:42,740 a work meeting that day. 382 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:50,280 By day two, Linda had not reported to work and her light blue Toyota car was found abandoned 383 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,200 near the local interstate highway. 384 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,920 Police believed that Linda had left her car after it had broken down and went to a nearby 385 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,920 bus stop to get back to her house. 386 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:08,640 However, eyewitnesses stated they had seen a car with its emergency lights flashing and 387 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,480 another cream colored car was parked beside it. 388 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:19,360 The car was American made and had very distinct black letters in the back window. 389 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:26,240 Officers by also stated that the person seen possibly assisting Linda was a medium built 390 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:32,640 Caucasian or mixed race male in his thirties or forties, which fit the profile that the 391 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:38,800 police had determined after Denise Hughes was discovered way back in February. 392 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:45,320 Beth, you had just mentioned on how accurate these profiles can be and right there that 393 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:46,800 is spot on. 394 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,320 It is uncanny. 395 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,440 Yes, there was one weird thing about this case that did not occur with the other women 396 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,440 though. 397 00:22:54,440 --> 00:23:00,600 An anonymous white male had reported to the police that a psychic had told him that Linda 398 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:06,280 could be located on Sand Island, which was a tiny island located at the entrance of the 399 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,240 Honolulu Harbor. 400 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,960 Interesting that we're talking about psychics, Beth, because again, we just talked about 401 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,280 psychics in our last episode. 402 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,840 It's always fun to hear about psychics. 403 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:23,960 Well on May 3rd of 1986, the police went to Sand Island and discovered Linda's partially 404 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,400 covered body on a dirt road with a cement block on her back. 405 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,880 That's a little different. 406 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,600 Yeah, very random. 407 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,600 Yes. 408 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:40,380 She was also found with her hands tied behind her back and unfortunately she was raped and 409 00:23:40,380 --> 00:23:43,680 strangled just like the other four victims. 410 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:51,880 And similar to Regina Sakamoto, Linda also had high levels of phosphatase around her 411 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:52,880 genitals. 412 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:59,240 So the Honolulu police were working very hard to catch whoever was killing young women in 413 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,440 this area. 414 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,200 They set up roadblocks in multiple areas around the city, but unfortunately did not get many 415 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,200 leads at one of the roadblocks though. 416 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:16,200 A driver said that they had seen a white or mixed race male driving Linda Pesky's car. 417 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,840 Another witness stated that he had seen a light colored van near that car the night 418 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,600 that it was abandoned. 419 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:29,680 At this point, Beth, the police warned women to be on high alert and to avoid any public 420 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,420 transit systems. 421 00:24:31,420 --> 00:24:32,420 For sure. 422 00:24:32,420 --> 00:24:35,600 Yeah, I would definitely at this point go in pairs if you could. 423 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,600 I don't know what to do if you're traveling by air, but definitely go in pairs. 424 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,120 So I kind of want to move on to who they think the suspect could be in this case, Beth. 425 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:51,280 And again, the profile is very spot on. 426 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:57,080 So I'm going to actually talk about who the police were feeling was the prime suspect 427 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:04,920 in this case, Beth, and you will be absolutely amazed with how accurate their profiling is. 428 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,960 The prime suspect is Howard Andrew Gay. 429 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,900 And on May 9th, 1986, police made their first arrest. 430 00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:22,160 This was 43 year old Howard Andrew Gay, a mechanic who lived in Iwa Beach and reported 431 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,000 to the police, Beth, that the psychic had told him where to find Linda. 432 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:33,520 Howard actually took police originally to Iwa Beach in an effort to be helpful. 433 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:34,520 Wow. 434 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:40,440 I know he's here sometimes where the killer likes to get in the crowd and be an observer. 435 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,440 Yeah. 436 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,960 So he thought he would be helpful to take police to the beach, but police noticed he 437 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,240 had avoided one particular area of the beach. 438 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:57,480 He originally took them to one spot, but they did not find Linda there. 439 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:04,480 The police eventually went to another area where it looked like Howard was deliberately 440 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,680 avoiding and guess what? 441 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:07,680 What? 442 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,880 That's where they found Linda Pesky's body. 443 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,800 Oh my, that sounds like he's guilty. 444 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,800 For sure. 445 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,800 I mean, that's a little sketchy. 446 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:22,800 Well, Howard's girlfriend, when she was interviewed after he was arrested, told the police that 447 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:31,040 he had an unusual fetish of bondage and specifically enjoyed tying her up with her hands tied behind 448 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,200 her back. 449 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,200 Bingo. 450 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,200 Yep. 451 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:40,680 His ex-wife told the police that anytime they got into an argument, he would leave the house 452 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:47,720 and not come back again until the morning bath, which was allegedly the same night that 453 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,360 all of these murders took place. 