1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,060 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started today, I just wanted to mention that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 2 00:00:12,060 --> 00:00:15,060 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 3 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:18,100 Hi everyone, I'm Deb. 4 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:19,300 And I'm Beth. 5 00:00:19,300 --> 00:00:23,800 Welcome to episode 2 of Dying to be Found. So Beth, how's your week? 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:29,600 It's been great. I answered the phone at work today and I kept saying, awesome! 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,700 I love that. What's their reaction? 8 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:36,900 I would say about 75% of the people laugh. It just makes their day. 9 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:39,900 That's great. Laughing makes you live longer. 10 00:00:39,900 --> 00:00:41,400 Does it? 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,700 Yes. Get a little giggle in your day and you're good to go. 12 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:54,200 So here in America, we pretend to have, or we pretty much, what did I say, pretend? No, we don't pretend to have national days for everything. 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,900 We have national days for everything! 14 00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:06,900 Like National Left-Hander's Day. And I'm pretty chapped because had I known back in the day that I could have gotten a college scholarship for just being left-handed, 15 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:10,200 my student loans are way out the roof, but I don't really want to talk about that. 16 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:16,500 Well, maybe you should get a second job. But before you say anything, I've never heard of I am chapped. 17 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:19,700 I was thinking you were going to talk about your chapped lips all the time. 18 00:01:19,700 --> 00:01:25,200 For sure. I still have chapstick in my pocket. Just about 24-7. Have it on my bedside table. 19 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:26,700 My daughter is addicted. 20 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:34,000 She even did a school speech on being addicted to chapstick and it was a very interesting listen to. 21 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,900 Is it clinically proven? 22 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:41,700 I do recall that there's items in the chapstick to keep you having to use it. 23 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:49,500 Anyway, I'm chapped because had I known there was a Left-Hander's Day or a Left-Hander's scholarship for people that are left-handed, 24 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:53,600 in case you didn't know there, you could probably get a scholarship if you had a goat. 25 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,500 So there you get. We had a goat. Oh my gosh. 26 00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:01,400 All right, so Beth, I had every intention of covering a story out of Canada today, 27 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:08,000 but while I was creating the marketing feeds for social media this week, I discovered something pretty interesting. 28 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,100 Did you know there is something called World Wildlife Day? 29 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:18,400 And don't worry, folks, I have every intention of looking up national whatever days between Canada and the United States 30 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,600 so Beth and I can both align our calendars. 31 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,100 I know that there is something to celebrate every day of the year. 32 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:29,600 So, of course, there's something different for everyone except for Boxing Day because we don't have that here. 33 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,200 We love it. It's an extra day off the day after Christmas. 34 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,700 Does everybody know the story behind Boxing Day? 35 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:44,700 As far as I know, it has to do with going into the stores and buying boxes of cards, maybe? 36 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:48,100 Okay, so I actually know what Boxing Day is all about. 37 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:53,700 Boxing Day is all about how, you know, in Downton Abbey, how they always had those servants, right? 38 00:02:53,700 --> 00:02:54,400 Yes. 39 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,000 The servants, what were they doing on Christmas Day? 40 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,800 I don't remember, really. 41 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,200 They were serving their employers. 42 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,400 They had to work on Christmas Day is pretty much what that was all about. 43 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:10,700 So their employers gave them the very next day off and that's when they got their boxes. 44 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:13,400 Oh, that's neat. 45 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,000 Yeah, that's why they got Boxing Day. 46 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,200 So we do not have Boxing Day here. 47 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,000 I did while I was doing some research this week, I came across World Wildlife Day, 48 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,100 which is coming up on March 3rd. 49 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:28,500 And since this recording, I was planning on doing a totally different story. 50 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:34,000 But because of World Wildlife Day coming up, I kind of wanted to bring a little bit of awareness. 