1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,200 What do you get when you mix someone who loves true crime and horror movies with someone who's afraid of their own shadow? 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:14,400 Someone like you? Yeah. I'm glad you asked. You get the perfect podcast. We're Carmen and Joanna of Live, Laugh, Murder podcast. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,800 We're not your typical true crime show. Here at Live, Laugh, Murder 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,960 we tell stories that might be true crime or they might be the plot of a horror film. 5 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:28,960 Can you tell the difference? Don't worry though because all is revealed by the end. We are true crime, 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:36,360 sometimes. So check us out. We release bi-weekly on Saturdays. And remember to live, laugh, 7 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:40,640 but never what Joanna? Murder. Never murder. Thanks guys. Thanks. 8 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,200 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, 9 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:54,800 I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 10 00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:01,280 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 11 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,800 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 12 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:22,400 Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host from the true crime podcast, Dying to be Found. 13 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:28,040 I want to welcome you to The Dash, which is a collection of shorter true story crimes 14 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,360 than you usually hear on our podcast. Like you've seen in our promos, 15 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,720 things are a little bit different this season. So I hope you enjoy these little snippets. 16 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,320 I'll be your solo host for some of these episodes because to be honest with you, 17 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:46,040 I am going to allow you to be my guinea pigs here. 18 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,320 But the cool thing is is that I've lined up a great group of fellow 19 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:56,920 podcasters to help me out as a chance to highlight some of my favorite podcasters in our true crime community. 20 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:02,720 And today I have Carmen here to join me from Live Laugh Murder. So here we go. 21 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:09,120 Hi guys. Yes, I'm Carmen. Nice to see you. Hi, nice to see you too. Or hear ya. Yeah. 22 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,120 Absolutely. Carmen is just half of the duo of Live Laugh Murder and her co-host 23 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,320 Joanna was not able to join us today, but big shout out to you, Joanna. 24 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,560 I had a chance to talk with you a couple of weeks ago. So I'm sure we'll talk another time. We miss you, Joanna. 25 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:31,160 Yeah, she'd probably do better than what I know I'm going to do in a little bit later when you give us a taste of your 26 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:38,800 podcast, but I'm excited and I'm so glad you're here to join us today. Awesome. Before we dash into my storyline, 27 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:45,600 I thought I'd give you an opportunity to tell our listeners about Live Laugh Murder. So I've got some questions for you. 28 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:51,720 Well, thank you so much for having me us here on Joanna's Here in Spirit. We really appreciate it. 29 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,360 So yeah, we love your show and we're excited. Great. Great. Great. 30 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:01,840 All right. So let me just ask you just some basic questions and then we'll kind of go into a little bit more with your 31 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,880 podcast. But I just I'm curious to know always when I talk to other podcasters, first of all, 32 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,040 how do they know their show hosts and what made you guys decide to start a podcast together? 33 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:17,480 Well, Joanna and I met about five or six years ago through mutual friends. And you know, as you get older, 34 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:23,640 it's harder to find those deep relationships and we became very just fast friends. 35 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:30,160 It was like we spoke the same language and we just clicked right away. I love that. Yeah, we met at a happy hour one night 36 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:36,400 and we just got to talking and we never stopped five or six years later. Oh, I love that even more. Yeah. 37 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:43,040 And then when it came time to, you know, thinking about the podcast, I really was the one who started thinking about it 38 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:48,360 during the pandemic. I think like a lot of people, I really got into podcasts and just listening to them while I was 39 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:55,320 cooking or driving or whatever. And true crime just got me. And at first, I just was playing around with the idea, 40 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:01,080 you know, what if I started a podcast? What would I talk about? And I would share with Brett, my partner, and he and I 41 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:06,960 would joke about it at first. And after a little bit of research, I thought this might be possible. And you know, 42 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,160 YouTube school taught me that it was possible. 43 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:17,640 That's awesome. That kind of goes into my next question, because I wanted to know how you came up with the concept of true 44 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,560 crime and movie ply because that is like really a great concept. 45 00:04:21,580 --> 00:04:28,040 Thank you so much. Well, in the beginning, I knew it had to be horror related in some fashion. And there's a lot of true 46 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:33,840 crime podcasts out there. So I just wanted to kind of stand out if I could. And it clicked one day. And I thought, what 47 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:40,800 if I told a horrific story to another person and they had to guess was it true crime or the plot of a movie? It just hit me 48 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:48,400 out of nowhere. And what if I didn't reveal that till the end? And who better to go to than the chicken of all Joanna, who hates 49 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:54,000 scary movies and watches, you know, she'll watch Dateline and things like, you know, documentaries, but that's about enough for 50 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,560 her. And she immediately said, Yes, there's no question. 51 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:04,120 Oh, that's awesome. So what gives you inspiration behind the stories that you guys decide to tell? I mean, I haven't sat here 52 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:11,640 and tried to listen. Hey, do you guys have a even balance on movie plot or true crime? So I don't know what gives you 53 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:12,440 inspiration. 54 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:20,320 Yeah, that can be tricky on my end, because I really try to have no pattern because I don't want someone to think last week was 55 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:27,320 true crime. So this week is a movie. So we kind of try to throw in some other types of episodes where it'll be true crime 56 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:33,680 only or movie plot only like I did with our Freddy Krueger series or episode. But really, it's about what story could I 57 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:40,720 tell in a narrative fiction style? Because not all movies or true crime stories really lend themselves to that. So I just try to 58 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:47,320 think how can I spin this? So I'm true to the filmmakers and but also true to the victims if it's a true case, and just kind 59 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:53,720 of what can I tell in a smooth way. And that's kind of where I get that it just has to click for me inspiration wise in my 60 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:54,120 brain. 61 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,880 Well, you're a great storyteller. 62 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,840 Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. 63 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,960 Who would be your dream guest on your podcast if you were to have anybody? 64 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:10,360 That's so Oh, man. That's a tough one for me to think about. My dream guest would honestly be anyone who authentically came 65 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,280 across our show and just organically appreciates it. 66 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,480 Oh, wow. So you're talking about appreciating your listeners. 67 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:22,480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it would just be someone who just enjoys what we're putting out into the world and who would really be 68 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:28,520 into hearing what I have to say and just be engaged in the mystery of it all. That to me would be my dream guest and maybe we'll 69 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:29,240 get there one day. 70 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:36,400 Yeah, absolutely. Well, you just had I just listened to one of your most recent episodes and you had an intern on so it's always 71 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,000 nice to have neighbors that are willing to join in for sure. 72 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,440 Yeah, we tell her she's our intern. 73 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,480 All right. Do you listen to your own episodes? 