1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,040 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started today, I just wanted to 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:10,800 mention that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:16,640 and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:34,560 nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:52,240 Hello everyone, I'm so glad that you're here this week. Beth, hey, how are you? And I'm excited to 6 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,880 talk about a couple things that I've been looking at this week on our stats. Well, I'm interested 7 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:05,120 to hear them too. Tell me. Yeah, so I was looking at our stats and our map is really, really blowing 8 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:10,720 up. So yes, I've put the social media out there to say that we are global. And I just wanted to 9 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:16,560 say thank you to all of our new listeners this week and keep telling your friends because just 10 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,520 every day I'm seeing those numbers go up and I can't tell you how much we appreciate that. So 11 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:27,200 thanks so much. Real quick before I get into conversation with you today, Beth, I wanted to 12 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:33,120 at least tell everybody one thing that's going on. I am having the hardest time with my microphone 13 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:39,760 on my computer. So I know the sound is probably not top notch quality. I'm working on that. I 14 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,640 actually have a really good microphone that we bought before we even started this podcast, 15 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,760 but I'm having to test a couple and I really don't think it's the microphone itself. It's 16 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:55,920 probably the software that we're using to connect with each other between two countries. So I just 17 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,040 want to let everybody know I am working on that sound and I'm trying to get that fixed as quickly 18 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,160 as possible. But otherwise that's all I've got. Beth, what are you up to? Well, there's a stamp 19 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:12,000 fest going on this weekend and I put up my challenge early at eight o'clock this morning. 20 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,440 And when I'm done the podcast, I'll spend the rest of the day doing the challenges, making cards and 21 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:23,520 using their techniques. So I'm really excited to get it done. Good deal. That sounds nice. I need 22 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,840 to get out and do a couple of things myself. The weather is turning beautiful and I think it's time 23 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:33,040 to start gardening. So that's my relaxation is gardening. So we're having a little bit of snow 24 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:39,600 on the forecast through the week. I was not expecting that. No, because you just dug yourself 25 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:46,800 out of your parking spot. I know. I just can't say enough. That is the probably the number one reason 26 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,320 why I never moved back to Canada. I know you all heard me say that before. So, Hey, are you ready 27 00:02:52,320 --> 00:03:01,120 to get started on part two? Yes. You did such a good job last week storytelling. And while I was 28 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:08,320 editing, I was still just as intrigued as the first time you told me. And I just can't get over 29 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:14,160 the fact that I've never heard about HH homes before. So I hope that going into part two, 30 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,320 that we have a lot more information and I'm excited to hear about that. But I wanted to kind 31 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:24,400 of give a recap to start off with about part one for any of our new listeners. You really have to 32 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:31,840 go back to part one. What we did is we talked a little bit more about homes being an entrepreneur, 33 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:39,520 but also a swindler before he began his murderous behaviors. And he is known as one of America's, 34 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:46,640 or is he known as America's first serial killer? First serial killer. Gotcha. So he's the first 35 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:53,920 American serial killer. And I found a documentary since the first part on Amazon prime called the 36 00:03:53,920 --> 00:04:00,720 murder hotel, which is a very good description of why homes began killing people. So in part one, 37 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:06,240 we talked about homes being in medical school and how he would work with cadavers. We also talked 38 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,680 about how he was going to fake his own death by using some of those cadavers so that he could 39 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:18,560 dissolve his marriage with his first wife, Clara. Well, homes admitted that by going to look at dead 40 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:24,960 bodies day after day, while he was in medical school, it really pushed him to become a murderer. 41 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:32,000 And experts in the documentary agreed with this to an extent, but also stated that homes began to 42 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:38,560 disassociate with the cadavers as being human beings. I found that to be really intriguing. 43 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,120 I really feel like I should have probably studied psychology because I'm just so intrigued by the 44 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:49,520 human mind and everything that can affect people. But I thought that was really, really interesting 45 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,960 to say how he became a murderer just by disassociating. So I don't know much about psychology, 46 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,280 but that was my big takeaway from the movie. Beth, are you ready to go on to part two and 47 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:04,160 tell us what's going on? Hold on. I know you're about to drop. I know it's going to happen. 48 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,960 I'm waiting. Okay. Hold on. I got to think about a story. Oh, I have a good one. Go ahead, Beth. 49 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,400 Drop. I'm trying, but how do I do it? No, I really like, okay. No, I'm kidding. Like I'm 50 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:20,160 waiting for you to drop because you keep freezing. Let me just see, ask out. Okay. Okay. Technically 51 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,040 Beth hasn't dropped, but I'm going to tell a really quick story because she's, she's out of the room. 52 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,320 She just walked in a second ago. Okay. Let me tell you about the time that she had to sit there 53 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:37,200 and tie shoelaces with me. I was three years old and who ties their shoes at age three. So Beth was 54 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:44,240 charged with teaching me how to tie my shoelaces. And it seems like we were on that picnic table for 55 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:50,080 hours. I'm sure it was probably 20 minutes. Who knows? Anyway, she helped me tie my shoes and she 56 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:58,320 had so much patience. So my mother thought that I was so smart that she had me tested for being 57 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:04,880 gifted because I could tie my shoelaces at age three. And that was pretty good for the fact that 58 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:10,560 you had a three-year-old tying shoes. But in the meantime, no, it was because Beth and I sat on the 59 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,920 picnic table. Beth, how long did we sit on the picnic table tying shoes? Can you hear me? Yes. 60 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:24,000 Okay. Well, it's, it seems like hours. I wasn't allowed to get up until you learned. But is that 61 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:29,760 a children's perspective? Yes, that's a children's perspective. Did you know that mom thought I was 62 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:36,320 gifted because I could tie my shoes at age three? No. Yeah. She had me tested. That's pretty cool. 63 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:42,320 Apparently I did not test well because I went into regular mainstream classrooms like everybody else. 64 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:48,880 You're making up for it now. Yes. On my own will, I guess. You did just get your doctorate. Yeah. 65 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:54,160 But I haven't had any intentions of saying that online, but if everybody wants to know that I'm, 66 00:06:54,160 --> 00:07:00,720 I'm a doctor, I mean, I'll say it. Hey, you all, I'm a doctor now. It's an information systems, 67 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:06,720 which is what Al is working on at your end right now. And shouldn't I be able to help you with that 68 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:14,320 because that's my expertise. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yes. It's on my end. Oh, okay. 69 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:26,160 Ever since the fair went into development, a young Pittsburgh engineer had a dream to make a 70 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:32,240 structure so tall it would overtake the height of the newly built Eiffel tower. On December 16th, 71 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:38,240 1892, the city's committee granted this engineer permission to build his structure in the midway 72 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Pliance, which is located on the South side of Chicago. Luther V. Rice, assistant engineer 73 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:51,920 based out of Missouri, received a letter asking him to build a vertical revolving wheel, 250 feet 74 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:59,680 in diameter. What the letter didn't reveal was that that this wheel could hold 2,160 people. 