Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started today, I just
wanted to mention that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against
animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences
due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Are we still having fun? Yeah. Okay, good. Because I know I am. All right. Well, hello
everyone. This is Deb. And this is Beth. And we want to welcome you to this episode of
Dying to be Found. I just wanted to kind of give a quick little update. I am somewhat
technically savvy, but not 100%. And I wanted to be sure that our listeners know that our
email is dying the number two, the letter B found at gmail.com because I set up an original
email that matched our logo. But for some reason, Google is not verifying me and I don't
know how to verify me. So if anybody knows how to verify me, please email me at dying
to be found with that two in the middle and a B in the middle. And that's all I got to
say. So what's going on, Beth? Well, I was going to ask you that what's going on in your
world this week? I've got a day off today and I'm catching up on all those things that
we don't like to do like insurance and making appointments and things like that. But it's
relaxing. I got to sleep in a little bit. Oh, good. What time was that? No, eight, eight
o'clock. Good. I had the day off today too. And I set my alarm for 5am so I can have a
lot of hours in my day. I just have so much art to work on and girlfriends to visit. Oh,
that's nice. So you went to visit girlfriends today? Yeah. And then I had one in, we were
teaching her a technique for her scrapbooks. So we're all set. Good. I got my hair done.
Oh, and it is so cute. I went for a little different look. I'm sure I'll put it out there
on social media soon because I just put one of our advertisements out there today and
it's slightly different, not too different, but definitely people are going to notice
on tomorrow when I go back to work. Anyways, well, do you want to go ahead and get started
or is there anything else you want to talk about? So today we're going to talk about
H. H. Holmes, one of the first serial killers on record. I'm going to give a very detailed
background that leads up to the events of the story because I really feel this is necessary
to paint a picture of who H. H. Holmes is and how he was perceived in the community.
Do you mind me asking you? I don't, I know the name. I just don't know anything about
you said he was the first serial killer on record. Yes. So is he America? Okay. Is he
the one that coined the term serial killer? Do you know? No, I mean, I don't think he
would have, but is he the reason? I doubt it because this is going back so far. Okay.
To the 1800s. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, I'm excited. Keep going. I'm sorry to interrupt you. That's
okay. Deb and I decided that the story will be in two parts because there is a lot of
information about H. H. Holmes that needs to be told that eventually leads up to his
crimes. We are going to break this down to Holmes young adult life in part one so we
can paint a clear picture of his character. Then we will go into crimes in part two. So
please be patient, but I think you're going to enjoy this. I know I'm going to enjoy this
because I'm intrigued already. I just, I know the name. I just don't know. I can't believe
I gone. I've gone this long without knowing who this person is. Well, I can't believe
I didn't neither. And this was brought up by a coworker at work and they were shocked.
I'd never heard of this gentleman before. So I looked it up and I thought, Oh, I'm going
to buy a book on them and I am going to read and learn. So Herman Webster Mudgett was born
on May 16th, 1861 in Gilmanton, New Hampshire. Spoiler alert. Herman later changed his name
to H. H. Holmes later in life. In the meantime, I referred to him as Herman Mudgett. So much
was born to Levi Horton Mudgett and Theo date, Paige Price, who were two of the first English
immigrants in the area. Herman was a third born child of five children and was considered
to be a mama's boy. Oh, a mama's boy. I had one of those until, until he probably turned
16 or 17 and then he just went on out into the world and I barely see him anymore. But
when he comes over, we have fun. That's nice. I still have a mama's boy. I love that. Maybe
your mama's boy can talk to my not mama's boy. During his childhood, Herman enjoyed
designing scarecrows and motion machines. Okay. Can I stop you there? I'm sorry. I'm
random in case you didn't know that Beth, I'm random. Okay. Have you in the, in the fall,
have you ever driven through a town where they really dress up the town for Halloween
or just for fall festivals coming in? Um, we had a town a couple of years ago where
I was driving through to visit a friend and everywhere I looked, people had all these
scarecrows. How did it tell when I left out in, uh, Nova Scotia, you had that in Nova
Scotia. Yeah. And the town we were in and when they first moved there, it was so cool.
They were even wearing wedding dresses and outfits. Oh yeah. That's so neat. But the
further I drove through town, I just started thinking, wow, this is getting a little creepy
because I was like, Oh, look at that. Look at that one wearing a wedding dress. That
is so cool. And then wait a minute, this is getting creepy. Just a bunch of scarecrows.
I mean, I guess I had to really, I think I went online to see what the deal was with
the scarecrows, but it's a great concept. I think more people need to get back to doing
that. So what is the deal with scarecrows? I don't know. It was just creepy seeing a
bunch of them looking at you when you're driving through town. It's like one of those movies,
you know, where people get lost. Okay. Sorry to interrupt you continue. That's okay. So
it seems that much. It was quite resourceful from the beginning, which continued into his
later years. His personal dream was to marry a local rich girl who could finance his medical
school. Once he reached adulthood, he took on many jobs, such as a teacher, a physician,
a pharmacist, a barber, and a hotel owner. Mudgett grew up with a fascination with a
human skeletal frame and was believed to begin studying medicine because of this. He first
studied medicine in Vermont, then eventually transferred to the university of Michigan
medical school. He was known to work on cadavers on a daily basis during his studies. I have
a story about cadavers. Can I tell it? Yes. Okay. So our other sister was in medical school
years and years ago. I'm talking about when she was first going off to college university
and I used to live close by her. So I would drive to go see her on the weekends and she
was, oh, I don't know. She was so excited about being at medical school and she's like,
oh gosh, let's just go take a tour of the campus. She took me here and there, which
was quite interesting and intriguing because you would see different rooms, you know, when
you go into a doctor's office and they have that skeleton hanging in the room, there were
those hanging in there. And then she was like, okay, this I'm saving the best to last. Anyway,
so we walk into this room and it is full and I mean full. It's, it was just a room full
of cadavers and she was so excited about showing me this room that she was literally flipping
body parts just here and there and flipping back the cavities of the stomach and just
talking to her medical talk. I was horrified. Did you, did you have nightmares after that?
