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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started today, I just

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wanted to mention that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against

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animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences

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due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Deb and I'm Beth and welcome to Dying to be Found. Beth, how are you doing

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today or how are you feeling about this podcast? I'm really getting excited. I finally finished

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some of my research that I've been doing and I hope to be the host in a couple of weeks.

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Absolutely. I am looking forward to that. Let's turn the tables there and I know I'm

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excited because you have a story and I've heard of the person. I just don't know anything

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about the person so I can't wait to hear that story. It's a good one. There's so much I

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want to cover. I can't wait. I really can't wait. This is exciting. So how's your week

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going Deb? Oh gosh, it's going really good. I have been telling some people about a situation.

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You know what the term getting back on the horse means, right? Yes. So at Christmas time,

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my husband decided that he wanted me to go out and buy a dirt bike because he's been

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riding Hardleys for all of his entire life, right? And he thinks it's a good idea for

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me to go ahead and just pick up a motorcycle and think I can drive it around. No, I have

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not been on a motorcycle my entire life so I don't know what I'm doing. But he did talk

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me into buying a little dirt bike and I thought, okay, I can do this. So my son came over for

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the day and we are in the driveway and he is showing me a couple things on what to do.

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Cory goes out and rides the bike for a bit and then he comes back. So it was my turn,

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right? So I get on the bike and I am doing just fine. I take a left out of the driveway.

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I go up the hill. I come back, turn around and at that point in time, Beth, I'm thinking

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freedom. This is feeling good. I am feeling good. Okay, I'm going to pass the driveway.

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So I wait, I went, I kept going. And then the next thing you know, I come up to the

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road to turn around and I, I don't know if I forgot to break or I excelled, but I ended

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up doing a little bit of a topsy-turny and falling off the first time I ever got on the

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dirt bike. Oh, that's, I'm really sorry to hear that. Well, no worries. I just couldn't

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get my nails done for about a month and I'm all, I'm all healed up. But guess what? What?

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I got back on that horse this weekend. So how did it go? It went very well. This time

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we did like I wanted to, to begin with, let's go to an open field. That's completely flat

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and give the, give the little dirt bike a whirl. So I ended up just, I don't know, driving

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in circles for no joke, probably about an hour and just went around in circles. And

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then John was like, stop going in that direction. You need to turn around and go in the opposite

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direction. Kind of like unwind, right? Yes. And so I decided that, okay, I'll, I'll give

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it a try. And I did that for a little while, but then I ended up doing like a crazy eight.

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You just go in the shape of an eight. So I was getting all the best of both worlds of

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turning to the left and turning to the right. And I didn't even fall down this time. I'm

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proud of me. Yeah, me too. So you know, on Facebook, John has it listed as he'll talk

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about his wife and the motorcycle. It's a little, it's a little mini dirt bike as in

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I thought it was a huge honkin thing. The way he talks about it. That's awesome. No,

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I'm not that good, but no, do you know what the brand, I don't, I'm not going to say the

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brand because they're not sponsoring us right now, but maybe you will. Do you go camping?

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I used to. So there's a particular brand that a lot of people take with them as far as supplies.

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Yeah. This company makes a little mini dirt bike. Oh, that's cool. It's a pole start like

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a lawnmower. So no, it's not road ready. Oh my gosh. So yeah, that's what I did last weekend

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and I'm proud of me because I didn't fall down this time. Yeah. You can wear those,

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one of those big Sumo suits, you know, that and then drive that. And then when you fall,

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it just bounce right back up. Yep. So that's what I did. So do you want to get started?

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Yeah. Okay. So let's see today. We are going to talk about the beltway snipers, also known

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as the Washington DC snipers. And I know we were just talking a little while ago about

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the possibility of if you've heard this one or not, and we decided that you did because

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I'm assuming that it's international news at this point, especially because of the storyline.

