1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,760 Hey, I'm Courtney. 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,000 And I'm Amanda. 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,860 And this is a nefarious nightmare. 4 00:00:06,860 --> 00:00:09,600 We cover true crime and the paranormal. 5 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:14,540 We raise awareness about the senseless acts committed against victims. 6 00:00:14,540 --> 00:00:20,480 We won't go easy on the offenders, but show serious empathy to the victims. 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:26,240 And sometimes we dive into some weird topics outside of true crime, like the paranormal 8 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:28,400 or even conspiracy theories. 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,940 Our listeners are definitely the best, and we are their biggest fans. 10 00:00:32,940 --> 00:00:34,320 So join us. 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:35,320 Come on in. 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:36,320 All are welcome. 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,000 Let's dive into these cases. 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,580 You can find us on any podcast platform and on YouTube. 15 00:00:41,580 --> 00:00:45,000 Be sure to find us, hit subscribe, and share us with your friends. 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,880 We do have great life advice, such as don't be a Richard. 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:50,880 Yes. 18 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,360 And we're deodorant. 19 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,040 We don't want to smell you. 20 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:03,160 And all are welcome to a nefarious nightmare. 21 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,160 Hi everyone. 22 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,920 This is Deb from Dying to be Found. 23 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,640 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,360 on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 25 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,680 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this 26 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:20,880 podcast. 27 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:26,120 Under discretion is strongly advised. 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,320 Well hello everyone. 29 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:28,320 This is Deb. 30 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:29,800 And this is Beth. 31 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,960 And we want to welcome you to episode number 18 of Dying to be Found. 32 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:41,520 We work on making sure that our podcast is designed to address a wide range of true crime 33 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:42,520 cases. 34 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,400 So if you have a story you would like to hear, please email us at dying the number two, the 35 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:53,960 letter B found at gmail.com or visit us on our website at dying to be found.com. 36 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,760 Before we get started, Beth, it's good to see you as always. 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:58,760 What's new with you? 38 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,640 Well, it's good to see you too, Deb. 39 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,240 Today, Al is taking out the boat. 40 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,440 So we're going to have a summer of boating. 41 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,920 Hopefully last summer was quite cold and rainy, so we didn't get a lot of boating in, but 42 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:12,720 hopefully this year we will. 43 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:13,720 What's new with you? 44 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,040 I have been really doing a ton of procrastinating more than anything else. 45 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,440 I have a ton of things to do on my to do list. 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,720 So maybe I'll get that done in the next week or so. 47 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:23,720 Who knows? 48 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,600 Can I just say you've been a procrastinator all your life? 49 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:27,600 Of course you can. 50 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,520 We are honest with each other here. 51 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,780 That's important to do. 52 00:02:31,780 --> 00:02:34,160 My birthday cards would always come a month late. 53 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Well, okay. 54 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,160 You're right. 55 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,160 Okay. 56 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,160 I'm not going to deny that. 57 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:44,680 Look, I just sent Kathy's birthday card out and I know it's not going to get there until 58 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,600 after her birthday, but I tried. 59 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,800 At least I had it in the car for the last week. 60 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:49,960 I just didn't mail it. 61 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,200 How bad is that? 62 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,000 So you better buy my now, put a postage stamp on it. 63 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,000 Okay. 64 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,000 Julie noted. 65 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,120 Let me write that on my list of things to do because I'm actually doing that. 66 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,080 I'm writing a to do list. 67 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:03,840 I live by lists. 68 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,360 I do too, but I don't know, man. 69 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,920 If I'm not in the mood, I'm not going to do it or I don't know. 70 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,280 I have no excuse. 71 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,960 I guess I'll work on it. 72 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:21,400 In the meantime, Hey, I wanted to give a shout out to Amanda and Courtney with nefarious 73 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,400 nightmare. 74 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,080 Ooh yeah. 75 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,400 That's a new podcast that I came across. 76 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,880 I was just kind of scrolling through looking to see what was new and I'm going to say a 77 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,240 couple of months ago, I came across them and I've been really listening. 78 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,880 So I wanted to say you guys will hear at the very beginning of this episode, we had a promo 79 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:40,880 for them. 80 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,320 So if you get a chance, definitely go listen to them. 81 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,440 But in the meantime, Beth, do you have anything else to talk about before we get started? 