Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that
episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everybody, this is Deb and I'm Beth.
And we want to welcome you to episode number 17 of Dying to be Found. We are so glad you are
joining us today. Before we get started, gonna check in with Beth. How are you doing, Beth? What's
going on in your neck of the woods? Not too much today. I just worked on some cards and
Christmas cards, I might add. Wow, you are too organized for me, but that's awesome. That's a
good deal. So what's going on with you? Well, I wanted to just kind of check in and let you know
what some of the things are that I'm looking at. I was looking at our stats and I wanted to just
put out a big thank you to some of the hot spots that I'm seeing lighting up our maps and a big
hello to everybody in the UK, Beth. Oh, we have taken over North America, but we are already over
in the UK. So hello to you listeners. We're excited that you're here. Excited, excited. Yep. So I just
wanted to say hello to you guys and we appreciate you checking in. So anything else you want to talk
about before we get started, Beth? No, but you were going to talk about what you were up to today.
Oh, yes. Okay. So I had my birthday week, you know, that always comes around once a year.
John and I went shopping today and I don't know if you have a Pandora bracelet jewelry shop near you.
Sure do. I love that place. It's always my go-to when John's like, what do you want for Christmas?
What do you want for your birthday? And so we went to Pandora today and I saw the cutest charm that
we got for my bracelet. It is a pink set of earphones like you and I are wearing right now.
That is too cool. So random. Why would they have that? I know. I made the salesperson move a couple
trays because they were kind of stacked on top of each other on some shelves and I really didn't
like everything on the top shelf. So I was like, Hey, can I see the next shelf down? And she pulled
that up and I looked through both trays and oh my gosh, I stopped at the pink headphones. And yeah,
that's the one that we picked out. Oh, for goodness sakes. I was excited. I couldn't wait to tell you.
Yeah, that was very exciting. Neat. Yeah. All right. We're going to get started. Now,
if you have not listened to part one or part two of the Elizabeth smart case, we highly recommend
that you do so because in part one, we gave the family's perspective on Elizabeth smarts abduction
back in 2002. And in part two, we talked about Brian Mitchell, also known as Emmanuel. We're doing
our best to really break things down and give everybody in the family the attention it deserves.
Beth, I'm not going to lie. Last session, I really got a little bit emotional there towards the end.
I am just overwhelmed with the fact that Elizabeth smart came out of this as a survivor. Today,
we are actually going to talk about her personal ordeal through this entire nine months. Well,
I'm very interested in hearing about that because I never really heard much about her after she was
found. So I'm kind of interested to hear what's going on during the kidnapping and after I'd like
to know how she's doing. Well, here we go. All right. Hey, before we get started, I just wanted
to say that I always have that disclaimer at the very beginning of our episodes, but I did want to
give a trigger warning throughout this episode. We will be talking directly about some of the things
that occurred during Elizabeth smarts abduction, specifically rape. And that's always a hard topic
to discuss. We wanted to give just an extra disclaimer that we do have some sensitive material.
Today, we're going to give Elizabeth's personal account of everything that occurred during her
nine month ordeal living with Emmanuel and Wanda, where she was forced to live with these captors
and begging the streets basically for food and money every day. We had mentioned that during the
middle of the night, an intruder entered Elizabeth's home, came into her bedroom and abducted her from
her room that she shared with her younger sister, Mary Catherine. And in later interviews, Elizabeth
said that she remembers a stranger saying, I have a knife to your neck. Don't make a sound, get up
and come with me. Now, Elizabeth being 14 years old, immediately thought about her sister that was
sharing her bed with her. I'm sure there's a ton of people that can relate to this. I personally
shared a bedroom with one of my sisters, my entire childhood until she went off to college. And I even
shared the bedroom with her when she came home from college on the weekends. So I know what it's like
to share small spaces. In this instance, Elizabeth did not hesitate to leave Beth with the intruder
because she felt the need to protect her family. That's awful sweet of her. Yeah. So as she was
being led through her dark house, Elizabeth prayed that her parents would wake up, but unfortunately
they never did. In the meantime, I had told you that Mary Catherine had woken up. She also heard
somebody saying something in the dark and she knew her sister had been taken from beside her right
out of her bed. Now, Mary Catherine was trying to figure out the best time to go to her parents
to tell them what had happened. Some reports that I saw said that she may have waited as long as two
hours because one, I would say that she was probably Beth too scared to move. She's nine years old.