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So I just kind of wanted to start it off by letting you know that for 23 days between

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October 2nd and October 24th of 2002, the Maryland DC and Virginia areas were terrorized

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by unknown snipers who randomly shot people as they went about their day. And these incidents

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were referred to as both the Washington DC and the beltway sniper attack. Random acts

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of violence occurred throughout that region with people like you and me. So basically

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somebody was on the attack of snipers. They were shooting at people. Basically when people

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were mowing their grass, they went out shopping, they pumped gas, going out to dinner, even

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a school bus driver who was idling his bus, probably waiting for a certain time to go

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pick up the students, even he was shot and somebody was even just reading a book. So

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yeah, it was just random. There was no rhyme or reason whatsoever to this situation. So

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imagine, I don't know if you remember seeing this on the news, I just know there was a

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lot of people just scared because you couldn't do anything without wondering if something

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was going to happen to you today. As a matter of fact, one of the victims was an FBI intelligence

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analyst and her name was Linda Franklin. She was shot just from leaving a home improvement

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store with her husband. She was out shopping for the day. That's sad. Yeah. I make a point

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of watching the American news every night because I hear and I see the Canadian news

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a lot that I like to know what's going on in the States because I know a lot of times

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it affects what goes on in Canada. Most definitely. So Montgomery County in Maryland headed up

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all the all the investigations, but they also called in the FBI pretty quickly because this

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thing escalated very quickly. Now, when I'm talking about this, I will say that it doesn't

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seem like it escalated, but once the the people that were involved with this hit the DC area,

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everything just kind of imploded. You know what I mean? Yes. So more than 400 FBI agents

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were assigned to the case. They set up a hotline so people could call in tips. Expert agents

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began analyzing behavior patterns and mapping out all the areas of the assaults. We've talked

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about how you see a map up on the wall and then you've got the pins in them with strings

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that attach. So it's kind of pinpointing where all of the incidents are occurring. So they

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began to look for behavioral patterns of people in the area mapping out the assaults. So the

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perpetrators I'm going to go ahead and tell you their names because as we talk, I'll be

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probably mentioning their names pretty frequently. John Alan Muhammad was 41 years old at the

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time and Lee Melvo was 17. And this is just a little duo of two people that were going

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around terrorizing everybody. There was a caller who called into the hotline and he

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had mentioned that he had a friend of his come by his house in that Tacoma, Washington

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area and he had a companion with him. So one of Muhammad's friends who lived in the Tacoma,

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Washington area called that hotline and said, I was in the army with a guy named John Alan

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Williams, but he changed his name later to John Alan Muhammad. And I really hate to say

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this, but I think your shooter might be this friend of mine from the army. That is really

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interesting that somebody would call on a whim that it could be a person they know.

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Oh yeah. And that was really good that he actually did that call. And you know, so many

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people say, Oh no, it couldn't be. They asked him if they knew who that companion was. And

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if by chance that Muhammad's companion went by the name Melvo and the friend said, well,

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I did meet someone that fits that description, but his name was sniper. And then they, the

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friend was later shown a picture of Melvo. And then at that point in time, he was positively

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identified the police for some reason already had a good idea of what was going on. And

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I'll, I'll get into that in just a bit, but they already had a pretty good idea by the

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time they set up the hotline that these two people were Muhammad in Melvo. And let me

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just give you a little bit of a background on the suspects. Cause I think it's kind of

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important. You noticed I said that Muhammad was 41 and Melvo was 17. That's a big age

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gap. It sure is. Yeah. So, uh, you know, you have to wonder where did they meet and why

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are they hanging out with each other? Well, Muhammad and Melvo were actually in a sexual

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relationship after Muhammad and his wife divorced. And they met by chance in 2000 at an electronic

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store in Antigua, Jamaica, where Melvo was living and they hit it off immediately. So

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this was around the same time that Muhammad had just left his wife and he was losing custody

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of his kids. So I guess he just decided that he was going to take a trip to Jamaica to