51 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:42,000 And this is where I'm talking about how we want to leave this podcast open to the interpretation of our listeners. 52 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,700 And it's looking like it's a little bit of open interpretation to me as well, 53 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:52,700 because I had talked about not just necessarily big name crimes or missing persons. 54 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:54,300 So it's all about true crime. 55 00:03:54,300 --> 00:04:02,100 And so the topic I wanted to talk about today is about poaching and how crazy things get with illegal wildlife trade. 56 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:03,800 So you want to talk about that today? 57 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:04,700 Will that be okay? 58 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:05,600 Oh, for sure. 59 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,500 I was really excited when you came up with this topic. 60 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:11,900 Well, I know I'm throwing everybody for a loop, but again, 61 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:13,500 Me too. 62 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:16,900 Yep, like to keep people guessing on what we're going to be doing. 63 00:04:16,900 --> 00:04:17,500 Why not? 64 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:18,500 It's true crime. 65 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:23,600 And this is just one of those things that does not seem to be going away, 66 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:33,100 because just in April of last year in 2021, two Spanish journalists and a conservationist were killed by Al Qaeda 67 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:36,700 while they were working on a documentary about illegal poaching. 68 00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:45,200 So one of the most prized possessions that I found was the white rhinoceros is probably the biggest animal for poaching. 69 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:54,200 And these people are just trying to get their horns and their horns are worth around $368,000 just for its horn. 70 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,700 What do you think they use this horn for? 71 00:04:55,700 --> 00:04:57,000 Now think about this, Beth. 72 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,500 You come across, I don't know, you're on a safari and you're out in the wilderness 73 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:11,400 and you come across a big carcass of a rhinoceros and they're just laying there and the horns been just sawed off their face. 74 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,000 What do you think they're using horns for? 75 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,100 I don't know, are they ivory? Like with elephants? 76 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:21,200 I don't know. If anybody knows, that would be great to let us know about that. 77 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,600 I have not really looked into that. 78 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,500 I mean, in my research, it never really mentioned ivory, but no. 79 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:27,700 Any other guesses? 80 00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:29,100 Not a one. 81 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:30,500 Hangover remedies. 82 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:35,100 They want the horns of the white rhinoceros for hangover remedies. 83 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:37,600 The cheapest one would be just don't drink. 84 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:38,600 Yeah, for sure. 85 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,900 There are a ton of other animals that are poached, including the tiger for its penis, Beth, 86 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:49,400 and they collect around $400 for that so that they can use it in soup. 87 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:54,100 The whale shark is also used for soup and cosmetics and other health supplements, 88 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:57,900 along with the great white shark and other species of the rhinoceros. 89 00:05:57,900 --> 00:06:01,900 So the rhinoceros seems to get the bad end of the deal here. 90 00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:07,700 Elephants, like you had mentioned, are used for ivory tusks and polar bears for their fur. 91 00:06:07,700 --> 00:06:11,500 And I'm sure the list goes on and on and on. 92 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:15,600 And I just want to kind of know how do these poachers keep getting away with it? 93 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,400 Well, it burns my butt. 94 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,400 This is a good time to mention about Diane Fossey. 95 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:21,800 Have you heard about her? 96 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,300 I know the name. 97 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:26,700 She was known for her extensive study of mountain gorillas. 98 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:31,300 Is she the one that taught the gorillas how to sign language? 99 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:32,100 Yes. 100 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:35,500 Wait, you're saying that what's she got to do with poachers? 101 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:39,200 Because they were the ones that unfortunately killed her. 102 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:44,500 She had a cabin in the mountains of Rwanda in December 1985. 103 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:47,500 They came upon her in their cabin dead. 104 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:53,000 Oh, she worked from 1966 until 85 with those gorillas. 105 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Oh my gosh. 106 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Did they poach the gorillas? 