82 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:49,440 Not at all. 83 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:50,440 Let's get started. 84 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:51,440 Okay. 85 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:56,400 I just wanted to start by saying that I think by this point, everybody knows one, I'm a 86 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:57,400 procrastinator. 87 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:58,400 All right. 88 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,400 Yes. 89 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:04,280 The second one is that I'm not really good at math, but the weird thing is I don't know 90 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:05,280 how you are, Beth. 91 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,720 How are you with math? 92 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,280 Bad, bad, bad. 93 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,960 I'm pretty bad too, but when it comes to numbers and statistics, I'm not the best. 94 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:21,000 I mean, statistics honestly stress me out, but I just do this little weird thing. 95 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,640 I look up figures, I look up data and I count things. 96 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,480 Like I count steps when I'm going up and down. 97 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,080 I don't know if you've ever done that, but that's a weird little thing that I do. 98 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Yes, I have. 99 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,080 You do? 100 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Okay. 101 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,200 So it's not completely out there. 102 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:42,760 Did you know that according to the National Crime Information Center and the World Population 103 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:49,560 Review that your chances of being murdered in Alaska are greater than any other state 104 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:50,840 in the United States? 105 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:53,440 No, it's hard to believe. 106 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,120 I wonder though if it's because it's per capita, because I know that in Canada, the population 107 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:06,000 is nowhere near the United States, but Ontario is probably the most populated province in 108 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,200 Canada. 109 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,100 So you've got Alaska that's way up there with you. 110 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:17,060 And my thoughts are that per capita, meaning population, your chances would be greater 111 00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:19,800 as opposed to where there's higher populations. 112 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:20,840 Does that make sense? 113 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:22,800 I think you're right on that one. 114 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,840 So what is my point, you ask? 115 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:25,840 What is it? 116 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,880 I'm going to take us to Alaska today. 117 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:28,880 Okay. 118 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:34,200 So today we're going to talk about Robert Christian Hansen, also known as the butcher 119 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,120 baker or the bakery killer. 120 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:37,720 Have you heard of this guy? 121 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,720 No, but I'm interested. 122 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:47,560 Well, Robert was born on February 15th of 1939 in Esterville, Iowa to Edna and Christian 123 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:48,560 Hansen. 124 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,420 Robert's father was a Danish immigrant who owned a bakery and was commonly described 125 00:05:55,420 --> 00:05:58,860 around town as the big old mean guy. 126 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:05,520 If you haven't guessed yet, Robert eventually by his nickname follows in his dad's footsteps 127 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,520 and opens his own bakery in the future. 128 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,640 That's kind of what we're going to be talking about today. 129 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:11,720 All right. 130 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,400 Hansen had what you might consider somewhat of a challenging childhood. 131 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:22,300 He was expected to work long hours at the family bakery, even at a young age. 132 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:28,240 Although he was naturally left-handed, he was forced to use his right hand, which resulted 133 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,520 in Hansen acquiring a lifelong stutter. 134 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:38,600 Beth, I feel like I was told when you were young, you were left-handed, but you were 135 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,240 made to write with your right hand. 136 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,240 Is that true? 137 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,240 Yes, it is. 138 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:51,400 We lived in Germany when dad was stationed over there and that's what the Germans wanted, 139 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:52,640 use your right hand. 140 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,640 Okay. 141 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:54,960 Well, same here. 142 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Robert Hansen was forced to use his right hand. 143 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,680 I don't know if that has anything to do with along the same lines of what you just said, 144 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:11,240 or maybe he used equipment at the bakery that was more right-hand geared. 145 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:18,360 I myself am left-handed, so I know really I live in a right-handed world and a lot of 146 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,360 machinery and even scissors, Beth. 147 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Scissors are made for right-handed people. 148 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:29,400 So not really sure why he was forced to write with his right hand, but that caused him to 149 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,400 have a lifelong stutter. 150 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:38,240 Also as an adolescent, Hansen suffered from acute acne and received a lot of ridiculing 151 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,440 from other kids his age because of it. 152 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:49,240 Between his stutter and his acne, Hansen became quite a social outcast and was painfully shy 153 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,640 because of it. 154 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,920 It doesn't sound like he's off to a good start. 155 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,160 No, unfortunately, and it gets worse. 