74 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Oh, 100%. I do. And we're such dorks because Joanna says the same thing. I'll listen back to something we did a while ago. And I just 75 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,760 start laughing out loud at our stupid jokes. Like if it's happening right now. But I do. Do you? 76 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:05,200 I do. But I wait because I do all the editing. So I'd probably listen. I don't know, probably at least four times before it even 77 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:11,120 airs because I'm editing but then you don't really get the concept of the true storyline if you're just listening for all the 78 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:19,480 editing that you have to do. But I do wait probably a month or two. I'm a binge listener to everything I listen to. And with that, 79 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:26,920 then I can go back and say, Oh, gosh, we did a really good job on that. That was a really good story. I need to do more of that. Yes. 80 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,360 And then I can also kind of say, Oh, wow, maybe I don't need to do that next time. 81 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:38,480 Yeah, I like to listen back to see the growth and the sound quality, of course, with editing it to also just see, was this 82 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,560 enjoyable? Was it not? Where can we go from here? All those things. 83 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:48,400 Yeah, this is a great way, a great segue to your teaser in just a couple minutes, because for our listeners, you will get a 84 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:56,360 teaser of live laugh murder. And I'll try to fill in a little bit for Joanna today. But if you could describe your 85 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,320 communication style, what would that be? 86 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:05,640 I think Joanna and I, we really have a way of trying to see the lighter side of things in our friendship and in our show, even in 87 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:12,040 difficult times, or telling difficult stories, we're very similar in that we can have the hard conversations, but we just try 88 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:18,800 to throw in joy whenever we can. And it's not always easy to be that way. But she really balances me out in that. And I think I do 89 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,760 the same for her. We just have an adoration for each other, you know, and if Joanna has to tell me a hard truth, I know it's 90 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,800 coming from an honest place and a real place. And then she's going to make me laugh after. And you know, 91 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:30,800 the chemistry. 92 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,560 Yeah. And I hope that translates to our show kind of our relationship and our bond. And it's a sensitive topic when you're 93 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:43,480 talking about something horrific, and then to try to make it lighter. But that's honestly how we are in our lives as well. 94 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:50,360 Because going through hard times, you know, over time that if you can laugh, take that opportunity. If you can smile, take that 95 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:56,120 opportunity. So with she and I, we have that in common very much where we just try to bring a little bit of joy and laughter 96 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,200 whenever we can. 97 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:03,440 Yeah, and statistically, they say that when you laugh, you do live longer. So you know, you get a plus there. Oh, well, there 98 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,080 you go. Yeah. So where can we find you online? 99 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:13,520 We're on the major platforms, Spotify, Apple, just got on Stitcher, Amazon Music, all of those. And if you're so inclined, you 100 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,960 can check out our Instagram at live laugh murder podcast. 101 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:23,600 Great. I think that we can go ahead and transition to my little story today. I do like to start my episodes off with a 102 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:31,560 question if you're ready to go. What I like to do on Dying to be Found is I kind of set up the stage with a question. And so my 103 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:35,680 question to you, Carmen is have you ever had a DNA test? 104 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,680 No, I don't believe I have. Have you? 105 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:43,280 I have. So ancestry.com sponsor me. Just kidding. Or maybe not. 106 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:43,880 Do it. 107 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:51,240 Yeah, so I actually did that. I got it for a birthday present a couple years ago. And the cool thing is, is that my dad was a 108 00:09:51,240 --> 00:10:00,280 really big historian before technology came along. He put a family tree booklet together for me a binder and oh my gosh, 109 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:07,600 Carmen is so cool because it's really taken us back. I can go back to my family line to the 1800s now. 110 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:08,400 Really? 111 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:16,200 Yeah, because of what he gave me as his hobby when he was doing all this and put this together for me. And then the 112 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:21,280 genealogy website has pretty much done the rest. So I think that's really, really cool. 113 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:22,000 That's cool. 114 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:31,160 And Beth and I really talk a lot about familial DNA. I really do think that it's going to play a huge part in the dash this season. 115 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:40,360 So I thought that today I would talk to you about a case. I don't know if you heard on the news just a couple months ago, it's a 116 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:46,160 story that broke about Melissa Suzanne Highsmith. Have you heard that one? 117 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:54,160 Not the name off the top of my head, but I do know that familial DNA is causing many people to get caught that thought they got away with crimes. 118 00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:02,560 You know, bravo to the authorities who are able to piece all that together because to me, I personally have to give victims names and 119 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:09,360 things like that. If you've heard my episodes enough to know that familial DNA is really, really changing things. 120 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:20,320 After 2000, I haven't seen as many of these people that get away with crimes as long, but yeah, as in recent years, it's really becoming a thing, which I just can't say enough about. 121 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,440 It's really awesome. 122 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:27,280 I might get a little emotional here because I'm already feeling it, but thank you for the warning. 123 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:34,560 Yeah, I know. It's just, I mean, I get goosebumps and I just, this is a happy ending today and I just love that. So that's why I wanted to report it. 124 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:47,480 Melissa Suzanne Highsmith was found by her family or I mean, maybe she found, but Melissa found her family after 51 years by using one of those genealogy websites. 125 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,520 Isn't that amazing? I already have goosebumps. 126 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:50,520 Wow. 127 00:11:50,560 --> 00:12:00,480 I know. She was only 21 months old when she was abducted from her home in Fort Worth, Texas back on August 23rd, 1971. 128 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,480 So yeah, she was gone for quite some time. 129 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,440 For consistency, I am going to use Melissa as her name throughout our conversation. 130 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:09,440 Okay. 131 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:15,440 Because the person who abducted her, she ended up changing her name to Melanie while she was growing up. 132 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,440 Wow. 133 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:29,440 And of course, Melissa plans to change her name back to Melissa, which when I was looking at this research, I was kind of thinking about this and I can imagine it could be as difficult as fixing identity theft, 134 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:36,400 because what happened to her original birth certificate? Is it still active? Was there a flag put on it? 135 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:43,400 What about her Melanie birth certificate? There's so many questions I have about how that would work. 136 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:48,400 Wow. Is there a Melanie birth certificate that was forged? That's where my brain goes. Oh my gosh. Okay. 137 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:54,400 Yeah. I mean, I think there would have to be because if she was ever schooled, you'd have to produce that. 138 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:55,400 Correct. 139 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:05,360 So much, but if any of our listeners have anything to add to this, by all means, write in or DM me on Instagram and we'd love to know that process. 140 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,360 So I'm going to talk about the abduction. 141 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:21,360 And back in 1971, a single mother named Alta Apentenko placed an ad in a local newspaper looking to hire a babysitter for her 21-month-old child, Melissa. 142 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:29,320 Ruth Johnson, and I say that in air quotes, answered this ad. She seemed to say all the right things to Alta, 143 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,320 because I don't know what it was like for you, Carmen, when you had small children. 144 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:43,320 When I became a first-time parent, it was really difficult to line up that first babysitter because I didn't know what questions to ask. Nobody has a manual on this. 145 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,320 Oh, it's the hardest thing. It's very difficult. My daughters are 8 and 12, 146 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:52,280 and I can remember yesterday meeting the first babysitter for the first time, and it was very nerve-racking. 