75 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:05,280 Can you believe that Deb? I'm trying to think of in a space, okay, so you're going to put put that 76 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:12,480 many people on a wheel, but I need something to visually help me figure out where else you can fit 77 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:20,960 2,000 people. I know it seems unhumanly possible. Yeah. And the weights for the structure, holy cow. 78 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:27,040 Exactly. And it was supposed to propel 300 feet into the sky over Jackson Park. This height 79 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:32,720 measurement stands a bit higher than what we know today as a Statue of Liberty on Staten Island in 80 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,960 New York. The engineer who wrote to Rice signed the letter George Washington Gale Ferris. Okay, 81 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,480 that makes sense. And why does it make sense? Well, come on, the Ferris wheel. Do you remember 82 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:52,000 going to the Western Fair? Yes. I love that fair. And that was one of dad's cheesy little traditions 83 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:57,120 that he took us to annually. When my kids were growing up, I did the same thing and took my kids 84 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:02,880 to the local fair. And the Ferris wheel was always one of our favorites. I did not know that it was 85 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,800 named after him. I guess it's just one of those things that you don't really question, you know. 86 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,480 The thing about this story that I like so much is there is so much that comes out of the world's 87 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,600 fair, as we'll talk about later. And everything is just so intriguing. It is because you know, 88 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:24,000 you think that that's back in the time when there's limited resources or because yeah, 89 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:31,600 so you've got that going on. Yet the world is coming to the Industrial Revolution period of time. 90 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:37,040 So they, I mean, this is around the time that everything really, really started to explode. 91 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:45,280 And the world is what we know it as today. In February 1892, John Olmsted, the man in charge 92 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:50,880 of the fair's construction and landscaping was burning out fast from his massive project. He 93 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,160 suffered from depression throughout his entire adult life. And he was reaching his limit on his 94 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:02,320 job assignment. For example, building on the grounds had a lot of delays, damages, and fighting 95 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,920 over the island that he wanted to keep free from overdevelopment. That's interesting that he was 96 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:14,400 concerned about overdevelopment at that time. Again, we just spoke about the Industrial Revolution 97 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,760 and everything exploding, but it's interesting. I'm thinking from an environmental standpoint that 98 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:26,160 you already had people saying, Hey, we don't want this area to be overdeveloped. Exactly. That is 99 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,800 really funny back then when things were less populated. Yeah. You know, you were talking 100 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:37,120 about Jackson Park in episode one, we were talking about how the same architect that made Jackson 101 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:43,280 Park also made Central Park in New York. And I have been to Central Park and it's big and beautiful, 102 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:49,920 but it's surrounded by all of these high rises. Yet there is just some space that is clearly 103 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,680 not developed and still has green space. You know, going back to that's pretty interesting 104 00:10:55,680 --> 00:11:00,240 that this gentleman was thinking about the development of the area at that time with the 105 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:06,960 population. Sure. It sure is. So Olmsted asked Charles Elliott, a former assistant and one of 106 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,800 Boston's best landscape architects, if he could come and help. When Elliott arrived, he saw how 107 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:19,120 sick Olmsted was. Olmsted was in such pain from all the work he took on, which was too much even 108 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:25,360 for a man half his age. So he decided to step down from the World's Fair project and leave for Europe 109 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:33,920 to get some rest. Olmsted boarded a boat that was set for sale on April 2nd, 1892, where he eventually 110 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:39,920 landed in Liverpool. Harry Codman was forced to take over direct supervision of what was known 111 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:46,640 as the White City because Jackson Park was full of white buildings. By early March, Olmsted and 112 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:52,240 Elliott were back in Brookline, which is located very close to Inglewood. Elliott was now a partner 113 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:58,960 and the firm was newly named Olmsted, Olmsted and Elliott. It was worry over Olmsted's health 114 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,640 and pressure of the work that prompted his leaving Chicago. On March 11th, Olmsted left the work in 115 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,840 care of his superintendent, Rudolph Ulrich. The dedication to the fair had been anticipated 116 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:16,400 nationwide. Francis J. Bellamy, an editor of Youth's Companion, thought it would be a wonderful 117 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:22,320 thing if all the children across America would say something in unison. He composed a pledge that 118 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:29,440 the Bureau of Education mailed to every school in the country. As it was originally worded, it began, 119 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:36,320 I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands. Wow, that's the pledge of 120 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:42,080 allegiance for American schools today. Yeah, it's really cool. It is cool because you're giving me 121 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:49,760 so much history, like the fact of the people that made the parks in the area and how this ties into 122 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,400 how the pledge of allegiance is said. That's interesting. I always remember standing up in 123 00:12:54,400 --> 00:13:02,000 elementary school singing, Oh Canada. And then I remember God Save the Queen. Yes, do they still 124 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:08,480 do that? Do you know? I don't think so. Okay, yeah, we did that too. With construction completed on 125 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:15,680 Holmes World's Fair Hotel, the Columbus World Fair opened on May 1st, 1893. This fair is known 126 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:21,040 around the world and began in celebration of Christopher Columbus's discovery of America. 127 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:28,160 It ran from May to October, attracting people from all over the world. Again, I'm starting to see all 128 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:34,640 this connection. Now, I remember as a child hearing about the World Fair, they don't still have one 129 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:40,400 anymore, do they? I think there are. When I was Googling World Fair, I wanted some details on 130 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:47,680 this particular story. I saw other World's Fairs come up. Okay. Well, I mean, I guess it's around 131 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:53,440 the world. It's kind of like the Olympics, right? Yes. World's Fair, maybe it's coming to a city 132 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:59,440 near you. Who knows? Holmes was receiving a lot of traffic to his hotel. Although he told men looking 133 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:06,080 for a room that there were no vacancies, he always had room for women. Now in part one, we left you 134 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:11,040 with the fact that Holmes remarried for a third time to Minnie Williams. However, Holmes still 135 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:17,120 needed to have time alone with his female customers and found an apartment several blocks away from 136 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:23,600 his hotel for Minnie to live. Holmes explained to Minnie that she needed a nicer, larger home to 137 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:29,600 herself rather than staying at the castle where other guests frequently came and went. Holmes was 138 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,400 becoming known as a man who forgave easily because he didn't bat an eye when any of the guests left 139 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:41,040 without paying her bill. Townfolk also overlooked his constantly smelling like chemicals because his 140 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:47,360 whole building did as well. After all, Holmes was well known in the community as a physician. Plus, 141 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:53,680 he ran the pharmacy on the ground floor of his retail building and hotel. The World's Fair was 142 00:14:53,680 --> 00:15:00,400 a massive event that ran an exposition in addition to carnival rides and other entertainment. This 143 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,320 intrigued many visitors because they were able to observe the latest inventions such as a display 144 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:12,480 of the first zipper as well as the first all-electric kitchen which included a dishwasher. 