156 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,880 Well, in high school, boys made fun of him and girls rejected him. 157 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:05,360 So Hansen did what anybody would do and pretty much became a loner after that. 158 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:11,720 And because he was socially awkward in his youth, Hansen took refuge in spending a lot 159 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,920 of time alone where he found that he enjoyed hunting. 160 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:23,480 So he became an avid game hunter and turned to hunting an archery to help channel his 161 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:29,320 rage that was building Beth and fantasizing about gaining vengeance upon the girls who 162 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,040 rejected him. 163 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:36,740 I'm curious to know why he's not thinking about vengeance upon the boys who were rejecting 164 00:08:36,740 --> 00:08:42,160 him as well socially, because if they're making fun of him just as much as the girls are, 165 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,840 I suppose maybe though it's a little bit different if you're trying to ask a girl out on a date, 166 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,400 then you're rejected a little bit different than boys will be boys. 167 00:08:51,400 --> 00:09:00,640 Well in 1957, when Hansen turned 18, he enlisted in the US Army Reserves and served for about 168 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:01,640 a year. 169 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:07,560 And following that, Hansen began working as an assistant drill instructor for a police 170 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:10,920 academy located in Pocahontas, Iowa. 171 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,520 Now Hansen married a woman that he had met at the academy about a year later. 172 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:25,120 However, by December of 1960, he had been arrested after he and another bakery employee 173 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,280 had set fire to a local school bus facility. 174 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,280 I'm not really sure. 175 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:35,840 I haven't found nothing in my notes or nothing in my research as to why he targeted a local 176 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:36,840 school bus facility. 177 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,360 Yeah, it seems kind of funny. 178 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,360 It is. 179 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:40,480 It's like really out there. 180 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:46,280 Well, Hansen's coworker eventually confessed to this crime and pinpointed the finger at 181 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,280 Hansen. 182 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,880 So he was arrested and given a three year sentence, but only served 20 months in prison 183 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,560 at the Anamosa Penitentiary. 184 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:59,880 While he was in prison, wife number one served him with divorce papers. 185 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:01,680 I never found her name. 186 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:04,040 So I'm just going to call her wife number one. 187 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:10,480 Over the next couple of years, Hansen was in and out of prison for petty theft, things 188 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:11,480 like that. 189 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,240 Now by the 1960s, Hansen had married again. 190 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:21,600 And this time he married a woman named Darla, who was a special education teacher. 191 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,200 Hansen felt that he needed a change from Iowa. 192 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,440 So he picked up and moved the family to Anchorage, Alaska. 193 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,220 This is in the mid sixties. 194 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:37,600 He and Darla ended up having two children together and became a well respected business 195 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,240 owner in his community. 196 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:46,220 He had moved his family to Alaska at the height of the Trans Alaska Oil Pipeline development. 197 00:10:46,220 --> 00:10:51,480 And he set up his bakery close to the nightlife where all the pipeline workers worked, where 198 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,280 they would go to unwind every night. 199 00:10:54,280 --> 00:11:00,200 But this is also where the drug dealers and topless dancers came and went without much 200 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,480 notice. 201 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:07,120 Hansen also broke many records in hunting and proudly displayed some of his trophies 202 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,760 on his wall in his home. 203 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,560 Have you ever gone into somebody's house, Beth, and just seen a bunch of animal heads 204 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:14,560 on the wall? 205 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:15,560 Thank goodness. 206 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:16,560 No. 207 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:17,560 Have you? 208 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:18,560 Oh, sure. 209 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:19,560 I live in the sticks, man. 210 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:21,960 They're proud of those things around here. 211 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,360 All right. 212 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:32,120 Well, Hansen couldn't seem to keep himself out of trouble and by the early to mid seventies, 213 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,760 he was again in and out of jail for assault and petty theft. 214 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,460 So we're going to talk about his history in the early seventies. 215 00:11:41,460 --> 00:11:46,540 Hansen was ordered to spend six months in prison for assault with a deadly weapon when 216 00:11:46,540 --> 00:11:50,520 he attempted to assault a housewife. 217 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:56,400 He was allowed to plea bargain while the attempted rape of a sex worker was dropped. 218 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:02,480 Hansen was ordered to a halfway house after six months in lieu of serving his full five 219 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,920 year sentence. 220 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:11,340 In 1973, Hansen was also arrested for the abduction and attempted rape of a local woman 221 00:12:11,340 --> 00:12:13,940 and then again for raping a sex worker. 222 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:19,360 This is when the judge ordered Hansen to see a psychiatrist where he was soon diagnosed 223 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,160 with bipolar disorder. 224 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:27,600 I want to say that back in the seventies, they didn't call it bipolar disorder. 225 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,760 They had a different term and if I'm not mistaken, it was called manic depression. 