147 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:59,280 It was, and I'll tell you, I didn't even like my first babysitter. I think that she lasted maybe a month or two. 148 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:06,280 You know, you just get those vibes, feelings, whatever. My second babysitter was wonderful, but yeah, you just don't know what questions to ask. 149 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:13,280 But Ruth did mention that she had a nice big yard for Melissa to play in, and she watched other children as well. 150 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,240 So she had her home daycare in the 70s when what? Most parents stay home? 151 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,240 In the 70s. Yeah, right. A lot of women, right? 152 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:27,240 Mm-hmm. But I mean, to me, that sounds reasonable because I'm just thinking back to my experiences as a young mother. 153 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,240 Okay. 154 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:37,240 I mean, it's a start anyway, at least she's saying that she's got a good environment, but apparently the interview went really well, and Alta hired Ruth on the spot for the job. 155 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:38,240 Wow. 156 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:47,200 Alta provided Ruth with her home address and made arrangements for her to come and pick up baby Melissa on August 23rd, 1971. 157 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:55,200 Now, Alta, because she was a single mother, she worked as a waitress, and she had already left for work when Melissa got picked up. 158 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:04,200 But Alta's roommate was there to greet Ruth, who handed Melissa over with the usual things, a diaper bag, with whatever items you need for the day. 159 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,200 Mm-hmm. 160 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:06,200 But there was one little detail missing. 161 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:15,160 Neither Alta nor the roommate exchanged phone numbers or home addresses with Ruth before she left with Melissa. 162 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,160 Okay. 163 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:17,160 I don't get it. 164 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,160 I know. There are so many questions. 165 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,160 All I could think of is that, again, you don't know what questions to ask. 166 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:37,120 I think, me personally, I feel like it was an honest mistake because maybe Alta was assuming that her roommate would get that information or the roommate assumed that that information was already taken in. 167 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:38,120 Mm-hmm. 168 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,120 I mean, there are so many what-ifs here. 169 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,120 That's how five minutes can change your whole life. 170 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,120 Oh, gosh, yes. 171 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:49,120 Well, when the time came for Melissa to be returned home for the day, it never happened. 172 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:57,080 That, to me, has got to be the most horrifying thing as a single mother, as a mother, knowing that your child has not come home. 173 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,080 Yep. 174 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:06,080 But when Alta's roommate was questioned later, she described Melissa's abductor as a well-dressed woman who wore white gloves. 175 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,080 And I'm thinking back in the 70s, I mean, okay. 176 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:15,080 She believed it could have either been a woman or maybe a man disguised as a woman. 177 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:21,040 I mean, I'm thinking Mrs. Doubtfire, I don't know if she wore gloves to hide the hairy hands. 178 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,040 I kind of get that. 179 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,040 Mm-hmm. 180 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,040 Alta eventually went on with her life and had another four children. 181 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,040 Wow. 182 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,040 Which is amazing. 183 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,040 It is. 184 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,040 It's so sad. 185 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,040 It is sad. 186 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:42,040 Well, this is the cool thing about that is that Alta made sure each and every one of her four children knew that they had a sister out there somewhere. 187 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,040 Mm-hmm. 188 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,040 You have to. 189 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,000 Oh, my gosh. 190 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,000 My goosebumps are upon goosebumps right now. 191 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,000 I know. 192 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,000 As you're talking, I feel like I saw, and you said this was recent, a video clip of a reunion. 193 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,000 Very. 194 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,000 Okay. 195 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,000 Yes. 196 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,000 That's probably the one you're thinking about. 197 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:59,000 Okay. 198 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,000 Because it was really just recently on the news. 199 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:12,000 Over the years, Alta's family posted information about Melissa's abduction on social media and even submitted to DNA testing to no avail. 200 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:19,960 So I believe that they went through the authorities' DNA testing, but they also submitted to one of those genealogical websites like I have. 201 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:20,960 Okay. 202 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:28,960 Sketches of the kidnapper were drawn up, but police hit dead ends everywhere they looked, so that did not come to fruition for them. 203 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:36,960 The police even did one of those age progressions where they develop a photo of what Melissa could look like as an adult. 204 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:37,960 Okay. 205 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,920 Carmen, the age progression looks nothing like her. 206 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:43,920 Oh, my God. 207 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,920 I always wonder about that too. 208 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:46,920 Is it even? 209 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,920 I will say this. 210 00:17:48,960 --> 00:18:01,920 With the dash, I'm actually doing a lot of these solved abduction cases where they do have the age progression, and this is the second time I've seen that the victim does not look anything. 211 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,920 Wow. 212 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:11,880 You know, you've got that to look at, which is great because you think that it's going to be helpful, but then I feel, am I looking for the wrong person? 213 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,880 Am I passing the real victim on the street when I'm really looking for someone else? 214 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:17,880 Right, right. 215 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,880 And how do you even really know? 216 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,880 Yeah, I'd have to look at the statistics to see. 217 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,880 I don't know if there's a good outcome as far as those pictures. 218 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:27,880 I have no idea. 219 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,880 That'd be interesting to talk about. 220 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,880 Yeah, that'd be an interesting deep dive to kind of look into. 221 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:32,840 How sad. 222 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,840 How sad for those other four, sorry, those other children. 223 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,840 And I always wonder, yeah, I always wonder about how was their upbringing? 224 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,840 What was that like for them, for the other children? 225 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,840 Was Ulta super protective? 226 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,840 Did she let them go anywhere? 227 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,840 Or, you know, once you lose a child like that, it's so hard. 228 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,840 Yeah, double-edged sword for sure. 229 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:58,840 I've never been in that situation and I couldn't even imagine, but there's just so many different ways that people react. 230 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,800 Or, you know, in a survival mode, there's just so many, so many what ifs. 231 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,800 And just to know that the child is missing, you have no closure. 232 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:09,800 Oh my gosh. 233 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:10,800 Okay, okay, keep going, keep going. 234 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,800 I need to hear more. 235 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:13,800 I need the rest. 236 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:14,800 All right. 237 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:23,800 Well, along with the DNA genealogy service that the family submitted to, they also put out identifiers on social media, 238 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,800 like a birthmark that Melissa had on her neck. 239 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:33,760 But obviously for the next 50 years, nothing really came of that until the day of discovery. 240 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,760 So here comes the good news. 241 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:45,760 For over 50 years, Melissa was raised by a woman whom she thought was her mother, and she was raised under the name of Melanie Walden. 242 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:46,760 Wow. 243 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:52,760 Melissa and Melanie right now for the purpose of this very instant conversation, they're the same person. 244 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:58,720 And Melissa's real siblings had taken that genealogy test through 23andMe. 245 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,720 Melissa had done the same thing very recently, as in 2022. 