No, but I was just like, oh my gosh. And then somewhere along the way she's like, you should
donate your body to science. Anyways, so I've been in a room full of cadavers.
That's, that's creepy. And here we are having a podcast on creepiness. Yeah, for sure. It
was, it was definitely creepy, but intriguing at the same time. Okay. I'm done. So I'll
just start back with, he was known to work on cadavers on a daily basis with the studies
while attending anatomy lectures three times per week. However, he began to observe some
of these bodies were being donated to science, which were of less than honorable circumstances.
Meaning many of the people who ended up in medical school did not die of natural causes
or came from local cemeteries. Winter classes at school were so busy that all the bodies
were used up. This led Holmes to seeing the value of cadavers for money. Creel little
guy, which would become one of several different money-making schemes that he would become
involved with later in life. Mudgett ultimately learned in medical school that digging up
cadavers could pay for his tuition. So he also earned a reputation of stealing cadavers
from the medical laboratory and even burned, disfigured and planted bodies to look like
they were killed in an accident. That's gross. I know. Okay. That's, that's bizarre. So he's
like using them as Barbie dolls. Yeah. Nice. This, this is guys really creepy. So Mudgett
married a young lady named Clara Loverling in 1878, likely to help pay for his tuition
in medical school. I think there it is. We had mentioned earlier that his intent was
to live off the riches of a wealthy wife. However, Holmes was known to have a violent
temper and in 1884, Clara moved back to New Hampshire where the couple lost touch with
each other. The couple never divorced. They just separated when Clara moved away. Once
separated, Holmes was forced to leave his medical career to teach because he simply
could not afford his own schooling. By 1881, Mudgett was facing substantial financial hardship
and was doing everything he could to survive. He lost his bank. Yeah. So this is where he's
going to move to Chicago in 1884. So I'm going to give you a background to Holmes there.
Okay. So just as a recap though. So he basically, when he was what in his early twenties, he,
he married just like everybody else does. And then he was still going through medical
school. And at that time it turned out that he probably had a couple of little quirks
and like to hang out with the corpses a little bit. Yeah. Okay. So he's moving. Yeah. Okay.
This is an intense story. I mean, I guess I'm trying to think, I'm envisioning back
in the 1800s when I guess when the industrial revolution is coming to town or coming into,
you know, everyday life. So, and I'm just trying to think too with being the 1800s in
medicine, I mean, how much did they really know in comparison to today? But it's interesting
that they had the capacity to have those cadavers. Well, exactly. This is at the same era as
Jack the Ripper. And there was always question if he was actually the Jack the Ripper, but
that wouldn't be possible with him back in the 1800s, having to travel to two countries.
It's just a fib going around that he could be Jack the Ripper. I know who Jack the Ripper
is too, but what was he over in Europe? He was in England. Okay, gotcha. You might have
to do Jack the Ripper too. Yeah. And do some comparison. I just I'm intrigued by the 1800s.
I think I am too. Good. Then it's then it's a date. We'll do that. Okay. About six years
into his separation from Clara, Herman moved to the Chicago area when he was around 25
years old. He had a knack for business at the time and wanted to come to a bigger area
where high rises were being constructed. It was during this period that Herman changed
his name to Henry Howard Holmes or H. H. Holmes when he relocated to Chicago because he was
known as a scam artist and did not want to be exposed for previous scams under his real
name. Here he went to work for a local pharmacy. Going forward will refer to Herman as H. H.
Holmes. Now just a year earlier, Holmes talked with a friend about buying life insurance
and together the two decided that they would find other accomplices who would help to fake
the death of a family of three so that they could cash in on life insurance policy. Why
a family of three? Bigger payout and it's probably what an average family would be back
then. Okay. The man's life would be insured for 40,000 which included his wife and daughter.
What this meant was if the wife and daughter were murdered and husband committed suicide
out of duress, the insurance premium will be paid out to the beneficiary. Holmes and
his accomplice plan to split the insurance on said family members for an equivalent of
$1 million in today's standards. Did they say that they were family members? Were they
trying to make a connection with the insurance company saying that whoever it was that they
were setting up for the insurance, were they saying that they were family members and putting
themselves down as beneficiaries? They were trying to just find anybody right now and
not necessarily, it doesn't have to be family related for Holmes, which we'll later find
out. So his plan never came to fruition because insurance fraud was becoming very popular
during this era and Holmes became worried that they would be caught. Shortly after Holmes
and his partner parted ways and lost touch with one another. Does that mean he actually
had a conscience or he was just afraid of getting caught? Getting caught. Okay. This
man has such an ego, he thinks he's flying in the air. So once he relocated to the Chicago
area, Holmes bought a local pharmacy from the widow of the pharmacist where he was initially
found work. This pharmacy was located in Inglewood, Illinois, which is located about nine miles
or 14 kilometers outside of Chicago. Some say that the death of this pharmacist was
somewhat suspicious and that Holmes had something to do with it. Then soon after he bought the
pharmacy, the widow went missing. Holmes claimed to the people in town that she moved to California
after the death of her husband. I'm sorry, does it sound suspicious that she would move
away if in that era? In that era, it probably was today, not so much, but back then, you
know, there were close knit families and everybody knew everybody's business. True. And they're
probably not as spread out as we are today. Exactly. On January 28th, 1886, Holmes married
Myrda Belknap, despite the fact that he was still married to Clara from his first marriage.
