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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted

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to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals

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and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the

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content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, thanks for joining me on Dying to be Found True Crime Podcast. If this is

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your first time listening, you found us at part 2 of Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma

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City bombing. Today's episode is going to be pretty phenomenal, but I would recommend

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that you go back to listen to part 1 because I would say that that's a prequel to who

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Timothy McVeigh is and how he turned out to be one of the most prolific mass murderers

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known in US history. It's been a while since we've done a two-parter, but let me start

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off with a very quick recap. In part 1, we talked about Timothy McVeigh's early life

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and career in the United States Army. And I'm not going to lie, I actually found myself

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feeling very sorry for McVeigh for some of the circumstances that he faced early in his

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life, but I'll never ever feel sorry for him as the monster that he turned into. After

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a stellar career in the military as a decorated soldier, Timothy McVeigh ultimately suffered

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from PTSD during a tour of duty in the Gulf War back in the 1990s. His growing paranoia

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against the US government began to surface after leaving the military, as you will find

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out today. That may have had a smidgen to do with what he did in Oklahoma City. I'm

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leaning a little bit more toward the fact that he was just another wackadoodle with

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a vengeance to pay and his sights were on the US government. On the morning of April

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19, 1995, after two years of careful planning, Timothy McVeigh drove a Ryder rental truck

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filled with almost 5,000 pounds of explosives into Oklahoma City, Oklahoma and parked it

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at the entrance of the Elford P. Murrah Federal Building downtown. McVeigh got out of his

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vehicle and simply walked away. At 9.02 a.m. that morning, the van exploded, taking down

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one third of the Federal Building and killing 149 adults, 19 children and injuring over

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800 more. By mid-afternoon on April 19, 1995, a command center was established with 190

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telephone lines taking in tips on the explosion. Bomb squads were deployed, SWAT teams were

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installed for security detail, and Oklahoma City began swarming with investigators and

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FBI agents. Officials needed to secure the perimeters of the city, divvy out local emergency

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crews and manage what information was going to be released to the public. American news

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media outlets immediately began speculating what had happened that morning. They originally

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reported speculation on a natural gas explosion, but later theorized that this was a terroristic

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attack brought on by the Middle East. And of course, this can be compared to the 9-11

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attack that occurred in New York City six years after the Oklahoma City event. But let

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me put this into perspective for you. The Oklahoma City bombing was and still is considered

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the deadliest domestic act of violence within the United States comparative to the 9-11

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attacks. Police quickly established that whoever had done this had done so by using a truck

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bomb. Police acted quickly and during their initial investigation, they began accumulating

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multiple vehicle parts that looked like they were a part of the plot to bring down the

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federal building. So investigators were able to put the puzzle pieces together rather quickly

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in this case. Just one day after this attack, the rear axle of a rental truck was located

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two blocks away from the detonation site. The good news here is that according to the

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FBI, this truck axle provided investigators with an ID number, which they were able to

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trace back to a body shop in Junction City, Kansas. Junction City is located approximately

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273 miles or 439 kilometers away from Oklahoma City and is somewhere around a four hour drive.

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So McVeigh had a lot of time to think about what he was about to do here on his way to

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his target. He had time to abort this mission if he really wanted to, but unfortunately

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this was not the case. With the help of the body shop employees, the FBI was able to put

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together a composite of the man seen driving this rental truck. When questioned, a Junction

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City motel owner recognized the television sketch of a man from eyewitness accounts.

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The motel owner quickly called police after seeing the news report and positively identified

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Timothy McVeigh through his guest registration records, making McVeigh the authorities number

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one suspect. Once authorities discovered McVeigh's identity, they found that he was already incarcerated

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in Perry, Oklahoma. McVeigh had been pulled over by Officer Charlie Hanger, an Oklahoma

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highway patrolman, just 90 minutes after the Oklahoma City bombing because McVeigh did

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not have a license plate on the car he was driving. The only reason that McVeigh was

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still behind bars when authorities tracked him there is because the judge who McVeigh

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would have gone before encountered a delay before court proceedings began the next day.