145 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:19,440 A dishwasher? Wait, what year was this? 1895? All I know is that when I was a child, we weren't 146 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:25,200 allowed to have a dishwasher in our home because Dad always said he had three of them. You, me, 147 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:32,000 and Kathy. I know. I miss having one. You don't have a dishwasher? No. What? Sometimes I wash three 148 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,400 times a day just to keep that kitchen looking nice. You know what? There's nothing wrong with going 149 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:46,080 back to simplicity, says the girl who has a dishwasher. Did you know, Deb, that juicy 150 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:52,000 fruit gum made its debut on the market? Popcorn known as Cracker Jack and shredded wheat cereal, 151 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:57,200 just to name a few. Can you get over that? First of all, I only like one of those three and I'm 152 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:03,840 not going to say which one, but that's cool that it goes back that far. Wow. That's innovative for 153 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:09,600 the time. There is. There were shows put on by Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley who was known as a 154 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:15,360 sharp shooter and appeared in the Wild West show. George Washington Gale Ferris continued to work 155 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:21,840 diligently to get his 300 foot high wheel working. Although H.H. Holmes clouded a shroud of mystery 156 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:27,360 over the World's Fair, there are some intriguing facts that came from the fair. For instance, Mr. 157 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,720 Ferris invented the Ferris wheel. Mark Twain arrived to Chicago to attend the fair, but was 158 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:39,680 sick and remained in his hotel for 11 days. Wow. Frank Haven Hall, the inventor of a machine used 159 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,440 for typing Braille, unveiled a new machine that made plates for printing books and Braille. There, 160 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,880 Haven met Helen Keller and Walt Disney's father, Elias, helped to build the White City. Did Walt 161 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:57,840 Disney use that as a starting point for his magic kingdom? The writer Al Frank Baum attended the 162 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,760 fair and he was so impressed by its appearance and style and was a jumpstart to his book, 163 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:09,280 The Wizard of Oz. I would have to look at pictures of the World's Fair to make that connection, 164 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,960 but that's cool. I mean, there's so much that has come specifically from this World's Fair. 165 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,600 That's so interesting. So thanks for the little bit of history besides what we're, 166 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,240 you know, the topic that we're on. I love that you're adding history to it. That's cool. 167 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,560 Yeah. I kind of like it too, for a change. Turning back to Chicago, we're going to talk 168 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:34,160 about how Holmes progressively worked his way up to heinous crimes. Holmes went on to use the 169 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:40,080 World's Fair as a backdrop to his majority of his murder schemes. During the time of Chicago's 170 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:48,000 World's Fair, he is said to have murdered over 200 hotel guests and their children for insurance 171 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:55,280 payouts, cadaver sales, and sex crimes. I can't believe he got away with this for so long. 172 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,320 I'm sure you're never investigated. That seems just kind of weird. I think you're right, because 173 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,840 I'm sitting here saying that's a big number, 200 people, like nobody reported people going missing, 174 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,680 but you're right. And then again, I think we talked to part one, how if you've got people going to 175 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:17,200 traveling a distance, well, they didn't have the telephone yet. They didn't have any other way to 176 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,960 communicate besides letters, which took how long to get to people, right? Yes, exactly. 177 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,000 You know, a lot of time could go by between people being missing. And then I'm thinking, 178 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,920 if anything were suspicious enough and Holmes were investigated, then of course he can say, 179 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:40,560 oh yeah, they checked out. No problem. They left days ago. But I find it fascinating that so many 180 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:48,320 people fell victim to him for whatever devious crimes he wanted to commit. And it kept going. 181 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:55,600 Holmes first victim was Dr. Robert Leacock, who attended medical school with him. After Holmes was 182 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:01,040 caught, he never really gave a valid reason to kill him, except that he had to start somewhere. 183 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:07,120 Holmes enticed Dr. Leacock to come to Chicago. Holmes enticed Dr. Leacock to come to Chicago. 184 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:12,800 And Holmes poisoned him with a high dose of laudanum, which is primarily used in prescribed 185 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:19,760 cough medicine. He put Leacock in a tub full of ice so he could collect $20,000 in life insurance. 186 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:25,920 He used this money to build his murder hotel. Always scheming, Holmes hired his furniture mover, 187 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:31,200 Wade Warner, to pretend to be the inventor of a new glass bending machine. Warner built a glass 188 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:36,080 burner in the basement of his hotel to fool investors. Once the equipment was built, 189 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:41,440 Holmes killed Warner because of a check fraud. Holmes collected money on two checks written out 190 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:47,120 to Warner. He changed the check amounts to add the words thousand, and he was able to collect 191 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:54,000 another $51,000. If Warner were to discover that Holmes stole these two checks, he would be arrested. 192 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,880 So he did what any criminal would do. He lured Warner to come back to the basement where the 193 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:05,040 glass kiln was located. Holmes was able to convince Warner to step into the kiln. And when he did, 194 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:11,840 Holmes turned up the gas and reduced Warner to ashes. Can I stop you there? If somebody were to 195 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,960 ask you to step inside a kiln, would you do it? Well, when I first read that, I thought it was 196 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,520 crazy. But then of course, we don't know what his intentions are. I mean, it's kind of like taking a 197 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,400 tour of the building, right? Interesting. Sorry to interrupt. I just had that thought. I will 198 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:32,400 probably continuously interrupt you through this presentation. Very good. It is pretty intriguing. 199 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:38,880 Mm hmm. In 1891, the cadaver killings began. This was a year that Holmes conducted much of 200 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,240 his business murders through cadaver sales to the medical schools. This was also when Holmes went on 201 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:50,000 a killing spree of massive proportion to sell off cadavers to the medical schools. Remember, 202 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:55,600 these medical schools were short on dissection specimens in their labs. And Holmes constantly 203 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:01,040 harvested bodies in the name of science when he discovered that selling bodies was quite popular. 