Myrda described Holmes as incredibly loving toward her and their baby Lucy. He always
had to have a pet because he loved animals. Two weeks after marrying Myrda, Holmes petitioned
the courts to divorce Clara. He ended up letting the petition lapse and it was dismissed for
failure to prosecute. I don't understand why he would let it lapse. I don't neither. Well,
he was already married. Maybe that's why, because he was married first. And then if
the divorce went through, he would probably, I don't know, maybe he would have been exposed
for already being married to Myrda. Yeah, that sounds rational. Holmes quickly came
with an elaborate plan to fake his own death so that his marriage to Clara could be dissolved.
Always scheming, isn't he? However, Holmes later found that following through with the
scheme would prove to be difficult. He initially intended to use one of the cadavers from the
medical school as his own body, but he was unable to follow through and life moved on.
That same summer, Holmes Pharmacy's business continued to do very well in Inglewood. As
I mentioned earlier, Holmes had a knack for business. So it was no surprise that he had
been eyeing a vacant lot across the street from the pharmacy for a very long time. He
eventually purchased the lot under a false name of H.S. Campbell and soon began sketching
out plans for what would come later. In 1889, Holmes designed a three story hotel with the
intent to accommodate visitors for public events coming soon to this area. Holmes balanced
the construction of his hotel with successful pharmacy business. Since he had a background
in medicine, he was living what he could be considered as a very comfortable life. He
was flirtatious with female customers who came to his shop. They would ask to speak
with Holmes directly. Now remember, Holmes was married to Murda at this time. Murda thought
her husband's behavior was cute at first, but as soon became very jealous and lonely.
Watching my husband flirt with a bunch of other women would be cute in the least. I
know. Could you imagine? Maybe, well, maybe she was kind of proud thinking she had a real
catch there. True, because he was a pharmacist and he was, he was building the hotel. So
obviously he was well off in the community, right? Yeah. And Holmes was very, he was a
very elegant man in a lot of people's eyes and everybody had him on a pedestal at times.
This is a man that really took over the city and very pleasant personality. So Holmes planned
out his building without consulting an architect. He wanted the first floor to be retail space
so he could generate income and also bring in as many women to the area as possible.
He started a woman's placement agency to support the movement of women going to work. Eventually
he opened a new pharmacy on the first floor after selling off his first pharmacy. The
second and third floors were designed to be apartments. And this is where Holmes took
up his own residence. He built a large office overlooking the corner of 63rd and Wallace,
which was important because it was announced that the world's Columbian fair would take
place in Inglewood. Holmes building would eventually be just a short streetcar ride
from the end of 63rd. So a lot of people would be on the path just to get to his hotel. You
know, I know we talked about Downton Abbey in the past. There was another show. This
is reminding me of that time, that time period, Mr. Selfridge. Have you ever seen that one?
No. Okay. He's the guy that actually came up with the term, the customers always right.
Really? Yeah. And it's one of those PBS specials. You all, if you don't watch PBS specials,
they're amazing, but it's just a part of history. His name is Mr. Selfridge and he opened, he
was an American that moved over to Europe and really started the retail business over
there. Kind of like the size of a department store like Sears or JC Penney of its time.
Right. But he coined, he coined the phrase, the customer is always right. I would definitely
recommend that. So Holmes kind of sounds kind of like the same way as far as an entrepreneur
and how he is, you know, started. That's a really good concept for retail space on the
bottom floor. And think about how people are, or how communities are being developed today.
I don't know if you have that in your community where you live, but I see a bunch of residential
slash retail neighborhoods going up where you've got either townhouses in the same area
as little mini malls. Have you seen those? Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. So this
is pretty revolutionary with his time. It was. Details of his new pharmacy blueprints
gave Holmes the most pleasure. Drawings included a wooden chute that went from a secret location
on the second floor all the way to the basement. In the next room, Holmes also designed a large
walk-in vault with airtight seams and asbestos coated iron walls. Inside a closet, he would
be able to control a gas jet into this vault and throughout the entire building. The large
basement had hidden chambers and the sub basement will be stored for his precious goods. What
kind of precious goods? We'll see. Okay. In 1889, Holmes finally had his hotel designed
the way he wanted it. And it was time to break ground to begin construction. Although he
had plenty of money, he paid his workers so poorly that construction workers on the castle
project would either quit or be fired. This suited Holmes, which could have been his intention
in the first place so that no one would know his full intent of the architectural design
of what would later be referred to as his murder castle. He deliberately had different
tradesmen build separate parts of his hotel so no one knew he was building a murder hotel.
The hotel layout was designed to secret passages so that when Holmes brought people into his
office, he could take them undetected to the chute located in a private bedroom. He would
place the bodies through a trap door, which disposed of the body below. Then he dragged
the body to the dissection lab. At the far end of the lab, he had another trap door to
drop the body into. Holmes would then go back to his private bathroom and enter a secret
stairway to where the body lay on a platform. I know they didn't, did they have elevators
back then? No. Okay. So he's, they must have because they have high rises. Oh yeah. So
it sounds to me like he's just going up and down and up and down and up and down. He's
getting a great workout. Okay. And then I guess too, while you're, while you're talking
about this, I'm curious to know where in the world is his mindset because he's talking,
he built a hotel to be a murderous hotel. And then he's, he's designed it so that he
could drag people and drop them through all these trap doors. That was his intention.
