Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Okay, we're recording.
Are we reading or is this just like an intro we're talking?
I think let's just talk.
What do you think?
Okay, go.
Okay.
We are so excited about starting this podcast.
Beth, I'm a little bit nervous.
I am too.
So here's what I was thinking in the commute to work today.
One of the things that I wanted to talk about to the listeners was the fact that how we
kind of came up with the name Dying to be Found in my opinion, and you can certainly
tell me what you think.
It's not always about sinister stories of evil people.
I want the broadcast itself to be open to interpretation to our listeners.
So we can talk about missing persons or anything that we feel that kind of falls into people
who just are holding out for hope.
That can yes include some of the stories that you hear on the news like we're going to talk
about today.
But I just kind of want to let our listeners know that we are thinking about you and we
want you to if you have any stories that you want us to cover.
It is not just about true crime.
It is also about missing persons and things like that.
So if you have a story that you would love to hear, please send us an email at dying
the number two, the letter B found at gmail.com.
But you can also visit us on our website at dying to be found.com.
And that's actually spelling the whole thing out.
So I'm going to try to get some consistency there.
We're getting started.
I'm excited.
That's excited.
What is going on in your neck of the woods?
I was working afternoons yesterday and their evenings and I get off work at 11 and drive
40 kilometers an hour home, which what that might be about 30 miles an hour.
I get into my parking space.
I got stuck.
So I had to back out and I had to shovel just to park my car.
Oh, my gosh.
I live in the United States and there was an incident a couple of years ago where I
was trying to be a good wife and I was running my car up and down the driveway to kind of
make tracks because I don't know if you've ever done that, Beth.
One of the reasons why I've never moved back to Canada is because I don't want to get up
at six o'clock in the morning to shovel.
But I can't believe you had to shovel to get into your parking space.
So when I was backing up and going up and down so that the tire marks were leaving like a
track so that John could come in and park, I ended up doing a 180 and slamming into my
mailbox.
You all my sister dropped off.
She's not even in this meeting anymore.
Hold that thought.
It looks like hopefully she is going to be able to log back on.
So in the meantime, just be kind.
I have this saying on my wall and it's all about just being kind and kindness will follow
you.
I just wanted you all to think about that.
That's not here yet.
Okay.
So this is what I remember about Beth when we were growing up.
She's my older sister and I was the youngest.
So if anybody out there is the youngest, you know, you get babied a lot.
We have three sisters.
It's Beth and then my other sister and then myself.
Well, it always seemed like Beth and I used to gang up on our other sister.
Her name is Kathy, by the way.
But in the meantime, it was either always Beth and me against Kathy or Kathy and me
against Beth.
Who came out the winner here?
I'm thinking it was me.
Welcome back, Beth.
We've been talking about you.
You have?
I've been telling everybody about our childhood a little bit.
Oh, I guess you're going to have to listen to find out.
I guess I will.
My computer keeps freezing and then it crashes.
Oh, gosh.
Well, we're in episode one and you guys were learning.
It's a teachable moment for Beth and myself on how to do a podcast, but it's going to
be one of the best because we're going to take on North America.
Right?
Right.
OK, do you want to finish telling me about the snow?
Because I think I got sidetracked and told you about my 180 and smashing the mailbox.
So as I was moving into my spot, I couldn't get in.
So I parked it out a little ways and I continued shoveling.
And then I went to drive around a little block so that I could just run right into the snow
so I wouldn't get stuck.
And in the meantime.
Wait, are you talking about taking a running start into the snow?
Yeah.
OK, keep going.
My dear husband with his huge massive truck happened to be in the parking spot because
he just got home from his afternoon shift.
So he went back and forth, back and forth with some of his big wheels like I did.
Yeah.
But he's probably got those snow tires on.
I didn't because I live in America where we don't get much snow.
You all I have not lived in Canada as a grown adult.
I don't even think I had my driver's license.
But Beth, do you have to shovel your driveway, like shoveled your area just to get out every
morning to go to work?
Depends on the winter.
That's why I don't move up north anymore.
What else you want to talk about?
Anything or should we get going?
Well, we may as well get going.
OK, let's get going.
I want to talk about Susan Smith.