246 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:05,720 Wow. 247 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:06,720 It gets better. 248 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,720 Okay. 249 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:15,720 Only three weeks had passed between the time that Melissa took the DNA test and the time that she received her results. 250 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,720 And I'm going to say that's accurate because I've taken that DNA test before. 251 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:28,680 And this is when Melissa came to the realization that her true identity lay somewhere else. 252 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,680 Oh my gosh. 253 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:30,680 Can I ask a question? 254 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:31,680 Absolutely. 255 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,680 The woman who raised her, was she still alive? 256 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:35,680 Yes. 257 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:36,680 Okay. 258 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,680 Yeah. 259 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,680 And the cool thing is, is that Melissa confronted her. 260 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,680 I'm just going to call her Ruth Johnson because I do not know her real name. 261 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:44,680 Okay. 262 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,680 She did not deny that Melissa Suzanne Highsmith was Melissa and not Melanie. 263 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:50,640 Okay. 264 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,640 But she had a story to tell with it. 265 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:53,640 Let me get cozy. 266 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,640 I'm ready. 267 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:03,640 Ruth told Melissa that she had bought her as a toddler for the low, low price of $500. 268 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:04,640 What? 269 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,640 In 1971 now. 270 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,640 So today's equivalent would be over $3,500 in today's currency. 271 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:11,640 What? 272 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,640 Yeah. 273 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:13,640 What do you think of that? 274 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,640 Okay. 275 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,640 Well, is it true? 276 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,640 Is that what happened? 277 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:17,640 Well, I don't know. 278 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:18,640 That's the mystery. 279 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,600 But I think that at this point, that's a he said, she said situation. 280 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:23,600 We'll never know. 281 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,600 Oh, okay. 282 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,600 I mean, if there were no adoption papers filed, you know, to show that Ruth adopted her. 283 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:30,600 Okay. 284 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:31,600 True. 285 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,600 Look, we could go around all day long if it was a cash transaction. 286 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:35,600 Who knows? 287 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,600 I know. 288 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:37,600 Exactly. 289 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,600 Here's the kicker now. 290 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:44,600 Melissa was raised less than 20 minutes away from Alta for her entire life. 291 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,600 You're kidding me. 292 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,600 Isn't that bizarre? 293 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,560 Again, this is not the first time I've heard this. 294 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,560 They don't go far from home, which is crazy. 295 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,560 This is, that's wild. 296 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:57,560 It is. 297 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:03,560 Well, according to Melissa, her upbringing with Ruth was a little tumultuous. 298 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,560 Okay. 299 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:11,560 And she never really felt loved by Ruth Johnson, who we know now that Melissa called mother. 300 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:18,520 During an interview, Melissa even said that at one point she had run away from home at the age of 15. 301 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:19,520 Wow. 302 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,520 So she was unhappy. 303 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,520 Yeah, that's sad. 304 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,520 I guess I have that question too. 305 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:31,520 Why would Ruth have even taken her in the first place and kept her if she was not going to be the seemingly good mother that she wanted to be? 306 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:32,520 Yeah. 307 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,520 Well, I'm sure there's some psychological things going on there. 308 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,520 But that, oh God. 309 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,520 Okay. 310 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,480 So we're going to talk about that reuniting that you had mentioned a couple of minutes ago. 311 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:50,480 Melissa did reunite with both of her biological parents and her four siblings in November, 2022. 312 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:51,480 Wow. 313 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,480 And of course she was elated that she found her true identity. 314 00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,480 And I'm telling you right now, I feel I'm welling up a little bit because I love this happy ending. 315 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,480 I'm getting goosebumps. 316 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,480 But I mean, that's just so, what a wonderful, wonderful ending to this. 317 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,440 I cannot imagine what that had to feel like to find out. 318 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,440 You have all these siblings. 319 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,440 You have a mother. 320 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:21,440 Ruth is not your mom and the devastation there, but then the joy and like your birth mother is still alive and you can meet her. 321 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,440 Oh, that just right there gets me. 322 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,440 Oh yeah. 323 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,440 Well, Melissa plans to change her legal name from Melanie back to Melissa. 324 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:36,440 And she also connected with extended family, including one sister who now lives in Spain. 325 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,400 Wow. 326 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,400 So this is her reuniting here has really gone viral, which is so cool. 327 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,400 Yeah. 328 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,400 I saw that video and I didn't realize when you started, this was that clip of them seeing each other for the first time. 329 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,400 Amazing. 330 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,400 Oh yeah. 331 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,400 Well, let's not forget about Ruth Johnson. 332 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:53,400 Oh yeah. 333 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,400 Tell me spill. 334 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,400 All right. 335 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:05,400 So I found out some conflicting information on the statutes of limitations here because apparently in today's US law, 336 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,360 there's no limitations on kidnapping cases. 337 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:17,360 From what I found in this case, there was a statute of limitations that expired in 2007. 338 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,360 You have to go with the time of the crime, right? 339 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,360 I think so. 340 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,360 Yeah. 341 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,360 If the crime was in the seventies, they have to follow the law from the seven. 342 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,360 I don't know. 343 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,360 It's true. 344 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,360 All right. 345 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,360 I'm so anxious. 346 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,360 Again, I would love if one of our listeners could DM me and let me know how that works. 347 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,360 Absolutely. 348 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:33,360 Yes, please. 349 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:39,320 Ultimately, Ruth Johnson will likely never face charges for Melissa's abduction. 350 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:40,320 What? 351 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:41,320 Yep. 352 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:42,320 What? 353 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:43,320 All right. 354 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:45,320 She's just living her life. 355 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:46,320 Yep, she is. 356 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:47,320 No repercussions. 357 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:48,320 Wow. 358 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,320 So in a nutshell, I'm done. 359 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:51,320 That is my story. 360 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:53,320 Melissa Highsmith. 