That's why he liked to have it right on that corner, right near where the fair was going
to be. I thought he was, okay, I'm sorry. I know he's a serial killer, but how in the
world does he function? Because he has got the community. So what's the word I'm looking
for? Wrapped around their finger. Yeah. And nobody's the wiser. That's crazy. It gets
crazier. Okay. Keep going. Where am I starting now? I don't know. This is intriguing. I talked
about drop the corpse into the basement. Okay. Some rooms were specifically designed to be
killing rooms. Guess who stayed in the hotel said that its design was confusing and felt
somewhat like a maze. Tom's eventually completed construction of his hotel in 1891 and began
advertising in the local newspapers for women to come to work for him. However, one of the
conditions at home made upon employment was that anyone who worked for him was required
to carry a life insurance policy. What do you think about that? Okay. That's fishy.
I mean, I get it. I have life insurance through my work, but it's, you know, I know sign of
the times and how things change over the decades and centuries, but requirement upon working
with somebody is to get a life insurance policy. Yeah, that's wrong on all fronts. It's a big
red flag to me. He agreed to pay the premiums as long as his employees listed him as the
beneficiary. These conditions also applied to any guests that stayed at his hotel. Eventually,
if you haven't guessed yet, many have had his guests and homes acquaintances would vanish.
I'm sorry. I'm perplexed. Anybody that came to work for him had to have a life insurance
policy and he was supposed to be listed as the beneficiary. Exactly. I know when I get
on an airplane, you have an option to get travel insurance with beneficiaries that,
you know, in case I'm up in the plane and it comes down while I'm flying, right? But
to go stay in a hotel and get life insurance. It's kind of funny in a way, but it's not.
I'm just like, if I were a guest, I would be questioning that. Why are you forcing me
to get life insurance? Is there something I need to know? Exactly. Holmes was very crafty
and he had a knack for whining and dining, not only the woman around town, but also any
gentlemen that he owed money to. Remember, Holmes was a con artist before he ended up
in Inglewood. He was always charming and never lost his temper. Despite that fact, he was
known to be a violent man with his first wife, Clara. Most of his major purchases were made
on credit, but he had no intention of ever paying what he owed. In fact, Holmes was so
arrogant that he didn't think he would ever be prosecuted. Whenever a creditor came to
collect money for his debts, Holmes directed them to H.S. Campbell, a fictitious name
that Holmes created for himself. He would whine and dine the debt collectors so that
after parting ways, the amount he owed would never actually be collected. It was estimated
that Holmes owed $200,000 on his credit lines, but he was crafty and always had many more
money schemes in the works that he would constantly try to collect money on. He's always scheming
for sure. Too many schemes for one man. In November 1890, officials decided that the
next World's Columbian Exposition or World's Fair would be built in Jackson Park in Chicago,
which caught Holmes' attention. It was at this time that he decided to turn his building
into a hotel because he knew he would have a lot of people coming and going because of
this fair when it came to town in 1893. So the park is where they were building the World's
Fair or correct? Do you know Central Park in New York City? Did you know that the architect
for Central Park in New York was the one that also designed this Jackson Park? No. Yeah.
I mean, I've been to Central Park. I had no idea it was as big as it is. You see it on
TV, but you don't think it's that big. You actually could take a horse and carriage ride
around the whole park and it take you a while. I've never seen Jackson Park, so I'd be interested
to see that one. Yeah. Jackson Park, I was just thinking a small park, but now that you
mentioned it would have to be large to hold a fair. And if he designed the Central Park,
then he would want to design another park in that area of the States to accommodate
lots of people and greenery. Oh yeah. First, Holmes relied on the fact that people would
come to Chicago from all over the world. Second, he considered this was a prime opportunity
to offer lodging near the fair, most especially to women and that he could easily seduce.
While he was creating this plan, Holmes bought a fire insurance policy on his hotel because
he fully intended to burn that hotel once the fair closed so that he could collect the
insurance money. It would also cover up any evidence that might have been left behind.
After all, Holmes was a scam artist, but was in fact planning for something much more ominous.
Early in 1891, Holmes started redesigning his hotel and again hiring and firing workers
that were none the wiser. Holmes did not worry that the police station was situated in the
Wentworth district, which was just outside of Chicago. He was on a friendly terms with
a local policeman and knew each one of them by name. Occasionally, Holmes would even treat
them to a free dinner or coffee from his restaurant, which kept the police friendly with Holmes
and even protective of them. That same year, a drifter by the name of Ned
Connor landed in Chicago with his wife and eight-year-old child in the hopes to find
work as a jeweler. Ned eventually occupied a jewelry counter on one wall of Holmes' pharmacy,
adding to its profitability. Ned's wife, Julia, was hired by Holmes to keep the books for
his pharmacy, while Ned's 18-year-old sister, Gertrude, eventually followed her brother
to town and Holmes hired her to manage his mail order medicine business. Holmes' intent
to accommodate Ned with his family was to eventually kill the entire family.
So there you go. There is a family that would be suitable for his purposes.
Yeah. He likes to go for the whole family, doesn't he?
Yes. You were talking about the family of three,
I guess, the start of this, where he chickened out because he was afraid he was going to
get caught. Yeah.