226 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,360 Yes, I do recall that. 227 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,160 Yeah, because I've looked that up and it just goes back to that. 228 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:45,840 So beginning in 1973, police began a heavy search for the person who was raping and murdering 229 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,880 young women in and around Anchorage, Alaska. 230 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:56,160 Well throughout the seventies and eighties, Hansen unbeknownst to the police was beginning 231 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,680 to target sex workers and exotic dancers by abducting these women and turning them loose 232 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:09,240 into the woods just north of Anchorage so that he could stalk them like wild animals. 233 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:16,000 As things progressed through the seventies, in 1976, he was again arrested for shoplifting 234 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,760 a chainsaw. 235 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,240 He was sentenced to five years but appealed to the sentence and was released free and 236 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,240 clear. 237 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:32,680 So I kind of wanted to paint a picture as to his habitual criminal record because again, 238 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:38,920 back in 1973, the police were looking for somebody who was murdering young women in 239 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,320 the area and the police didn't actually know what was him. 240 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,680 I'm going to jump ahead just a little bit. 241 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:48,360 It'll all make sense in just a little while when I put the pieces together. 242 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:56,040 But in early of 1983, so this is 10 years after the women were starting to come up missing 243 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,040 and murdered. 244 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:04,640 Well, the turning point of this case bath blew wide open when a 17 year old girl named 245 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:11,320 Cindy Paulson, a sex worker in the area was lured into Hanson's car. 246 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:17,120 He suggested that they go to a nearby park to be inconspicuous about what they were about 247 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,120 to do. 248 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:25,520 But once she was inside the car, Hanson held Cindy at gunpoint and basically kept her captive 249 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,540 to do with her what he wished. 250 00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:33,760 He basically abducted her off the streets, took her to his home and decided that he was 251 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,480 going to hold her captive. 252 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:41,320 Now being Cindy, and I like to call these people a renegade, Beth, when you've got survivors, 253 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:48,000 Cindy is definitely a renegade because after Hanson took her to his house, she began taking 254 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,120 mental notes of her surroundings, including the fact that the house that she had been 255 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,400 taken to was blue. 256 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:02,040 And once he had finished assaulting her, Hanson chained her by her neck to a beam in the basement 257 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,800 and went off to sleep. 258 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,120 Oh my. 259 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,120 Yeah. 260 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:12,720 Well, while he was asleep, Cindy continued to take those mental notes, which included 261 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,240 some of the hunting trophies and mounted taxidermy that he had on his walls. 262 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:24,100 So she's looking around, he's sleeping, he eventually wakes up Beth and he released Cindy 263 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:28,600 from that next shackle and told her to go get cleaned up in the bathroom because he 264 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,600 was going to go take her to his cabin. 265 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:37,120 Well, they drove to Merrill Field Airport where Hanson was preparing a flight because 266 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,880 he owned a little bush plane. 267 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:47,240 And as he was attempting to load her into that plane to take her to the Matanuska-Sasitna 268 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,740 Valley, somewhere around 35 miles away, Cindy made her run for it. 269 00:15:52,740 --> 00:16:00,580 So she took off, she ran half naked and barefoot while in handcuffs to a nearby road and flagged 270 00:16:00,580 --> 00:16:04,640 down Robert Yont, who was driving by at the time. 271 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:10,720 Now, Cindy asked him to take her to the Mush Inn Motel rather than the police station. 272 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,640 Not really sure why she would do that, but apparently she knew what she was doing. 273 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,500 Once the police were called, they had found out that Cindy had moved again and gone to 274 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:25,520 another motel where she was just hidden in her room and they did end up locating her, 275 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,620 but she was quite hysterical in her room. 276 00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:33,760 She was still handcuffed and barefoot, but police were able to take those handcuffs off 277 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:34,760 of her. 278 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,480 And because, Beth, the story could be a little bizarre, police didn't really know what to 279 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:46,040 think, but Cindy, in her mental notes, she was able to describe her attacker's stutter, 280 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,440 the acne scars and the car that he had, plus the blue house that he had taken her to, and 281 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,300 she was able to describe that plane at the airport. 282 00:16:55,300 --> 00:17:01,400 So that's a ton of information that she was able to tell the police in her report. 283 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,400 Sure was. 284 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,400 Yeah. 285 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:09,080 Well, the police went to Henson's home and basically walked up the door and knocked because, 286 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,900 again, he is a well-known person in the community. 287 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,760 He owns a family bakery and he greeted them with a smile. 