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kind of cool off, you know, and Muhammad became a mentor to Melvo after he was left to live

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with his friends because Melvo's mom went to work on the other side of the Island and

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basically abandoned him. So Melvo is living on people's couches and doesn't really have

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a parent, a parental figure. And so Muhammad just decided to take him under his wing. Well,

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I mean, what they do next is pretty horrific. So I just kind of wonder why did Melvo not

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even go with his mother? So how big is Jamaica? I have no idea. I don't, you know, one, you

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all know I'm not good at math, but secondly, secondly, like how big is the Island that

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she goes to the other side to work, but she doesn't take her own son. I don't understand

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that. Maybe our listeners from Jamaica can chime in with that answer. That would be wonderful.

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Yeah. Jamaica, give us a, send us an email. We would love to know how big the Island is

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because in my research, I didn't think to do that before I started this. So maybe next

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time I will be a little bit more prepared. So in the meantime, yeah. So his mom left

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him there with friends and Muhammad kind of took her, took him under his wing. Just so

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you know, Muhammad was a Gulf war vet and taught Melvo how to shoot a rifle. And he

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also put Melvo through some special training exercises. You want to know what those were?

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I do. I'd be very intrigued. Well, Muhammad liked to chain Melvo up for hours just to

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stand outside in the snow in order to prepare him to stand up for interrogations. But wait

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a minute, are they in Jamaica? They don't have snow in Jamaica. Nope. Because it's a

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tropical Island. So I guess we were saying at some point in time after Muhammad brought

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Melvo to the, to the United States, then he started putting him through some training

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exercises, which would be rough. Yeah. So he changed them up, had him stand outside

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in the snow for hours just to kind of break them down. Well, not really just not to break

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them down, but to harden him up to stand up to interrogations. So what, what was he expecting

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to be interrogated on? Right? Exactly. Melvo also endured a lot of brainwashing and was

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tested by killing someone close to Muhammad's ex-wife. So basically he, it was almost like

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he was initiated into a, a gang, but a gang of two, right? Because he was tested and he

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actually did kill someone who was close to Muhammad's ex-wife. And he basically walked

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up to their house, talked to that person for a few minutes and then shot her when he walked

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outside like nothing ever happened. So he went in, made friends, chit-chatted for a

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couple of minutes and then just pulled out a gun, shot her and walked out like nothing

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happened. After this occurrence, Melvo felt like he was initiated. Okay. So apparently

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they started a string of violence across the country. And a couple of articles that I read

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said that Muhammad and Melvo began robbing and killing people in February of 2002. This

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was eight months prior to the Beltway incidents and Muhammad and Melvo, Melvo drove across

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Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. In their wake, they left 17 people

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dead and wounded another 10 more. So it turns out that basically Muhammad was pretty pissed

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off that he had lost custody of his three kids during the divorce from his wife. So

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he thought it would be a good idea to attack the government and the police. Now, not really

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sure what they would have to do with anything with this divorce, besides maybe going to

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court and having divorce papers written up or signed. He just thought it was a good idea

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to attack the government and police and just make a big statement of his own. Now, I basically

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aligned the states up like we were driving across the country. If you're looking at the

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map, I kind of put those states in the order, but that's not really the timeline. And there

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was no set itinerary. There was no timeline on which state they were in. They didn't literally

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drive across the country as it seems that they would to make their way to Washington,

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DC area, but they basically attacked people anywhere they went. One person was attacked

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in Washington state, which is on the West Coast in February. So that's when everything

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started. Then one person was attacked in Arizona a month later, which would be March. And then

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the two took a break until September. So they had a little cooling off period. And then

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they ended up attacking one person in Georgia, Alabama, and then Louisiana. So really they're

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just doing a zigzag all over the United States at this point in time. At one point, one witness

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reported a suspicious white van that led police in a completely different direction for a

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little while, because we know if you see one in a parking lot, do not park next to it.

