1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,240 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:12,000 episodes may contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,320 and or humankind. Listener discretion is strongly advised. 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:32,960 I said we'd be back and here we are. Thank you so much for hanging in with us. We did take a 5 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:39,200 little hiatus to work on other amazing projects that I have already gotten out there on social 6 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:45,840 media. Mary Ann, also known as the social detective, and I are partnering up to bring you a 7 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:52,240 different kind of podcast where we advocate to create a much needed change in our criminal 8 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:58,880 and social justice systems. Now, there are six brand new episodes out there waiting for you 9 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:04,960 at Insinuation Podcast. Be sure to check that out wherever you find your podcasts at. I think 10 00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:11,280 you're really going to like it. In the meantime, Dying to be Found is entering our third season 11 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:17,920 where family members will still be dropping in. Only we are going to bring you monthly episodes 12 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:24,960 instead of weekly and we appreciate everyone who has reached out to say, please do not stop 13 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:31,200 with your episodes because we love Dying to be Found and I appreciate that. So we heard you, 14 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:36,800 we're listening, we're just going to be dropping once a month because I did discover the importance 15 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,640 to work on my own self-care by spreading out my time. I do love you all too much to stop now 16 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:50,160 and today my daughter Shelby is joining me here for our season three opener. Hi Shelby, how are you? 17 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,680 Hello, I'm so good. I was just thinking while you were reading kind of the intro that we have not 18 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:02,160 recorded since we were getting ready to go to Jodi Massina. That was back in February. 19 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,120 Yeah, all right. You ready to get started? I know that people don't like small talk so we're just 20 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:13,280 going to get going here. Yep, I'm ready. I think that we could both say that as human beings we 21 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:22,080 do go through growing pains mainly around those teenage years. Wouldn't you agree Shelby? Absolutely. 22 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:29,520 I feel like teenagers on all sides of the teenage spectrum. Yes and they do say what goes around 23 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:35,200 comes around tenfold. Twice for me. Well I'm not going to lie you tested me a little bit during 24 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:41,200 your teenage years and I'm glad that we can laugh about it now because I was thinking about this 25 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:47,760 Shelby and as Forrest Gump says, life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're going 26 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:54,960 to get. But in the end I do feel like I have my best friend here with me today. Oh same. Yeah, 27 00:02:54,960 --> 00:03:01,360 yeah. So how is teenage life going for you at home? So far I would say the last week has been 28 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:08,320 pretty quiet. Just the last week? The last few months have been a complete roller coaster. 29 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,000 Yes, I know and you never know when that's going to happen either do you? No. Life is full of 30 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:21,520 surprises. Well today we are going to be talking about Lyle and Eric Menendez, two brothers living 31 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:29,120 in California who spoiler alert Shelby ended up killing both of their parents back in 1989. 32 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:36,000 I remember this. How do you know this story? Because I love true crime. Oh I got you. Okay, 33 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:45,200 we're going to get into that act in just a little bit but as I was researching this case I was 34 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:52,160 seeing a lot of articles dated just this year Shelby. So there looks like there's new movement 35 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:59,120 in this case which leads me to believe that the Menendez brothers may be released from prison 36 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:05,600 sooner rather than later. Really? Yeah, have you not seen anything in the news? I have not. I think 37 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,440 because I was researching I came across those articles and I was very surprised because I know 38 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,960 what they did. I know they should be serving out the rest of their life in prison but we don't know 39 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,440 that for sure and I will go back to the beginning right now but we'll get into that a little bit 40 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:30,480 later. Joseph Lyle Menendez was born on January 10th 1968 to Jose and Mary Louise also known as 41 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:38,400 Kitty whom I will reference for the rest of this episode and Eric Galen Menendez was born two years 42 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:47,040 later on November 27th 1970. The two boys came from a very affluent background. Their grandfather 43 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:53,520 played for a professional soccer team in Cuba and their mother was a swimmer who was elected to Cuba's 44 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:59,360 Hall of Fame. I thought that was really interesting. That is interesting. I knew they were wealthy I 45 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:06,880 didn't know how though. Yeah exactly me too. Well their son Jose Menendez which is Lyle and Eric's 46 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:13,520 father eventually migrated to the United States when he was 16 years old during the Cuban Revolution. 47 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:19,840 Oh that's close to the age that I migrated to the United States huh. Jose followed in his parents 48 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:26,240 footsteps by earning a swimming scholarship during college in the United States where he met his 49 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:35,600 beauty queen future wife Mary Louise Kitty Anderson. Jose eventually went out to work as a CPA before 50 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:43,040 getting into the music industry where he became the head of RCA Records. During his tenure with 51 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:49,920 RCA Records he did give a few bands their start and you may have heard of them a Shelby more so 52 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:57,280 80s music and that was my era Duran Duran and the Eurythmics. These are two of my favorite bands 53 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:03,040 and I don't know if you've heard of this one it's a Puerto Rican band. Menudo have you heard of them? 54 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:09,040 No I have not I don't think I've heard of the Eurythmics either I know Duran Duran. Okay well 55 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:16,080 Menudo I believe had Ricky Martin in the band like it was like a boy band of its time so yeah 56 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,960 I think that's where he got his start. This band will come up briefly a little bit later in the 57 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:28,400 episode but for now as Jose continued to climb the corporate ladder he eventually moved his family 58 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:35,600 from New Jersey to Los Angeles where he worked in the entertainment industry in music and as a film 59 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:43,760 executive so he's just really expanding his reach here which is cool. By 1988 Jose's net worth was 60 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:52,960 14 million dollars that's back in 1988 so you know that's a ton of cash today. Oh for sure yeah and 61 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:59,520 his family could certainly afford the luxurious lifestyle of the rich and famous. Jose purchased 62 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:06,480 a family home in Beverly Hills living amongst some of the most elite artists like Michael Jackson 63 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:12,240 and Elton John. Could you imagine having Michael Jackson or Elton John in your neighborhood? 