288 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:22,080 He also was able to provide two alibis and the police checked them out. 289 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,120 Two of his friends were able to corroborate that he had spent the portions of the day 290 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:30,760 with him and the police really didn't have any more to question after that. 291 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:37,000 I will say this later on, these two friends did admit that they were lying, but in this 292 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:44,040 moment, Henson had begged his innocence, said that Cindy was trying to extort him, 293 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,960 and he just basically refused to pay her extra money. 294 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:53,720 So because of his alibis that he had provided and smooth talking and he was a respected 295 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,640 citizen in the community, the police did let him go. 296 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,760 And Cindy had to work really hard to convince the local authorities that what had happened 297 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,760 to her was real. 298 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:10,640 She was the one that was able to get away and she's trying to tell this story and unfortunately, 299 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,080 people were not believing her at the time. 300 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:20,640 Well, in October of 1983, in addition, Henson owned a small bush plane that I had mentioned 301 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,680 and he loved to go hunting. 302 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:31,240 So he had a hunting cabin in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley where several of the victims had been 303 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,280 found over that 10-year period, Beth. 304 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,680 Remember these disappearances had started back in 1973. 305 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:49,160 Well, in October of 1983, 223 shell casings were found near two victims out in the wilderness 306 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:55,640 and this was near Henson's cabin where he had his hunting cabin, you know, about 35 307 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,320 miles away from his home. 308 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:02,040 Police however, did not have any proof that it was Henson, so they went ahead and called 309 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:09,600 the FBI and this included the now retired FBI agent, John Douglas and he's the one 310 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,640 that pioneered criminal profiling, Beth. 311 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,640 Wow. 312 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,640 Yeah. 313 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,160 I don't know if you've ever seen that show called Mindhunter on Netflix. 314 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,640 I actually have it on my list to watch. 315 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,400 Yeah, I've watched maybe the first couple of episodes and it's actually pretty good 316 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,440 and I had no idea that he was the name behind this, but it's interesting that we find cases 317 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,520 that really connect with how people do forensics these days. 318 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:43,760 Yeah, so John Douglas was called in on this as a profiler and after several months of 319 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:50,400 trying to figure out who this killer was, Douglas profiled Henson unbeknownst to him. 320 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:56,200 Douglas profiled the perpetrator with the following characteristics connected to this 321 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,200 case. 322 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,520 He profiled that the suspect was around 40 years old. 323 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,000 He was a well-respected individual in his community. 324 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:12,640 He had low self-esteem, a history of being rejected by women and likely had a stutter. 325 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,600 He also shoplifted and could have been an arsonist. 326 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,400 He was an avid and experienced hunter and he likely kept souvenirs from his victims. 327 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,600 Beth, how do they get that out of this? 328 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,680 I mean, I've looked into this case and it's definitely spot on, especially what I've already 329 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,800 told you in this story, but how do they profile and come up with such accuracy? 330 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,120 Well, especially the stutter. 331 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:39,120 Yeah. 332 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:41,200 Like not too many people have that. 333 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,200 No, exactly. 334 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,200 That's interesting. 335 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,640 I'm going to have to research that just because how are they able to come up with such accurate 336 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,440 profiles is my question. 337 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,880 I've always been intrigued when we were watching Criminal Minds, how they can do that. 338 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:03,400 Well, on October 27th of 1983, search warrants were issued and police showed up at Hanson's 339 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:09,080 home and his wife Darla and his children were at home at the time that they arrived. 340 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:14,520 Darla had absolutely no clue what was happening and why the police were there. 341 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:20,480 So it seemed that Hanson led a double life for the last 10 years and she knew nothing 342 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,480 about it. 343 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:28,040 However, I will say this, throughout their marriage, Darla and her husband kept separate 344 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,760 bank accounts, which likely contributed to her being left in the dark on this. 345 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,600 I can understand that, but too though, it was a little odd back in the, I would say 346 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,840 seventies and eighties for husbands and wives not to have the same account. 347 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,480 So I'm kind of curious to know why they didn't have a joint account. 348 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,800 Yes, that is very interesting. 349 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:49,800 Yeah. 350 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:56,520 Well, after Hanson was arrested, they continued to search his home, his cabin and private 351 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,960 plane for evidence of his crimes. 352 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,800 And they eventually discovered an aviation map in the headboard of Darla's and Hanson's 353 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:05,800 bed. 354 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:12,460 Hanson had drawn an X on this map, which indicated the areas that he had killed or buried his 355 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:13,600 victims. 