204 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:07,520 And I ask a question is probably a silly one, because we know that Holmes is the first known 205 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:16,080 American serial killer. If cadaver sales were so popular, then does that mean all the other people 206 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,280 that were selling cadavers to the medical schools just weren't getting caught? Because I think we 207 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,720 talked about that in part one as well. Yes, that they were grave robbing. Okay, so they were 208 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,640 grave robbing, but Holmes just took it to the extra step and he just blatantly started killing 209 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:38,480 people. Exactly. Okay. Brain was telling him to do. That's what what his brain was telling him to do. 210 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:45,200 Got you. Okay. Normal people don't have those thoughts. You are right, Beth, the mind of a 211 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:53,280 serial killer. Okay, who keep going. Charles. Sorry, hold on. I keep talking over you. I told 212 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:59,440 you I would do that. Take a minute. You finish laughing first. You should see her. She's got her 213 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:05,760 eyes closed, head swinging back. Oh my God. There's nothing funny about this situation. But what you 214 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:12,400 just said about his brain was telling him, okay, I'm, I'm done now. All right. Three, two, one, go. 215 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,720 By this time, Holmes had Charles Chappell, the master skeleton prepare on his payroll to skin 216 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:25,120 bodies down so they could be mounted in doctors offices. Holmes could get $130 for just one 217 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:30,560 mounted skeleton. Holmes preferred to explore the body thoroughly, but did not like to use 218 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,760 Chappell too much so as not to raise suspicion. Sometimes he would commission Chappell to finish 219 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:41,600 skinning a body, but most of the time he disposed of the bodies himself in his kiln or in pits 220 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,200 filled with quick lime in the basement of his hotel. Was this the same gentleman that he hired 221 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:53,200 in part one to skin people like rabbits? Yes. Okay. Holmes set up an underground business in 222 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,320 the basement to move corpses in and out without bringing attention to himself. He found that it 223 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:04,560 was incredibly easy to sell bodies to the medical schools. So his killings became very routine. 224 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:10,480 Holmes went on to murder another man named Dr. Russell, which Holmes claimed to be an accident. 225 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:16,080 The two men got into a scuffle over rent and Holmes struck Russell with a chair and ended up 226 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:22,080 killing him. So he sold Russell's body to a medical school. Ever the convincing businessman, 227 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:28,480 Holmes invited an investor by the name of Charles Cole to his castle. Holmes struck Cole with a gas 228 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:35,680 pipe and crushed his skull so badly that the party he sold the corpse to couldn't even use it. This 229 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:42,320 is the reason behind Holmes installing a gas vault in his office so that he did not sell off any more 230 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:48,080 corpses that appeared to be bludgeoned to death. However, Holmes method of choice was to use 231 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:54,800 chloroform. I guess I have a question. I'm sorry. I'm following along with the story, but I have 232 00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:05,280 another question. All right, ask away. Okay, sorry. If he was so stupid enough to turn in a body that 233 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,640 was bludgeoned to death, or, you know, I guess it was probably stripped down to the skeleton at that 234 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,480 point, but it appeared to be bludgeoned to death, how come nobody turned him in? What do you think 235 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:23,280 his excuse was for turning in a corpse that looked like that in that condition? This man had an 236 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:29,280 excuse for everything. He was a very smooth operator. That's why the women liked him so much. 237 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:36,720 And everybody was enamored by this man. You'll find out later in the story that everyone is enamored 238 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:43,360 by this gentleman, if you want to call him that. No, I don't want to call him that. No, he certainly 239 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:48,560 wasn't. Holmes' murder method of choice was to use chloroform so that his victims appeared to die 240 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,520 a natural death. He would get his chloroform supplies from the clerk in his hotel pharmacy, 241 00:24:53,520 --> 00:25:00,080 who made a comment later that he was always got so much chloroform. This is when the women's 242 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:06,160 killings began in 1892. A waitress in Holmes' restaurant went missing with no word as to her 243 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,440 whereabouts. Also, a stenographer went missing around the same time. Another woman who was 244 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:17,040 staying in the hotel went missing, but the reasons for her staying there were not clear. Family and 245 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:22,400 friends began inquiring about their missing loved ones, but the police did not become involved 246 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:28,480 because of the large presence of rich visitors and foreign dignitaries that began arriving in 247 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:34,480 large numbers, all in the name of the World's Fair. And there's your answer to your question. 248 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:40,000 Yeah, that makes sense. And then while you were actually talking, I had another thought, 249 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:46,160 which was why is he only targeting women? Because isn't it just to try to make money 250 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:52,800 at the medical schools? Wouldn't men be just it or maybe because women are, I hate to say this out 251 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:59,680 loud, the weaker sex. So physically he was probably able to overcome them more so than a guy, except 252 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:06,320 for the one that he put in the kiln, right? Right. And I wonder too, if it might be because 253 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:13,440 it would be more noticeable if men disappeared. Because they were the ones to basically bring 254 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:20,240 home the bacon. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. This man thinks of everything. He 255 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:26,240 sure does. News of missing residents or guests will be poor publicity for such a grand event. 256 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,720 And the city's committee worked very hard to prepare for this chance in a lifetime to show 257 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,680 off their city. Yeah, we don't want negative publicity, certainly for such a big event. 258 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:42,240 This was certainly an event on a grand scale for those days. A few papers reported that police 259 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,040 received a tip about a drugstore clerk or stenographer by the name of Kitty Kelly, 260 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,440 who went missing in 1892. This was never really investigated. Again, because this is still the 261 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:59,280 1800s, many people came and went without the ability to fully follow up on their whereabouts. 262 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:05,040 There are dozens more victims reportedly to have gone missing, which we will add to our show notes, 263 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,520 but there was little investigation of their disappearance. So now we're going to talk about 264 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:16,960 Anna, also known as Nanny and Minnie Williams. On July 4th, 1893, the World's Fair opened its 265 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,640 festivities with fireworks. Before settling down for the night, Holmes told his wife Minnie that 266 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:28,160 he wanted to take Anna on a tour of the World's Fair Hotel. Well, Minnie stayed at the Wrightwood 267 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:34,000 flat in preparation for any new renters. Anna was Minnie's sister and came to town to visit during 268 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,760 the World's Fair in Chicago. Anna was charmed by Holmes' good looks and charm, just as Minnie had 269 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,280 described to her in letters before her arrival in Chicago. Because Holmes knew that the most of his 270 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:51,360 guests would be at the World's Fair, he took Anna on a tour of the drugstore, restaurant, and barbershop 271 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:57,360 where he ended his tour in his office. Holmes took up reading a document and nonchalantly asked Anna 272 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:02,960 to go into the vault to retrieve another document. She complied and right behind her followed the 273 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:09,280 ever so quiet Holmes. He closed the vault as if by accident. All the while, Anna was pounding on the 274 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,320 door and calling for help. She thought the door closed on its own and that Holmes must have gone 275 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,800 into another room. That makes sense. I mean, to come to that conclusion, I would probably think 276 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:24,080 the same thing. Yeah. Eventually, Anna took her shoe off and banged on the door as hard as she 277 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:29,760 could. What she didn't know was that Holmes sat just outside the door receiving sexual pleasure, 278 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:35,040 just listening to her cries for help. Eventually, Anna went silent as Holmes filled the vault with 279 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,960 gas from his secret valve in the closet. What a scoundrel. I mean, why? I don't get it. I just 280 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:48,000 don't get it. Yes, his brain is telling him to do this, but it's just so gross. Yeah. And nonstop. 