Yeah. Interesting. And true to his nature, Holmes was extremely
attentive to both Julia and Gertrude, which for obvious reasons made Ned uncomfortable.
Julia and Gertrude, however, were quite smitten with Holmes and Ned was becoming increasingly
jealous for good reason though, because in 1891, Julia left Ned to be with Holmes.
What? Yeah. And get this. She even became pregnant
and demanded that Holmes marry her. Now remember, Holmes was already married to not one, but
two women. Only Julia was not aware of any of this when she demanded to get married.
However, Holmes was very sympathetic toward her and agreed to get married if she let him
perform an abortion. Why? I'm confused. So he's, okay, is he, is
he trying to smooth talk her and say, sure, we'll get married. Why would he? I don't know
how to respond to this, Beth. This is his mindset is just so, oh, he's calculating.
Cause I don't understand why he would tell her he wants her to get an abortion if he
agrees to marry her. But it sounds to me too, that she's a little demanding.
Yeah. And he obviously doesn't want children. He doesn't want to be tied down. That's the
thing there. I'm glad you brought that up because earlier
you talked about him, I guess it was at Murda that he was married to and they had a little
baby named Lucy. At some point, did you in your readings find anything about how good
of a father he was? No, they never talked about him as being
a father at all. Interesting. Yeah. They just skimmed on that.
Okay. Keep going. This is good. Yeah. This procedure was to take place on Christmas Eve
and on that night, Julia tucked her daughter Pearl into bed. Come Christmas Eve, Holmes
was very happy and wished Julia a Merry Christmas before leading her to the second floor of
the hotel and into a room specifically prepared for the abortion.
Holmes made Julia as comfortable as possible. And when she was settled and relaxed, it is
said that he covered her face with a rag soaked in chloroform and Julia closed her eyes for
the very last time on Christmas day. Other stories say that this was a case of
a watched abortion, but regardless, Holmes later confessed that Julia's death was intentional.
On Christmas morning, Julia's friends, the crows were waiting eagerly for their arrival
of Julia and Pearl. They waited as long as they could, but by 10 30, they left for the
day and arrived back very late into the evening. What happened to Pearl?
I don't think anybody ever knows. Okay.
However, there was no sign of Julia and Pearl. Presents were not touched and when asked where
they were, Holmes replied that they left for their trip to Davenport earlier than expected.
She and Pearl were never seen again. It was later revealed that Pearl was poisoned because
she was old enough to witness her mother going missing and Holmes needed her to be quiet.
Now that's quite sad, isn't it? Yeah.
However, there was no sign of Julia and Pearl. Presents were not touched and when asked where
they were, Holmes replied that they left for their trip to Davenport earlier than expected.
Some reports also state that Holmes may have had an accomplice in this case, but nothing
is confirmed. Holmes allegedly planned to adopt Pearl out to another couple, but Pearl
would have easily said something array. So Holmes took care of her himself.
Now while you were talking, I'm intrigued because it seems like he tells a lot of people
that anybody he's associated with is out of town. So, I mean, magically people just leave
to go out of town. The pharmacist who left town because her husband died and now Pearl
and her mother left town. Were they going out of town for a visit?
He never mentions. He just likes to use that out of town.
Okay. Because too, Clara and Murda left town too. Did he do something to them that I'm
going to find out in just a little bit? We'll see.
Okay. That's because he keeps, okay. I'm keep going, Beth. This is great. I'm just like,
my mind is going in so many different directions with this story.
I'm sure you have a lot of questions and hopefully I can answer them. Just after Christmas, Holmes
invited one of his associates, Charles Chappell, to come to work for him because Chappell was
a master at stripping down human flesh and reassembling it so the skeleton bones could
be displayed in doctor's offices. Chappell learned the skill while working at Cook County
Hospital for the needs of the medical students. As I mentioned earlier, bodies were highly
sought after at this time because at the height of their popularity, grave robbing was very
popular and became a high profitable industry. Now, are you talking about how he's assembling
like the skeleton like I was telling you when Cathy took me into the, I'm going to call
it a morgue. Yes, exactly. And they hang in doctor's offices.
Yeah. Well, back then they were real human skeletons.
Wow. Okay. And this guy did this for a living.
Yes. Wow. When Chappell arrived, Holmes showed Charles
Chappell his second floor room containing a table, instruments, and solvents. Chappell
didn't bat an eye because obviously he had a medical background and so did Holmes. When
Chappell saw a woman on the table looking like a skinned rabbit, he didn't think twice
because he knew Holmes was a doctor. Holmes told Chappell that he was keeping up with
his medical practice and was performing some dissection, but now he was finished. He then
offered Chappell $26 to fully clean off the body and just leave the skeleton for Holmes.
Soon after Holmes ended up selling the skeleton for $26, he invested into Chappell services.
Now I have a story about, I mentioned about the skinned rabbit. Did you know that dad
did a lot of picking up and shooting of rabbits for food?
You know, you're saying when he was growing up?
Yeah. Yeah. I do remember hearing stories that he
used to have to go rabbit hunting. Yeah. And I just love, this is so inventive.
He's a comic when you listen to his stories, what he did was he would hang up his rabbits
to dry. I don't know the process. I guess they have to dry so many hours and they kept
disappearing on them. So then he once hung up a rabbit and he made sure that he told
people that he had a cat was missing from the clothesline.
Wait, was somebody in the neighborhood taking his rabbits to eat?
Yeah. Yeah.
I bet that stopped, didn't it?
It did.
Oh my gosh.
I loved hearing his stories.