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Absolutely. Now, even though many other witnesses reported a suspicious blue sedan in the areas

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of the attacks, it was that one witness who reported the white van that kind of threw

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the police off for a little while. And Montgomery County, Maryland police chief, Charles Moose

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admitted that they had gotten it all wrong. This guy, I'm sorry, Charles Moose, you have

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got the coolest name ever. Yay. Charles Moose. Can you imagine? Hello, my name is Charles

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Moose. Oh, I mean, I don't think I heard what you said because Moose is such a, that's a

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strong name, sir. All right. Getting back to the story, white van versus blue sedan,

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white male versus African-American. I'm not sure in the readings, if anybody reported

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that there were white males versus African-Americans, but I'm going to assume that the person who

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ever was driving the white van was a white male. So no, this is what happened. I remembered

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reading this now. So they were doing a profile on the people that might have been doing this.

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And so when they were profiling the criminals, they said they believed it was a white male.

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And so that's when Moose came in and said that they were wrong. It was completely opposite.

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And anyway, so yeah, Mr. Moose or chief Moose, I'm glad that you have a cool name. I'm glad

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that you admitted your mistakes. And I got nothing else to add to that. So what was going

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on in the news at this point is that they began hanging tarps up at gas stations. I

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specifically remember that happening was that people would have, or gas stations would have

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tarps put up to block the public because you know, what are snipers known for? Yeah. Targeting

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anybody that's moving. Yeah. Anybody that's moving and in their path of the crosshairs

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right? Yep. So they had tarps to put up while people were getting gas. I remember them being

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interviewed. They were definitely talking about the scary situation at the time. I mean,

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but you got to get gas. What else can you do? So they did believe that the people that

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or the person that they were trying to find was 20 to 30 years old, a white male with

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military background. Definitely I can see military background on this if they're working

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in like sniper operatives. So the training, the training of Melville. Yes. And I love

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the psychology behind this profiling. I mean, I've seen some of these cop shows where they

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do that. And I mean, it's almost, it's impressive that they can really pinpoint things down.

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You know what I mean? I agree. In fact, I just ordered a book from our local bookstore.

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It's on profiling and they thought it looked like such an interesting title that I had

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coming in that they wanted to order one for their store too. Wow. Because of the title.

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Yep. They were checking me out when the book came in and she looked through it and said,

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I think we'll better get one for our store. Wow. So Mohammed and Melville went on to make

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some pretty bold moves as time progressed and they developed a God complex. One of the

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victims was a 13 year old boy named Iran Brown. It's either Iran or Iran who was getting out

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of his aunt's car just to go into school for the day. He was running late. So I think he

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missed the bus and then he would just, you know, his aunt had to drive him to school

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and well, when he got out of the car, he was shot in the chest and a tarot card with the

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Grim Reaper was left near the scene, which had a note warning police not to do anything

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as far as taking this situation or this occurrence to the news media. So my question here is

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if this child was attacked getting out of the car and nobody saw them, then how did

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the tarot card get there at the scene? Good point. Well, a four page letter, and by the

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way, I don't think that this child died and a four page letter was pinned to a tree by

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one victim who was a shot while leaving a restaurant. And in the letter Mohammed and

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Melville demanded $10 million. And so when the authorities did not deliver, they ended

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up killing five more people. The FBI went on to investigate and on October 17th, 2002,

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someone else called the hotline and said that they were the sniper and they also committed

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an armed robbery in Montgomery, Alabama in September. Now, this is the interesting part.