64 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:20,720 I could not. That is pretty cool because here in the Atlanta area it's not uncommon for people to 65 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:27,120 have Atlanta Braves living in your neighborhood or Atlanta Falcons. Well I'm nowhere near the big 66 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,240 city so I don't think there's probably anybody famous that lives within a hundred mile radius 67 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,600 of me. Probably not but I think that there was a famous baseball player that started out in one of 68 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:43,360 your towns nearby. Catfish Hunter. Yeah Catfish Hunter. All right well let's talk about Jose's 69 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:48,560 personality for a moment. I think it's important to set the scene here based on later court 70 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:56,000 testimonies. Jose was known to be a bit of a jerk around town. I mean a lot of people work their way 71 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,600 to the top through sheer ruthlessness. I think in the corporate world that's pretty much how you do 72 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,440 it. You step on people on the way up right? Oh for sure. Although Jose was very intelligent and 73 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:14,880 business savvy his co-workers on the whole disliked him. Oh I know I mean I'm sure you've worked with 74 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:21,200 people that you didn't like. I know I have. I certainly have. It's difficult. Yeah I hope that 75 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,480 nobody would ever look at me and think that. I always try to be very respectful. I do have my 76 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:34,960 days. Yesterday was one of them. I think there's a difference though of being diplomatic in your 77 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,000 approach to communication versus just being a jerk. You know what I mean? Oh for sure yeah. 78 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:47,600 So the general consensus was that Jose did come across as rude, arrogant, and pretty abrasive 79 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:53,680 during his interactions with others. And this didn't just happen in the workplace. Jose was 80 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:59,920 also known to be very stern with his two boys Lyle and Eric while they were growing up. I was just 81 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:05,920 thinking before you went to this paragraph that I bet that that rude, arrogant, abrasive you know 82 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:11,360 behavior was definitely coming home too. Oh yeah it's ingrained in the personality I think. You're 83 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:17,200 not going to change from one personality to the next just because you're in work versus home 84 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:24,880 environments. Unfortunately for Kitty he had lots of extramarital affairs and didn't really treat 85 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:30,640 Kitty much differently from their children. I did find a few articles where he was abusive towards 86 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:38,480 her but more so towards the boys. As the Menendez brothers grew up Lyle began playing tennis and did 87 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:44,160 pretty well. He was naturally ranked in his age group and I'm thinking about this Shelby because 88 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:50,480 you play travel softball so you know you have those age groups that you're in. And he seemed to be 89 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,080 following in Jose's footsteps as a successful businessman as well because you know he's older, 90 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:03,920 he's in his 20s so he's beginning to find his way in life. I don't think Lyle was doing this on his 91 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:10,720 own though due to his competitive nature Jose worked Lyle very hard at tennis practice. So 92 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:18,320 there's a little bit of a difference between Lyle and Eric because Eric was a swimmer. He's 93 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:25,360 following in his mother's footsteps. One of Eric's swimming coaches had told a reporter at some point 94 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:32,320 in time that Jose was one of those overbearing parents on the sidelines who interfered with 95 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:39,120 Eric's performance which really damaged Eric's self-confidence. Oh goodness now that's tough 96 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:44,880 Shelby and here's why. I just mentioned that you played travel softball. I mean me personally I 97 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,560 stayed away from parents like that. I saw them out on the field and some of the kids that you 98 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:58,080 played with had a hard time meeting the expectations of their very own parents and that is why I kept 99 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,360 books. I just needed to stay away from all that. Grown-ups are terrible about the drama. Exactly. 100 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:09,520 Oh my gosh just these you know high school soccer games. I remember one game in particular Ian's 101 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:15,840 senior year and it was you know these parents are cussing on the sidelines and some of these kids 102 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,720 on the field are 15 years old. You know they're ninth graders. It's so sad. I mean I can only 103 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:26,560 imagine if they're not you know meeting performance expectations during the event what are those kids 104 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:31,600 having to hear on the way home and that's just not right. Yeah I don't think I ever did that to you. 105 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,880 I think it's just like you know you're talented. You go do your thing. You know I was very proud 106 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,560 of you but if you had a bad day you had a bad day. Oh yeah everybody's entitled to that. Yeah nobody's 107 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:49,200 perfect. All right well we're going to go ahead and skip ahead to August 18th 1989 when Lyle 108 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:56,480 age 21 at the time and Eric age 18 took a road trip to San Diego and stopped at a local sporting 109 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:02,480 goods store to make a purchase. Two grown adults just going for a ride Shelby and I do want to 110 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:10,240 kind of emphasize that both of them are considered adults even though Eric just turned 18. He's in my 111 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:18,400 mind still a teenager really doesn't have that maturity level with him yet but then Lyle is 21. 