1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,040 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:12,340 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 3 00:00:12,340 --> 00:00:18,560 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:33,560 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:46,200 Hi everyone, welcome back to Dying to be Found, where every week I talk to some really cool guests on some of the podcasts that I like to listen to, or I get together with some of my family members. 6 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,520 Today, my sister Beth is here to listen to an older case from the Victorian era. 7 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:52,320 Hi Beth. 8 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:53,920 Hi Deb, how are you? 9 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,560 I am doing well. So good to see you as always. 10 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,400 Yeah, it's been a while. 11 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:06,420 It has been a while, but we're not going to let that stop us from talking about a really good episode today. 12 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:08,960 We don't just talk about true crime around here. 13 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:10,860 I'm also here to educate. 14 00:01:10,860 --> 00:01:15,700 Beth, do you know why we call the 1800s the Victorian era? 15 00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:17,620 No, do tell. 16 00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:24,020 Queen Victoria reigned over the UK and Ireland between 1837 and 1901. 17 00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:29,960 So this is the time when Britain was beginning to establish itself as a powerful country around the world. 18 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:30,960 Never knew that. 19 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,000 That's why I looked it up because I didn't know that either. 20 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,960 So yeah, we do all sorts of things around here on Dying to be Found. 21 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:38,960 Yes. 22 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:47,560 If our listeners have a Victorian story or any other story for that matter, be sure to click on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 23 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,200 And if you're new here, we actually have a system. 24 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,920 My sister Beth gets older cases. 25 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,820 My son, Corey, gets the rough and tough cases. 26 00:01:56,820 --> 00:02:02,400 And Shelby, my daughter, gets what she likes to call the leftovers. 27 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,100 You'll have to go back a couple of episodes. 28 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:05,500 I'm pretty sure that's what she said. 29 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:09,460 So be sure to catch up on our episodes in the meantime. 30 00:02:09,460 --> 00:02:12,700 Beth, what fascinates you about the Victorian era? 31 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:13,700 I don't know. 32 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:15,500 I've just loved it for so long. 33 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:23,360 I think the outfits that they used to wear, those beautiful dresses and I'm just an old fashion kind of gal. 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,300 And that is OK because I love all those PBS shows like Downton Abbey and. 35 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:31,460 Oh, they're coming out with another movie. 36 00:02:31,460 --> 00:02:32,460 Oh my goodness. 37 00:02:32,460 --> 00:02:33,660 Well, let me know when that comes out. 38 00:02:33,660 --> 00:02:35,060 I'll definitely have to see it. 39 00:02:35,060 --> 00:02:38,600 OK, yeah, I like the Victorian era as well. 40 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,980 Today we're going to be talking about a 23 year old medical student by the name of William 41 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:50,180 Henry Theodore Durant, also known as the demon of the Belfry. 42 00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:52,700 I'm not sure if you've heard of him, Beth, have you? 43 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:53,700 No. 44 00:02:53,700 --> 00:02:56,300 OK, well, this is a pretty interesting one. 45 00:02:56,300 --> 00:03:02,140 And honestly, you might be thinking of some comparisons here based on the Victorian era, 46 00:03:02,140 --> 00:03:04,540 but I'll let you figure that out as we go along. 47 00:03:04,540 --> 00:03:05,820 OK, all right. 48 00:03:05,820 --> 00:03:12,660 Let's start on April 3rd, 1895, when a young lady named Blanche Lamont disappeared from 49 00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:14,820 San Francisco, California. 50 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:17,640 I love that name Blanche. 51 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:18,640 Not me. 52 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:19,640 No, no. 53 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:21,500 It's old fashioned from the Victorian era. 54 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:22,500 Yep. 55 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:23,500 All right. 56 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:24,500 Well, that's it. 57 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:25,500 The end. 58 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:26,500 She disappeared. 59 00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:27,500 Well, what's the rest of the story? 