She knows what just happened. He may have threatened her more. So she was just scared to move. Or in
some reports, I heard that she had said that she may have thought it was just a dream. So regardless
on if she was too scared or thought it was a dream, the abduction occurred somewhere between
2 a.m. and 2 30. And Mary Catherine ended up waking her parents up say about four o'clock in
the morning to tell them what had happened. So that's kind of where we go from there. That's
just a small little recap on everything we've talked about in the first couple of sessions,
but I'm going to go on and start talking about the camp that Elizabeth was taken to in the middle of
the night. So while the Smart family began searching that house for Elizabeth and calling
the police and other family members, Elizabeth recalls being taken into some woods surrounding
her house. You remember that I had mentioned that the Smart's home was surrounded in trees,
but you would really need to go look that up Beth to see what the Federal Heights neighborhood
looked like in Salt Lake City to get a full picture on the forestry in that area. Because
when Elizabeth and Emmanuel had left her home, they began this journey into a thick of these
woods where Emmanuel and Wanda had lived as survivalists. While they were making their way
through the woods, a car's headlights came directly towards the two Beth and Elizabeth was
instructed to duck. Emmanuel threatened her again and said, one tiny peek and you know what I will
do. So once the car was gone, they both began running all while Elizabeth continued to be held
at knife point. That has got to be terrifying for this poor girl. Yes. Yes. Well, Elizabeth straight
up told him, if you're going to rape and kill me, do it now. Well, this person at the time,
Elizabeth didn't even know who he was. In her eyes, the intruder just looked at her and said,
I'm not going to do that to you yet. I'm just going to hold you for ransom. Well, Elizabeth tried to
reason with him, telling him that her parents would absolutely pay the ransom. And she reminded him
that he could go to prison for this, but Beth, nothing phased him. He just kept her on her path
and took her into the woods. That's very strange. Well, remember his mentality to when we talked
about him in part two and where he was at and what his beliefs were. Yeah. And by 6 30 in the morning,
the sun was coming up and Emmanuel began getting a little antsy because he needed to get Elizabeth
across the mountain because he was pretty much worried they were going to be seen since Elizabeth
was wearing red pajamas. Now, remember I had told you that there were some trails in the neighborhood
where bikers and hikers could go. And so that's where he was leading her. And Emmanuel was a little
worried that they were going to be seen since the sun was coming up. And Elizabeth was forced to
climb up into the woods, which took hours to reach where they were headed. And she remembers how
Emmanuel had forced her to walk ahead of him so that she couldn't run down the mountain and,
you know, make a break for it. She also remembers that there was no way that she could run uphill
to get away from him either. And when the two got close to the camp, Emmanuel called out to his wife.
And if you remember, I'm going to call her Wanda because she went by several names, but again,
I'm not always good at pronunciation. So we're just going to call her Wanda. Elizabeth was
terrified just from the look of this woman sitting in the woods when they came upon her. In Elizabeth
words, this woman was a scary witch and the woman came up to hug her. Elizabeth even felt more
terrified just from that connection there. Yes, of course. Well, after they reached the camp,
this woman also tried to take Elizabeth's clothes off and even attempted to bathe her. But of course,
Elizabeth is going to resist, right? She had told the couple that she was very shy, but that didn't
do very much because they went ahead and disrobed her and burned her clothes very quickly and
eventually got a long robe on her that she could wear instead. Elizabeth was shackled to a tree
in the thick brush and even heard search parties calling her name at this hour, Beth. Oh my gosh.
Wow. To be hearing her name called and not being able to say anything. I will say this. When they
got to the camp, Elizabeth had noticed that it was set up for true survival in the wilderness.