112 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,360 I mean he's still getting there but has a few years on Eric and I wanted to give you a little 113 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:30,240 bit of a perspective on this drive. The distance between Los Angeles where they lived in San Diego 114 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:39,120 was about 120 miles or 193 kilometers which took about two hours to travel. I mean honestly that's 115 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:44,480 nothing because you live in the car I live in the car we love our road trips right. Yes we do I 116 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,840 actually that's about the mileage I had to drive last weekend to go get my kid. Well this wasn't 117 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:57,200 just any old road trip the two men and I say men because they are they had gone on a mission to 118 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:04,560 purchase some 12 gauge shotguns that they would use two days later to pump 15 rounds into the 119 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:11,200 parents as they sat watching television and I mean Jose and Kitty were watching television. 120 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:18,000 The brothers didn't purchase handguns Shelby they purchased rifles that are known for home defense 121 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:24,800 and also for hunting large game birds or military defense. Those are the kind of weapons that these 122 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:31,360 two men purchased on a two-hour road trip. They had the intent to kill there was no maybe they'll 123 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:37,920 make it through it. Oh yeah totally premeditated. Well one day after those shotguns were purchased 124 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:44,960 Jose and Kitty took Lyle and Eric out on a yachting excursion for the day just one day and then one 125 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:51,360 day later after that Shelby the brothers executed both parents as they were in the living room 126 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:58,400 watching a television show winding down for the day. That's horrific. It is they never saw it coming. 127 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:05,760 Nope. Now immediately following this ambush the Menendez brothers changed into clean clothes. 128 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:11,440 They went to a local movie theater to purchase Batman tickets. They dumped the guns that they 129 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:19,440 had just used to kill their parents and headed back home only to air quote discover their parents 130 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:26,800 had been murdered. Wow. Now Lyle was the one to call 911 saying that someone had killed their 131 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:33,440 parents while he and Eric were out for the night. So here the investigation begins. Of course the 132 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,560 brothers are going to be questioned on their whereabouts during the evening. They devised 133 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:44,960 their story so well of going out to the movie theater that nobody really questioned it. And I 134 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:52,080 do kind of want to point out to Shelby that this was 1989 well before closed circuit television 135 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:59,360 and the true crime explosion where everybody's watching you know things were a little bit simpler 136 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:07,600 back then and taking their word for it I think was a big factor as well. When police first arrived on 137 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:15,120 scene they found Eric sobbing on the front lawn of his parents home when responding to that 911 138 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:23,840 call. Of course these two very clean cut wealthy boys could have nothing to do with this right. 139 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:31,920 Good acting. For sure. Now although there was no sign of forced entry neither Lyle nor Eric were on 140 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:38,320 the investigators radar. I had just mentioned it was a simpler time simpler life these kids are 141 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:44,720 coming from a wealthy background. They were never even tested for gunshot residue. Besides going to 142 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:51,760 the movies Lyle and Eric also threw in that they had to backtrack to pick up Eric's ID. I guess they 143 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:58,480 wanted that little bit of cushion as far as timing. They had said that he had left that behind before 144 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:05,040 heading back and making their discovery. Investigators either believed the brothers and simply did not 145 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:11,840 follow up or they just didn't follow up with any of the movie theater employees to corroborate this 146 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:18,320 story because I found that a little odd that the police would not go and interview any of the 147 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:25,840 employees to verify that Eric and Lyle had showed back up to get an ID because they would have had 148 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:31,600 something behind the counter in the lost and found. Police just didn't follow up on this. 149 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,120 Yeah that's a hard spot for them to be in. I mean when you have two wealthy parents that just 150 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:43,120 parents in general that have just died at that kind of manner and then the last thing that I would 151 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:48,320 think is that it'd be their kids. Oh yes. But I guess that's why when you're a law enforcement 152 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:54,720 you have to put those feelings aside. Well we do know that based on Eric's demeanor immediately 153 00:16:54,720 --> 00:17:01,520 following his parents murder plus during the police interviews that he was just straight up a mess. 154 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:08,480 And this was Eric. Lyle on the other hand was calm cool and collected throughout the entire 155 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:15,280 investigation and even suggested at some point that he believed that it could have been a mob hit. 156 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:21,040 Of course he made that suggestion Shelby about the mob because he had just killed his parents 157 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:27,120 and you could not act your way out of this one. No that'd be really hard. It seems like Eric though 158 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:33,120 you know they had so much adrenaline leading up to the moment and during the moment of that happening 159 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:39,120 and it's probably just set in with him like oh my gosh like they are gone they're not coming back. 160 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:45,600 Yeah and I don't know the dynamics of the brothers relationship. I mean typically siblings are very 161 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:52,080 close but clearly Lyle is the leader here because he was the one that was following in his dad's 162 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:58,080 footsteps as far as a businessman. Eric was still on the young side and I would consider to be just 163 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:04,800 a little bit of a follower. But Lyle and Eric continue to stick to their story over the next 164 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:11,760 six months. That of being at the movies when their parents were murdered. But here are where things 165 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:18,320 get a little bit strange and you can say that Lyle and Eric's behavior became a little bizarre 166 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:24,640 became a little bizarre in that six-month period Shelby. On the day of Jose and Kitty's funeral 167 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,080 Lyle showed off some shoes that he was wearing during his limo ride. He happened to be sharing 168 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,400 this limo with Jose's secretary and a few others and thought it would be great to break the ice 169 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:42,240 and engage in some small talk. During the limo ride Lyle pointed at the loafers that he had 170 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:49,920 taken from his own father's closet to wear at