60 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:30,920 I'm just kidding with you. 61 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:37,300 So yeah, let's skip ahead 10 days because I'm actually going to link Blanche's disappearance 62 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:40,020 with another crime pretty quickly here. 63 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:41,020 OK. 64 00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:46,060 Ten days later, on April 13th, 1895, Minnie Williams. 65 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:47,380 How about that name Minnie? 66 00:03:47,380 --> 00:03:48,380 That's cute. 67 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:49,380 Yeah, I like Minnie. 68 00:03:49,380 --> 00:03:55,420 Minnie Williams, a member of the local Emmanuel Baptist Church, was discovered inside a small 69 00:03:55,420 --> 00:03:58,020 closet on the church's property. 70 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:02,620 Several women had come to the church to prepare for Easter services the next day. 71 00:04:02,620 --> 00:04:04,500 This is when Minnie was discovered. 72 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:05,500 Wow. 73 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:06,500 That's creepy. 74 00:04:06,500 --> 00:04:09,900 And that's such a funny place to find someone. 75 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:10,900 I know. 76 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:15,100 That's exactly what I was thinking as I was doing my research here, Beth. 77 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:20,300 Of all places, it's bad enough that you're going to stumble across something like that, 78 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:22,500 but of all places, a church. 79 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:23,500 Yeah. 80 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:28,700 The police were immediately called to the scene, and when they began looking around, 81 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:33,600 they discovered Blanche Lamont's library card near Minnie's body. 82 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,460 The police thought nothing about this library card at first. 83 00:04:37,460 --> 00:04:43,580 They disregarded it as evidence because they learned that Blanche Lamont was also a member 84 00:04:43,580 --> 00:04:45,660 of Emmanuel Baptist Church. 85 00:04:45,660 --> 00:04:51,100 So you know, people drop things, and I just assume that that's what they thought. 86 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:55,780 But they quickly changed their minds when they realized that Blanche had gone missing 87 00:04:55,780 --> 00:05:01,460 10 days before and devised that there had to be a link between Blanche's disappearance 88 00:05:01,460 --> 00:05:02,460 and Minnie's murder. 89 00:05:02,460 --> 00:05:03,560 Well, that's good. 90 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,180 They're on it. 91 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:10,260 During their initial investigation, authorities theorized that whoever had something to do 92 00:05:10,260 --> 00:05:15,820 with Minnie's crime might have had some inside knowledge on that church's layout because 93 00:05:15,820 --> 00:05:21,860 hiding a body inside a closet deep inside the building's structure was to them a little 94 00:05:21,860 --> 00:05:22,860 too coincidental. 95 00:05:22,860 --> 00:05:26,660 Yeah, I guess that goes along the lines of you saying how odd it would be. 96 00:05:26,660 --> 00:05:31,900 Beth, you are going to find out in just a couple minutes how stupid criminals are, and 97 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:34,100 we know that saying crooks are stupid. 98 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:35,100 Yes. 99 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:41,180 Well, the police worked tirelessly throughout the night covering every inch of the church 100 00:05:41,180 --> 00:05:43,900 looking for clues in Minnie's murder. 101 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:49,380 Their investigation continued well into Easter morning when church members began arriving 102 00:05:49,380 --> 00:05:51,020 for Easter services. 103 00:05:51,020 --> 00:05:52,820 Can you imagine coming up on that? 104 00:05:52,820 --> 00:05:53,820 I know. 105 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:59,860 Well, of course, no one was allowed inside the building and a crowd began to form outside, 106 00:05:59,860 --> 00:06:03,780 which eventually covered an entire city block. 107 00:06:03,780 --> 00:06:09,220 I'm thinking that word was beginning to spread that something scandalous was happening inside 108 00:06:09,220 --> 00:06:10,540 that church. 109 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:14,100 That's an awful lot of people, an entire city block. 110 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:15,100 I know. 111 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:18,380 And so this is 1895 in San Francisco. 112 00:06:18,380 --> 00:06:19,500 It is a big city. 113 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:20,940 This is kind of my mindset. 114 00:06:20,940 --> 00:06:27,300 In the 1800s, the comparisons of today's world really were not that different because we're 115 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:31,540 looking at the Industrial Revolution era is coming up. 116 00:06:31,540 --> 00:06:36,300 So there's a ton of activity going on in the world at that point in time. 117 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:40,060 But yeah, a city block of crowds of people. 118 00:06:40,060 --> 00:06:45,260 I guess I just have to wonder, Easter services is going to be one of the busiest days of 119 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:49,100 the year at church, but I don't think a whole city block's worth. 120 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:50,100 No. 121 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:54,580 Investigators finally made their way up into the bell tower, but they had difficulties 122 00:06:54,580 --> 00:07:00,060 entering the bell free because someone had deliberately damaged the doorknob. 