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His son had missed the school bus and the judge had to drive him to school that morning.

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If it had not been for this very small bit of fate, McVeigh would have likely been released

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for his misdemeanor charge of driving without proper vehicle equipment.

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On the morning of April 19, 1995, McVeigh was pulled over in a resting yellow 1977 Mercury

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Marquis sedan about 80 miles or 128 kilometers just outside of Oklahoma City. It's unclear

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if this car was rented, borrowed, or stolen, but it wasn't in great condition, which

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may have been one of the reasons why it captured Officer Hanger's attention.

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When McVeigh was first pulled over, Officer Hanger stayed back near his own vehicle as

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he asked the driver to get out of the car. Officer Hanger was no rookie here because

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he was super observant on several accounts. As McVeigh exited his vehicle, Hanger observed

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him to be a tall, slender, clean-cut young man wearing military boots, a windbreaker,

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and a t-shirt with a quote that read, The Tree of Liberty must from time to time be

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refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

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When Hanger told McVeigh that he was being pulled over for no license plate, McVeigh

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seemed genuinely surprised. Hanger found it odd that McVeigh looked toward the back of

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the vehicle to see if there was indeed no license plate. Given these circumstances,

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Hanger immediately began watching McVeigh's body language.

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McVeigh did not have proof of insurance nor a car registration. He told Officer Hanger

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that he was in between residence but was headed back to Arkansas to retrieve his belongings.

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Still observant, Officer Hanger did not see any kind of suitcase or traveling supplies

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from his vantage point, so when McVeigh indicated that he was currently on a road trip, things

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just weren't adding up and Hanger asked to see McVeigh's driver's license.

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As McVeigh reached for his wallet, Officer Hanger noticed a bulge in McVeigh's shoulder

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as his windbreaker tightened. We know windbreakers are typically made of nylon and don't stretch,

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so to Hanger, this was a good indication that McVeigh was carrying a concealed weapon.

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This was the turning point of the two men's exchange. According to Hanger, things became

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very tense in a matter of seconds, which McVeigh seemed to sense as well. McVeigh and Hanger

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locked eyes, then McVeigh said that his gun was loaded. Officer Hanger replied back,

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So is mine.

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For whatever reason things took a turn, call it fate, call it divine intervention, Officer

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Hanger was able to keep the situation under control as he placed Timothy McVeigh under

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arrest and got him into the back of his patrol car.

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So many things could have gone wrong here, because as it turned out, Timothy McVeigh

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did indeed have a loaded Glock under his windbreaker.

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Let's not forget what we discussed in our first episode, which is the fact that McVeigh

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was a trained military vet who possessed the natural ability to take down his intended

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target and was on the fast track to join the US Army's elite special forces. He could

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have easily fought back, but why he didn't, we'll never know.

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McVeigh was promptly arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. As it turns out, he also

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had a hunting knife on his belt. Once Officer Hanger had McVeigh detained, he was transported

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over to the county jail. During that drive, McVeigh made small talk by asking Hanger how

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fast his police car would go and what kind of gun he carried. Remember, he was all about

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bearing arms so he was probably quite knowledgeable on this topic. Again, was he calculating his

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next move?

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Hanger thought that this was all just nervous chatter, not knowing until hours later that

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he had just arrested the most wanted man in America.

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Remember now, Officer Hanger was out on patrol, so when he initially stopped McVeigh for no

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license plate, he had not yet received a full report on the Oklahoma City bombing, nor had

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he seen the police sketch that was quickly circulating on national television. Hanger

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later said that if he had not been so observant during his interactions with McVeigh, he only

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planned to let him off with a ticket.

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Now when you're first booked into jail, all of your belongings are bagged and tagged, and

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you are given a lovely striped or orange jumpsuit to wear while you're awaiting your time before

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the judge. McVeigh was fingerprinted, all of his things were checked in, so of course

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everything was readily available to turn over to authorities by the time the FBI arrived.