Do you ever remember watching that show Criminal Minds?
Oh, yeah.
At the very beginning of that show, there's like a mosaic of people's mug shots.
And I kept zoning in on one person in particular.
I could not put my finger on who that person was until I literally started doing the research
on this case that I'm going to talk about today, which is Susan Smith from South Carolina.
Do you know much about her or just what was in the news?
Just what was in the news.
OK, so I'll just kind of get started in her early life and move through high school.
She was born Susan Lee Vaughn Smith on September 26th, 1971.
Her parents names were Linda Sue Harrison and Harry Vaughn.
They lived in Union, South Carolina, which is just east of Greenville.
Greenville is a pretty big hub in South Carolina.
So she lived just east of Greenville.
She was the youngest of three children.
She had two older brothers and grew up in an extremely dysfunctional household.
Even though her parents argued in front of the kids all the time, Susan kept her dad
on a pedestal.
Unfortunately, when she was seven years old, he did commit suicide after her parents divorce.
I can imagine losing a parent at that age could be pretty detrimental.
From there, she was a little bit destructive.
And a few years later, her mom ended up marrying another man who, when Susan was 16, the stepdad
at that point molested her.
She reported this abuse to her counselor and her mother.
Social services did nothing.
There is speculation that Susan may have been convinced to drop the charges.
I'm sure that was quite awkward for the people in the house.
Okay, so in high school, as Susan got a little bit older, she did become somewhat promiscuous
and even began relationships with married men.
But on the good note, though, as a good civilian, as we all are trying to do our duty and volunteer
services in high school, she belonged to Civetan Club, which is known for community service.
And the senior yearbook had her titled as the friendliest female.
So I couldn't really find much more about that.
So I'm really not sure if there's those two things tied in about her promiscuity, but
we'll just call her the friendliest female.
She eventually ended up marrying David Smith on March 15, 1991, after she told David that
she was pregnant with her first child.
The couple's first son was Michael Daniel Smith, and he was born on October 10, 1991.
Just four months later, in March of 1992, Susan and David separated, but they continued
their on again off again relationship.
They remained married, but they were separated and they frequently had affairs while they
were married.
On November 1992, I guess this is when they were no longer on a break.
Susan ended up getting pregnant again with Alexander Tyler Smith, who was born August
5, 1993.
So she had two little ones pretty close in age together, trying to work it out with her
husband.
But because Susan had a history, she was continuing to have those marital affairs after the boys
were born.
And then in 1994, Susan began having an affair with her boss's son.
He basically told Susan that he did not want to get married.
He did not want to have any kids.
He did not want to deal with Susan's kids.
So I guess my question to you, Beth, is how long would you stay in a relationship with
somebody who just blatantly says, yeah, I don't really want to deal with your kids?
Zip nada.
Okay, so believe it or not, she actually got a dear Jane letter.
And if you're old enough to know a dear John or dear Jane letter before all these emails
came out, well, Susan was the recipient of one pretty much saying everything that I had
just mentioned about him not wanting to have any kids or dealing with hers.
Based on Susan's background, Beth, what do you think was starting to go through Susan's
head at this point?
I mean, okay, we're talking about rejection, where we think we love someone, but they don't
love us.
What do you think was going on in her in her head?
Do you know anybody who's been in a situation like that?
Did she tell Tom that she would leave her husband?
Well, I mean, that would be great if she would leave her husband, but she didn't want to
leave the boys with David.
She said no, it was not going to stop there.
She just decided that no, I'm not going to say anything to my husband.
There's no reason to leave him.
But after receiving that dear Jane letter, Susan unfortunately contemplated self harm
and did not want her boys to suffer because of what she witnessed when she was a child
when her dad completed suicide.
I'm not in this situation.
I've never been in this situation.
I don't know anybody in this situation, but it just seems to me like you're young and
you just think that that one person in your life is all that.
Well, you know, you're going to do everything that you can to try to make it work, right?
At least from your end.
For sure.
So on October 25th of 1994, Susan drove home, got both kids and just began driving around
around eight o'clock at that night.
Have you ever gotten in the car with your kids just to drive around?
I mean, I have known people, especially if you have like a colicky baby or something.
And sometimes those car rides are very soothing.