281 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,360 And I don't, I don't even know his reasoning behind how he thinks he can even get away with this. 282 00:28:53,360 --> 00:29:00,320 No, he seems to be working faster on getting rid of people. Yeah. Don't cross him. Don't worry. I 283 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:09,520 won't. Hold on. This is not funny, but it's, I guess yours and my interaction today is comical. 284 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:18,240 Well, it is. We started this, we went online exactly two hours ago. Holy cow. Just chatting 285 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:25,280 and recording and stopping and fixing my computer. We're two hours into this. I know it's not going 286 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,240 to be another two, so we should keep going. Okay. Later that evening, Holmes summoned Minnie to the 287 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,040 Murder Castle from her apartment. To be honest, there was not a lot of information on Minnie's 288 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,480 disappearance, so we can assume she met the same fate as her sister. We do know that Holmes enjoyed 289 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,840 being close to his victims, close enough that he could hear them panic, especially if they were 290 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,920 lured into the vault, which held back most of the noise, although not all of it. Because of the noise 291 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,120 of those locked in the vault could be heard by nearby guests. Holmes used the means of gassing 292 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:03,440 visitors in select hotel rooms and let them die in their sleep. Remember when we were in part one, 293 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:10,560 talking about the phenomena and the footprint? Yes. Do you think this could have been? Now, 294 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:16,000 I mean, I don't know. You did the research on this. I looked up some of this stuff after part one, 295 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:22,240 but do you think that the footprint could have belonged to Anna or Minnie? I'm going to surmise 296 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:29,920 no, at least to Anna, because if she took the shoe and banged on the door, she would be standing up 297 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:36,640 and holding that shoe way up. Oh, yes. Okay. That makes sense. So I don't know whose foot it was, 298 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,960 because it never mentioned in the book, because it's an unknown fact right now. Okay. Because of the 299 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,320 noise, those locked in the vault can be heard by nearby guests. Holmes used the means of gassing 300 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,680 visitors in select hotel rooms and let them die in their sleep. Most guests in the hotel were 301 00:30:53,680 --> 00:31:01,040 easily killed because in 1894, they were less likely untraceable. Even if the family knew people 302 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,560 were going to the World's Fair in Chicago, it could take weeks before people were reported missing. 303 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,920 By then, Holmes could easily say his guests checked out of his hotel with no incidents and no one would 304 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:17,360 be the wiser. Holmes later said during his confession that his guests were either gassed from the pipes 305 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,960 and stalled throughout the hotel, or he crept into the rooms with a chloroform soaked rag. 306 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,520 He had so much chloroform. Isn't that what his aid said in the pharmacy? 307 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,720 Exactly. And now we know why. Interesting. And some people may wonder, well, how would he 308 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:38,800 not hear him enter? Well, out comes home from work at midnight when I'm asleep, comes in, turns on 309 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,400 lights, comes into bed. I don't hear a single thing. I don't either. I'm a very heavy sleeper. 310 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,360 I mean, I've had people when I've especially had a cold or something and maybe taken some cold 311 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,560 medicine, I have had people throwing bricks at the side of the house where they knew I was sleeping 312 00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,000 to try to get me to wake up and it's virtually impossible to wake me up because I'm a heavy, 313 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:06,560 heavy sleeper. Me too. And so once Minnie and her sister Annie were targeted, Holmes still needed 314 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:12,560 to dispose of the bodies. It was said that either he sold their bodies to the medical schools or he 315 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,920 hired moving services to pick up a box and a trunk. If indeed it was the latter, he hired 316 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,800 Sefus Humphrey and told them to come just after dark because Holmes didn't want the neighbors 317 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,080 seeing Humphrey move the trunk. Humphrey went to retrieve the trunk and found it to be extremely 318 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:33,520 heavy. He was instructed to take the box to Union Depot at a specific platform. Holmes made 319 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,320 arrangements for the box to be picked up and loaded it onto the train, but a destination was 320 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,440 never disclosed regarding the trunk. Humphrey could not recall where he took it. Soon afterwards, 321 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,400 Holmes made a special donation of a collection of dresses, hats, and shoes to his assistant, 322 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:54,160 Benjamin Pettisall. Holmes said the items belonged to his cousin Minnie. So he's starting to give 323 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:01,840 all of the women's clothes away. So in 1993, we're going to start talking about his insurance fraud. 324 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:08,560 On October 30th, 1893, the World's Fair came to a close and with it, Holmes thought it was time for 325 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:14,240 him to move on because he was feeling the pressure of having creditors coming after him. By this time, 326 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:21,920 Holmes was accumulating debt in excess of $50,000. In addition, many people were also coming forward 327 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:28,080 wondering where their missing family members were. So everything is really starting to build up and 328 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,280 people are no longer taking no for an answer from him, right? Exactly. He's starting to feel really 329 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:40,080 squeezed and very running out of excuses. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Well, I mean, I guess it had to 330 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:46,560 eventually, but interesting too that the timeline is when the World's Fair is coming to a close 331 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:52,320 because didn't he build the hotel for the purpose of accommodating people for the World's Fair? 332 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:58,160 Sure he did. And then I think you said in part one that he was planning on destroying the hotel 333 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,800 afterwards anyway. So interesting that the timeline is that maybe he's starting to make 334 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:08,320 a lot more mistakes or coming up with too many unbelievable stories at this point. 335 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,040 How long does the fair go on? I think you said May to October, right? Yes. Okay. So yeah, 336 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:20,960 that's long enough for him to do his dirty deeds. Now remember, Holmes was a free man at this point 337 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,640 since he just disposed of his wife Minnie. Since he inherited her land, he was considered quite 338 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:33,440 wealthy. He soon began courting 23 year old Georgina Yope, whom he met at a department store. 339 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,880 Like the woman before her, Georgina quickly fell head over heels for Holmes. He loved to give 340 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,400 presents to her, which included a Bible, diamond earrings, and a locket with a little heart and 341 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:50,000 pearls. Holmes asked her to marry him. And of course she said yes. Once they were married, 342 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:56,400 Holmes told Georgina that he would have to go by the name of Henry Mansfield Howard, an alias that 343 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,600 would cover for his old debts. Oh yeah. By the way, I have to go by a different name now. That's 344 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:08,400 fishy. Yeah. Very fishy and something in today's day and age that we certainly would frown upon 345 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,840 and start Googling and seeing where this person is known. In the meantime, remember how I started 346 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:20,400 this story by telling you that Holmes was big into insurance fraud? Yes. Well, in November, 1893, 347 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,600 police paid him a visit to follow up on money frauds. He previously committed an Inglewood. 