454 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:51,480 Wow. 455 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,360 That's just too coincidental. 456 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:54,520 Very. 457 00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:03,580 And the sightings of the cream colored van and the Caucasian or mixed race of the suspect, 458 00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:05,960 too many coincidences to me. 459 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:13,900 Well, as the police continued to investigate, they found that Howard frequented the local 460 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:15,760 sailing club. 461 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,160 Workers there felt that he had somewhat odd behaviors. 462 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:26,760 This white or mixed raced man was also said to be a regular and his MO was to talk to 463 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:32,520 Petit Brunette, many of which were the victims of this Honolulu killer. 464 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:40,280 I believe that looking at the pictures of the victims, all but one were Petit and Brunette. 465 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,320 Just too many things are adding up here. 466 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,320 Yeah. 467 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:51,280 Well, employees of the sailing club also stated that Howard had an unusual obsession with 468 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,880 one of their coworkers that fit the same description of the victims. 469 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,040 She was Petit and she was Brunette. 470 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:04,640 So this employee always went with her gut feeling and told the police that Howard often 471 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,600 stared at her and frequently offered her rides home, which she constantly refused. 472 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:16,200 And there was one report, Beth, where he had asked her if she needed a ride. 473 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:22,360 She refused, but she took another ride from another customer and Howard had gotten really 474 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,120 upset about that. 475 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:25,120 Oh yeah. 476 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,560 So she was going with her gut feeling. 477 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,240 I say always listen to that for sure. 478 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,200 Deb, I'm now really intrigued and hearing more about this Howard Andrew Gay. 479 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,200 Yeah. 480 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,160 Well, good for you because I found some more information on him and this was just great 481 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:47,680 timing because I was going to mention that Howard Gay was born on January 1st of 1943 482 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,200 and was originally from Buffalo, New York. 483 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,800 At one point he was stationed at George Air Force Base in California where he did serve 484 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,080 in the military. 485 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:04,900 He was honorably discharged in 1965 and began his career as a telephone lineman before working 486 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,740 as a mechanic in Hawaii. 487 00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:14,160 Howard was married to his college sweetheart, Rita Thompson, and with her he had two sons, 488 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,280 Justin and Jason. 489 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:23,480 However, Howard and Rita eventually divorced in 1983, just a couple years before everything 490 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,860 began happening in Hawaii. 491 00:29:26,860 --> 00:29:32,440 Howard did have a vasectomy at one point and he had no criminal record. 492 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:39,140 Working at the air freight as a mechanic at the airport, Beth, Howard likely had access 493 00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:42,500 to parachute cord. 494 00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:44,740 He drove a cream colored van. 495 00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:51,860 So when Howard was eventually arrested in connection with the killings, at one point 496 00:29:51,860 --> 00:30:00,340 during his 10 hour interrogation, Howard had taken a polygraph test that came up inconclusive. 497 00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:06,100 And we talked before on some of the questioning and the wording and the phrases on what they 498 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:07,100 use. 499 00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:09,480 So it didn't come up as deceptive. 500 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,700 It just came up as inconclusive. 501 00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:17,040 Police felt that they did not have enough evidence to arrest Howard and ended up letting 502 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,440 him go because any evidence they did collect throughout this case was circumstantial. 503 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,940 Okay, backing up here. 504 00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:25,940 Why? 505 00:30:25,940 --> 00:30:33,380 Why is it circumstantial if you have eyewitnesses and he fits that profile to a T? 506 00:30:33,380 --> 00:30:34,380 Exactly. 507 00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:39,260 There's just too many things pointing directly to him. 508 00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:42,700 So police felt that they didn't have enough evidence. 509 00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,820 They did let him go because, oh, okay. 510 00:30:45,820 --> 00:30:47,460 Well, here's another thought. 511 00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:48,460 Are you ready? 512 00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:49,980 Yes, I'm ready. 513 00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:58,260 Linda Pesky, the fifth victim here, her boss had written Howard's name down at her office 514 00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:02,460 as a prospect to conduct business with later. 515 00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:03,460 Wow. 516 00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:10,940 They directly linked Howard, Andrew Gay with one of the victims in this case before he 517 00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:17,160 reported to the police that a psychic had told him where to find her body. 518 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,820 How is that circumstantial? 519 00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:24,180 Is it because that the polygraph came back inconclusive and he never confessed? 