the funeral and nonchalantly asked his fellow passengers 171 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:57,040 quote who said I couldn't fill my father's shoes unquote. Lyle then went on to wonder aloud how he 172 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:03,520 could get tickets to the US Open which was scheduled to take place August 28th through 173 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:09,680 September 10th 1989 just three days after Jose and Kitty's funeral. In case you don't know what 174 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:15,440 the US Open is it's a big tennis tournament and going from here Shelby things just became a little 175 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:22,640 suss because as Lyle and Eric continued to live the high life for the next six months they did 176 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:29,360 go on living their best life after killing their parents like nothing ever happened because just 177 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:35,920 six days after their parents death Lyle decided to go on a shopping spree that would clearly cheer 178 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:42,320 him up I mean what better thing to do besides go to the US Open go do some shopping. I'm curious 179 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:48,240 because you know I see this a lot at work when you have a lot of money you have financial advisors 180 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:54,880 involved and you know there's trust set up and and all of that kind of stuff so did they and maybe 181 00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:01,760 you'll get to this but are they stealing the credit cards from the parents do they have an allowance 182 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:07,360 I'm just wondering where they're getting this money from. I did not see one article that said 183 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:14,320 that they have a trustee so I'm going to assume they were using credit cards but I'm not there 184 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,440 I don't know specifically it was just very clear that they were going on shopping sprees because 185 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:27,840 they came up with some pretty good merchandise they paid over $15,000 for not one but three 186 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:34,400 Rolex watches. I have a lot of other things in mind that I could spend $15,000 on and it does 187 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:40,800 not involve three watches. No it sure doesn't that doesn't even buy a car these days but back then it 188 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,440 was a pretty big chunk they could buy the watches and they probably didn't think twice about it 189 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:52,320 because the money was running fluidly I think through the house now Lyle and Eric moved out 190 00:20:52,320 --> 00:21:00,000 of their 3.5 million dollar home and that's about 7.5 million dollars today Shelby and went to stay 191 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:07,040 in expensive hotels before leasing a condominium where they had adjoining apartments to make sure 192 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:14,880 that they always had enough room to party and I'd ask why they didn't just stay in their LA home but 193 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:21,360 it was probably still taped off they could have been giving off the persona that they did not want 194 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:26,000 to stay there with the trauma that they endured I mean I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why they 195 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:32,240 did not just stay in the family home yeah if I had offed someone like that I wouldn't want to stay 196 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:39,680 there either not that I would ever do that well like Lyle Eric also enjoyed his Rolexes but he 197 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:46,320 also liked to gamble Eric hired a tennis coach to hopefully help him get good enough to go pro 198 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:53,440 but remember Shelby Eric is 18 years old and he was the swimmer between the two brothers to me 199 00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:00,000 he started a little bit too late to go pro in tennis but he did fly to the Middle East to compete 200 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:07,280 in some tournaments in all Lyle and Eric spent a minimum of 1 million dollars from their parents' 201 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,960 estate in about six months while going on all those shopping sprees and various excursions 202 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:20,880 Eric had decided not to attend UCLA where he was scheduled to attend in the fall he opted for those 203 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:29,200 professional tennis lessons which by the way cost sixty thousand dollars he invested in a rock concert 204 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:35,040 that never happened and bought himself a Jeep Wrangler Lyle returned to Princeton University 205 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:41,760 in New Jersey but it was just for show Shelby he continued on with more shopping sprees which 206 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,440 consisted of buying clothes a Porsche and a restaurant that he had hoped would eventually 207 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:54,880 turn into a franchise under his newly formed LLC called Menendez Investment Enterprises 208 00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:01,440 that's a great name and if he's business savvy aside from the fact of what he's dealing with 209 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:07,280 and what he's hiding behind he had some good ventures there oh yeah especially you know at 210 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:15,440 a younger age for good measure Lyle and Eric made one more investment they both began therapy with 211 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:22,400 Dr. Jerome Ozeal to help get themselves through their parents' death Dr. Ozeal was already known 212 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:29,840 to Eric because a year earlier he had burglarized some homes in Los Angeles and was court ordered 213 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:35,920 to attend therapy in order to avoid jail time okay you see what money can buy here it gets you out 214 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:42,080 of jail free just go to a therapy session or two right and you're free yeah not just anybody is 215 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,960 going to be given that option I'm gonna say if they burglarized a home they're gonna go to jail 216 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:54,960 at least for a year do some community service but nope not the Menendez brothers now we know 217 00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:01,920 that all good things eventually come to an end and during all of this shopping partying and shaking 218 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:08,880 Jose and Kitty's money tree Eric was really beginning to unravel internally he was the one 219 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:16,560 on the front lawn visibly upset when the police came that night and cracks from the pressure of 220 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:23,520 what he and Lyle had done were beginning to form Eric ultimately developed an ulcer from all the 221 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,440 stress of keeping their dirty little secret I get it some people just can't handle the pressure 222 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:36,560 especially at this level of secrecy but yeah he was becoming physically sick over all of this and 223 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:43,840 I can understand why during one of his therapy sessions with Dr. Oseale Eric spilled it all and 224 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:51,040 confessed everything wow now we do know that there is doctor client privileges and typically a 225 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:57,360 therapist is not obligated to report what was said during a patient's therapy session I think this is 226 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:04,240 an exception though