348 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,640 That's where he lived before moving to Chicago. When they arrived, the authorities discovered 349 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,160 several shipping packages waiting to be picked up. When they asked what was inside, Holmes lied. So 350 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,520 the police were not aware that the packages held dead bodies of his victims. After the police left, 351 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:47,440 however, Holmes burned these packages because he knew police were closing in on him. There was no 352 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:53,840 telling how soon he and his murder castle could be discovered. Question. You said he had a kill 353 00:35:53,840 --> 00:36:01,680 downstairs that he burned one of his victims in. So why wouldn't he just use that? And for, I guess 354 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:08,640 here's the deal. What's he doing? Is he selling bodies off to the medical schools or is he trying 355 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,600 not to do it to everyone? So they're not saying, Oh wow, that's a lot of bodies this week, Mr. 356 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:19,760 Holmes. Where are you coming up with those? That's how I interpret it, the story to be going. So 357 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,920 instead of shipping them off somewhere, cause somebody's got to receive them. Maybe he's in 358 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:29,200 cahoots with somebody to do that, but why doesn't he just use the kiln downstairs that he used on 359 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,800 his first victim down there? The one that built the kiln. Remember? Yes. And we'll find out later 360 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:42,800 that there, there wasn't a huge number of remains found. So he's divvying up to different people so 361 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:49,520 that he can't be caught. He really put his thinking cap on. He did. After the police left, however, 362 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,080 Holmes burned these packages because he knew police were closing in on him. There was no telling 363 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,200 how soon he and his murder castle would be discovered. Holmes also set fire to the first 364 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:06,720 floor of his hotel very quickly. And on new year's day, 1894, he fled to Fort Worth, Texas with his 365 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:12,080 new wife, Georgina to secure Minnie Williams land. They eventually ended up in Philadelphia, 366 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:17,280 where they met up with Holmes' former acquaintance, Benjamin Pitezel. Now we talked about Benjamin 367 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:23,200 during part one, where Pitezel was taking the cure for alcoholism and inspired Holmes to open the 368 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,960 Silver Ash Institute. Pitezel was also the one who introduced Holmes to Emmeline, who eventually went 369 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,840 missing like the other woman who came across his path. Pitezel was also Holmes' partner in the 370 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,960 insurance scams that took place before he moved to Chicago. Little did he know he would become 371 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,360 Pitezel's next victim. Holmes has no scruples, man. He is hitting up the people closest to him. 372 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:52,080 Yeah, that's so wrong. In the fall of 1894, Benjamin Pitezel took out a life insurance policy 373 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:58,480 for himself in the amount of $10,000, which is about $330,000 today. 374 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:05,200 Oz, you said that Benjamin is the one that came up with some of these life insurance policy schemes 375 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:12,560 before Holmes moved to Chicago, right? Yes. So were they not taking life insurance policies 376 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:19,760 out on families of three? I don't know if I already said that in part one. Yeah, you did. So I guess 377 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,760 my question is, is how, I don't want to disrespect Benjamin because he's a victim, but I'm just 378 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:33,600 curious to know how he would not think he's taking an insurance policy out on himself for a scheme 379 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:40,000 that he and Holmes did years earlier and took on other victims. You know what I'm doing? That is 380 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,120 an excellent point. Excellent. I don't really know where I was going with that other than to say, 381 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,240 I don't know how Benjamin would not have come up. I mean, at least had some kind of indication that 382 00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:54,080 something was about to happen to him. And that's what I'm assuming is that something is about to 383 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,040 happen because you just said that he was about to be Holmes next victim. So yeah, like he had done 384 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:05,280 before, Holmes said he would find a person of similar appearance to set up a quote, fake death. 385 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:11,280 Both men traveled to various parts of the United States, committing various frauds along the way. 386 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:17,040 Eventually they ended up in Philadelphia. And this is where Holmes found Pitosol's hands together, 387 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,880 then burnt him alive. So that's different from what he's been doing in the past. Yes. And that 388 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:31,920 seems very personal. I mean, ultra violent, but also really, really personal. He must be getting 389 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:39,120 more lax about hiding his victims. Yeah. Because he, he's already knowing that people are closing 390 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:44,560 in on him. So that makes sense. Realizing that Pitosol's wife and children would inherit the 391 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,440 money. He told Benjamin's wife, Carrie, that her husband was in hiding and that he could take the 392 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:55,840 children to him. Once he had the children, he cut up, burned and stuffed eight-year-old Howard up 393 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:01,680 the chimney of a house in Indiana. He took the two girls, Alice and Nellie with him all the way into 394 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:08,320 Canada. The girls wrote letters to their parents back home, but Holmes never mailed them. On October 395 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:15,600 25th, 1894, Holmes put the girls in a makeshift gas chamber made out of his luggage trunk. 396 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:22,880 Where would he get gas at this point? If he's on the run? What happened is he rented a house 397 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:29,600 and the trunk was inside that house. So, okay. So they, I mean, obviously you had, you know, 398 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,840 when you have gas inside a house to keep the house warm or to do cooking, right? Right. Okay. Okay. 399 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:42,320 I didn't realize that he was in that house. I thought he was, okay, go ahead. So in 1895, 400 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,280 Holmes was on the run. In the meantime, the insurance company became suspicious that 401 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,520 Benjamin's death was no accident and they began an investigation. So there we go. There's our first 402 00:40:53,520 --> 00:41:00,480 investigation. Finally. They hired a detective by the name of Frank Geyer to track down who took 403 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:07,280 out the policy. On July 7th, 1895, Detective Geyer was assigned to the Holmes' Pizzle case. 404 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:13,360 This took his search to Toronto in Canada after other avenues did not reveal any sign of the 405 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:19,040 children. His search led him to a house where Holmes once rented. The landlord commented that 406 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:24,720 Holmes arrived with very little furniture, a mattress and an old bed and an unusually 407 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:29,760 large trunk. So there's our trunk. The girls are already in it or that came later. I guess 408 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:36,640 I'm getting ahead of myself. Yeah. I think it came later because just the nature of the big trunk, 409 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,120 everybody would feel how heavy it is. Although they did say earlier that that trunk was heavy, 410 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,920 didn't they? I think that was a different case. But if the landlord is just saying he arrived 411 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:51,120 two months ago and he came with an unusually large trunk, I mean, I don't know, were the girls with 412 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:58,400 him? I don't know. Yes, they were with him. But did the landlord see them with him? That's the 413 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,640 question. That is the mystery. Yeah. Every story needs a mystery. And here's one of them. Most 414 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:10,400 definitely. The owner of the house also stated that Holmes wanted to borrow a shovel to dig a hole in 415 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:16,640 the basement floor to store potatoes. Now, back in those days, they didn't have cement basements. And 416 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,640 that's why people are digging into the floor. They were cool by the just by the soil. And then 417 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,480 too interesting that they're storing potatoes. So the landlord's not thinking anything's fishy, 418 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:33,920 because I'm sure it was quite normal at the time to store potatoes. We know how long potatoes last. 419 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:39,360 