361 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:54,320 Wow. 362 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:55,320 Oh my gosh. 363 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,320 So there you go. 364 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,320 Oh, you got me on that one. 365 00:24:58,360 --> 00:24:59,320 Wow, Deb. 366 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:05,280 That's just so devastating, but so exciting, but just so horrific. 367 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,280 And Ruth, I'm mad at her. 368 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,280 Yeah. 369 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,280 How can she face no consequences? 370 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,280 You said there could be a lot more going in. 371 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,280 Mental health could be an issue and things like that. 372 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,280 But if she took her in the first place, who knows? 373 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,280 I can't speculate on any of this. 374 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,280 I'm just so happy for Melissa and her family. 375 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,280 And that is what I want to do here with the Dash is just to give some good news 376 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,240 because our regular episodes are not always warm and fuzzy like this. 377 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,240 Yes. 378 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,240 So I'm going to do a little bit more of this. 379 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,240 Yes. 380 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,240 Well, I really hope that they can go on to find some unity 381 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,240 and a family bonding there. 382 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,240 And I hope that Melissa can just really find some joy out of this. 383 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,240 How sad. 384 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,240 But what a great, great realization, and that her mother is still with her 385 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,240 and she can spend time with her now with Alta. 386 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,240 That's what's cool. 387 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,240 And her siblings. 388 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,240 Absolutely. 389 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,200 That's I mean, every day is just a wake up day to a new world. 390 00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,200 That's just so amazing. 391 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,200 Yeah. 392 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,200 I have a question about the DNA. 393 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,200 Yeah. 394 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,200 All of my grandparents were born in Puerto Rico. 395 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,200 So I've heard that those genealogy tests are not always accurate 396 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,200 because of all the people that, you know, 100 years ago came to Puerto Rico 397 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,200 and there were a lot of falsified documents, fake names, a lot of it was very 398 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,200 transient island for a long time. 399 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,200 So I've heard that the DNA tests, if you're from that area or Puerto Rican, 400 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,160 it's not as easy to, I don't know, and I don't know if that's true, but I guess, 401 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,160 you know, to your point, it doesn't matter to find your ancestors. 402 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,160 Like in Melissa's point, it mattered that she found siblings 403 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,160 and family that also did the test. 404 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,160 So I guess it's two different things. 405 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,160 Yeah. 406 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,160 Maybe a certain percentage of accuracy. 407 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,160 And I will tell you this. 408 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,160 I mentioned that my dad put together that family tree for me 409 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,160 and the genealogy website did the rest. 410 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,160 Now I had a cousin and I feel like he is a great person. 411 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,120 I feel like he is maybe my second cousin. 412 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,120 I had a cousin from Toronto get in touch with me because, you know, 413 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,120 I'm originally from Canada, but he contacted me about two years ago. 414 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,120 And the cool thing is, is that he at some point in time said, 415 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:12,120 hey, I have somebody who met your dad and gave them a ton of information 416 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,120 about the family line. 417 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,120 He sent all that to me. 418 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,120 It's my dad's handwriting. 419 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,120 It's duplicates to some of the stuff that I already had. 420 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:24,080 So I'm going to say there's got to be some accuracy to the DNA testing 421 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,080 that you have, but then again, I mean, like you said, 422 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:31,080 just depending on the era, the times and what was going on, 423 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,080 I'm sure that you could dig into it. 424 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:34,080 Oh, yeah. 425 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:37,080 I think the genealogy could be from what I've heard in the past. 426 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:41,080 And it's probably improved since when I looked into doing this years ago. 427 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:44,080 But maybe the genealogy aspect might not be what, you know, 428 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,080 a lot of people would find, but maybe the finding your family members 429 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,040 that would probably be more accurate for someone like me. 430 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,040 I don't know, though. I could be wrong. 431 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,040 So last thought on this is that I know that the authorities 432 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,040 have their own testing sites. 433 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,040 I'm sure that their technology or whatever they use is probably 434 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,040 a little bit more technical or sophisticated. 435 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,040 That's exciting. 436 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,040 And it's just going to keep getting better and better 437 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,040 with that genealogy testing. 438 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,040 I love that. 439 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,040 I love that too. 440 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,040 All right. 441 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,000 So I just want to let our listeners know that there will be 442 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,000 no teachable moment on the dash. 443 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:25,000 But Carmen, you mentioned to me that you have a little story 444 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,000 to give us a small taste of your podcast. 445 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,000 I do. 446 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,000 I'm a little nervous about this because I told you my track record 447 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,000 is not great. 448 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,000 So I will hand you the floor. 449 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,000 OK, so you and Joanna. 450 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,000 Yeah. 451 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,000 All right. Awesome. 452 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,000 Well, thank you, first of all, for letting me kind of share 453 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,000 a little snippet of what we do on our podcast. 454 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,960 And I really appreciate you being open to that. 455 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:45,960 So thank you, Deb. 456 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:46,960 That's awesome. 457 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,960 Sure. 458 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,960 All right, so you are my counterpart today. 459 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,960 And I'm going to mention my co-host a couple of times here. 460 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,960 But Joanna and I, we live in Florida. 461 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,960 And she knew, which funnily enough, when we had our call, 462 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,960 she called it that you were from Canada because she's 463 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,960 from northern Michigan. 464 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,960 And she said, I can hear it in her voice. 465 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,960 So I thought that was funny. 466 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,960 Anywho, we live in Florida. 467 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,960 And I thought I'd give you a Florida tale. 468 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:09,960 OK. 469 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,960 And again, this could be the facts of a true crime 470 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,920 case or the plot of a horror movie. 471 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,920 But I won't reveal it to you until near the end. 472 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:17,920 OK. 473 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,920 I've got a little mini, mini story. 474 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,920 So for my mini story, we're in Florida in the time 475 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,920 when cell phones were first becoming a thing. 476 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,920 I want you to imagine a beautiful Palm Beach community. 