yeah you would think but Eric probably felt safe in doing so in that space 227 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:11,840 because he was probably aware of those privileges and Dr. Oseale did hold up his end of the bargain 228 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,040 at least as far as reporting the Menendez brothers to the authorities he didn't do it 229 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:24,640 it was his mistress whom he had confided in who reported Lyle and Eric to the police Dr. Oseale 230 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:32,640 had let her listen to one of Lyle and Eric's taped therapy sessions wow I know right can you imagine 231 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:38,000 oh my goodness I have the juiciest gossip you're just not gonna believe this listen to what I 232 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,960 recorded could you imagine somebody coming to you and letting you listen to something like that and 233 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:49,120 then swear to secrecy not to tell right no all right well don't think that his mistress was doing 234 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:55,120 anything right here because apparently she and her lover had a somewhat tumultuous relationship 235 00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:03,120 and immediately following an alleged attack by the good doctor she took her copies yes I said 236 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:10,400 copies she had copies of this tape she took the copies of Eric and Lyle's take confessions from 237 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:17,680 that therapy session straight to the police how in the world did she get copies how did she get 238 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,920 copies I mean if she's at home and he's at work I'm sure that she did a little digging snooping 239 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:29,600 around got the little tape recorder out easy to do when you had cassette tapes shelves you wouldn't 240 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:39,280 understand I know what that is I watched the Long Island medium she uses those oh wow on March 8th 241 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:48,160 1990 203 days after Jose and Kitty's murder Lyle Menendez was arrested authorities could not yet 242 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:54,320 arrest Eric in the same day because he was currently in Israel playing a tennis match 243 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:02,080 news did reach him however that Lyle had been arrested and Eric flew home voluntarily where he 244 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:10,480 too was arrested for the murders of his parents on March 11th 1990 so three days after Lyle even 245 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:16,480 though the Menendez brothers were arrested for what we call as parasite that's another word for 246 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:24,000 the murder of one's parents the case stalled for several years Lyle and Eric would later be tried 247 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:30,240 at the same time but they did have separate trials so that they each had their own jury and 248 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,680 that they each had their own jury the judge overseeing this case originally ruled that 249 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:43,280 portions from both Lyle's and Eric's taped therapy sessions would be admissible in court after Eric 250 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:51,040 was heard threatening Dr. Oseal's life during one of his taped therapy sessions this in turn broke 251 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:59,360 the doctor patient confidentiality oh my god I know right well defense lawyers appealed this ruling 252 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:06,320 and the case dragged on for another 30 months until the supreme court weighed in and said get 253 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:12,160 on with it these men are entitled to a speedy trial I get it I mean that is one of the things 254 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:18,000 that's supposedly great about the United States is that you are entitled to a speedy trial but 255 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,800 you hear about so many people remaining behind bars for years before that trial gets started 256 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:30,240 um-hmm defined speedy will you great two of the three therapy sessions were ruled admissible as 257 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:37,680 evidence one of which contained Lyle's own words saying what he had done Eric was also heard on 258 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:46,560 these tapes that although he fired first Lyle fired best on December 7th 1992 the Menendez 259 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:53,840 Brothers trial began the news media went into a frenzy and court tv had round the clock coverage 260 00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:02,240 of the trial plus additional commentaries before and after each day's testimonies and Shelby this 261 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:09,120 is really where the door opened up to true crime drama because court tv made a name for itself 262 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:17,120 during this trial which had come just before the infamous OJ Simpson trial back in 1994 I could see 263 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:23,120 that yeah I mean I remember it was all over everything was live and I'd be running home and 264 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,960 turning on the tv and seeing what I could pick up since I had just worked eight hours and it was a 265 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:35,600 constant at this point in time the sensationalism of this trial was pretty crazy both parents were 266 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:43,200 murdered by two handsome young rich white men dressed in pastel sweaters during their trial 267 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,320 and that was a big talking point too the news media was all over how the Menendez Brothers 268 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:55,920 dressed for their trials really some of the key talking points during their trial are as follows 269 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:03,680 defense attorney Leslie Abramson set the stage with the story of both brothers enduring years 270 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:11,600 enduring years of verbal and sexual abuse from a highly controlling father now up until this point 271 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:20,720 Shelby not one word of sexual abuse but when the trial began their lawyer really argued that point 272 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:27,200 Lyle testified that he had been molested by his father between the ages of six and eight Eric 273 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:34,240 testified that he was molested as well beginning at the age of eight but continuously through the 274 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:41,600 age of 18 therefore Lyle and Eric killed both parents in self-defense I don't think I was 275 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:49,760 self-defense yeah I'm sure there are legalities involved with that statement right there because 276 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,360 I didn't see anything where the boys were being physically attacked when they committed the 277 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:01,120 murders I'm not really sure but I'm just thinking Kitty got in the middle of this I think the mom 278 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:08,320 was stuck in the middle too I really do I mean you can only do so much to protect your children from 279 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:14,320 an angry father who had that personality type that I had described I'm sure that he didn't like it 280 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:22,240 too much if she got involved now Abramson also painted Kitty as an alcoholic and drug addict 281 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,720 who was devastated by her ever cheating husband remember Shelby he didn't really hide his 282 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,480 extra marital affairs from his wife it was