356 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:19,480 And there were a total of get this Beth, there were 24 X's on that map. 357 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,040 How can all those people have gone missing and nobody report them? 358 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:29,960 Well, remember now they had moved to town when the Alaskan pipeline was getting built 359 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,960 as well. 360 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:37,460 So you had a ton of workers coming in, depending on their expertise, they might have come in 361 00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:41,160 for a month or two and then left and other people came in. 362 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,520 So you always had a rotation of workers. 363 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:52,560 But then also the area where the bakery was, there was also known drug dealers, known sex 364 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,720 workers, people like that also come and go frequently. 365 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:02,240 And of course, not a whole lot of attention is being brought to the people coming and 366 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:03,240 going. 367 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,080 So I think that was a big contributor. 368 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:12,080 I don't know if Robert scoped the area out on where he wanted to put his bakery before 369 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,680 he set up shop. 370 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,280 But just given the area that he worked in, there was just a lot of transients. 371 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,120 Does that make sense? 372 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:20,120 Yes. 373 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:27,160 Based on the map, authorities were able to find additional victims in and around Acreage, 374 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:33,740 Seward and the Matanuska-Sasitna Valley areas of Alaska. 375 00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:39,600 They also found jewelry from some of his victims in his basement, which I had mentioned outlined 376 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,600 in his profile. 377 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,600 He probably kept some souvenirs. 378 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:48,620 They also found firearms hidden in the back of the attic, including the gun that Hansen 379 00:23:48,620 --> 00:23:55,820 had used when he kidnapped Cindy, plus the rifle he used on the other women at his cabin 380 00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:58,360 when he went out hunting for them. 381 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:04,800 Cindy Paulson's shoes were eventually found in Hansen's plane and she was able to identify 382 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,480 her captor based on that as well. 383 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:14,160 Police had noted that after Hansen was confronted with evidence in the case, he turned into 384 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:21,960 this little mousy, mild-mannered Bob the Baker to an angry ticked off monster. 385 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,360 Hansen screamed at the lawyers and brushed off all of his victims as bad girls. 386 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,040 That's all he would say about them. 387 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,040 They're bad girls. 388 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,040 Now, how did Robert Hansen hunt his victims? 389 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,600 I had mentioned that he had used a rifle. 390 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,040 So I was curious to know what a.223 was. 391 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,920 So when I looked up this rifle, typically the type of bullet is used for an AR-15, which 392 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,520 is commonly used for hunting. 393 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,360 And I also saw one report that he used a Ruger Mini-14 rifle. 394 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:58,480 And to me, it looked just like an average rifle that you would see people going out 395 00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,960 and hunting deer with. 396 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Well, on top of this, Hansen was also a skilled bow hunter and won several trophies for his 397 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,240 kills, which he had mounted on his walls. 398 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:16,800 Besides his hunting expeditions, Hansen admitted that one of the women had tried to run and 399 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,280 a knife was in her purse. 400 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,160 Well, he used that to stab her to death. 401 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,960 Oh, that's tragic. 402 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,960 Yeah. 403 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:31,480 Well, Hansen originally targeted sex workers and exotic dancers in the area, like I said, 404 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:38,280 where he lived, because the shop was located very close to where the sex workers were at 405 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,520 during the day. 406 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,120 He was also a baker. 407 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,360 I don't know if you know anything about baker's hours. 408 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,240 What time do they work, Beth? 409 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,960 Night round, I think. 410 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,960 Yep. 411 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,120 Night round into the early mornings, right? 412 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:53,120 Exactly. 413 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,120 Yes. 414 00:25:54,120 --> 00:26:00,480 So as they are still working their shift, or at least finishing it up, Robert Hansen 415 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,080 comes into work to open up his bakery. 416 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,600 That's perfect timing. 417 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:11,580 So he would go around looking for sex workers, luring them into his car, and then he would 418 00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:16,540 kidnap them at gunpoint, just like he did with Cindy Paulson. 419 00:26:16,540 --> 00:26:23,160 If the sex worker complied, he would rape them and simply put them back in town and 420 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,920 threaten them to secrecy. 421 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:34,120 For those women who did not comply and resisted, he would fly them out to his cabin in Matanuska, 422 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:41,240 Sassitna Valley, then set them loose by the Nick River and begin his hunt. 423 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,640 That's terrifying, because you imagine. 424 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,200 That's gross. 425 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,200 That's awful. 426 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,720 Well, what do you, do you know any hunters? 