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McVeigh's belongings were confiscated and immediately tested for chemicals used in the

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explosion of the Elford P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. When testing foreign

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substances, the forensics teams matched traces of the same chemicals used in the explosion

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on McVeigh's clothing, plus a set of earplugs and a business card which read, TNT at $5

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per stick. Need more.

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You know, and I know, in the United States that you are supposedly innocent of a crime

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until you're proven guilty. So authorities quickly went to work putting their case together

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against Timothy McVeigh. Over the next 32 months, the FBI left no stone unturned. They

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logged more than 1 million hours of investigated resources. Authorities conducted more than

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28,000 interviews and followed 43,000 leads. They collected 3.5 tons of evidence, searched

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for more than 13.2 million hotel registration records, 3.1 rental vehicle records, and over

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682,000 airline reservations. By the end of this investigation, the Oklahoma City bombing

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was considered to be one of the FBI's most exhaustive domestic terrorism cases in U.S.

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history. And thank goodness they caught McVeigh so quickly because we'll never know how much

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more damage or what other plots he could have been working on at the time. Remember, he

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had a vendetta against the U.S. government due to his beliefs that his right to bear

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arms were being impeded upon. So let's back up just a little bit. In part one of this

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two-part series, I made a very brief reference on two of McVeigh's Army buddies that he

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went to go visit a time or two in Michigan and Arizona. During their investigation, the

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FBI uncovered the names of these two men and quickly linked them as accomplices to the

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Oklahoma City bombing. Terry Nichols, one of these men, first met Timothy McVeigh during

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their military enlistment, and they shared the same beliefs and conspiracy theories by

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the U.S. government. Nichols was identified as helping Timothy McVeigh build the truck

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bomb that took the majority of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building down. When authorities

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came to search Nichols' home in Arizona, they discovered a receipt for 2,000 pounds

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of fertilizer plus Timothy McVeigh's fingerprints on that receipt. Terry Nichols was later found

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guilty of conspiracy and eight counts of manslaughter later that year. He was sentenced to life

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in prison with no possibility of parole. The second person of interest connected to the

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Oklahoma City bombing was Michael Fortier, McVeigh's Army buddy from Michigan, who was

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also in on the plot to attack the federal government. Fortier was told of McVeigh's plans to place

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explosives inside a truck but kept this information to himself. Instead of going to the authorities,

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Fortier helped McVeigh scope out the federal building and helped raise money to finance

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the bombing by selling stolen guns out of his vehicle. After all was said and done,

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Fortier was fined $200,000 and 12 years behind bars for failing to warn authorities that

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the Oklahoma bombing was about to take place, plus lying to authorities after the commission

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of this crime. On October 10, 1995, both Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were indicted on

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11 counts of conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction to kill human beings and

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to destroy federal property which resulted in death or grievous bodily injury, malicious

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destruction of federal property through the use of explosives, and eight counts of first-degree

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murder of federal law enforcement officers. McVeigh would spend the next two years behind

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bars awaiting his trial. Over the next several months while incarcerated,

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Timothy McVeigh wrote a few letters to the newspaper in his hometown where he actually

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expressed remorse over the amount of lives that he had taken during his attack. McVeigh

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wrote to the Buffalo News outlet saying, quote, I am sorry for those people who have lost

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their lives, but that's the nature of the beast, unquote. He went on to say that the

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bombing was a legitimate tactic in his war against the US government, but wished that

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he had, quote, put his marksmanship to use instead of focusing on police and government

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assassinations, unquote. Although McVeigh seemingly took ownership for his actions,

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he made comparisons between the 19 children he was responsible for killing in the Oklahoma

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City bombing with Harry Truman's orders to drop two atomic bombs on Hiroshima, Japan,

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in order to save lives. So was he truly remorseful or was he simply

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proving his point by bragging that he had successfully pulled off such a tragic event

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of mass destruction? In all, those atomic bombs killed 200,000 people, mostly women

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and children, who were considered collateral damage. McVeigh said his actions were a small

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price to pay in comparison. Timothy McVeigh's trial began on April 24,

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1997, where he was found guilty of all charges on June 2 that same year.