a constant in their relationship so she just dealt 283 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:41,280 with that openly the best that she could Abramson also went on to argue that Lyle and Eric simply 284 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,400 could not take it anymore and they had decided just weeks before the murders that they were 285 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,560 going to confront Jose with their allegations of abuse but when it was all said and done 286 00:31:53,120 --> 00:32:01,520 Eric's jury deadlocked on a verdict on January 10th 1994 Lyle's jury deadlocked two weeks later 287 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:10,160 both cases were declared a mistrial and prosecutors and the defense had to start all over again wow 288 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:17,360 this has gone on forever it really did go on a very long time and I almost think this is probably 289 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:24,240 why you remember it because it took seven years to find Lyle and Eric Menendez guilty of murdering 290 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:30,320 their parents so this would have been on the news when you were growing up now it did take that 291 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:36,000 seven years because during their first trial both Lyle and Eric's lawyers painted that rather 292 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,080 disturbing picture of the boys upbringing in the Menendez household now remember that I had told 293 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,480 you about Jose's personality how his co-workers perceived him to be somewhat of a jerk the 294 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:55,680 brothers stated that they were going to confront Jose with the sexual assault allegations with the 295 00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:02,880 intentions of making this go public if Jose did not stop so it sounds to me like they were planning 296 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:09,040 to blackmail him maybe that's what it sounds like just let me repeat this I had mentioned this at 297 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:16,640 the beginning of this episode Lyle was 21 Eric was 18 so I'm a little bit surprised I'm not going to 298 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:24,320 say that it was an easy decision but why are they waiting until now to confront Jose here I'm sure 299 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,440 there's a lot of reasons why they were waiting and things can build up you can only take so much 300 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:36,560 right well with Lyle being 21 it makes me wonder if there was a little alcohol encouragement yeah 301 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,920 I never thought of that well for good measure don't forget Lyle and Eric had taken that road 302 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:48,800 trip down to San Diego a four-hour round trip from Los Angeles to purchase those shotguns in fear 303 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:55,040 of retaliation from Jose you know because he was a jerk that to me I thought was a little strange 304 00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,720 a little strange as well for the fact that they went ahead and made that trip because they were 305 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,720 already thinking Jose was going to retaliate I mean when you're being accused of doing something 306 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,720 like that Jose was probably going to blow up pretty big oh yeah well the brothers did what they did 307 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:19,680 and their first trial was televised for the world to see the general public didn't like the defense's 308 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:26,000 argument about the Menendez brothers being sexually abused and neither did the prosecutors 309 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:33,600 now here's why Lyle and Eric went on that one million dollar spending spree and partied it up 310 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:39,200 for six months after they had just killed their parents the brothers were perceived to be whining 311 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:45,280 on the stand while giving their testimony their temperaments did not come across as showing real 312 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:52,160 emotion so a lot of people felt that they were just acting the whole time which gave the general 313 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:58,480 public and most likely the jury members the impression that things simply were not adding 314 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:05,760 up here and besides that Shelby not one therapist friend or family member got on the stand to 315 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:13,440 corroborate the brothers allegations of sexual abuse by their father now I once again never will 316 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:19,840 discount that this type of abuse occurs Shelby if this was Lyle and Eric's truth I'm not here to 317 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:26,800 judge it child molestation is despicable and no one should ever get away with that unfortunately 318 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:34,080 Lyle and Eric didn't just come across as believable when they went on the stand to testify you know 319 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:40,800 how people look upset and even act like they're crying but you never see those tears that's how 320 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:47,920 they came across on the stand that was the public's image now the public really wasn't having any of 321 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:56,800 it and in October 1993 while the trial was still going on John Malkovich you know him right no 322 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:02,480 I don't famous actor oh you've never heard of John Malkovich okay you can go look him up but he is a 323 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:10,160 famous actor you know how actors typically go on Saturday Night Live well he played Lyle Menendez 324 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:17,840 on Saturday Night Live speaking in a very flat voice and fake crying and the live audience 325 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:23,520 absolutely loved it I think there's a lot of misconceptions there too I mean if you're going 326 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,560 to talk about insinuations like my insinuation podcast I mean that's the whole thing is there's 327 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:35,600 so many insinuations here and people are jumping to conclusions you just have to get all the facts 328 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:41,920 before you should do that so going into both cases Shelby we know that there was a declared 329 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:48,640 mistrial the second trial took place in 1995 only this time the judge overseeing the trial 330 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:56,480 refused to allow tv cameras in the courtroom for any of this second go-round because we saw what a 331 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:02,560 circus it was the first go-round the judge I think used a little bit of discretion that second time 332 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,400 he felt there was too much publicity from that first trial which could have been one of the 333 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,240 reasons why the juries resulted in deadlock I kind of agree with that because it really was 334 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:21,440 quite a circus yeah I think he made a smart decision he also ruled that there was insufficient 335 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:29,200 evidence of any alleged abuse by Jose against his boys nor the possibility that Lyle and Eric 336 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:35,440 had killed in self-defense out of fear okay so you know what I mean I kind of wonder this too 337 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:44,320 did he get some of his of his own predispositions because of what he saw on this televised court 338 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:50,240 case before he became the judge in the second trial I kind of wondered