107 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,000 Yes. 108 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,000 While she was there? 109 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,000 Yeah, she came up. 110 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,000 She got very close to one of them. 111 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:06,200 And she was devastated when she found their hands cut off. 112 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,100 That's what they were poaching on gorillas because they made ash trays. 113 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:12,200 Ash trays out of gorillas' hands. 114 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:12,900 Mm-hmm. 115 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:14,500 This is disgusting. 116 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:17,500 Like how much more disgusting can this be? 117 00:07:17,500 --> 00:07:21,200 Because, you know, I feel like I have a kindred spirit with animals. 118 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,900 I think that you can agree. 119 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:25,000 I've always loved my animals in my life. 120 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,500 Of course, I love my husband. 121 00:07:26,500 --> 00:07:27,900 I love my kids. 122 00:07:27,900 --> 00:07:32,200 Definitely, there's no comparison, but I absolutely love my animals. 123 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,500 So this story kind of hit home with me when I found out it was World Wildlife Day. 124 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:39,500 So I started Googling crimes against the wildlife. 125 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:44,200 I mean, I know this has been around for a really long time, but I had no idea. 126 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,200 The capacity and the extent. 127 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:53,300 And like I said earlier, those journalists who just a year ago were attacked because of poaching. 128 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:58,600 Well, I was reading up on some of this after I saw your posts and boy, does it make me angry. 129 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,300 It burns my butt. 130 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:02,100 It chaps your butt, huh? 131 00:08:02,100 --> 00:08:02,900 Yes. 132 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:04,800 Hahaha. 133 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,900 Hey, so since we're talking about animals, do you remember watching the movie Bambi? 134 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:10,300 Yes, and you know what? 135 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:11,800 It was dad's favorite movie. 136 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,600 Really? 137 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,600 Could you believe it? 138 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,400 I had no idea that was dad's favorite movie. 139 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:17,100 How do you know that? 140 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:20,400 I don't remember, but I do remember that he really liked it. 141 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,000 Oh, so what's your favorite Disney movie? 142 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,200 101 Dalmatians. 143 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,800 Hey, I remember when that movie came out with Glenn Close. 144 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,300 Boy, was there a flood of people buying up these Dalmatians. 145 00:08:34,300 --> 00:08:38,300 But then what people didn't realize is that Dalmatians aren't that friendly. 146 00:08:38,300 --> 00:08:40,300 And they're very hard to keep. 147 00:08:40,300 --> 00:08:41,100 Why? 148 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:42,400 They're a lot of work. 149 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,900 Are they like hypers like the little Jack Russells? 150 00:08:44,900 --> 00:08:46,600 I don't think they're so much hyper. 151 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,500 I just think they, it's their personalities. 152 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:51,500 So they're just extra. 153 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:52,100 Yeah. 154 00:08:52,100 --> 00:08:57,100 Okay, so I'm going to talk to you today about several cases that have to do with illegal 155 00:08:57,100 --> 00:09:02,600 wildlife poaching, which is pretty insane because it does happen to all these beautiful 156 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:03,100 creatures. 157 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:08,100 You've got so many animals that are on the extinction list and yet it still happens. 158 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:13,600 I wanted to bring up some facts about poaching that are still occurring. 159 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,200 Two Rangers a week are killed protecting our wildlife. 160 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,700 And this is international beth between US and Canada because there's a, what is it called? 161 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:24,600 The Lacey law. 162 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,800 There's a law in effect that protects the animals worldwide. 163 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,900 Thousands of poachers usually mainly coming out of Africa. 164 00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:35,500 Only six countries collect data on poaching right now. 165 00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:37,100 How many countries are in the world? 166 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:38,900 I mean, I'm not asking you to ask. 167 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:40,500 People are turning a blind eye. 168 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:42,100 Yeah, for sure. 169 00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:50,300 Illegal poaching is a worldwide business that brings in up to $23 billion a year. 170 00:09:50,300 --> 00:09:56,000 A hundred million sharks are killed every year and I could go on and on and on and on 171 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,500 because I had mentioned some of the animals on that list with the rhinoceros, the tiger, 172 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:01,500 the elephant. 