Elizabeth was very well versed in her Bible and quickly turned to her faith and even prayed daily
for ways to escape. Wanda had told Elizabeth that she should be happy because Beth, it was her
wedding day. What? Yep. Wanda went on to say, go ahead though. It's okay to cry only today. Wow.
You know, they gave her a moment to allow things to sink in. I'm not going to take that as a
sign that they had any sympathy for her, but this is when Elizabeth was told that Emmanuel knew he
was going to kidnap her the day they were out with her mother and they gave him $5 in the streets,
the day he came to work on their roof. Wow. Emmanuel had scouted the house a couple of times
before he made his move. The first time would have been when he was working on the roof, of course.
And then I imagine that he probably drove by a few times to kind of see what the layout was,
look at where all the windows were and who knows, he may have actually snuck up and that's how he
was able to get into that house so easily by stacking those chairs, right? Yes. So with that
being said, he was able to successfully make an escape route and that's how he was able to get
away so quickly. Now, Emmanuel and Wanda held this marriage ceremony between Emmanuel and Elizabeth
and during the ceremony, Emmanuel told Elizabeth that she was sealed with him and that she was now
his wife. Well, that's a little freaky. It is. Can you imagine at her age, how terrifying? At 14.
Yes. And I will say this, this is where we had talked about in our last episode where the
fundamentalists beliefs come in and plural marriages. If you read that book that I had
mentioned by John Krocauer, which is under the banner, son, you will learn a lot about that. And
many times, wives are married or 14 year olds or very young women are sealed to their husband at
a young age. Oh, I didn't know that. So after they were sealed, that's when he told her that they were
going to consummate their marriage. He entered the tent where he had put her and of course,
Elizabeth tried to scream. But again, Emmanuel began threatening to kill her, which Beth, this
is a common theme, honestly, from here and throughout. So if I don't even say that he
threatened her on a daily basis, just know that as we keep going through the story, you will
understand why she didn't try to make a getaway because she was being threatened every day of her
life. Well, Elizabeth was made into a personal slave to Emmanuel. And although she begged him
daily to leave her alone, he just completely ignored her. And later that day,
Emmanuel had chained Elizabeth to the wire cable to keep her from running. So she was able to
walk a little freely, but she certainly couldn't go very far. And he made it very clear that he
was a master. She was basically at his beck and call. Now, Emmanuel did use punishment on
Elizabeth because of her spiritual beliefs and even used her Mormon religion against her.
She was starved repeatedly and forbidden to drink water until she partook in drinking alcohol on
demand. Elizabeth, of course, shunned it for as long as she could. But when she finally took a sip,
Emmanuel forced her to drink the entire cup. Oh, that is awful. Especially since she was so young
and never had a drink before. Yeah, that's sadistic. After that, he would rape her. And this just went on
pretty much every day. That was pretty much what she was dealing with behind the scenes. So we know
up until this point, everything that the public is aware of, but this is coming straight from
Elizabeth in her ordeals and what she dealt with every day. Over the next several weeks, it was
inevitable that Elizabeth eventually lost her own identity. I had told you in the last episode that
Emmanuel and Wanda made her change her name. And in some reports, I did see that her new name was
Augustine, but I also saw that she had picked her own name in which she chose the name Esther,
which came from the Old Testament. Emmanuel did not fall short of abusing Elizabeth every day.
He continuously told her that she was evil and he was going to kill her family if she ever tried to
run away. Emmanuel also reminded Elizabeth daily that he knew where she lived. And if she was ever
going to try to leave, he was going to go back to her house and kill her mother and her sister.