123 00:07:00,060 --> 00:07:05,000 Police were eventually able to push their way into the dark gallery to continue on with 124 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,060 their scene investigations. 125 00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:12,820 And after lighting several candles, I guess that's the difference between 1800s and now, 126 00:07:12,820 --> 00:07:16,740 police took a look around and this is what they discovered. 127 00:07:16,740 --> 00:07:21,620 They found a lifeless body of 20 something year old Blanche Lamont. 128 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:27,020 Blanche was somewhere between the age of 20 and 22, but I could not find her birthday. 129 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:29,280 So she was in her early 20s. 130 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,880 By now, police had two female victims in one location. 131 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:39,260 And to differentiate between the two victims, Beth Blanche was found completely nude in 132 00:07:39,260 --> 00:07:41,060 the upstairs bell free. 133 00:07:41,060 --> 00:07:46,060 Many on the other hand was discovered wearing a man's cloak and the manner of death seemed 134 00:07:46,060 --> 00:07:51,420 to be strangulation, but many had been mutilated while Blanche had not. 135 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:55,900 You know how they say that people tend to follow the same patterns. 136 00:07:55,900 --> 00:07:59,260 There really weren't a ton of patterns going on here. 137 00:07:59,260 --> 00:08:01,980 No, the poor girl so young. 138 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:02,980 I know. 139 00:08:02,980 --> 00:08:05,500 I don't really know very much about many here. 140 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:08,660 There is not a ton to be said about her. 141 00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:12,740 We are going in the direction of talking mainly about Blanche, but I'm glad they were able 142 00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:13,740 to make the connection. 143 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:17,660 I mean, obviously you're going to if two women were found on the premises. 144 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:22,860 I find it interesting that they found a man's cloak. 145 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:24,880 I know exactly. 146 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:31,220 So during the investigation, police of course looked into see who had been with Blanche 147 00:08:31,220 --> 00:08:32,220 last. 148 00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:37,900 Eye witnesses had seen both ladies riding public transit around town on the respective 149 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:44,140 days that they had disappeared and identified rather quickly who they were both with. 150 00:08:44,140 --> 00:08:49,660 Now Beth, I said I really didn't want to discount Minnie's death here, so we are going to be 151 00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:56,380 talking a little bit more about Blanche, but police were definitely able to link both murders 152 00:08:56,380 --> 00:09:00,180 to one person and I will tell you about that person in just a moment. 153 00:09:00,180 --> 00:09:01,180 Good. 154 00:09:01,180 --> 00:09:04,700 Blanche was new to the area and was attending Cooper College. 155 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:09,740 She had recently moved from Montana to California to further her education. 156 00:09:09,740 --> 00:09:14,420 You know, back then too, I mean, not a lot of women were being educated, so good for 157 00:09:14,420 --> 00:09:15,420 her. 158 00:09:15,420 --> 00:09:22,100 Well, after classes were over on the day of April 3rd, 1895, Blanche was seen leaving 159 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:27,660 the campus with four other women when a man approached and tipped his hat at the ladies. 160 00:09:27,660 --> 00:09:33,300 Because Blanche was new, she did not understand that women from that era were forbidden to 161 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:39,520 participate in meeting up with male companions or anything such as that while going to or 162 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,300 leaving the college campus. 163 00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:47,460 Yeah, in other words, women were not allowed Beth to be seen in public with a male unless 164 00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:48,460 they were married. 165 00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:50,380 Whew, have times changed. 166 00:09:50,380 --> 00:09:51,380 Have they ever? 167 00:09:51,380 --> 00:09:57,240 Now, interestingly enough, because the three other women surrounding Blanche, they understood 168 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,780 the rules set by Cooper College. 169 00:09:59,780 --> 00:10:06,220 They paid considerable amount of attention to this man and were able to provide police 170 00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:09,740 with details after Blanche had gone missing. 171 00:10:09,740 --> 00:10:10,740 Good for them, Beth. 172 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:13,140 They were paying attention to their surroundings. 173 00:10:13,140 --> 00:10:15,620 Very important, especially for a woman. 174 00:10:15,620 --> 00:10:16,620 Yes. 175 00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:20,160 Now, Corey says it's very common for people to get details wrong. 176 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,660 So listeners, make sure you're paying attention. 177 00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:27,660 And I think when he said that, it's because everybody's adrenaline is going and sometimes, 178 00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:30,700 Beth, you question, did I really see what I just saw? 179 00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:34,180 So details are really, really important. 