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One hundred and thirty-seven witnesses took the stand to testify against McVeigh, including

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Michael Fortier, one of the two men who had aided McVeigh in this plot of destruction.

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It took the jurors 23 hours over four days to find Timothy James McVeigh guilty on all

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counts. McVeigh did not have one family member present in the courtroom when the verdict

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was read. He received the death penalty and was transferred

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from his holding cell in the U.S. Penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana, and was escorted

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to the execution chamber where he was administered a lethal injection on June 11, 2001. This

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procedure took four minutes. McVeigh made no public statement before his

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death. He did, however, have a handwritten poem at his execution. The poem that was read

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was titled Invictus by W. E. Henley, and it read,

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Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole,

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I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.

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Those present at McVeigh's execution did not recognize this poem and thought that McVeigh

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had written this himself. However, this poem, which is titled Invictus, was written by William

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Ernest Henley, a late 19th century English poet. McVeigh had written down the very first

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verse of this poem, and many people feel that he was indicating that he had acted in selfless

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and heroic deeds. McVeigh was then given his last rites by a

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Catholic priest and pronounced dead in the early morning hours of June 10, 2001. He expressed

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the desire to have his ashes spread over the Branch Davidian in Waco, Texas, but also considered

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having his ashes scattered at the Oklahoma City bombing memorial site.

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Now, before you get angry about this, McVeigh decided against the latter because he thought

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it was too vengeful. Well, this ends the story of Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing.

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Let's end with one of my teachable moments here. And that's to love the ones you're

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with, because you don't know when the last time is going to be when you will ever talk

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with them. On April 19, 1995, 149 adults, 19 children,

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and over 800 more injured got up to go about their day as usual. They had their coffee,

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ate their breakfast, drove to work or daycare, and probably had plans that afternoon with

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friends or family. None of them made it home, except for the ones who were fortunate to

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survive the Oklahoma City bombing that day. We tend to take things for granted that we

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will live a long, healthy life and die of old age and natural causes. But go to the

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Center of Disease Control or your State Department's transportation websites and you'll see just

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how many people woke up today with a plan but never made it home.

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I'm grateful that I'm still here. I'm grateful that you were here with me. We live our lives

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with no guarantees, so make the best of it and love the ones you're with. And that's

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my teachable moment. All right, we would love to receive feedback

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from our listeners on this storyline or any of our episodes. Be sure to DM us on Instagram

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to let us know what you think. Check out our link tree in our show notes to find out more

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about Dying to be Found podcast. And before we go, I want to tell you about our brand

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new docu-series scheduled to drop in just a couple of weeks called Insinuation, which

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you can find on Instagram and TikTok now at Insinuation podcast. Insinuation is a different

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kind of podcast where I'm teaming up with Mary Ann from Social Detective podcast to

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help bring awareness to a broken justice system. Dying to be Found will be taking a hiatus

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as we get this project underway because I feel very strongly about making a difference

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to help the innocent. And if you know Mary Ann, she gets things done. So keep watching

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social media as we get Insinuation podcast up and running and be sure to follow us on

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Instagram and TikTok. I've got one more episode coming to you for our Dying to be Found series

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where my daughter Shelby and I get together in the same room. I don't know what the sound

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quality is going to be like, but you are not going to want to miss it. Be sure to tune

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in next Thursday as I bring Shelby and one final crazy case to our series finale. I'm

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sure that I will be dropping additional episodes. So keep watching us on social media at Dying

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to be Found and talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. Before we

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go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Be sure

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to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. You can

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access our website, email, social media and storyline request form by clicking on our

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Linktree account found in our show notes. If you like our episodes, consider buying

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us a coffee at BuyMeACoffee.com slash Dying to be Found spelled just like you see it on

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our logo. Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. With that,

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be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. We will talk to you

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all next week.

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Be Whether It Isant, Dying to Be Found