427 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,200 Yes, I do. 428 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,240 Do they ever talk about what they do all day? 429 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,800 They sit very quietly. 430 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:54,800 Yes. 431 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:01,420 They can sit in silence for hours, just waiting, just watching and looking for their prey. 432 00:27:01,420 --> 00:27:02,980 So this is what Hansen would do. 433 00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:09,600 He could spend hours in the woods, very quietly, waiting, watching, listening. 434 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:16,440 And in the meantime, when he set the women loose, he took his time and tracked them, 435 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,240 basically hunting them like wild animals. 436 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,420 He was not in a hurry, because he's an accomplished hunter. 437 00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:23,540 He's won trophies. 438 00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:26,380 He knows how long it can take. 439 00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:33,280 So obviously he was not in any hurry to end the hunt, if that makes sense. 440 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:39,220 Sometimes it could take a couple hours to find them, and sometimes a couple days. 441 00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:46,760 On February 27th of 1984, Hansen was eventually charged with four murders, along with the 442 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:54,880 kidnapping and rape of Cindy Paulson, and received a 461 year life sentence without 443 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,720 the possibility of parole. 444 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,280 He was originally sent to federal prison in Pennsylvania, but didn't get along with the 445 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,480 inmates. 446 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,920 So was sent to Minnesota before going back to Alaska. 447 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,160 And what do you think he went to Pennsylvania, do you ask? 448 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,080 Why was he sent to Pennsylvania? 449 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:20,680 Well, because he was afraid that he would run into inmates who knew his victims. 450 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,440 Because again, the population is very small in Alaska. 451 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:30,000 So his thoughts were, I'm going to run into an inmate whose girlfriend was out there that 452 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000 I hunted. 453 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:38,320 Well, in 1990, once he returned to Alaska, he was originally sent to the Lemon Creek 454 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:46,100 Correctional Facility in Juneau, Alaska, until Beth guards discovered escape plan drawings 455 00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:48,080 amongst his possessions. 456 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:54,760 They discovered an aeronautical chart, a hand knitted winter hat, magazine articles on how 457 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:02,540 to make plastic explosives, and some correspondence letters to a Juneau, Alaska boat broker. 458 00:29:02,540 --> 00:29:06,280 So obviously he was setting up to escape, right? 459 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,160 Oh, it sounds like it. 460 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,160 Yeah. 461 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:15,440 Well, he was then sent to serve out his sentence in Spring Creek Correctional Center in Seward, 462 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,280 Alaska, until he died in 2014. 463 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,720 He was 75 years old. 464 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:29,320 Now one of the Alaska State Troopers who had helped capture Hanson in 1984, said after 465 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,080 Hanson's death that this world is a better place without him, and went on to say that 466 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,680 we should only remember his victims and their families. 467 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,400 In a nutshell, Beth, more than 30 women were raped and sexually assaulted, and at least 468 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,480 17 women were killed. 469 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:51,680 Authorities suspected more, but Hanson accepted a plea bargain to say he would only be charged 470 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,960 with the 17 deaths if he assisted police in locating their bodies. 471 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,200 To this day, five of the bodies have yet to be discovered. 472 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,800 I want to spend a couple minutes on giving you the names of the victims because they 473 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,360 had families too. 474 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:14,440 They're in my opinion, Beth, they were somebody's daughter, sister, aunt, and maybe even a grandmother. 475 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,480 So I'm going to link these names in our show notes so that you can take a look at this, 476 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,560 but I do want to acknowledge that each woman here was a real person. 477 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,000 Celia Beth Van Zenten was age 17. 478 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,960 She would have been marked on Hanson's map with one of the X's. 479 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,960 Megan Emerick, age 17, also marked with an X on the map. 480 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,960 Mary Kathleen Thill, age 22, marked with the X on the map. 481 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,680 An unidentified female between the age of 16 and 25. 482 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,640 The authorities named her Eklutna Annie after the road where she was found. 483 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,680 And she was a victim who Hanson had said that she had the knife in her purse and tried to 484 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:58,680 run. 485 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,440 So Annie was a 20 something year old brunette who was found by an electrician who was out 486 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,800 repairing a power line outside of Eagle River. 487 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:14,040 And Hanson also could not or would not identify her because he said he never learned her real 488 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,120 name so we don't really know who that person is. 489 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Joanna Messina, age 24. 490 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,280 Roxanne Eastland, age 24. 491 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,360 One of the five victims still missing today. 492 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Lisa Futrell, age 41. 493 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,920 Sherry Morrow, age 23. 494 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,820 Andrea Fish Altieri, age 22. 495 00:31:35,820 --> 00:31:38,400 And she's the second victim still missing today. 