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I told you that once everything hit the Washington DC area, that things seemed to really implode

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and there was a ton of activity going on, but they spent eight months, like I said a

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little bit earlier, they spent eight months leading up to this. And whoever it was that

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called the hotline stated that they committed an armed robbery in Montgomery, Alabama earlier

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that year. So upon investigation of the phone call, the FBI discovered that an incident

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like this did in fact occur and that fingerprints and ballistic evidence were collected at that

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crime scene in Alabama. So there was a magazine that Melville left behind, and I want to say

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it was some kind of hunting magazine that I've seen in a picture somewhere. He left

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that magazine behind after the robbery. And so they were able to collect fingerprints

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off of that. The evidence was quickly sent to a lab and came back with Lee Boyd Melville's

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prints on the magazine, which was left at the scene. So at least they had that to go

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on. Right now, Mohammed was also mentioned in this report. And on October 22nd, the FBI

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searched the criminal record database and found out that Mohammed owned a blue Chevy

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Capri with New Jersey license plate number NDA 21Z or Zed. So they obviously did their

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homework rather quickly. And uh oh, you all, you know what happens when Beth jumps off

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the system here. I think I'm going to have to tell you all a story. Let's see. I don't

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know if I have a good story. So there was one time she brought a boy home. She was at

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the dating age and it was kind of cool because I think his name was Bob. Bob was, I guess,

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trying to impress my parents because he was introduced to them and we were talking in

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the kitchen. Really nice guy, Bob. I hope you're doing well today. So he ended up, I

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don't know, I don't know how the conversation got started about vinegar, but he said that

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he liked to drink, drink straight vinegar. And so my mom's like, what? You want to drink

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straight vinegar? Here you go. Let me give you some. Okay, Bob, more power to you. Your

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stomach is solid, man. You drank that vinegar and didn't even wince. I'm proud of you. Hi

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Beth. Welcome back. I told another story about you. You didn't. I'm not sure you would just,

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let me just get squared away here on my chair. And I thought you would behave yourself. You

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remember a guy named Bob? Oh my gosh. Yes. Do you want to tell us about him? No. That's

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okay. I already did. Well, mom used to say he had a kukuruku on his hair because of the

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way it swayed. Was it like a cowlick? Yeah, bad one. Oh, Hey, I remember learning about

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cowlicks. We used to have those little, oh, I don't know if they were talent shows or

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whatever. They were up on the stage at the elementary school that we went to. And then

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we'd all go in there like a, in auditorium and sit there and watch different things.

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One guy played Benny and the Jets on his guitar. And some other guy gave us a speech on how

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cowlicks occur or how cowlicks happen. He did. Yeah. That's how I learned a cow literally

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comes up and licks you. And that's why your hair looks like that. The farmers out there

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wouldn't be too happy with that story. Well, hopefully our listeners enjoyed the story

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about Bob, because if you don't want to indulge, I will. We used to go fishing all the time.

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You did. Did you catch anything? No, because we just went by some little creeks and there

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really wasn't anything. I was such a tomboy back then. Oh yeah. Yeah. Those were the days,

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right? Yeah. Okay. Let me see if I can pick up where we left off, but just know whenever

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you drop, there will be another story to be told. Nothing to say. No. Oh, okay. Eventually

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Melvo and Muhammad were arrested. And on October 24th of 2002, the FBI surrounded the suspect's

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car and arrested both Muhammad and Melvo as they were taking a break off of I-70 in Maryland.

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They were just taking a nap and apparently Melvo had night watch duty, but he fell asleep

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because how old was he? 17? Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know why, um, Muhammad would have

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put him in charge, but you know, I guess they took turns. Now a refrigerator repairman wrote

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down that license plate number that I had mentioned and called the tip line from the

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rest stop. So apparently the guys were sleeping in the car and he had enough gumption to take

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down that number and call the police at the same time. And so the FBI were able to surround

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them rather quickly. Oh good. Yeah. And now upon inspection of the 1990 Chevy Capri authorities

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discovered a little small hole that was cut right outside of the car's license, like right

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next to the license plate. So they had it set up, Melvo and Muhammad had it set up in

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a way where they took the divider out from, um, between the back seat and the trunk. So

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one of them, they didn't even have to get out of the car. All they did was probably

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move the seat back. It looked normal. If you're coming up on them at a red light, it looked

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like the back seat was normal, but all they had to do was remove that, that back seat.