Because remember, he knows pretty much everybody inside that family and Mary Catherine was in the
room when he took Elizabeth. Well, three days into her capture, Elizabeth saw helicopters flying so
low, Beth, over her camp that the tent was blown down. Oh my gosh, how could the helicopters not
see? I guess those trees really had to be really dense. And the only thing I could say is I wish
they might have gone in at night and used night vision goggles because they would have seen the
body heat. Oh my. Yep. But they were looking during the day. And remember, this is like
early 2000s and I can't imagine too much difference in search parties, but to sit there knowing that
that helicopter was so low, Elizabeth heard who she thought was her uncle Dave calling out to her in
the woods. But Emmanuel had told her to keep quiet and the voices eventually stopped. That is a sad
time there for her because she would give up all hope. Yeah. And I'm sure the search party probably
did their search in a grid. So if they had already checked that area, then I'm going to assume they
just moved on to the next grid. And I don't really know on how big the search party was. So were there
people on foot? She thought she heard her uncle Dave. So they had to have been close on foot.
And then again, how thick was the brush? So many factors. Right. It must have been pretty thick.
Well, Emmanuel and Wanda were pretty much invincible. They threatened Elizabeth's family
repeatedly and they were getting away with it and everything that they had done. So that's where
Elizabeth's mindset is. She's thinking nobody's going to come for me and they're getting away
with this every day. So nobody's going to stop these people. And in that process, she slowly began
losing any remaining hope that someone was going to come find her. As a matter of fact, she lost
hope so quickly that she felt no one even cared. And she was already old news. So 14 years old,
Beth, on day three of her capture, she's already thinking nobody's going to come looking for me.
I'm old news. They've moved on. That is horrifying and sad and lots of mixed emotions there for her.
Well, Elizabeth was told that she would never be allowed to even talk about her life and her family
ever again. So they wanted her to wipe out all her memories of 14 years with her family,
never say a word about her cousins, aunts, uncles, any of her relatives. However, there was a little
problem with that because one night, Emmanuel began talking about his own mother and where she
lived. Well, Elizabeth forgot about that rule to never talk about her family, Beth. And so in the
conversation, she absentmindedly mentioned that her cousin lived very close to where Emmanuel's
mother had lived. And Emmanuel did not say anything that day, but a couple days later,
he received a revelation that Elizabeth's cousin, Olivia, would become his next wife. Oh my. And he
would talk for hours about how he had planned to kidnap more girls and bring them back to
the camp to make them his wives as well. Beth, do you remember in our last couple episodes,
when we had mentioned that Elizabeth's cousin woke up listening to her dad talking to the police
because somebody was trying to break in her house? Yes. That's the moment. That is how it occurred.
I see how things are starting to connect here. Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah, we got the behind the scenes.
This go round. Yes. Well, in mid July of 2002, Elizabeth had been chained to her camp for
somewhere around six weeks now until Emmanuel and Wanda got into an argument. And Wanda said she was
not going to stay at the camp anymore. This is when the trio began moving around town with their
robes on and their face covers on. This is when they were seen panhandling in the streets, going
to the buffet restaurants, and even that party that we had talked about. Oh. On August 27th of 2002,
the trio was seen at that public library. And this is where they were going to look up places to go
move to Southern California. And this is also where the police officers had questioned the group
and asked Elizabeth to remove her veil. But remember that I had mentioned how Emmanuel went
ballistic and said only he was allowed to look at his wife's and daughter's face. Is this starting
to add up? Yes, it is. Well, Emmanuel panhandled for somewhere around three weeks before he was
able to save up enough money for this trip. And Elizabeth describes setting up a new camp in
Southern California where she thought it looked like the fire swamp in The Princess Bride. Have
you ever seen that movie, Beth? I think I did so many years ago. It was a long time ago. Mitchell
insisted that everyone drink alcohol to celebrate their new location. And Elizabeth agreed this time
but not to celebrate, but instead to numb her trauma. So she was at this point partaking in
alcohol to numb her feelings, Beth. That is really sad. This poor girl. Yeah. But you know what,
she's a survivor. And I don't know, I have no words. I have a lot of goosebumps, but I have no
words. September of 2002, this is when Emmanuel was invited to that party and he went ahead and
went and took Wanda and Elizabeth with him. And this is that party where those pictures are that
I had talked about where Elizabeth was in the middle of the crowd. She was wearing that robe
and she had that face veil on. And the party itself was very culturally diverse. So when the
trio came in, no one really put any thought to it about how they were dressed. I had mentioned
before, some people thought they were just coming in costume. And again, the area that they were
living in, it was not highly unusual to see people wearing different outfits. Emmanuel at some point
became very unruly at the party and he got kicked out. No one at that party at the time put two and
two together to make a connection between Elizabeth's disappearance and her being seen around town.