So if it's in a cool, dark place, then I think they last even longer, right? Yeah. So nothing's 420 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:45,040 out of the ordinary. As Detective Geyer took the lead and began digging in the basement of the 421 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:51,440 house that Holmes had rented, a stench became very overwhelming. He soon found a soft spot where a 422 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:58,880 slight hole had been made. And on July 15th, 1895, Alice and Nellie's bodies were found in this 423 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,400 Toronto cellar in a makeshift grave three feet deep. While removing the bodies from the basement, 424 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,680 Detective Geyer noticed that Nellie's feet had been amputated. The point of my telling you this is 425 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:15,520 because Nellie was club-footed and Holmes amputated her feet so she could not be identified. Upon 426 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:21,040 further searching, her feet were never found. Later, the authorities eventually found teeth and 427 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:27,200 pieces of bone among charred ruins that belonged to Alice and Nellie's brother Howard in an Indianapolis 428 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:32,720 cottage that Holmes had rented. The coroner could not find any marks of violence on the children 429 00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:38,160 and surmised that Holmes locked the girls in the large trunk, then filled it with gas from a lamp 430 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:44,400 valve, like I mentioned earlier. So there's how we have our gas. All right. Well, yeah, that, 431 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:51,120 okay. I wasn't even thinking about lamps back then. Oh, me neither. So here in 1895, we're leading up 432 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:56,880 to Holmes arrest. Police discovered Holmes ominous pass because those letters that Benjamin Pizzle's 433 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,920 daughters wrote, he never got rid of them. The police were able to piece together a timeline 434 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:08,960 of events and eventually exposed all of Holmes murderous activities. Why would Holmes not get 435 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:14,400 rid of the letters? If he knows people are closing in on him, would he not want to get rid of as much 436 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:22,080 evidence as possible? But if he is like the typical serial killer who likes to keep a little piece of 437 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:27,840 their victims with them, you know, how, how serial killers tend to keep something from their victims. 438 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:34,160 I guess I'm tossing around the idea. Did he hold onto those letters because of that mindset or 439 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,320 maybe he's just starting to make more mistakes as I think you're right. I think he's, he's wanting 440 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:46,960 to keep a little piece of remembering them and who knows he could have had other stuff too, that 441 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:52,640 we don't know about. And then too, I mean, there's no telling what was in the letter. So whatever he 442 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,280 could be reading too, could be a piece of it too, as to why he kept them. But I find it interesting 443 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,720 that at this point, he, he's really starting to make mistakes and why he wouldn't get rid of letters 444 00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:08,000 is beyond me because he's pretty good about setting fires, right? Exactly. So Benjamin Pizzle's 445 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,600 daughter, Alice, led the police to the Gaunt house in Toronto. Through the letter she wrote to her 446 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:19,680 family and Holmes never threw them away. This led the police straight to Holmes murder hotel, 447 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,880 which they stormed the day after the body of Pizzle's children were found in that basement 448 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:31,200 in Toronto. Holmes was eventually placed under arrest in Boston, Massachusetts for insurance 449 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,960 fraud and for the suspicion of murder. He was eventually held in my own men saying prison 450 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:45,360 lock locaty. It was eventually held in moments in prison located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 451 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,240 That's so funny, Beth, 452 00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:54,080 because you had a typo and I was trying to pronounce that he had no idea what a locaty was. 453 00:45:54,720 --> 00:46:02,400 Beth is doing such a phenomenal job of reading this story and I had a typo there. So she was, 454 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:07,280 and normally I picked those up and I changed them. Yeah. Well, you were hooked on, 455 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:08,640 you were hooked on phonics. 456 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,360 So right now I want to talk a little about the investigation of locating Benjamin Pizzle and 457 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:20,800 Holmes murder castle grounds. On the morning of July 16th, 1895, a nationwide news report went out 458 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:26,000 to the discovery of multiple bodies being found on the murder castle property. The district 459 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:31,920 attorney's office called Momosing prison to let the warden know that Holmes was not to be given 460 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,720 any news of what was found. They explained that they needed this information, but they 461 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:42,880 explained that they needed this information to come as a surprise in order to fluster Holmes 462 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,640 into making a confession. And we know how Holmes can keep his composure so well. So they need 463 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:54,400 something to catch him. Yeah, that makes sense because you hear all the time today that there 464 00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:01,120 are things that are kept out of the news, except for that one little piece that the suspect is, 465 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,120 you know, is holding onto that only they would know. So that makes sense. 466 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:10,960 Yeah. Throughout the original search for Benjamin Pizzle, the authorities and detective Geier were 467 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:16,000 never able to locate him. Detective Geier's discovery of Pizzle's children prompted the 468 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,040 authorities to visit the Holmes building in Inglewood, which as you remember are the suburbs 469 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:26,240 of Chicago. As the investigation continued, authorities discovered that Holmes was not the 470 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:31,520 man he led people to believe. There was speculation that during the world's fair, dozens of people 471 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:37,920 were killed by Holmes, which mostly consisted of young women. Chicago detectives began to take a 472 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:43,920 very close look at Holmes Hotel or quote castle. And this is what they found. The third floor was 473 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:49,760 dedicated to small hotel rooms at homes with rent out to guests who were in town for the world's 474 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:56,160 fair. There were 35 hotel rooms that were located on the second floor. Some rooms were ordinary, 475 00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:02,000 while others had no windows and were fitted with doors that made the rooms airtight. One room on 476 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,760 the second floor contained a vault along with a cutoff valve found in a separate closet. This was 477 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:13,680 later identified as Holmes personal apartment. In Holmes office, they found a bank book belonging 478 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:21,280 to a woman named Lucy Burbank, which had a balance of $23,000. According to records, Lucy could never 479 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:26,800 be located and I myself could not find anything past her name being mentioned. Entering the basement 480 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:33,040 of the murder castle detectives found a vat filled with carboic acid, which homes later confessed 481 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:39,120 that he used to dissolve flesh off a body. That's pretty gross. Well, he's also a scientist too. 482 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:45,280 Remember he loved chemistry, but he also dissected bodies while he was in medical school. So this is 483 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:51,360 not unusual for him. Although the act of doing this itself is not good, but I can see how it 484 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,960 wouldn't phase him too much. There was a second fat that was filled with bleach to whiten the bones. 