173 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:07,800 I'm going to put a link in our show notes so that you all can look it up and see what 174 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,400 the statistics are on that because it's actually quite interesting. 175 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,200 It's eye-opening and I just think that this is one of those moments where we just need 176 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:17,600 to bring awareness to the problem. 177 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,900 So I'm going to start talking a little bit about some cases of people actually getting 178 00:10:21,900 --> 00:10:22,400 caught. 179 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:23,000 Hallelujah. 180 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,300 These people are getting caught. 181 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:29,300 There's one man named David Berry from Missouri in 2016. 182 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:31,600 He was cited or criminally charged. 183 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,700 I guess there's a big difference. 184 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:36,900 He was either cited like getting a fine, a ticket of some sort, or he was criminally 185 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:40,600 charged for over 70 times of poaching. 186 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,900 And that was going across borders. 187 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:47,300 He went into Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Canada. 188 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:53,200 Basically, he committed the crimes against the Lacey Act that was put into place in 1900 189 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,700 to protect these animals. 190 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:57,500 Now, this is what really angers me. 191 00:10:57,500 --> 00:11:00,100 70 charges for one man. 192 00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:03,300 If 16 hind charges, way too much. 193 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:04,300 This is a joke. 194 00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:07,000 The system needs to be fixed. 195 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,700 So the authorities were already into all of David's shenanigans. 196 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:13,200 And so they were watching for him at this point. 197 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,000 They were able to get some search warrants for his phone. 198 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:22,400 And then through those records, they discovered that another person who was Cody Scott from 199 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,500 Missouri, he was also involved. 200 00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:28,700 So according to cell phone records, these guys took a trip up your way back into Canada 201 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:33,200 to poach for mule deer bucks just to get their antlers. 202 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,800 I hear a lot about that. 203 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,800 What do they do with antlers because I saw a ton of pictures. 204 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,400 They go into medicines. 205 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,900 Okay, like herbals. 206 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:44,400 Okay. 207 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,600 And it seems like a lot of the animals that we've already talked about also go into those 208 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,400 herbal remedies. 209 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:57,100 Well, I ask you about these things randomly, but do you remember me asking you about Bambi? 210 00:11:57,100 --> 00:12:02,100 Interestingly enough in this case, basically this guy, David Berry, he spent eight months 211 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:08,700 in jail for poaching and he was ordered to watch Bambi several times along with being 212 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:15,200 ordered to pay 16,000 over 16,000 in fines that was payable to the Lacey Act reward fund. 213 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,300 So at least the money is going back into the system to hopefully catch these poachers. 214 00:12:19,300 --> 00:12:21,700 Not really sure why he was watching Bambi. 215 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:23,500 I have no idea neither. 216 00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:24,860 I will say this. 217 00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:30,900 When I was growing up, you all, I was quite sensitive and there were movies I was not 218 00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:32,900 allowed to watch when I was a kid. 219 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:35,500 One of them was Old Yeller or is it Old Yellow? 220 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:37,100 No, Old Yeller. 221 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:38,100 Old Yeller. 222 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:41,700 I was not allowed to watch that because we all know what happens at the end, right? 223 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:42,700 Yeah. 224 00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:46,800 And of all things, I was not allowed to watch Charlotte's Web at school. 