that that's possible 339 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:57,200 now remember how I told you the band Muno would come out into play here yes well one of the band 340 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:03,600 members eventually came forward years later to say that he too had been sexually abused by 341 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:12,080 Jose Menendez so this is now opening the Menendez brothers original allegations into question so 342 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:18,240 the judge is saying I'm not really sure there's enough evidence but a famous band member comes 343 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:24,160 forward to say hey this happened to me too so I guess my question is is why did he not come 344 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:31,200 forward sooner during the first trial we'll never know and again that's his truth and you can't ever 345 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:37,040 really judge anybody as to why they're not going to say anything I was just curious as to why he 346 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:44,640 waited until the second trial seven years and two trials later Lyle and Eric Menendez were both found 347 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,720 guilty of murdering their parents and both were convicted of two counts of first degree murder 348 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:57,280 Lyle and Eric were sentenced to two consecutive life terms in prison without the possibility of 349 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:03,600 parole California's like that man if you get sentenced for life you will live and die in prison 350 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:10,080 wow gosh they're so young I know they really were because we're going to jump ahead to today's day 351 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:18,640 and age Lyle is currently 55 Eric is 52 they are now both housed in the same correctional facility 352 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:25,600 in San Diego initially Shelby when they first went off to prison they were sent to separate prisons 353 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:34,480 but they were reunited in 2018 both Lyle and Eric work on campus on beautification projects plus 354 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:40,800 council inmates who were sexually abused wow I mean they're doing good things behind bars 355 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:48,320 what it sounds like yeah and Lyle went on to get credentials in sociology so he has earned a bachelor's 356 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:55,840 degree while behind bars which Shelby I actually do love when I hear that inmates do go on to get 357 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:02,240 a degree because they are rehabilitating and it does sound like he is trying to be proactive 358 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:09,920 in his own ways oh for sure Lyle and Eric eventually married Lyle married a former model 359 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,920 but soon divorced when he began to have another relationship with a different woman whom he 360 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:22,160 eventually married in 2003 and is still married to today wow there's always somebody that's going 361 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:31,840 to contact an inmate Eric married a pen pal in 1999 and is still married as well wow I mean are 362 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:38,960 you happy for them uh yeah yeah it sounds like they're doing good things okay I don't know they're 363 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:45,040 put in such a hard situation I think and I think that they're just trying to make the best of it 364 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:50,320 I think so too yeah I mean they are definitely being proactive but don't think we're done 365 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:57,040 because here comes the twist remember Shelby at the very beginning of this episode when I told 366 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:04,640 you that there were a ton of new articles on the Menendez brothers case as in this year yes Lyle 367 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:12,560 had told Rosie O'Donnell in a September 2023 interview that if he ever gets out of prison 368 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:18,960 he will continue on with his life's work to help rehabilitate inmates who are victims of sexual 369 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:27,680 abuse in March 2024 Newsweek reported that Fox Nation was streaming a four-part series about 370 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:35,040 this case Lyle is quoted in numerous recent articles saying that he and Eric should have 371 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:42,320 received an eight to ten year conviction for manslaughter at best but wound up receiving a 372 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:49,360 sentence comparable to a serial killer he's not wrong but I'm kind of sensing a little bit of 373 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:55,840 entitlement here after 35 years what are your thoughts to that I'm curious as to not what he 374 00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:02,400 has to say but if that's actually true because I mean they were so young and I don't know the 375 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:09,680 stipulations really between first second degree murder versus manslaughter but to me I think two 376 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:17,200 consecutive life sentences like I mean what they did was very very serious but I do think that it 377 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,960 was a little harsh for coming just considering what they went through as children how other 378 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:31,200 people perceived how you know Jose was treating them I think it was harsh definitely guilty yeah 379 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:38,080 definitely and it was a cut-and-dry case but there's so many different elements and factors 380 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:44,720 involved like how the sexual abuse came up later during the trial that was never mentioned before 381 00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:50,240 but then you're dealing with these young men who just lost their parents but they're out partying 382 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:57,680 so you just have to go with the facts right now let me tell you in my opinion just from everything 383 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,040 that I've read Lyle Menendez seems to be the spokesperson these days because Shelby you're 384 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:08,880 not going to believe this you and I talked about going to CrimeCon in Nashville this year we did 385 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:17,760 we didn't make it but guess who did Lyle Lyle oh Lyle participated in a telephone interview 386 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:23,760 at CrimeCon in Nashville Tennessee which I did actually go look up and listen to it for a few 387 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:30,400 minutes and I mean he's a very well versed man again I think that there's a lot of information 388 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:36,640 coming out right now because the brothers have been trying to prove that the abuse from their 389 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:43,360 father really did happen and again if this is their truth it needs to be validated but here are some 390 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:50,320 arguments that I believe Shelby Lyle and Eric do deserve to have their cases revisited number one 391 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:57,280 I had mentioned the Menudo band member who came forward with those allegations that Jose had also 392 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:05,360 abused him so that's new evidence that was never presented at trial number one Eric Menendez wrote 393 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:14,320 a letter to his cousin back in 1988 a year before these murders occurred which happened to resurface 394 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:21,360 in 2018 and corroborates the fact that the brothers had been sexually abused he