Oh man. No, I do know he liked to hunt turtles.
Yes. I remember going snapping turtle catching with them.
I never got to eat the soup.
It was good.
I'll never know. But I do remember, did he have you? Okay, you all, I don't know if you
know how big these snapping turtles are, but when you're little they're humongous.
Yes, I remember it to be giganticus, like four feet wide.
But we were tiny back then.
Yeah. The smaller you are, the bigger things look, right? Did you have to hold the shoe
or was that just Cathy?
I think we both did.
I know he actually protected me from that. I never, you all, I'm so glad I never had
to do this, but I do know the stories because, and I was never allowed near this situation.
Our dad used to go snapping turtle hunting and he would bring those, the turtles home
and make soup out of it. Well, what do you have to do to prepare a snapping turtle?
You had to, well, my sisters, Beth and Cathy, used to have to get a little white tennis
shoe and just stick their hands out so that the snapping turtle would reach out and snap
the shoe. Did it ever snap out of your hands, Beth?
No, but I remember dad says buck up.
He said buck up to you as he is bringing it in.
Because we were being skirmish and he didn't like that.
Because you were witnessing the, what happened when the, when the turtle reached out its
neck to grab the shoe, which would be when the axe came down.
Yes.
And dad was a pretty good shot there.
Yes. I still have 10 fingers.
10 fingers and 10 toes. That's good.
I'm glad I was sheltered from that man.
Man, you were pretty young back then. So, oh wow.
In mid January, 1892, a new family by the name of Doyle moved into Julia's apartment
in Holmes's building. As the family began settling into the apartment, they noticed
dishes on the table and Pearl's sweater draped over a chair.
Of course, the Doyles were none the wiser, but it did appear that the apartment was not
yet vacant. Holmes quickly apologized for the mess and
stated that Julia's sister got sick. So she and her daughter, Pearl left for a train station
rather quickly. Then he soon found out that they would not
be returning to the hotel for their belongings because they were well taken care of at their
destination. Later, Holmes had another story about disappearance
of Julia and Pearl, where he stated that he saw Julia around January 1st when he collected
her rent and that Julia told him, as well as others, that she and Pearl were leaving
to avoid her husband Ned. He was collecting rent from her, but they
were supposed to be getting married, right? Yes.
So they were not living together just yet? It must not have been.
Probably not. Not yet.
No. I find the book is so detailed that it just touches on subjects here and there and
it doesn't give you a lot of information. And we have a 30 minute podcast, so that's
all we can fit into, right? Keep going.
Okay. Where do I start?
Holmes also denied that any affair took place between himself and Julia and also noted that
Julia had a hot temper. Other people who knew her would say differently.
Keep in mind that we are building some of this storyline to later events. So some of
the names that we are bringing up will play out later in part two.
In the spring of 1892, Holmes' assistant, Benjamin Pitezel, was in the city of Dwight,
Illinois, about 75 miles or 120 kilometers southwest of Chicago. Pitezel was closely
associated with Holmes through many of the scams that took place before Holmes moved
to Chicago. At this time, he was taking the cure for alcoholism at the Keeley Institute.
This cure solution was a secret, but chemists were able to figure out that the solution
created a state of euphoria, sedation, and amnesia. Eventually, Holmes recreated his
own cure and opened the Silver Ash Institute, which he established inside the castle he
built. This institute was also later used to continue on with Holmes' mail order pharmaceuticals
business. So Pitezel returned to Inglewood and told Holmes that he met a beautiful woman
named Emmeline Seagrand. Emmeline was 24 years old, a blonde, and since 1891 worked in the
office of Dr. Keeley. Holmes immediately became intrigued with a hold of Emmeline, offering
her double what she was making in wages to work for him. Emmeline quickly accepted the
offer and moved to Chicago with $800 in savings. Once she arrived, Emmeline moved into an apartment
near Holmes' building. Of course, Holmes put on his charm and bought her a bicycle
to draw her in. They often took bicycle rides together and rode to the construction site
where Holmes' building was being constructed. This building is going on and on, isn't it?
Oh, it took forever. One day, Ned Connor went to Holmes' office where he met Emmeline. He
was angry and wanted to talk to Holmes about a problem with a mortgage. Emmeline was the
one to greet him, and he couldn't help but notice the way Emmeline talked to Ned about
Holmes. Ned later said he could tell Emmeline was extremely fond of Holmes just by the look
in her eyes when his name was brought up. Ned recalled telling Emmeline that Holmes
was bad for her and that she should get away as soon as possible. But of course, Emmeline
ignored his advice.
Isn't Ned the one that was married to Julia?
You know what? He's got so many women, I'm confused.
Okay, I'm just coming in to talk about the mortgage. While you were talking, I was thinking
he was probably the one that Julia left him to go be with Holmes. Okay, yeah, there's
a lot of women, lots of them.
On May 1st, 1892, a doctor named M. B. Lawrence and his wife moved into a five-room apartment
in Holmes' building. The Lawrences often saw Emmeline and Holmes together, and soon Lawrence
could also tell this was not just a working relationship. As it turned out, Emmeline was
deeply in love with Holmes because she considered him to have so many good qualities. According
to Emmeline, Holmes was even the son of an English lord, for whom Holmes swore to her
secrecy when he disclosed this to her. Emmeline could not help herself and eventually told
her friends about Holmes' family line and in turn swore them to secrecy, just like she
was.
You know, this is like a harlequin romance, isn't it?
It is.
There's a lot going on here.
Yes, and it was very confusing trying to put everything together for this podcast.