477 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,920 Palm trees line the streets. 478 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:31,920 The sun is shining. 479 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,920 And a woman named Marlene has just 480 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,920 made breakfast for her best friend and her adult son, 481 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,920 Joe, and herself. 482 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,920 Upon hearing a knock at the door, Marlene goes to answer it. 483 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,880 So I hope you can imagine this kind 484 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:43,880 of morning scene in your brain. 485 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,880 I can. 486 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,880 To her surprise, when she opens the door, 487 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,880 she sees a clown holding carnation flowers 488 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,880 and balloons where one says, you're the greatest. 489 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,880 And the other is a snow white balloon. 490 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,880 Now, when I say clown, I'm talking orange wig, white face 491 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,880 paint, big red nose, the whole thing. 492 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:00,880 What time of the day was this? 493 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:01,880 Morning time. 494 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,880 OK. 495 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:03,880 In the morning, breakfast time. 496 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,880 Marlene thinks, OK, you know, this is weird. 497 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,880 But she reaches out and says, oh, how pretty 498 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,840 and instinctively reaches for the flowers. 499 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,840 As she is grabbing the flowers, the clown 500 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,840 reaches behind their back, pulls out a revolver, 501 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,840 extends it to Marlene, and shoots her in her mouth. 502 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:20,840 Wow. 503 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,840 It's awful. 504 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,840 The clown drops the balloons and flowers, 505 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,840 turns away, and calmly walks to their white convertible 506 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,840 in the gorgeous town of Palm Beach, Florida, 507 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,840 and drives away. 508 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,840 Just calmly walks away? 509 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:33,840 Yes. 510 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,840 Calmly walks away. 511 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,840 Gets in their convertible, and that's it. 512 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:37,840 Wow. 513 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,800 Meanwhile, Joe, Marlene's son, who's still in the kitchen, 514 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,800 but kind of eating breakfast and kind 515 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,800 of watching this interaction, you know, when the gun goes off, 516 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,800 Joe's first thought is that one of the balloons 517 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:48,800 must have popped. 518 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,800 It didn't take him long to realize 519 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,800 that what had just happened to his mother 520 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,800 was that she was shot. 521 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:54,800 Oh. 522 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,800 Joe's first impulse is to chase after 523 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,800 who just did this to his mom. 524 00:30:58,840 --> 00:30:59,800 He's her adult son. 525 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,800 Unfortunately, though, Joe currently has a broken leg. 526 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,800 And even though he goes to drive off after the maniacal clown, 527 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,760 he basically just can't. 528 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,760 He can't run to his car fast enough. 529 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,760 He can't put it in gear fast enough, 530 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:12,760 and it's a nightmare. 531 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,760 That's going to be horrifying. 532 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,760 Marlene is taken to the hospital, 533 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,760 and she later dies of her gunshot wound a few days later. 534 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,760 Oh, gosh. 535 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,760 Now, the investigation begins on who would do this. 536 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,760 And the first thought is the husband. 537 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,760 There was a husband, and the husband always did it, right? 538 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:29,760 That's what they say. 539 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,760 Oh, yeah. 540 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,760 They always have to look at the ones closest to you. 541 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:33,760 Exactly. 542 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,720 And who wasn't at the home during this incident, 543 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:36,720 during this crime? 544 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,720 Now, I want to talk for a second about Marlene 545 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:39,720 and her husband, Michael. 546 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,720 They've been going through a hard time in their marriage 547 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,720 and going back and forth over a possible separation 548 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:45,720 for whatever reasons. 549 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,720 And their situation is difficult because they've 550 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,720 got a lot of money and assets. 551 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,720 So that makes things tricky. 552 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,720 They own businesses together, and a lot of the things 553 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,720 are in Marlene's name. 554 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,720 And who knows why the divorce hasn't happened, 555 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:58,720 the separation. 556 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,720 That's kind of the main reason of what's making it sticky. 557 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,680 Marlene, on the other hand, is feeling like a separation 558 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,680 might be good for them during this time, no matter what. 559 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,680 I mean, it's going to favor her financially anyway. 560 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,680 And I want to mention that Michael himself 561 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,680 has a whole other apartment that he's been renting nearby. 562 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,680 OK, so they're truly separated. 563 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:16,680 Mm-hmm. 564 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,680 There's some, yes. 565 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,680 Michael, though, has an alibi for the time of the shooting 566 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,680 going off, having been off on a boy's trip 567 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,680 during this brutal attack by the psycho clown. 568 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,680 So he's off the hook in the investigator's eyes. 569 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:28,680 Mm. 570 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,680 So now I want to take you to a different scene 571 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,640 for you to imagine. 572 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:33,640 We're going to switch it here. 573 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,640 I want you to picture the point of view of the clown. 574 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:37,640 Who are they? 575 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,640 Why are they doing this? 576 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,640 And what do they have to gain? 577 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:41,640 Kind of think about that. 578 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,640 So imagine you're working, different point of view here. 579 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,640 Imagine you're working at a costume shop, U-Deb, 580 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,640 like Party City or Spirit Halloween, right? 581 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:50,640 Sure. 582 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,640 And you're about to close for the night 583 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,640 when a woman bursts through the doors 584 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,640 begging to be let in to your shop. 585 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,640 Imagine you as the employee say, we're closed. 586 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,600 You know, come back tomorrow. 587 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,600 But this dark-haired young woman is so adamant, pleading, 588 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,600 saying, please, I need to buy something right now. 589 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:08,600 Oh, wow. 590 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:09,600 For whatever reason, you're tired. 591 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:10,600 You're done with your day. 592 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,600 But you decide to just let her get what she needs 593 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,600 so she'll go away and you can go home for the night. 594 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,600 You see this frenzied woman go over to the clown costumes 595 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,600 and she makes her purchase. 