had written a letter 395 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:27,040 to his cousin to say hey this is going on the letter lay tucked in a drawer somewhere until 396 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:34,240 2018 when it was discovered I believe Eric's cousin is deceased at this point in time so when 397 00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:40,640 his family members were going through his things I believe that's when they found it now both Lyle 398 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:46,560 and Eric have always maintained that they killed their parents through self-defense after suffering 399 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:57,280 from their abuse and PTSD wow Shelby did I mention PTSD one time during this episode no yeah so 400 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:04,640 psychology today references numerous legal cases that can potentially back up the Mendez brothers 401 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:12,640 claims of parental abuse New Jersey State versus Kelly in 1984 refers to a case where a woman's 402 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:18,880 murder conviction was overturned on appeal after it was determined that she had suffered from 403 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:28,000 battered spouse syndrome Rogers versus Florida State in 1993 states that PTSD should have been 404 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:34,560 considered during the Menendez brothers trials not once was that brought up in court and I 405 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:41,280 don't know if you could even reference cases that took place after a murder trial which the Menendez 406 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:48,720 brothers trials occurred in 1989 but I don't know if you can use these on appeal years later I suppose 407 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:57,840 you could because hindsight being the fact that PTSD was never introduced into the boys trials 408 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:05,360 but there's another case New Jersey State versus Hines in 1997 also referenced how an expert was 409 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:12,000 never asked to testify on the effects of PTSD when a defendant was convicted of manslaughter 410 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:19,120 after being abused by her father for years so similar to the Rogers versus Florida State 411 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:27,120 attorneys can come back later and argue that defense lawyers from 1989 were incompetent 412 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:33,040 kind of agree with that because they never had experts on the witness stands they never referenced 413 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:40,560 PTSD no and I totally think that could be a factor I do too which I believe is why this case is coming 414 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:48,640 up back in the news in May of 2024 Lyle and Eric's attorneys began making the argument that based on 415 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:57,440 Eric's letter to his cousin in 1988 both brothers were being unlawfully imprisoned I mean if they 416 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:04,320 win holy cow Shelby look out there's going to be another lawsuit oh yes what it sounds like 417 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:10,320 there's currently something on Paramount Plus that's streaming called the Menendez brothers 418 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:15,840 fight for freedom so if you want to know more about this case absolutely go and watch that 419 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:22,240 as we wait for the new judge's decision in 2024 I have not watched it I do get Paramount Plus 420 00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:27,120 so I do have this on my viewing list I just haven't gotten to it yet yeah I'd be interested 421 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:32,960 to watch it yeah I mean I guess because too he was just at Crime Con as well pretty much talking 422 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:38,960 about the same thing I really find it fascinating that this case is coming back into the news 423 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:44,400 headlines yeah me too you know I think they deserve a second chance at life and I'm interested in 424 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:49,440 watching the new streaming I'm pretty sure a few years ago that that's where I learned about 425 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:55,280 this case was there was some kind of documentary on ID channel so it'd be interesting to kind of 426 00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:03,200 see it turn around a little bit all right well that in a nutshell is the story of the Menendez 427 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:10,480 brothers one of the infamous cases that gave court tv its name and opened the door to true crime 428 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:17,360 podcasters like us we would love to receive feedback on this storyline or any of our other 429 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:23,120 episodes so make sure you dms on instagram so there you have it shelves right well thank you 430 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:28,480 for sharing the story with us today do you have a teachable moment I believe I do gosh it's been a 431 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:34,480 while since I've had a teachable moment here I can't help but to think that this case never 432 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:40,800 should have gotten as far as it did Jose and Kitty's murders never should have happened children 433 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:47,200 who are sexually abused are far more likely to experience emotional challenges later in life 434 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:54,560 clearly that happened with the Menendez brothers and traumas such as what Lyle and Eric allegedly 435 00:48:54,560 --> 00:49:01,760 endured do interfere with future relationships Shelby according to the independent inquiry 436 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:08,720 child sexual abuse organization sexual abuse is also linked with physical challenges such as 437 00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:16,960 hypertension chronic fatigue malnutrition mobility and problems with reproductive systems and child 438 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:25,040 birth so there are lifelong challenges here we just need to be mindful of all the warning signs 439 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:32,080 which can be a very long list of both psychological and physical I just encourage our listeners to go 440 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:38,960 look up the warning signs then be mindful if any of these pop up amongst someone that you know it 441 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:44,640 could be a family member or even a child in the neighborhood don't be afraid to pick up the phone 442 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,560 and report it to the authorities if you truly believe that someone is being sexually abused 443 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:56,880 it's better to have someone investigated and come up with unsubstantial findings rather than the 444 00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:03,440 other way around which clearly happened here in the Menendez brothers case and that's my teachable 445 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:09,120 moment I think that's a good one thanks well thanks for listening to dying to be found true 446 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:16,080 crime podcast before we go we would love for you to follow us on tiktok instagram twitter facebook 447 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:21,760 and pinterest at dying to be found if you have a storyline that you would like to hear click on 448 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:27,680 our link tree account found in our show notes where you can also find our social media website 449 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:33,120 address and a little bit more don't forget to give us that five star review to help us out in the 450 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:46,960 ratings talk to you soon 451 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:03,760 you