485 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:02,400 Holmes later admitted to the purpose of these two vats was to prepare bodies to send off to medical 486 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:08,240 schools to use as skeletons. That's what I was just envisioning too. Yeah, me too. And I find it 487 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:13,280 interesting that these bleach to whiten them. It is interesting because I'm thinking, oh, they had 488 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:20,080 bleach back then, but again, progress sign of the times because they had cracker jacks and, and 489 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:26,880 juicy fruit gum. And what was the other one? Redded wheat. That redded wheat. Here is a rundown of 490 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,920 other items that were found in the basement, Deb. Inside the first vat, the detectives found eight 491 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:37,040 ribs and part of a skull. The basement also includes mounds of quick lime, a large kiln, 492 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:42,000 and a dissection table stained with blood. Detectives also found surgical tools and 493 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:46,960 charred hide healed shoes. Articles of clothing were found in walls and pits of ash and quick 494 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,880 lime. Detectives uncovered more mounds of quick lime with body remains, two of which were thought 495 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,160 to be many in Anna Williams. One of the biggest discoveries made in the murder hotel was that 496 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:04,080 footprint impression left on the door of the vault upstairs, which we talked about much earlier. And 497 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:10,080 we believed it to belong to Amaline C. Grand. As the search continued, they found bones believed 498 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:16,400 to be Pearl Connor, who was Julia's daughter, the woman who left Ned the jeweler back in episode one. 499 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:22,080 While searching Holmes hotel authorities also recovered Minnie's watch chain and Nanny's 500 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:28,160 garter buckle in one of the ovens. As for Amaline, police believe that they had come upon her hair 501 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:35,040 and bones. So here is a recap of Holmes assumed victims so far. Julia and her daughter, Pearl 502 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:44,240 Connor in 1891, Amaline C. Grand in 1892, and in 1893, Minnie and Nanny Williams. The bodies of 503 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:50,080 Julia, Amaline and Minnie and Nanny were never found, but rumor had it, Holmes probably sold 504 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:56,400 their cadavers to medical schools. He consistently stated that Julia and Amaline died while undergoing 505 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:04,560 illegal abortions. On September 12th, 1895, a Philadelphia grand jury voted to indict Holmes 506 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:10,640 for the murder of Benjamin Pizzel. The city of Indianapolis, Indiana, indicted Holmes for the 507 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:17,440 murder of Howard Pizzel and Toronto, Canada did the same for the murders of Alice and Nellie Pizzel. 508 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:23,120 At the inquest, a man named Elvet Moorman testified that he helped to set up a large wood 509 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:29,840 stove in a house rented by Holmes. When asked why a wood stove and not gas, Holmes' reply was that 510 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:37,120 it was healthier for children. So there we go, the children must have been around. Oh, yes. Okay. 511 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,680 Because that was the question. Now I'm wondering why it was a wood stove. I mean, what are your 512 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:48,560 thoughts on a wood stove versus gas? Wouldn't gas be hotter or would it? No wood stoves. Gas in one 513 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:55,440 point can be hot, but wood stoves are so hot. I know of homes that don't even have central heating. 514 00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:01,680 Exactly. I have a friend that just built a smaller house and built it without central heating. It's 515 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,960 just a wood stove. If you go on tours of old buildings and they do have something like that 516 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,920 in there or an older house with the wood stove, I've been in those houses. The stove's never been 517 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:18,000 on, but it's just one stove to heat the whole house. So I get it. Okay. Yeah. The owner of an 518 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:24,480 Indianapolis repair shop testified that Holmes had come into his shop on October 3rd, 1894, 519 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,120 with two cases of surgical instruments for sharpening. Holmes picked them up three days 520 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:35,760 later. Okay. So that's a new twist on everything because it didn't seem like he used a lot of 521 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:42,400 tools, but more so the gas is what I'm going back to. So that's very interesting that they were even 522 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:49,360 able to uncover that, but they're detectives. I'm not. Detective Geyer testified that throughout 523 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:54,320 the search of the house in Indiana, authorities discovered human bones while sifting through the 524 00:52:54,320 --> 00:53:00,240 soot. Human teeth and a fragment of jaw was also retrieved. Mrs. Pizzle was summoned and she 525 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:06,720 identified Howard Pizzle's overcoat and scarf pin and a crochet needle belonging to Alice. 526 00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:13,680 As usual, Holmes poured on his charm with both other inmates and the prison staff. He became 527 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:18,960 a model prisoner and his charm gave him extra benefits while in prison. What do you think of 528 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:24,960 that Deb? I don't think that there's much difference between what he was doing outside of prison 529 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,320 versus inside the prison. Once you got that personality and ability to charm people, I don't 530 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:36,000 think that you can turn that off. No. And Holmes, he was allowed to continue wearing his own clothes 531 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:41,760 and not even a prison uniform. He was also allowed to keep his watch and other small belongings. 532 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:47,760 While in prison, he wrote a book on his success in insurance fraud and even wrote prison diaries 533 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:53,520 and memoirs. You can find them through the United States Library of Congress. There you go, Deb, 534 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,840 some extra light reading for you. Oh, I love biographies. I'm not going to say I'm going to 535 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,320 do this one because this was, this is a little intense. I might have to do a nonfiction. 536 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:09,680 On May 7th, 1896, Chicago serial killer H. H. Holmes was hung for the murder of Benjamin Pizzle. 537 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:18,320 So in closing in 2021, director Martin Saccorsi and Leonardo DiCaprio started to work on a television 538 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:24,720 adaption of Eric Larson's book, The Devil in the White City, Murder, Magic and Madness at the Fair 539 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:29,760 that Changed America. This television adaption is currently scheduled to be on Hulu. Yeah, 540 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:35,040 it actually might be there now because if they started it in 2021, surely it's going to be out 541 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:40,400 there already. I'm so excited that we were able to get this in two episodes. Me too. There's just so 542 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:48,720 many details I wanted to touch on, less so on the actual murders and more so it was on the fair. 543 00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:54,960 And his behavior. Yes, and his behavior. Because you don't always get the backstory on their 544 00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:01,360 personalities or interactions. You always get the aftermath of what has happened and then everybody 545 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:07,680 going back to investigate. But it's so cool that you tied in his relationships with people because 546 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:13,600 he was just so cunning and didn't have any second thoughts on who is going to be his next victim. 547 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:20,160 You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. So we're at the end and you haven't shared a teachable moment. 548 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:26,880 Teachable moment. New year homework before checking into a hotel. You might actually need to know 549 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:33,360 if the owner has anything ominous going on. Check the local news to see what's happening 550 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,920 in the neighborhood of where you're checking into a new hotel. Like that. And that's a wrap. 551 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,760 Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, we're going to start talking about teachable moments, 552 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,880 add some music and be done with it. So what's up next, Beth? Do you know? Do we have any idea? 553 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,880 I think I'll look for something in Canada. I think that's a good idea. We did one a couple 554 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,120 weeks ago on Canada. So you all need to listen to that. But let me go ahead and tell you what 555 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:03,360 our social medias are. You can find us at dyingtobefound.com with the spelling just like 556 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:09,200 our logo. And then if you're looking for us on social media, you can find us on Twitter, Instagram 557 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:23,280 and Facebook at dying the number two, the letter B found. And we will talk to you next week. Bye.