225 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,900 Do you remember an assembly where everybody went into the gym just to watch Charlotte's 226 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:51,900 Web? 227 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:53,700 No, but I remember we did the King and I. 228 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:55,420 The King and I? 229 00:12:55,420 --> 00:12:56,820 At the elementary school? 230 00:12:56,820 --> 00:12:58,700 Wait, you said the King and I. 231 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:04,180 I was thinking of the Lion King, I'm still on the Disney movies. 232 00:13:04,180 --> 00:13:08,300 I do remember going to the elementary school when we lived in the city too though, because 233 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,140 we got these neat tickets. 234 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:14,780 I feel like we saw, what is that movie about the kids in the Witches Mountain? 235 00:13:14,780 --> 00:13:15,780 Was it called Witches Mountain? 236 00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:16,780 We did. 237 00:13:16,780 --> 00:13:18,380 Oh yes, I remember you being naughty. 238 00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:20,300 How was I being naughty? 239 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:26,620 You were throwing popcorn down over onto the people below because we were on the second 240 00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:33,940 level and one of the people who work there came up and scolded the three of us and said 241 00:13:33,940 --> 00:13:37,300 if you don't stop it, you're being kicked out. 242 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:38,820 I do not remember that. 243 00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:39,820 Oh yeah. 244 00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:42,180 Okay, you ready for case number two? 245 00:13:42,180 --> 00:13:43,180 Yeah. 246 00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:51,000 So there's a father-son duo, David Majorcan and Ramon Torres Majorcan. 247 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:59,580 They were charged in 2017 for smuggling harvested sea cucumbers worth over $17 million into 248 00:13:59,580 --> 00:14:02,220 the United States to sell to the Asian markets. 249 00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:05,740 I hope not for soup because I don't really know much about sea cucumbers. 250 00:14:05,740 --> 00:14:07,700 Do you know anything about them? 251 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:08,700 No. 252 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:13,880 I looked at a picture and it kind of looks like a cucumber, only think of trying to think 253 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:19,260 of how you would compare it to, I would say it's about three times bigger than a football. 254 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:20,260 What? 255 00:14:20,260 --> 00:14:21,260 Yeah. 256 00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:25,920 And I did have to go look up this little bit about it because, oh, I've heard of them, 257 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,020 but I don't know much about the ocean life because, you know, I grew up in Canada and 258 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:34,700 Lake Huron was my ocean and there's creepy things out there in the real ocean. 259 00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:35,700 All right. 260 00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:42,020 So sea cucumbers, they protect the coral reefs and they act as a filter on the ocean floor, 261 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:43,760 which I thought was pretty cool. 262 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:49,320 So think about the fact that the sea cucumber is poached for soup. 263 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:50,500 Did I say soup earlier? 264 00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:51,500 No. 265 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,840 They're harvested to sell to the Asian markets. 266 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:55,840 I have no idea. 267 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,400 A lot of this stuff is medicinal or, you know, natural herbs and stuff like that. 268 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,840 But sea cucumbers are a natural way to filter the ocean floor so that it prevents algae 269 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,540 from growing. 270 00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:09,700 And they also protect those coral reefs. 271 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,460 So well, we all know what lurks on coral reefs. 272 00:15:12,460 --> 00:15:14,460 Have you seen Finding Nemo? 273 00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:16,460 I don't know. 274 00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:18,460 I might have. 275 00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:19,460 Wait a minute. 276 00:15:19,460 --> 00:15:22,460 Are you telling me you have never seen Finding Nemo? 277 00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:24,020 I don't think I have. 278 00:15:24,020 --> 00:15:27,220 With Dory the fish, Ellen Degeneres. 279 00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:28,500 Keep on swimming. 280 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:29,500 Keep on swimming. 281 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:30,500 No, I'm old. 282 00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:31,500 I'm not. 283 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:34,860 I don't remember what I saw. 284 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:36,020 You need to go watch that one. 285 00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:37,020 It's a good one. 286 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:38,020 Okay. 287 00:15:38,020 --> 00:15:42,620 Sea cucumbers go for approximately $300 per pound. 288 00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:45,800 Oh, they're used for medicinal purposes. 289 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,780 Also as an aphrodisiac. 290 00:15:47,780 --> 00:15:49,100 That's sea cucumbers. 291 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:54,980 So the Mayorkans smuggled the sea cucumbers in from Mexico by falsifying their paperwork 292 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:56,960 in the shipping containers. 