596 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,600 And you go about your evening closing up shop. 597 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,600 But the moment kind of sticks with you as this employee. 598 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,600 It's strange. 599 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,600 You tell your friends about it, you know, the crazy lady 600 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:26,600 who made you close up late. 601 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,560 Yeah, that's creepy in itself. 602 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,560 Oh, it's very creepy, right? 603 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,560 Then a couple days later, you're home, you know, 604 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,560 you the employee, and you see on the news 605 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,560 that a person dressed in the same clown costume 606 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,560 you just sold has just murdered someone at their front door. 607 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,560 Wow. 608 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,560 So what do you do as the employee? 609 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,560 You call the cops instantly. 610 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,560 Yeah, I would definitely call the cops. 611 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:49,560 Oh, 100%. 612 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,560 So who is this woman in the clown costume? 613 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,560 Why did she do this? 614 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,560 What's her connection to Marlene? 615 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,520 And I'm going to tell you that after you tell me 616 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,520 if you think this is a horror movie plot. 617 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,520 Or a true crime case. 618 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,520 I hate this part. 619 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:03,520 Actually, I love this part. 620 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:04,520 I hate this part. 621 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,520 It's a love hate relationship, Carmen. 622 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,520 It really is. 623 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,520 It is. 624 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:11,520 Oh, gosh. 625 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,520 OK, let me think because morning time, flowers. 626 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,520 Did you tell me what the reason for the flowers were? 627 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,520 I did not. 628 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:21,520 I don't remember you telling me. 629 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,520 OK, so she just randomly got some flowers 630 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:24,480 in the morning. 631 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,480 Do you know if it was her birthday? 632 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,480 I believe it was not her birthday. 633 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,480 It was just a regular old day. 634 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,480 OK. 635 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:37,480 OK, I'm just going to say I think I'm second guessing myself 636 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,480 because I told you I don't have a good track record 637 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,480 with your podcast. 638 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,480 I'm going to go with true crime. 639 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,480 Oh, goodness. 640 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:44,480 And you're correct. 641 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:45,480 It is. 642 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,480 It is. 643 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:47,480 Yay. 644 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:48,480 I'm applauding you. 645 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,480 Good job. 646 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:50,480 Wow. 647 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:51,480 Oh, my gosh. 648 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:52,480 That's horrible. 649 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,440 That's horrible. 650 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,440 It's awful. 651 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,440 And I have a few more details I want to share with you 652 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,440 if that's OK. 653 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,440 Oh, yeah. 654 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,440 It's awful. 655 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,440 And it is the very real story of the shooting of Marlene Warren 656 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,440 that happened in 1990. 657 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:06,440 Now, I'm summing up. 658 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,440 I could go on. 659 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,440 We could go on an hour talking about this. 660 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,440 But I've just cut my details down. 661 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,440 So it's just a mini story for you. 662 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,440 I'm going to give you just the summation. 663 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,440 Yeah. 664 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:19,440 All right, you ready for it? 665 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,440 Facts of the case. 666 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,440 Yep, I am ready. 667 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,400 So remember I said that Marlene's husband, Michael, 668 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,400 was renting an apartment? 669 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,400 Yes. 670 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,400 He wasn't living there alone. 671 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,400 Wow. 672 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,400 He was staying with his 20-something-year-old 673 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,400 dark-haired girlfriend, Sheila Keene, 674 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,400 who was also Michael and Marlene's employee 675 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,400 at the car dealership that they owned together. 676 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,400 Oh, my gosh. 677 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,400 Police were able to track the balloons back 678 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,400 to the local publics in the area because they 679 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,400 were so specific. 680 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:46,400 Wow. 681 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,400 Oh, OK. 682 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,400 Crooks are stupid. 683 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,400 Mm-hmm. 684 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,360 And the.38 revolver that shot Marlene matched one 685 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,360 that Sheila owned or had in her possession, let me say. 686 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,360 They had the story from the costume shop owner or employee. 687 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,360 They found the white convertible abandoned in a parking lot. 688 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,360 They even found an orange wig fibers in her home 689 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,360 after a warrant search. 690 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:10,360 Wow. 691 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,360 But because it was all circumstantial evidence 692 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,360 and because it was 1990 and DNA wasn't what it is today, 693 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,320 they couldn't arrest Marlene without a shadow of a doubt. 694 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,320 Are you kidding me? 695 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,320 And in case you're wondering, Michael, her husband, 696 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,320 was in on this. 697 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,320 I mean, we would assume, too, allegedly. 698 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,320 Was there life insurance involved? 699 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,320 I cut a lot of the details out, but they 700 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,320 owned over a million dollars in assets 701 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,320 together, Michael and Marlene. 702 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,320 There was a lot of money to be had, 703 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,320 and unfortunately, he had a lot of financial gain 704 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,320 after her death because he was never charged. 705 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,280 And it really, I wasn't going to mention this, 706 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,280 but you asked, and I'm going to throw it in quickly. 707 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,280 Her son, Joe, unfortunately, suffered a lot financially. 708 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,280 He wasn't able to get the assets, 709 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,280 and his dad really just screwed him over 710 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,280 in every possible way. 711 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,280 So the husband put his 20-something girlfriend 712 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,280 up to this. 713 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,280 Oh, yeah. 714 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:06,280 So this isn't the end. 715 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,280 I got a couple more things. 716 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,280 So it would take decades, decades. 717 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,280 Sheila and Michael, they actually went on to marry. 718 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,240 They opened a restaurant and later retired. 