Have you ever put your kids in the car just to drive around?
I mean, it could be because that was a good, fast way for them to fall asleep.
I remember one time when my son, probably around two years old, wouldn't fall asleep
when we were in a cottage.
So we took him for long rides.
We took turns, my husband and I, to drive around and it was moose territory.
And that's what crossed our minds.
Oh my gosh, are we going to hit a moose?
Holy cow.
We went back and forth a couple of times.
The kid never slept.
Oh, no, I don't think I've ever done that.
My kids were pretty good.
Question for you, Beth, don't you have a boat?
Yes.
Okay.
Boating off and on Lake Huron.
Okay.
That was my ocean growing up.
I'm just kind of bringing that up about boating because are you good with measurement?
Not at all.
Oh gosh, me neither, Beth.
Whenever I use the GPS, I swear I have to look at that picture so closely.
I cannot tell you how many turns I've missed.
I still use MapQuest.
I have a car that doesn't have a GPS and I prefer the map.
Dad taught us on maps and how to read them and I'm a map girl.
Susan was driving around that night and around nine o'clock, you remember she was in the
car for an hour or so.
She came up on a lake.
It was called John D Long Lake.
I personally live in a water ridden area, so I've passed a few boat ramps myself and
I do see that they're pretty long.
So she drove onto a 75 foot boat ramp at the John D Long Lake and then she decided she
was going to stop halfway down and get out of her car with both kids still strapped to
the seat.
Okay.
Do you see anything wrong with this picture yet?
Yeah.
She's just going to take a break, get out of the car, maybe walk around the car for
a minute.
Why she decided to park the car on the ramp is beyond me.
She didn't stop there.
She just stood there and watched as her car went into the lake.
So she pretty much just left the kids in the back seat strapped in while she got out of
the car and watched it roll down halfway down that 75 foot boat ramp into the water.
Me personally, I can't imagine the scenario of just sitting there watching that happen.
It's unfathomable to me.
It is to your own children.
Yeah.
And 10 minutes later she recovered because she was found crying on someone's porch about
a quarter of a mile away.
What am I thinking when I'm walking away from watching my children go down a, I guess at
that point, 35 foot boat ramp and walking a quarter of a mile, you guys that's going
around the track one time, how long does that take you?
And she gets to the porch about a quarter of a mile away from the boat ramp and told
the homeowner that there was an African-American male that had jumped in her car while she
was just sitting at a red light, minding her own business, then stole her car with her
children inside.
I kind of want you to remember that I had mentioned the red light Beth, because that
kind of comes into play.
Okay.
So police have a job to do.
I'm going to say they're probably pretty good at it if they've been in policing for a while,
but they became very suspicious pretty much from the get go because remember the red light
that I just told you to remember that Susan was sitting at, right?
Right.
So you've probably come up to red lights before where there's like a little trigger or something
like a sensor.
So you're sitting there at the light and then you're coming up on it.
And then all of a sudden the light turns green.
This light in a very small town in union, South Carolina, basically had one of those
triggers and it was impossible for Susan to be at the red light because as you were coming
up on the light, the light censored it.
And then you just drive through the light would be green by the time you actually came
to the intersection.
She did say she was sitting at that red light, but the evidence shows that that was clearly
impossible and that never happened through the entire ordeal of the kids being missing.
David Smith did stand by Susan's side and he believed that her account of the whole
ordeal.
Okay.
So if I'm married to somebody like this and the kids disappear, I mean, I can kind of
get it.
Would you be in the same boat?
I feel okay.
In his defense, she is my wife.
I think, okay, well, I don't really know what's happening, but I'm definitely going to listen
to what she has to say about it.
So I definitely don't put as far as any blame in this situation.
I can't see that David could take any blame.
He just stood by her side and believed her because she's his wife, right?
Yeah.
A good liar too.
Oh, absolutely.
Or is she?
Two days after the boy's disappearance, both Susan and David Smith took a polygraph because
of those suspicions that they had on Susan's story about what happened at the intersection.
They both took it.
David passed his polygraph with flying colors, but Susan's polygraph showed deception, especially
when she was asked if she knew the whereabouts of her two boys.