180 00:10:34,180 --> 00:10:40,180 It seems that William Henry Theodore Durant, I'm going to call him Theo, was the person 181 00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:43,460 the eyewitnesses saw walking away with Blanche. 182 00:10:43,460 --> 00:10:49,460 Theo was a medical student, like I had mentioned, but he also just happened to be the assistant 183 00:10:49,460 --> 00:10:54,780 superintendent of the Emmanuel Baptist Church Sunday School program. 184 00:10:54,780 --> 00:10:58,860 And remember, I had told you Blanche was a member of that church. 185 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:04,340 So I think it's pretty clear that Blanche probably knew Theo as he approached, and that's 186 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:05,740 why she left with him. 187 00:11:05,740 --> 00:11:06,740 Yeah. 188 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:11,860 Police immediately tried to locate Theo, but he had slipped away to work with the San Francisco 189 00:11:11,860 --> 00:11:17,820 Signals Corp, an extension of the United States Army that was in charge of communications, 190 00:11:17,820 --> 00:11:21,880 which was first established during the Civil War two decades earlier. 191 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,540 So yeah, times are changing here. 192 00:11:23,540 --> 00:11:27,700 The telephone was patented back in 1876. 193 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:32,140 So there's a lot going on, and I think that's pretty cool that they had a communication 194 00:11:32,140 --> 00:11:34,380 system already set up so long ago. 195 00:11:34,380 --> 00:11:36,260 That's quite an advancement. 196 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:42,140 Well, don't think that I knew that the telephone was invented off the top of my head, Beth, 197 00:11:42,140 --> 00:11:48,060 because I think of these little things as I am refining the script, and I'm like, I 198 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:50,500 want to go look up to see when that telephone was invented. 199 00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:52,100 Oh, for sure. 200 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:56,140 But remember that engineering test that I took when I wanted to start teaching audio 201 00:11:56,140 --> 00:11:57,140 video? 202 00:11:57,140 --> 00:11:58,140 Yes. 203 00:11:58,140 --> 00:11:59,140 Okay. 204 00:11:59,140 --> 00:12:03,700 Well, I actually had to know who invented bifocals and the steamboat. 205 00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:04,700 You're kidding. 206 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:09,820 No, I think that's so important to know when I'm teaching students how to use a field 207 00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:10,820 camera. 208 00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:11,900 Come on. 209 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:16,060 Beth was quickly caught up with Theo Durant and brought him in for questioning. 210 00:12:16,060 --> 00:12:20,860 Of course, Theo is going to 100% deny any involvement. 211 00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:22,700 So what do the police do? 212 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:27,100 They take his word for it and dropped him as an immediate suspect. 213 00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:28,740 For goodness sakes. 214 00:12:28,740 --> 00:12:29,740 I know. 215 00:12:29,740 --> 00:12:34,780 Well, I'm thinking, Beth, that they probably dropped him as a suspect because they discovered 216 00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:37,200 Theo's status within the church. 217 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,440 If he had a pretty big role there, of course they're going to take his word for it. 218 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,500 If he's a man of God, right? 219 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:43,500 Right. 220 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:47,940 A few days had passed since the murders and a couple of things happened here. 221 00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:52,900 Number one, Blanche Lamont's aunt received a package in the mail containing her niece's 222 00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:56,600 rings that she had been wearing on the day that she disappeared. 223 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:02,940 But not before an unidentified man attempted to pawn these rings at a local pawn shop. 224 00:13:02,940 --> 00:13:05,340 Interesting that they had pawn shops back then. 225 00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:07,540 Yeah, that is really weird. 226 00:13:07,540 --> 00:13:12,040 Well, I'm not sure why the transaction never took place at the pawn shop, but the rings 227 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,580 were mailed to Blanche's aunt. 228 00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:15,580 Interesting. 229 00:13:15,580 --> 00:13:21,380 Now, number two, you know that this was a major news break with the local newspapers. 230 00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:25,980 Theo Durant's picture was published as a major suspect in the case. 231 00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:27,940 And guess what? 232 00:13:27,940 --> 00:13:28,940 What? 233 00:13:28,940 --> 00:13:34,220 This is when Blanche's three classmates, who she was with at the time when that man approached 234 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:40,340 and tipped his hat, they came forward and gave a positive description that Theo Durant 235 00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:47,660 was indeed the man that had approached them on April 3rd, the man that was in the newspaper. 236 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:48,660 That's interesting. 237 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:50,560 Yeah, it's very interesting. 