293 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,580 And I'll get into that in just a little bit because the more I look dug into poaching, 294 00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:07,600 the more I found that a lot of people end up falsifying their paperwork when they're 295 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,900 moving their shipments from one country to another. 296 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:12,900 All right. 297 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:16,980 So let's talk about case number three, where crooks are really kind of stupid. 298 00:16:16,980 --> 00:16:18,900 You ever see that show back in the day? 299 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:19,900 Crooks are stupid. 300 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:20,900 No. 301 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:21,900 Well, they are. 302 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:22,900 I'm just saying. 303 00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:24,980 I mean, they are. 304 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:28,300 They just, they think they are so smart, but they're not. 305 00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:30,740 So David Zajac, I'm going to say it's Zajac. 306 00:16:30,740 --> 00:16:39,620 It's Z or Z-A-Y-A-C. And seven other people were poaching 39 deer, including 22 bucks 307 00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:42,860 between 2013 and 2016. 308 00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:51,540 Now what made it so bad is that the illegal hunting of animals is, you know, they're in 309 00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:52,740 their natural habitat. 310 00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:55,480 The animal itself is in their natural habitat. 311 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:01,020 And I think that's why some people can get in trouble for this because they shot the 312 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:06,060 animals by feeders that were triggered by motion sensor lights. 313 00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:07,060 That's sad. 314 00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:08,060 Sad, sad. 315 00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:09,060 It is. 316 00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:10,060 Isn't that like cheating? 317 00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:11,060 Okay. 318 00:17:11,060 --> 00:17:12,060 You can't. 319 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:15,580 You can't go out in the woods and sit there for eight hours and hope that an animal is 320 00:17:15,580 --> 00:17:16,580 going to come up on you. 321 00:17:16,580 --> 00:17:17,980 You got to use sensor lights. 322 00:17:17,980 --> 00:17:21,780 And then earlier when I was talking about David Berry, he was shooting from the road. 323 00:17:21,780 --> 00:17:23,040 Like he would just would sit there. 324 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:24,940 So I'm thinking deer in the headlights. 325 00:17:24,940 --> 00:17:29,180 You know how, have you ever come up on deer driving down the back road or anything? 326 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:35,940 No, but Al has, and he had a huge dent in his car from running into a deer. 327 00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:36,940 Oh my gosh. 328 00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:37,940 Yeah. 329 00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:38,940 That happened to me once. 330 00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:42,140 I got out of the car and I never did see what happened to the deer. 331 00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:45,100 I think it ran off because I didn't get out of the car at that very moment. 332 00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:50,380 But when I got home, cause you know, I'm not going to stop, there's a video out there that 333 00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:55,020 has some man who hit a deer and he put it in the back seat of his car and then the deer 334 00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:56,020 woke up. 335 00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:57,380 So he's calling nine one one. 336 00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:58,620 Have you ever heard that video? 337 00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:59,620 Yeah. 338 00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:00,620 All right. 339 00:18:00,620 --> 00:18:04,740 So David Berry was shooting from the road, basically using his headlights on his car, 340 00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:09,460 and Zayac basically got caught because he decided he was going to go into the bar and 341 00:18:09,460 --> 00:18:11,420 drink some true serum. 342 00:18:11,420 --> 00:18:14,140 We all know that true serum in the bars, right? 343 00:18:14,140 --> 00:18:19,820 And he started bragging to a stranger who happened to be an undercover agent and that 344 00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:25,500 undercover agent was investigating John on the suspicion of poaching. 345 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:27,460 So he just kind of fell right into his hands. 346 00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:28,460 All right. 347 00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:29,460 Yeah, exactly. 348 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:30,460 All right. 349 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:34,780 In all of the millennia cases, there are dozens of poachers out here. 350 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:35,780 Gosh. 351 00:18:35,780 --> 00:18:39,140 So a lot of it happens when people just come on private property. 352 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:43,740 So let's just say I own three acres of land and then my next door neighbor decides to 353 00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:45,800 come onto my property to hunt. 354 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,640 So that's considered poaching. 