So it was still kind of early in the game, September of 2002. I don't think everything was
highly publicized just yet because Ed Smart went to the news somewhere around February of 2003.
And that's where he began to publicize his sketch. So between September and February, there was not a
ton of information that was out there. Yes, the community and the world was on the lookout for her,
but they just didn't have a ton to go by. So I'm sure people at the party didn't give it a lot of
thought. Now, Ed did go to the news media to put out that sketch. And remember, it was that of a
clean shaven man. Within two weeks, Emmanuel's sister had told the police that they believed the
person the Smarts were looking for was her brother, Brian Mitchell. Police went to his sister's house
with a picture and she positively identified this as her brother. The detectives placed a wanted
poster around the precinct for Emmanuel's arrest in the connection to Elizabeth Smart's abduction,
but Beth, the higher ups made them take the posters down. Oh my gosh. Would you like to know why?
Why? They still believed that Richard Reesey was their number one suspect. I wonder why?
I don't know. The posters were taken down from public view, but they were relocated to the
detective's department of the building. The higher ups made them change the name from wanted to
wanted for questioning. Okay, we're just going to ask this guy a couple of questions, but we know
Richard Reesey is our number one suspect. So we're not going to put a lot of effort into this.
When the detectives realized that nothing was going to be done about going after Emmanuel,
besides just questioning Mick Fennerty, the chief FBI investigator sent the wanted poster photos
to the news media himself, Beth, and to John Walsh with America's Most Wanted. Good for you, Mick.
Yeah, for sure. So Debbie Mitchell, if you remember, was Brian Mitchell's ex-wife. She ended up
calling America's Most Wanted to pretty much give the T on her ex-husband and how he had molested
her daughter, how he was abusive and so on. Do you remember me telling you how Mitchell had fed
the rabbit to his stepdaughter for dinner one night? Yes. So she was the one to call America's
Most Wanted to at least give them a tip on his behavior and abuse. Good, good. Well, all that
was happening at the beginning of February and by February 12th, the trio continued to be seen
walking around town and around the wood line behind Elizabeth's home. Beth, I had mentioned
before, I didn't understand why Emmanuel would ever go back to the area that he took her from.
Yeah. Now he's seen directly walking around the wood line where Elizabeth's neighborhood is.
That does not make any sense to me. Do you think it goes to the usual where the criminal always
goes back to the crime scene? That's a good thought process. Yeah, because he's quite bold,
isn't he? Very, very. And it's almost like he's taunting people. Yeah. So he's very sure of
himself and it just sounds to me like he's taunting people. Well, Elizabeth states that
Emmanuel said that going into town to preach was so demanding, yet the women of the camp,
that would be Wanda and Elizabeth, they were blessed to have each other at that camp. He had
left on February 12th and was gone for at least three days, leaving both women with no food and
no water. How long can we live without food and water, Beth? I think it's around seven days for
food, three days with no water. Three days comes to mind, so I'm thinking it is a three days without
water. So these women had gone three days without water and you know that they are probably suffering
from that. Yes. Well, on February 18th of 2003, Elizabeth was starting to feel the effects of no
water and no food and she was becoming very lightheaded and said she was preparing herself
to die at this point because she had gone so long without food and water. Well, guess what? It began
to rain. There's always that blessing. She and Wanda collected the rainwater the best that they
could and they were able to rehydrate themselves at least to hold on for another day until Emmanuel
decided to show up. Look, I'm getting a little riled here. I really want to call him a name,
but I'm trying not to swear on this podcast. So otherwise he would be reaching my level of
swear words that we're going to hold off on. But anyway, along comes Emmanuel with the box of KFC,
just singing. Come on. Yep. He's singing and dancing and just having a grand old time,
making a grand entrance into the camp, telling stories of his arrest for breaking into churches
while he was gone. And he was booked at that time, went before the judge and was released
until his court date. My gosh. The nerve of him. All right. In early of March, 2003,
Leeds started coming in heavily saying that the trio was seen at that super salad buffet restaurant.