I don't know how long it takes to take a polygraph, but I cannot imagine answering these questions
and literally saying, I do not know where my boys are at.
And then too, I don't know if how the laws are in Canada because again, I haven't been
there in a while, but you can't use a polygraph here in America.
It won't hold up in court because you know, some of them are considered to be unreliable.
I don't believe that they can use the results here either.
But isn't that still though, even though you can't use it in court, isn't that a great
tool to use to get people to confess?
Yes.
I think, you know, we're building up on the pressure here.
For the next nine days, Susan went on national news with her husband and begged the mysterious
carjacker to please return her children safely.
And during one of her interviews, Susan literally said, whoever did this is a sick, emotionally
unstable person.
I actually threw in a couple pictures into some notes here that I'm going through.
And I did this so that you can envision some of the photos of her sitting on the couch
while she's being interviewed.
Have you ever seen anybody interviewed on the news that's fake crying?
Yeah, I can think of a couple.
All this stuff is coming up.
And when I did my research, I did actually go and look at some of these videos again.
Yeah, she's still fake crying almost 30 years later.
The community became just as suspicious because the population of Union, South Carolina was
approximately 70% Caucasian and 30% African American.
Think about that.
I don't know what kind of community you have as far as diversity, Beth, but when you have
70, 30, then many of the people in that community felt that it was a little bit unbelievable
because someone would notice an African American man driving around with two Caucasian children
in the backseat.
I guess there was just a lot of speculation on that.
The sketch artist also felt that Susan was being deceptive.
So sounds to me like the only person standing by her right now is her husband as well.
He probably should.
But the sketch artist felt that Susan was being deceptive because she was just too vague.
I actually added this sketch into our notes as we're talking here and I wanted to get
your feedback.
What do you think about this sketch?
Well, a couple of things.
It's pretty basic.
There is nothing that really stands out about the picture.
And two, why does she have a profile view?
Is it because she was sitting next to him?
The sketches I've seen are usually facing forward.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
I don't think I've ever seen a sketch of somebody that everybody's trying to look out for.
I've never seen a profile view.
It's average.
There's no distinguishing features between the lie detector test and the sketch artist
and the community.
Susan was crumbling at that point.
On November 3rd, 1994, Susan was pretty much confronted by the authorities about all these
inconsistencies in her story.
So she finally broke down and admitted everything that happened.
She had got her Dear Jane letter.
She drove around to just think about things, strapped those poor children in the car, got
to the lake and got out of the car with the kids strapped inside, 75 foot ramp.
Now she was only at about 35, probably 40 feet at the very most.
But think about how much velocity that's going to be coming up off that car as it's speeding
down that ramp.
Earlier when the kids were still missing, the police actually were looking.
They went ahead and swept that lake, but they only, and I couldn't find any reasons why,
but they went out only 30 feet.
Because of that velocity of the car speeding down the ramp, the car actually drifted out
to about 60 feet.
The community's response that came from all of this was that Susan's brother was somewhat
vocal.
He apologized to the African American community and said that Susan's actions did not really
reflect what was going on.
Where he stood in the family, he did not want Susan's accusations to cause division in the
community between Caucasian and African American Christian groups or the community.
The Christian groups were also saying the same thing.
They had a couple of preachers in town that were pretty much saying that on Sunday morning
at their church that they needed to be forgiving.
This was not the time to divide the community.
And that's pretty much what Susan's brother said.
So I have got to just applaud that community because what a time to come together.
I think that there's just so much bias and things going on.
And this could definitely have really put a wedge into the community.
But bravo to them that everybody came together on this.
On November 6th, 1994, Michael Smith and Alexander Smith were buried together in a coffin.
Then Susan went on to her trial after that.
All right.
So during her sentencing, about eight months before Susan's trial, she was kept on watch
in the jail because they were afraid that she was going to harm herself.
Although Susan was clearly suffering from various mental disorders, she was still found
fit to stand trial.
And prosecutors originally sought the death penalty that required a unanimous vote from
the jury.
And after five days of testimony, it took the jury less than three hours to come back
with the guilty plea.
She was sentenced to 30 years to life in prison where she sits today.
Here comes David Smith again.
Oh my gosh.
My heart goes out to him.
He had such a traumatic event happen in his life, but he's been strong.