You're doing a great job. That's just so intriguing with the storyline here.
Yes, it really is an intriguing story. Emmeline was a kind and outgoing woman. She made many
friends and kept in touch with her family and friends in Indiana. In October 2nd, cousins
Dr. and Mrs. B.J. Seagrand visited Emmeline when he was researching some family history
on the Seagrands. They did not meet Emmeline before this time, but when they did meet,
Dr. Seagrand was charmed by her pleasing manners. He later said she was a wonderful woman, physically
being tall and a lot of blonde hair. What is it with men and blonde hair?
Blondes have more fun.
Okay, sorry, go ahead.
When Emmeline took the Seagrands on a tour of Holmes' building, she told them there was
an effort to transform the building into a hotel for the World's Fair exhibition guests.
Dr. Seagrand never met Holmes on this visit, but they heard a lot of grand stories of Holmes
from Emmeline. She told of Holmes' charm, generosity, and how business savvy he was.
Soon after Seagrand's visit, Holmes asked Emmeline to marry him and she accepted. He
promised her a honeymoon in Europe and a visit to his father, the Lord.
Emmeline left for Holmes' building in Inglewood on the first day of December 1892. She stopped
in at the Lawrence's to give them an early Christmas present because she was going to
Indiana to spend Christmas with her family. For some reason, Mrs. Lawrence had the feeling
that this would be the last time she would see Emmeline and asked if she was planning
to go away for good. And Emmeline answered, maybe. The question was, did she finally learn
things about Holmes, such as putting things on credit with no intentions of paying debt?
Now, was Mrs. Lawrence the wife of the doctor that came to town, living in that five bedroom
or that five room rental in the building? So they were just acquaintances, right?
Just acquaintances. Okay. I was trying to connect the relationship
here. There was a question as to whether or not
Holmes spent Emmeline's $800 savings. Emmeline never said goodbye to the Lawrence's. Her
visits simply stopped. Mrs. Lawrence asked Holmes about Emmeline's whereabouts three
times where he provided a different version of events every time. The last excuse was
that Holmes was sworn to secrecy and wasn't to tell anyone he and she were getting married
or moving to Europe. Were they going to get married and go to Europe
together or getting married to another man? Yes. She was going to get married to another
man. Okay. I got you. Holmes is telling the Lawrence's
that she was getting married to another man in Europe. So he's sending another woman away.
Exactly. Holmes even presented what appeared to be a wedding invitation. Mrs. Lawrence
questioned whether the invitation was even valid because it was not professionally printed
like everyone seemed to be doing at this point in time.
So it was like he received a wedding invitation to Emmeline's wedding to another man.
Yes. More than likely he's the one that drew it up because it did look so fake and he was
running out of excuses. Basically, he told her that when she went to Europe, nobody ever
heard from her again. That was easy to say back in the 1800s.
Yeah, I guess it was. I mean, I'm really curious about his first two wives. I might be doing
a little bit of research before part two. Oh, interesting. Yes, I'd like to hear that.
Mrs. Lawrence wouldn't let things go regarding Emmeline's disappearance. She said that the
day after the disappearance, Holmes office door was kept locked and no one entered except
Holmes himself. Mrs. Lawrence would later say that about at 7pm, two gentlemen were
asked to take a trunk out of Holmes office and carry it outside where an express wagon
took the trunk away. He was a nosy neighbor. She was, but in this case, it's good to be
nosy. Yeah, you everybody needs a nosy one nosy neighbor, not a bunch, but just at least
one. Yeah, then they know your comings and goings for your welfare. Three years later,
something was discovered by police, which was described as a phenomenon. How do you
pronounce that? Phenomenon. Here she is. All right, I'll help you with that one. You've
helped me in the past. It's phenomenon. So I tried so hard. All right. Something was
described as a phenomenon. Yeah, and it would defy scientific explanation. Somehow a small
footprint thought to be that of a woman's foot was deeply etched into the door of the
room with the vault in the murder castle. There were details of the footprints trying
to be rubbed off by hand, then with soap and water, but still the footprint remained clear
as ever. No one could explain this mystery. The only theory that the police could come
up with was that Holmes was known to have an avid interest in chemistry. Their theory
was that Emmaline had stepped in acid, placed her feet against the door and etched her footprint
into the vault's door about two feet from the floor. Something peculiar occurred in
this room-sized vault, but Holmes never confessed to anything. Emmaline's parents did not receive
any more mail from her, even though it was common for her to write to them two or three
times a week. Emmaline's parents never imagined that she could have been harmed, but rather
that she died in Europe where Holmes said she moved to. On March 16th, 1893, Peter Seagrand,
Emmaline's father wrote to Holmes asking Holmes about the whereabouts of his daughter, but
never got a reply back. On the other hand, Holmes was confident that everything was kosher.
Emmaline was carefully disposed of and now he could focus of his enterprises. At this
point, Holmes owned part of a legitimate company that produced a machine for duplicating documents.
That like a Xerox machine? Yeah. He didn't know it was that old. I know. This story comes
out with so many small tidbits. It blows the mind. You're going to find out a lot in part
too about these funny tidbits. So Holmes also owned a lucrative business that sold mail
order pharmaceuticals. Kind of like Amazon today. He was quite resourceful. Yes, he was.