It was around this time that Emmanuel had told Wanda and Elizabeth that it was time to leave
the area again. And maybe this time they would go to New York. Elizabeth began thinking of ways to
convince him to go back to Salt Lake City. Believe it or not, Beth, this is months after her captivity
and she's still thinking of ways to escape. She played reverse psychology on him. Now that's
pretty smart for a 14 year old. She looked at Mitchell in the eye or Emmanuel in the eye and
said, I know it sounds crazy, but I just have a feeling that we need to return to Salt Lake.
Do you think if you could ask God if we are supposed to go back, I just know he will tell you
because you're a prophet. So remember she's playing the game. Wow. And she's doing an amazing job.
Gosh. Yes, she is. Because when you're dealing with that personality, when you're saying all
these high and mighty things about them, you know that it's all about them. So he probably
put some thought into that and said, Oh my gosh, you're right. Let's go back to Salt Lake City.
So Beth, this is when she told him that she needed to experience hitchhiking and they also bought
a $1 wig and a $1 pair of sunglasses and began hiking back to Salt Lake City. Wow. So that's when
she had that gray wig on Beth. Oh yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Here comes the day of reckoning.
Oh, this is just the amazing climactic moment of this entire series, Beth. I might get choked up
again. So I'm going to try to hold it together. On March 12th of 2003, the trio boarded a bus to go
back to Salt Lake City. And along the way, that passenger began questioning why this girl is
wearing a disguise because obviously she didn't have gray hair. I've seen the pictures. It
definitely looked like an old woman's wig and there's no way in heck that a 14 year old girl's
going to have gray hair. No. Well, Emmanuel had brushed the guy off and they quickly exited the
bus upon its arrival in Salt Lake City. However, calls immediately started coming into America's
most wanted hotline with witnesses saying that they spotted Emmanuel, the person that they were
looking for in Sandy, Utah. Police approached the trio very quickly, Beth, and began interrogating
them. Emmanuel, of course, gave the police three fake names and the police were not able to find
anything in their database. Because they were doing their job, police immediately separated
the trio from one another. One of the police officers continued to question Emmanuel. Another
took Wanda aside and a third officer began questioning Elizabeth. This is the officer
that took notice that the girl he was talking to resembled Elizabeth Smart. Do you remember me
talking about how he put that flyer up to her face and said, this is you, and she denied it?
I sure do. Mm-hmm. Yep. So after nine months of torture, starvation, and brainwashing,
Elizabeth remained on cue with the answers that she was groomed to say if anybody had asked her.
Remember too how I had said, Emmanuel threatened Elizabeth every day for nine months that he was
going to kill her and he was going to go after her family if she ever told anyone who she was.
So instead of saying, I am Elizabeth, she told the police that she had been staying with her
mother in Florida and had recently joined her father in Utah. This was a 45-minute conversation
with the police, Beth. Elizabeth denied that she was the missing Elizabeth Smart for 45 minutes
because of all those threats that she had been receiving against her and against her family.
In addition to the fact that she thought Emmanuel was invincible because he had gotten away with
this for so long, she kept looking over at him throughout the questioning and really believed
that no one was going to stop him because he was a smooth talker. He was able to get away with it
once or twice. He got away with it at the library. He got away with it at the buffet. And so Elizabeth
really did not believe that anything was going to be any different this go-round. Wow. So in the
meantime, Emmanuel, Wanda and Elizabeth were all handcuffed and put into separate cars as the police
were trying to coax her into telling them that she was Elizabeth. And at one point, one of the
police officers asked her if she was Elizabeth Smart and this is when she replied, thou sayeth.
And he didn't quite understand if you remember, he didn't understand why she said that, but you
have to remember why did she answer this way, thou sayeth, because this is how she and Emmanuel
and Wanda had been talking. This is how the conversations went in the last nine months.