719 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,240 And then on a day in 2017, almost 30 years 720 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,240 after the murder, Sheila, thinking life's great, 721 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,240 got pulled over on the way to visit her mother, 722 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,240 I think in Virginia or somewhere around there. 723 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,240 This wasn't a normal traffic stop. 724 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,240 A confused Sheila was immediately arrested 725 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,240 on the side of the road for first-degree murder. 726 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,240 Cold case investigators in Florida 727 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,240 had never stopped working on Marlene's case. 728 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,240 They'd pick it up, put it down, pick it up, put it down. 729 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,240 It's wild. 730 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,200 They were now able to use current technology 731 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,200 and DNA testing because they had the orange wig fibers 732 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,200 and they had collections of Sheila's hair 733 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:52,200 all saved and preserved, 734 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:55,200 and they were able to make a connection and a match. 735 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:56,200 So this led to her lock up 736 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,200 and throw away the key type of conviction. 737 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:00,200 They had it, lock and key. 738 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:04,200 Okay, that goes along the lines of our Dash story today 739 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,200 with familial or genealogical. 740 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:08,200 Oh, my goodness. 741 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:10,200 I didn't even put that together. 742 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,160 Oh, my goodness. 743 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,160 It was all in the stars for us, Deb. 744 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,160 It was. 745 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,160 It was. 746 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,160 Since this crime occurred in Florida, 747 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,160 prosecutors initially were seeking the death penalty, 748 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,160 but things changed a little 749 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,160 as prosecutors changed hands multiple times since 2017. 750 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,160 And with COVID happening and all of that, 751 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,160 a lot of things got delayed. 752 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,160 So as recently as October 2022, 753 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,160 Sheila was denied release on bond until her trial, 754 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,160 which was supposed to happen. 755 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,120 It's now still postponed at the time of this recording. 756 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,120 Wow. 757 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,120 Yep, for the seventh time, might I add, 758 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,120 postponed her trial. 759 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,120 Wow, that's crazy. 760 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,120 Yep, from what I've seen, 761 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,120 it's yet to be rescheduled. 762 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,120 And then one last thing, 763 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,120 I'll just end with Joe Warren, Marlene's son. 764 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,120 He was very happy to know 765 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,120 that his mother's shooter was in custody. 766 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,120 And he, like I said, he was put through a lot. 767 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,120 He suffered a lot. 768 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,120 Yeah, poor kid. 769 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,120 I mean, that's a lifelong trauma there. 770 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,120 Oh, absolutely. 771 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,080 And a quote from Joe to kind of end it here. 772 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,080 He said, my mom was an angel. 773 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,080 We were best friends. 774 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,080 Oh, I know. 775 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,080 Doesn't that just get you? 776 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,080 Yeah, I'm so glad that he, 777 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,080 I don't think there's ever a real closure, 778 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,080 but at least he got what he needed. 779 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,080 And that's the bittersweet. 780 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,080 Right. 781 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,080 Gosh, Carmen, you did amazing. 782 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,080 Oh, well, if you enjoyed that, listeners, 783 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,080 check us out at Live, Laugh, Murder Podcast. 784 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,080 And we are true crime sometimes. 785 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,040 Sometimes. 786 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,040 That's what we like to say. 787 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,040 Just like your logo says. 788 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,040 Exactly. 789 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,040 So that, in a nutshell, 790 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,040 is a sample of what you'll get 791 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,040 when you go to Live, Laugh, Murder. 792 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,040 And Carmen, I want to thank you so much 793 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,040 for helping me on The Dash today. 794 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,040 Yes. 795 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,040 Be sure to check us out every week 796 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,040 on The Dash and Dying to be Found. 797 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,040 And go check out Live, Laugh, Murder 798 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,040 on their socials, like right now, 799 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,040 because we're about to end this podcast 800 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,000 and you should do that 801 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,000 while you're thinking about it. 802 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,000 Yeah. 803 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,000 Thanks, Carmen, so much. 804 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,000 I appreciate this. 805 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,000 Thank you so much for having me on. 806 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,000 It's just this has been wonderful 807 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,000 and you're amazing. 808 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,000 I love your show. 809 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,000 I love you. 810 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,000 You're great. 811 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,000 This is great. 812 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,000 Thank you. 813 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,000 Thank you so much. 814 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,000 All right. 815 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,000 We will talk to you soon. 816 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,000 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found, 817 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,000 True Crime Podcast in our Dash mini series. 818 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,000 Every week, we'll bring you a variety 819 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,000 of true crime episodes, 820 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,000 a little dash of hope, 821 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,960 and a special bonus episodes 822 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,960 with some really cool guests. 823 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:36,960 Before we go, 824 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,960 we'd love for you to share this podcast 825 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:39,960 with your friends 826 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,960 and give us a five-star review. 827 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,960 Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, 828 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,960 Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest 829 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:47,960 at Dying to be Found, 830 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,960 or visit our website 831 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,960 at DyingToBeFound.com, 832 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,960 spelled just like you see in our logo. 833 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:54,960 Better yet, 834 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,960 click on our Linktree account 835 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:57,960 found in the show notes 836 00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:58,960 where you'll find 837 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,960 all the information in one place. 838 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,920 We'll be dashing every Wednesday 839 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,920 for our mini episodes, 840 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,920 plus every Thursday 841 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:06,920 when I get together 842 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:07,920 with some of my family members. 843 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,920 Thanks again, everyone, 844 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:31,880 and we'll talk to you soon.