355 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,780 If somebody doesn't have a hunting license or if they have the wrong kind of hunting 356 00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:54,920 license or if they use the wrong kind of equipment. 357 00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,140 So if it's like turkey season, do you hunt turkeys with guns or arrows? 358 00:19:00,140 --> 00:19:04,420 I'm not sure, but I mean, basically, if you're out there, I mean, I know here we've got hunting 359 00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:10,500 season where you can only use bows and arrows or you can use at other times you're allowed 360 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:11,500 to use a rifle. 361 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:17,180 So if you're using a rifle during bow season, then that's considered poaching. 362 00:19:17,180 --> 00:19:19,620 There are also people out there doing thrill kills. 363 00:19:19,620 --> 00:19:20,780 They're just doing it for fun. 364 00:19:20,780 --> 00:19:28,700 There was a man who was videotaped stabbing a deer, just stabbing it and then just dragging 365 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:30,180 it around until it died. 366 00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:33,300 So I know it's crazy. 367 00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:34,660 So I just don't know. 368 00:19:34,660 --> 00:19:37,020 I don't know what is going through these people's minds. 369 00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:39,520 I mean, there's no thrill about that. 370 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:45,060 And then there's a list of famous people or celebrities who have also been recognized 371 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:50,180 as poachers, but that would kind of follow along the lines of maybe not having the right 372 00:19:50,180 --> 00:19:52,500 license or things like that. 373 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:57,940 Actually we're going to transition a little bit into how some of the processes they use 374 00:19:57,940 --> 00:20:03,260 to catch serial killers can also stop elephant and wildlife poachers too. 375 00:20:03,260 --> 00:20:06,700 You know how we use DNA these days, right? 376 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:08,940 Now they can use DNA. 377 00:20:08,940 --> 00:20:11,580 Have you heard of familial searching? 378 00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:12,580 No. 379 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:18,780 It is a way of, I want you to think about 35 and me, something like that. 380 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:25,300 So you take your DNA from your family members and you basically link relationships and match 381 00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:26,300 it. 382 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:30,340 And what they've done is I'll just give you a really quick statistics. 383 00:20:30,340 --> 00:20:35,900 Approximately 500 tons of raw ivory is shipped out of Africa every year. 384 00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,100 So that would be just from elephants, right? 385 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:46,940 And so the genetic testing with familial searching is a big breakthrough in poaching investigations 386 00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:54,220 because what they do is they look for that DNA of an elephant family. 387 00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:58,380 Aren't they a social creature where they're always together? 388 00:20:58,380 --> 00:20:59,380 They're not loners. 389 00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:01,340 They're family units, right? 390 00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:07,780 So if you had one elephant that was poached, I don't know, let's just say a year ago, there 391 00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:12,300 was an elephant poached and then the authorities found the ivory. 392 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:17,700 Well, what they do is they link relationships between the elephant families to create a 393 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:18,700 match. 394 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:23,460 And so think about how on crime shows where you see a bulletin board and you've got a 395 00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:28,060 map and then you've got these pins in the map and then you've got those little lines 396 00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:33,660 of string that go from one pin to the next all over the map, right? 397 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:35,220 They do the same thing. 398 00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:38,480 They are catching a lot of poachers that way. 399 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:46,020 Usually what happens is the tusks and whatever parts are being shipped illegally, then they're 400 00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:49,940 usually being stopped whenever the shipments are being inspected. 401 00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:53,980 You know, like you and me going between Canada and the United States when we were growing 402 00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:54,980 up. 403 00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:57,660 Do you remember going to grandma's house and how we always stopped in customs? 404 00:21:57,660 --> 00:21:58,660 Oh, yeah. 405 00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:05,180 So the familial searching works in a way that the investigators collect data on the seized 406 00:22:05,180 --> 00:22:09,380 goods and they put it all into the system and they connect those dots all over the world, 407 00:22:09,380 --> 00:22:11,860 kind of like that map that I just described. 408 00:22:11,860 --> 00:22:18,300 But it's a little bit difficult because authorities can go back and link the DNA to known poachers. 