They talked biblically. So what does thou sayeth mean? Thou, thee, you. Thou means you. Sayeth
means say. You are saying I am Elizabeth. I am not disagreeing with you. Okay. Yeah. She was using
more of a biblical language because that's how they had been talking in the camp for nine months.
And at this point in time, she had broken down. Now here's why she didn't say who she was. And
if you remember at the very end of part two, I had mentioned that Elizabeth showed outward concern
toward her captors. A lot of people questioned was this Stockholm syndrome? If anybody remembers
that case from the seventies with Patty Hearst, where you sympathize with your captors. Well,
Elizabeth showed outward concern toward her captors because she believed that Emmanuel was
within hearing distance. So if she answered, Elizabeth said in an interview that she believed
Emmanuel was within hearing distance. So if she answered, thou sayeth, then maybe he wouldn't know
what they were talking about. Oh, very smart girl. So there was no sympathizing with her captor.
She was still trying to figure out every which way, but loose to get out of this situation.
Yet she was still taking into consideration that he was going to harm her family. And so when she
said, thou sayeth, she said it in a way so that if he did overhear anything, then he wouldn't have a
clue as to what they were saying. Hallelujah. Now the police just looked at each other and
said, okay, we're going to take that as a yes, you're Elizabeth Smart. And she did not deny it
at that point. And that is when the world knew that Elizabeth Smart had been found. So after
Elizabeth's accounts, Emmanuel and Wanda were arrested for aggravated kidnapping and child
endangerment. And a short time later, Ed Smart walked into the precinct and was reunited with
Elizabeth. She was quickly reunited with the rest of her family, her siblings, her uncles, her mother,
everybody. And guess what? John Walsh even flew out the same day to give a heartfelt account
on how much joy he felt by being able to bring back a family member alive to their loved ones.
Oh, that is so nice. Isn't it? Oh, Beth, this has got to be one of the most emotional stories I've
ever told. Yes. Now, even better, her first night back home, Lois, her mother had asked if she wanted
to sleep in her room, you know, set up a palette on the floor, whatever, and they could have a big
old slumber party. And Elizabeth said, No, I just want to sleep in my own bed. But don't worry,
I'll be here in the morning. Oh, doesn't she have a sense of humor? Doesn't she though? Yes. Yep,
she's a beautiful, beautiful girl. And I mean, I'm not gonna say she's a girl anymore, because
this happened 20 years ago. That's hard to believe. My gosh, where does the time go? I know. Well,
as she was healing from this ordeal, Elizabeth's family felt it was important to let Elizabeth
make her own decisions on how to move forward. And she chose to receive support from her family
over a therapist. You remember me telling you how close everybody was? Yes. So if you're going to
look her up today, you would see that Elizabeth is married. She's got three beautiful children
of her own. And she has chosen to share her story through public speaking and writing a book so that
she could be a voice for those survivors who could not speak. And remember, Beth, she could not speak
for nine months. Yeah. In the meantime, she's gotten laws into place. And she's now married
with that family that I had mentioned. She met her husband Matthew at a missionary center who knew
nothing about her ordeal because he's originally from Scotland. And that might be a good thing,
the starting fresh. And I'm so happy to hear that the family is so close and good outcome.
Well, Elizabeth found herself faced with the same questions that you and I just talked about
a little while ago. Well, you were at the party, how come you didn't try to escape? And you were
in town with your captors. Why didn't you run? And did you sympathize with your captors? And why
didn't you try to save yourself? Well, Elizabeth stays strong and basically said that she made her
own rescue possible. And I totally agree with that. And those were some of the things that John Walsh
had said to that you cannot judge anybody because you do not know the shoes they're walking in. And
I 100% agree with that. The news media just continued on though, because we know how the
news media can be. They tried their best to get details out of Elizabeth. And I did watch
one news report, it was probably on the bigger cable channels where Elizabeth was being questioned
and anytime she tried to talk about saving other children, they kept coming back to her, but
Elizabeth stuck to her guns and shut them down really quickly anytime that she was asked for
details. That is pretty much what has happened up until this point. And there's a ton of information.