496 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,840 Sue Luna, age 23. 497 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,400 Robin Pelkey, age 19. 498 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,320 Beth, this is one of his victims that was originally named Horseshoe Harriet but she 499 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:54,800 was just identified in October of 2021 through DNA and genealogy testing. 500 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,760 It's amazing what they can do. 501 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:57,760 I know. 502 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,080 Delin Sugar Frey, age 20. 503 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,720 Paula Golding, age 21. 504 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,600 Malai Larson, age 25. 505 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800 Teresa Watson, age 22. 506 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,720 Angela Federn, age 24. 507 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,160 Tamara Tammy Peterson, age 20. 508 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:22,880 So there is the list of the 17 people that Hanson confessed to. 509 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,280 Deb, I'm very glad that you brought all their names because they are certainly everybody's 510 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,760 family, mother, et cetera. 511 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,760 Yeah, absolutely. 512 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,480 Well, we need to remember the victims. 513 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,480 We do. 514 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,080 And I think that's one of the things that I really communicate with this podcast is 515 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,840 that we do try to do justice for the families. 516 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,320 I know that we can't do a ton just by talking about these stories. 517 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,720 But again, yes, these are people's family members, so they need to be remembered. 518 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:59,080 Well, nobody really is sure on what happened to Cindy Paulson, but bravo, Cindy. 519 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,720 You are a renegade. 520 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,180 We appreciate you. 521 00:33:02,180 --> 00:33:07,600 You have got guts and thank you for being a survivor and getting out there and telling 522 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,600 your story. 523 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:15,320 Well, she was originally placed in a safe house before Hanson was arrested because obviously 524 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,040 nobody wanted him to come after her. 525 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,840 And she eventually left Anchorage for a short period of time. 526 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,400 And some reports also say that she had returned to sex work. 527 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:31,920 But the last that anybody has heard or believes is that she has returned to Alaska and lives 528 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,000 with her husband and children today. 529 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,800 So that's kind of the story of Robert Hanson, the butcher baker. 530 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:45,200 Now I did want to mention, Beth, that there is a movie out there with John Cusack and 531 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,500 it was made in 2013 called The Frozen Ground. 532 00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:53,800 And I do remember watching this years ago before I even looked up this case, but it's 533 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,260 a really good movie and I'm not sure where you can find it. 534 00:33:57,260 --> 00:33:58,680 It might be on Netflix. 535 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,500 It might be on Amazon Prime. 536 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:04,240 It's one of those two because those are the two streaming companies that I use. 537 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,800 But that's a really, really good movie if you've not watched that yet. 538 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,480 It's called Frozen Ground. 539 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,640 That's where I first heard of this case and that's the story of the butcher baker. 540 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,760 Well, I'm copying down Frozen Ground so that I can go look at it. 541 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,920 I've been taking a lot of notes. 542 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,340 Oh, okay. 543 00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:26,040 Thank you for bringing that story forward to us, Deb. 544 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,040 Yeah, you're welcome. 545 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,240 Deb, do you have any teachable moment for us? 546 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:31,240 Teachable moment. 547 00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:38,760 Beth, we cover a lot of cases and all I can say is you've got to fight. 548 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,200 Just fight to the end. 549 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,280 Fight for every chance you get. 550 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:48,640 Cindy Paulson is a great example on what it takes to get out of that situation. 551 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:55,240 Nobody knows if and when that will ever happen, but never let somebody get you to point B. 552 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:59,680 And Cindy did a great job of showing us that it can be done. 553 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,440 Just fight with all your might and that's all I got to say. 554 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,960 Okay then, I guess that's a wrap. 555 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,000 That is a wrap. 556 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,960 So thanks for listening today, everyone. 557 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,200 We appreciate you taking the time with us and before we go, we'd love for you to leave 558 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,600 a review on your favorite podcast platform. 559 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,780 If you like what you hear, consider buying us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash dying 560 00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:29,660 to be found spelled just like you see on our logo and feel free to leave us a comment on 561 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:32,400 that page so that we know what we can do better. 562 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,840 If you have a story that you would like for us to cover, please visit our website at dying 563 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:42,740 to be found.com spelled just like you see on our logo or email us at dying the number 564 00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:46,280 to the letter B found at gmail.com. 565 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,760 Other than that, please visit us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Pinterest and we will 566 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:52,760 talk to you next week. 567 00:35:52,760 --> 00:36:01,840 Thanks for listening.