And he also started an alcohol treatment center called the Silver Ash Institute. And he collected
rent from his tenants. Definitely business savvy for sure. I mean, a really good entrepreneurial
mind if he just left it at that, you know? Yep. Although Holmes continued to spend a
lot of time preparing his hotel for the World Fair guests, he began to think that his time
in Chicago would soon be over because Mrs. Lawrence kept questioning Holmes about the
whereabouts of Emmaline. Holmes would give different accounts each time she asked, yet
Mrs. Lawrence was still not convinced that Emmaline was not in danger. After all, she
had that feeling we mentioned earlier, that she would never see Emmaline again. Around
the same time, Holmes needed a new stenographer and typist and hired a woman by the name of
Minnie Williams. Holmes met her on a trip to Boston. Minnie was perfect for Holmes.
She was plain, short, and on the heavy side. She was described as having a masculine nose,
thick, dark eyebrows, and almost no neck at all. What does that sound like? Well, you
have a neck. I do. But you have bushy eyebrows. I do. Well, not anymore. I have since known
to go and get those waxed. But I do have the family curse of dark, thick eyebrows for sure.
Yes, you do. This is funny. I'm almost out of eyebrows. They're almost off. You know
what's bad? I'm starting to see gray in my eyebrows. Not me. I don't have gray hair.
I just have gray in my dark eyebrows. Baby sister. Minnie was far unlike the women that
Holmes had previously hired. She had an estate valued at $50,000, which is about $1.5 million
today. Eventually, Holmes won Minnie over as he was known to do with many other women
and she fell madly in love with him. When he asked to marry him, she didn't hesitate
to say yes. Holmes promised a lavish life and children with Minnie, but first he convinced
her to transfer the deed of her Fort Worth land to a man named Alexander Bond. Bond in
turn signed the deed over to Benton T. Lyman. Minnie did not know that Bond was just another
alias for Holmes or that Lyman was an assistant of Holmes. Nor did she know that he was still
married to other women. In the meantime, Holmes and Minnie married at a private ceremony where
only she, Holmes, and the preacher were present. Holmes arranged everything, but there was
no record of their marriage entered into the marriage registry of Cook County, Illinois.
It was a fake wedding? I would guess so. Would it have been even a real preacher? Maybe one
of his friends. Yeah, I think you're right on that. I'm also wondering what's the timeline
on all these courtships that he's got going on. My gosh, it seems like as soon as he meets
a woman, he falls instantaneously in love. Yeah, or they do anyway. Yeah, he's a charmer.
For sure. Okay, so from 1889 to 1891 is when he's constructing his hotel. So it seems,
okay, so the fair's not even here yet. No. And that's only two years time. So he's got
these women who are smitten with him. And he's just a smooth talker in that short period of time. So
I mean, I don't know why people in the community would not be a little bit more vocal about how
many relationships this guy's in. Yeah, he's a good businessman, and he's a charming man around town.
But I don't know, I'm sure they had their suspicions, but they had lives too, you know what I mean?
Exactly. So I think now is a good time to stop part one. I really wanted to go through the names
and relationships that Holmes was involved in, because we will dig deeper into these people in
part two. But here is what we know so far. One, Holmes was a known con man who moved to Chicago
to escape this reputation, but continue to use women and plot more sinister things when the
World's Fair came to town. Two, Holmes went under several aliases to swindle men and women out of
money, which left it almost impossible to collect his debt or connect him with fraud. Three, Holmes
was married to multiple women who either left him or disappeared, leaving people suspicious of his
accounts of his whereabouts. Four, Holmes could have easily continued running his lucrative business
ventures and collecting rent on both his rental, retail, and residential space in the castle. But
then again, he had the mind of a killer. And lastly, Holmes went on to use the World's Fair as a
backdrop to his murderous schemes, which we will talk about in part two. How did you get through
this book, Beth? That is a lot of information. It is. I can't wait for part two. When I finished
the book, I had 18 tight pages. Oh, wow. Had to be condensed from there. Well, now I know that we
have a part two that completely makes sense. I mean, that was, I guess, a really good synopsis on
his personality and he's just fitting right in to society, or at least we think he is.
Well, if you walk away with all that knowledge, then you'll, then you'll understand why people
are so in tune with his mannerisms, his gentlemanness of winning over women and just what a kind fellow
he was, because that's what he wanted to show. Now you said earlier too, when he was married to
Murda that he loved animals and he always had to have a pet. Where did he turn? That's my big
question. If he was doing so well and he was a successful entrepreneur in the community,
what in the world set him off to be the person that he turned out to be? I can't wait. That's a question that we can
never get from any of these people who are murderers and thieves and robbers and they just maybe don't
have a conscience. Yeah, I guess that would probably be it and that's what it boils down to. Well, I
can't wait for part two. Yeah, before we go, do you have a teachable moment for us? A teachable moment?
No, I don't have a teachable moment right now. I'm not prepared for that. I meant to look one up, but
I really got to get these teachable moments down, don't I? I said I was going to have them and I'm
not consistent, so I will do my best for next time. No, no teachable moment. How about you? Do you have one?
No, I just finished talking. You're a good storyteller. Wow, I just, wow, that's, yeah,
I'm intrigued. I don't have anything else. If you don't have anything else, I guess we're done with part one.
That's a wrap! That is a wrap, but before we wrap, let's give them our social media sites. I'd like to send
everybody to DyingToBeFound.com, which is spelled just like you see on our logo, because that's where
you can click on to all of our links for social media and we are out there on pretty much all of
the podcasts at this point, so wherever you are, then you can find us on the podcast screen under
True Crime, but I appreciate you guys hanging with us on this episode. It was Beth, you did a great job
and again, you're a great storyteller and I really can't wait till next week when I hear part two.
Yeah, that is a wrap!
you