I'll probably end up saying this in just a second. But I don't know if you are even interested
to know what has happened to Emanuel and Wanda. I sure am. Okay. So remember in our earlier episode
where Emanuel was identified as Brian Mitchell. So just for the duration of this episode, I will
go ahead and call him Mitchell. And during his interrogation, his only confession to the entire
situation is that he plundered Ed Smart, which means that he just pulled the wool over his eyes.
That was his only confession. Crazy. Yep. It took eight years for Brian Mitchell and Wanda Barzei
to make it to trial because both had to go through a competency evaluation at a state mental hospital.
And some wondered if this was just a ruse as to keeping their case open or throwing it out of
court. Because of Mitchell's deep belief system that he held, the state kept him there until they
were both deemed competent to go to trial. During his court proceedings, Mitchell was nonviolent,
but disruptive throughout the entire ordeal and even went through multiple legal counsel.
Not surprised. Yeah, exactly. Well, John Walsh told Elizabeth to stand her ground and go head to
head with Mitchell in court because he felt that Mitchell's mental state was all a charade due to
the singing and dancing in court and all things considered to be an act or just simply bizarre behavior.
Elizabeth said that when she saw Mitchell shackled, she knew that he no longer had a hold on her.
And basically, Brian Mitchell in the end was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility
of parole. My gosh, thank goodness. Absolutely. Now, Wanda Barzei was sentenced to 15 years in
prison for kidnapping in child endangerment. And Beth, she's currently out on probation until 2024.
Because according to the Associated Press, Wanda Barzei was released early from prison on September
19th, 2018, after the Utah Board of Pardons and Paroles determined that they had miscalculated
the times that she had previously served in federal custody. So she is out there living her life.
I don't understand how that can be. Well, Elizabeth states that before her abduction,
she grew up with a happily ever after mentality until Brian Mitchell took that away from her.
However, she's doing amazing today and continues to be an amazing role model to young victims.
Elizabeth is an advocate for child protection rights. She went to the White House when President
George W. Bush was in office and signed the Adam Walsh Act, which requires all convicted sex
offenders to register in a nationwide database. The SMARTS began the RAD Kids Program. And in
2011, Elizabeth began the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which provides assistance to
victims and families. And you can visit that website at elizabethsmartfoundation.org to find
out more information or to donate. And I just kind of wanted to end things here just to follow up
with some of the other family members that we had talked about because they played a really heavy
role in this. David and Tom Smart, Ed's brothers, they felt that life was hard after Elizabeth had
returned. Tom had written a book about the police investigation and Ed just needed to heal privately.
Well, in 2019, Ed Smart publicly announced that he is gay. He and Lois ended up getting a divorce,
but still remain friends today. And Elizabeth stated that this is a private matter between
her parents, but fully supports them both. Lois Smart, Elizabeth's mom, has come to terms with
her relationship ending with Ed after 34 years of marriage, but she continues to reside in Utah and
is an accomplished author. That's a nice ending knowing that the parents are happy and the mother
is an accomplished author and Elizabeth is back home with her own family. Yeah, absolutely. And
has a family of her own. And there we have it. That's three parts done. Wow. Do you have a teachable
moment out of this, Deb? Well, Beth, I don't really have a full teachable moment from this other than
to say that no matter where you are, who you are, how old you are, you are loved and you know that
you have supporters out there. You have people in your lives that you may not even realize that
are there for you and will be there for you. There is a song out there. It's actually rather
old, Beth. It's called, Find Out Who Your Friends Are and it's by Tracy Lawrence. It also includes
a couple other singers, Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney. That's a great song to go listen to. Long story
short, you've got people in your lives that you know you can count on, so don't ever think that
you are dealing with things by yourself. Yes, never give up hope. Okay, I think we can end here. Do you
want to add any more thoughts or? Nope, just to say that's a wrap. Okay, so we do want to thank
you for listening to our episode and before we go, we would love for you to review on your favorite
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