409 00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,660 But what the poachers are doing is they're kind of catching on. 410 00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:24,860 So they're moving around to different areas now. 411 00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:29,020 Scientists can still link the DNA from the ivory, just like they would with our human 412 00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:30,120 teeth. 413 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:36,640 As of this month, authorities have been able to match around 600 genetically matched tusks 414 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,780 between smuggled shipments. 415 00:22:38,780 --> 00:22:44,500 Once the DNA is identified, then officials can pinpoint locations of known smugglers 416 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:49,000 and then obtain those cell records or the bill of lading at the port site. 417 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,620 It's like shipping something over from America into Canada. 418 00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:55,660 Well, every shipment has a bill of lading. 419 00:22:55,660 --> 00:23:00,260 It's almost like, you know, you know how many people are on an airplane, right? 420 00:23:00,260 --> 00:23:01,260 They have all the names. 421 00:23:01,260 --> 00:23:07,340 So that's where people are just fudging the information going on to what's being shipped. 422 00:23:07,340 --> 00:23:11,100 I mean, I know that you and I have passed packages back and forth and they always have 423 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,460 the little slip that you have to fill out and they want to know what's in it so that 424 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:18,180 when you get your package, you're not surprised because it's written on the front of the package 425 00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:19,700 before you even open it. 426 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:25,600 Although the familial testing is a breakthrough of stopping illegal poaching, they have caught 427 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,580 on and are now working out of less conspicuous countries. 428 00:23:30,580 --> 00:23:34,500 Africa is a really big country, so now they're moving to other places. 429 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:42,180 And then I will say in 2021, two suspects were arrested in Seattle, Washington, but 430 00:23:42,180 --> 00:23:45,880 they were caught by using the DNA familial technique. 431 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,300 So here comes that Lacey Act again. 432 00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:53,900 They falsely labeled their shipment from the bill of ladings, which violates that Lacey 433 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:54,900 Act. 434 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:59,500 If they're convicted, they'll face a maximum of 20 years in prison for smuggling, money 435 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,980 laundering and those Lacey Act violations. 436 00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:05,700 That's kind of where we're at with poaching, Beth. 437 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,300 The list goes on and on and on. 438 00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:12,700 And like I said, I'm going to put a link in our show notes just so everybody can just 439 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:14,180 get an idea. 440 00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:18,340 It just doesn't look like it's going to stop soon, but I'm excited to know they're using 441 00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:19,340 DNA. 442 00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:24,300 I know it's probably highly expensive, but the World Wildlife Foundation is a really 443 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:27,540 good spot for you all to just kind of look things up. 444 00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:33,240 And it's hopefully if we can get the word out there on this problem, then we will hopefully 445 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,300 say that we've done something about it. 446 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:37,860 I mean, it just doesn't seem like it's going to be going away. 447 00:24:37,860 --> 00:24:43,100 Well, at least this is one step closer to catching these guys and getting them off the 448 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:44,100 streets. 449 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:49,940 I think what we should see happening is more jail time. 450 00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:52,580 Maybe that will get out the word. 451 00:24:52,580 --> 00:24:54,360 I hope so. 452 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:58,780 In the meantime, thanks for listening to Dying to Be Found, True Crime Podcast. 453 00:24:58,780 --> 00:25:04,860 We would love to receive feedback from our listeners on today's storyline or any of our 454 00:25:04,860 --> 00:25:06,240 other episodes. 455 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,580 Be sure to DM us on Instagram or send us an email at dying the number two, the letter 456 00:25:11,580 --> 00:25:13,760 be found at gmail.com. 457 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,180 You can visit our website at dying to be found.com. 458 00:25:17,180 --> 00:25:21,220 This website contains our latest episodes and links to our social media accounts. 459 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,000 I mean, you could just click on it. 460 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,940 You don't have to worry about how to spell it. 461 00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:27,140 We hope to hear from you next week. 462 00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:31,780 And if you have anything that you want us to look up and talk about for you, then just 463 00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:33,140 shoot us an email. 464 00:25:33,140 --> 00:25:34,140 And that's a wrap. 465 00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:35,140 That it is. 466 00:25:35,140 --> 00:25:36,140 Bye, everybody. 467 00:25:36,140 --> 00:25:55,140 Bye.