And he actually said during the trial or after the trial and Susan was sentenced to the 30
years to life in prison, that David did not agree with the jury's decision of that life
in prison, but he respected it.
He's since moved on.
I read somewhere that he didn't think he ever could move on, but the beautiful outcome of
this is that he did eventually have another daughter and a son and he's doing really well
today.
That's nice to hear.
Yeah.
That is excellent.
Just coming to coming back to Susan, she was initially sent to the Camille Griffin Graham
Correctional Facility in Columbia, South Carolina.
But while she was there, imagine this, Beth, she had sexual relations with a couple of
the guards.
There she is.
Of course she did.
Still the pattern, right?
Yeah.
She was moved to the Leith Correctional Institute in Greenwood County, South Carolina.
But in the midst of all this, I feel like human beings are still social creatures.
Everybody should have a chance at love, right?
She posted a personal profile on writeaconvict.com, but it was later taken down.
That's good.
She shouldn't have been able to do that.
Wait, was it good that she posted on writeaconvict.com?
No.
I just want to know how in the world she posted on writeaconvict.com.
Do they have like a public library on the facility that they could go to and just sign
up?
Probably did.
Anyway, there we have it.
So she's still sitting in the Leith Correctional Institute in Greenville, South Carolina and
is up for parole.
Get this on November 4th, 2024.
So that's two and a half years from now.
I don't think she should be paroled when you do something like that so serious, and especially
to your own children and lying to the community.
Oh yeah, for sure.
I think she needs to pay for her actions.
Well, I found a letter because I went back and I researched a little bit more and she
did write a letter about this entire ordeal because journaling is very therapeutic and
good for the soul, right?
Yeah.
I thought that I could probably read the Epser- how do you say that?
I'm going to read the letter.
You're doing good.
I'm going to read this letter from Susan.
It's dated in 1999.
Here we go.
When I left my home on Tuesday, October 25th, I was very emotionally distraught.
I did not want to live anymore!
I felt like things could never get any worse.
When I left home, I was going to ride around a little while and then I would just go to
my mom's.
As I rode and rode and rode, I felt that even more anxiety was coming up upon me.
I no longer wanted to live.
I felt I couldn't be a good mom anymore, but I didn't want my children to grow up without
a mom.
I felt I had to end our lives to protect us all from any grief or harm.
And then she scribbled out something.
I'm not sure.
I can't even see what it says.
I have never felt so lonely and so sad in my entire life.
I was in love with someone very much, but he didn't love me and never would.
I had a very difficult time accepting that, but I had hurt him very much and I could see
why he could never be me.
I think that she meant never be with me.
When I was at John D. Long Lake, I had never felt so scared and unsure as I did then.
I wanted to end my life so bad.
I was in my car, ready to go down that ramp into the water and I did go part way, but
I stopped.
I went again and stopped.
I then got out of the car and stood by the car, a nervous wreck.
Why was I feeling this way?
Why was everything so bad in my life?
I had no answers to these questions.
I dropped to the lowest when I allowed my children to go down that ramp into the water
without me.
You know what?
I think I'm done reading.
There's a whole nother paragraph here.
If anybody wants to see this, you can actually find this online.
It is dated 11-3-1999.
I don't think I want to listen to that anymore.
What do you think?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
I get it.
She needs to stay in jail.
Yeah.
Well, two and a half years.
We'll see her driving around.
Okay.
With that being said, that's our very first podcast and that's our very first story.
What other thoughts do you have?
Any thoughts about the story itself, Beth?
No, I just keep going back to thinking of those two boys as mom was watching them go
down.
It's cruel.
It's just unimaginable.
Yeah, for sure.
Okay.
Well, goodness.
You know what we haven't talked about?
How do we end these things?
There you have it.
Our first podcast.
I'm sorry it was so grim.
If you guys are looking to listen to anything that has to do with missing people, anywhere
that we can maybe spread some hope, give you guys the things that you want to listen to,
by all means, you can email us at DyingToBeFound at gmail.com and you can visit us on social
media at Twitter and Instagram at DyingToBeFound and then also go visit our website at DyingToBeFound.
Sounds good.
Okay.
We are.
Keep listening.
million.