520 00:31:24,180 --> 00:31:25,180 Could be. 521 00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:30,700 Well, two months later, a woman came to the police to say that she had witnessed the killer 522 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:36,060 and Linda Pesky together on the night of April 29th. 523 00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:42,260 Police called Howard back in and placed him in a lineup where this witness positively 524 00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:44,100 identified him. 525 00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:50,820 However, this is as far as it went because after she identified Howard Gay, she refused 526 00:31:50,820 --> 00:31:57,340 to cooperate anymore or press charges because she had said that the killer saw her on the 527 00:31:57,340 --> 00:32:02,020 same night of April 29th and she was afraid that he would come after her. 528 00:32:02,020 --> 00:32:03,500 What do you think of that? 529 00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:04,700 That's sad. 530 00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:11,100 That's really sad that she feared him because I was wondering why she wasn't coming up with... 531 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:16,620 Yeah, I don't know if they ever let all these people go or if they would immediately arrest 532 00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:18,060 them after the lineup. 533 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:20,460 I mean, wouldn't they just immediately? 534 00:32:20,460 --> 00:32:25,420 I don't know enough about the criminal justice system to know if he would have been arrested 535 00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:30,120 immediately after being identified in the lineup, but I kind of understand where she's 536 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,120 coming from. 537 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,400 You would think so because otherwise he could run and flee the country. 538 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,400 So true. 539 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,060 I never thought of that. 540 00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:40,740 I never thought about that. 541 00:32:40,740 --> 00:32:41,740 Yeah. 542 00:32:41,740 --> 00:32:42,980 And he is on the islands. 543 00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:49,340 I mean, all he has to do is a quick skip and jump over to the main continent, right? 544 00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:50,340 Yes. 545 00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:58,220 Well, the police did end up monitoring Howard for several more years, Beth, years, not just 546 00:32:58,220 --> 00:32:59,300 months. 547 00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:04,100 They could never get enough evidence in any of the cases to arrest him. 548 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:12,900 In June of 1986, so this was about a year after the last murder, Howard went to California 549 00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:17,300 to see one of his sons, Jason, graduate from high school. 550 00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:21,980 And unfortunately, I don't wish this upon my worst enemy, Beth. 551 00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:25,420 While he was visiting, Jason was killed in a car accident. 552 00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:27,580 Oh, that's very sad. 553 00:33:27,580 --> 00:33:28,580 It is. 554 00:33:28,580 --> 00:33:29,580 Unfortunate. 555 00:33:29,580 --> 00:33:30,580 Yeah. 556 00:33:30,580 --> 00:33:38,860 It was said that soon after this occurrence that Howard became a born again Christian, 557 00:33:38,860 --> 00:33:42,460 which is why these killings may have ceased. 558 00:33:42,460 --> 00:33:50,980 And Howard Andrew Gay died of kidney failure in November of 2003 at the age of 60 and was 559 00:33:50,980 --> 00:33:54,220 never charged in any of these murders. 560 00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:57,760 And that is the story of the Honolulu Killer. 561 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:58,760 The end. 562 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,540 That was very intriguing. 563 00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:05,980 What I was curious about is could they not get DNA off of phosphatase? 564 00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:07,860 That is a great question. 565 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:09,740 And today is a day and age. 566 00:34:09,740 --> 00:34:10,740 Absolutely. 567 00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:13,500 They could probably exhume his body if he was not cremated. 568 00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:20,460 I didn't find if he was buried or not, but yeah, we know obviously in 1986, they did 569 00:34:20,460 --> 00:34:24,460 not have DNA like they do today, but you're right. 570 00:34:24,460 --> 00:34:30,060 And genealogy, genealogical DNA is also another way. 571 00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:37,140 She's got other family members that I'm sure could probably see or could probably contribute 572 00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:38,140 to that. 573 00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:39,140 Yes. 574 00:34:39,140 --> 00:34:43,700 But of course, you know, I didn't find anything after the fact that he had passed away and 575 00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:45,520 I didn't look much further than that. 576 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,940 So Deb, do you have a teachable moment for us today? 577 00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:49,940 Teachable moment? 578 00:34:49,940 --> 00:34:52,020 Yes, Beth, I think I do. 579 00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:57,100 It's really going with your gut instinct and using common sense. 580 00:34:57,100 --> 00:35:04,140 I know in today's day and age, there's so many different ways to travel and just going 581 00:35:04,140 --> 00:35:05,620 with your gut instinct. 582 00:35:05,620 --> 00:35:13,100 And if you get the willy nilly's on anybody whose path you cross, go with the gut instinct. 583 00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:17,940 Tell someone, walk up to someone and pretend that like, you know them. 584 00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:19,340 Let me give you an example. 585 00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:28,380 I was downtown at a convention and I had some people with me who noticed that somebody was 586 00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:30,500 following them through a mall. 587 00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:31,780 Are you kidding me? 588 00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:33,380 I am not kidding you. 589 00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:34,380 Nope. 590 00:35:34,380 --> 00:35:41,300 And they use their instinct, which was phenomenal because they literally walked up to another 591 00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:46,380 shopper and began talking with them like they knew them. 592 00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:51,920 So anytime that you get in a situation, especially if you're by yourself, don't be afraid to 593 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,700 walk up to somebody and tell them that somebody is following me or pretend like you know them. 594 00:35:57,700 --> 00:35:59,740 They might look at you funny, but who cares? 595 00:35:59,740 --> 00:36:02,420 That could be a matter of between life and death. 596 00:36:02,420 --> 00:36:03,420 Exactly. 597 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:04,420 Yes. 598 00:36:04,420 --> 00:36:05,420 Yep. 599 00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:06,420 So there we have it. 600 00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:07,420 That's my teachable moment. 601 00:36:07,420 --> 00:36:12,980 Use your gut instinct and don't be afraid to have people look at you funny. 602 00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:13,980 And with that... 603 00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:15,420 And that's a wrap. 604 00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:17,140 That is a wrap. 605 00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:20,220 As always, we want to thank you 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