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And then there was nothing keeping them from just getting in the trunk and laying low.

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And so what they would do is they would put the tip, the tip of the rifle. That's what

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you call it. The muzzle. Is it the muzzle? I don't know. Okay. Why don't you know you

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were in the army? They didn't teach you about the parts of a, of a gun? No. Oh, well I'm

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sure they did, but you know what? I forget. Okay. So they were able to take the, um, I'm

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going to call it the muzzle of the rifle that they were using. They basically just laid

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low, got into position, stuck the muzzle out through the hole of the back of the car where

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the trunk was at next to the license plate. And then, you know, they did their damage

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from there. So when the authorities searched the car, they found a Bushmaster 223 rifle

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that was used in the Montgomery, Alabama robbery, which was found in the vehicle here. And then

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along with that, they found a rifle scope in a tripod that normally snipers are used

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when they're training. Now, I don't know if Muhammad was actually trained to be a sniper

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in the military, but he surely was pretty knowledgeable. He had a restraining order

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against him by his ex-wife with all those proceedings, but because he committed federal

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violations with having that rifle in his possession, when he was arrested, the authorities were

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able to charge him with a weapons violation at the time, which got him off the streets

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immediately. You know how sometimes they can get bail. Oh yeah. Yeah. So if he had a restraining

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order against him, he was already in violation of that. Now they ended up going on trial

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and were found guilty on all charges and Muhammad was sentenced to death. He was put to death

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by lethal injection in November of 2009, but because Melva was a juvenile at the time,

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he was sentenced to six consecutive life sentences without parole. And he's serving his sentences

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at the Red Onion State Prison in Virginia. Now I am not condoning any of these actions,

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but he seemed to have gotten a heart a little bit while he's been incarcerated. And he is

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saying that while looking back on these incidents, Melvo came to the realization that Muhammad

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was training him for a mission. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And that mission was to get Muhammad's

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children back. You know, Melvin kind of fell right into that. He was tested and ended up

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hurting somebody close to his ex-wife. And then of course he went on this little spree

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across the States. However, in 2012, the Supreme court ruled that defendants who are under,

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well, who were age 17 or younger should not be sentenced without the possibility of parole

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without extenuating circumstances such as irreparable corruption. But Melvo has shown

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remorse for his actions and publicly admitted that he himself is a monster. So just last

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month in February of 2022, the Maryland Supreme court is reconsidering Melvo's sentences under

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the circumstances that he was a minor when he committed his crimes. So he actually has

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a possibility to come out on parole after he serves 20 years, which is pretty much any

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day now because he's been in there since what, 2002? He's been incarcerated almost 20 years,

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if not 20 years already. But of course, you know, you have to go through a bunch of red

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tape to be able to be freed or released or whatever that is. But you know what the good

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news is that I did not find about this story. What nobody hooked up through a dating website.

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That's true. Anyway, that's the story of the beltway snipers. That was very interesting.

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Yeah. I hate it for everybody who lost someone or even had to live with the terror of the

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situation at the time. But you know, with technology and everything getting better these

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days, then I'm glad they got them off the streets as quickly as they did. That hotline

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really did seem to help. It reminded me of our podcast on Don't F with Cats, how the

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public all rallied around and super sleuthed. I love that. Yeah, for sure. It just it takes

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it takes a village, doesn't it? Yeah. Okay, so there you have it. Now. I don't know if

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you have any closings for me today, Beth. No, I think you were going to give us a teachable

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moment teachable moment. Go out to the field first if you're going to ride a dirt bike

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and don't get overzealous because if you really don't know how to drive it and you're out

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on the road, you're going to crash. So that's a wrap. And that's a wrap. But before we wrap,

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I just wanted to tell everybody thanks for listening and please go to our website at

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dying to be found calm. You can find all of our social media sites there and all of our

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podcasts that you can listen to. So thanks for listening and we will talk to you next

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time. Bye.