238 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:55,060 But this is where I say crooks are stupid because Beth, it didn't really seem that Theo was 239 00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:57,300 even attempting to disguise himself. 240 00:13:57,300 --> 00:13:59,440 But do they do that back then? 241 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,440 You would think they never found Jack the Ripper. 242 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,440 Very true. 243 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:08,060 It's worse though, because everything just kind of adds up because another eyewitness 244 00:14:08,060 --> 00:14:12,620 who lived just across the street from the college campus came forward as well. 245 00:14:12,620 --> 00:14:17,780 And this eyewitness was keeping watch because there had been some break-ins in the area. 246 00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:23,120 She took up an observation station in her upstairs window and decided to do a little 247 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,820 knitting and just keeping watch over the city. 248 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:26,820 How cool is that? 249 00:14:26,820 --> 00:14:28,500 Yeah, I think I would be right with her. 250 00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:29,500 I'd be knitting. 251 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:30,980 Have you knitted anything lately? 252 00:14:30,980 --> 00:14:34,900 Well, I'm currently doing my biggest project. 253 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:41,980 It's 96 by 6 squares and they're all the same house, but just in different colors. 254 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:43,500 What are you making that into? 255 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:44,500 Like a quilt? 256 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:45,500 Yeah, into an afghan. 257 00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:46,500 Oh my goodness. 258 00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:47,500 Show me pictures. 259 00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:48,500 That's going to be amazing. 260 00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:52,820 I'll have to send that to you of what it's going to be. 261 00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:54,240 Yeah, for sure. 262 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,700 And to our listeners, if you don't know Beth well, she is all about getting things done 263 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:02,860 in time for Christmas. 264 00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:08,460 When the witness in the window first saw Theo, she noticed that he was pacing up and down 265 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:11,180 the street for almost a full hour. 266 00:15:11,180 --> 00:15:13,700 Yeah, I'm thinking that's a little odd. 267 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:15,820 I'd be paying attention too. 268 00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:21,860 Theo Durant eventually approached Blanche and her classmates and the Good Samaritan 269 00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:26,060 knitter also confirmed seeing Blanche walking off with Theo. 270 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:28,580 There seems to be an awful lot of witnesses. 271 00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:30,220 Absolutely, Beth. 272 00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:37,460 And that's just the tip of the iceberg because this woman amongst others went on to testify 273 00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:43,620 in court later that she saw this man tip his hat at the four women in the street. 274 00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:49,540 She too assumed that Blanche knew him and she went about her day after the group split 275 00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:50,540 up. 276 00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:56,020 Another eyewitness on the trolley that Blanche and Theo had boarded came forward to say that 277 00:15:56,020 --> 00:16:01,580 they happen to know Theo very well and sat directly across from the couple while exchanging 278 00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:03,860 pleasantries on their trip. 279 00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:08,300 Another person reported that he tried to get Theo's attention on the trolley, but Theo 280 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:12,140 just seemed to be too smitten with Blanche to notice him. 281 00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:16,440 So that witness didn't really persist getting Theo's attention after that. 282 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,060 He just let them be on their way. 283 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:25,120 Two more witnesses near Emmanuel Baptist Church observed Theo and Blanche approach the church 284 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,420 and go inside. 285 00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:29,220 So lots and lots of eyewitnesses here. 286 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:30,220 Yes. 287 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:36,940 This is where I'm saying Theo Durant is really sloppy because he had all of these eyewitnesses 288 00:16:36,940 --> 00:16:40,920 who chronicled his every move throughout the entire day. 289 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,340 They positively identified him. 290 00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:48,500 So Beth, I'm pretty sure he was a cooked goose from the get-go, but either he was oblivious 291 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:50,020 or just plain stupid. 292 00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:53,020 So now I'm just wondering what his IQ is. 293 00:16:53,020 --> 00:16:57,340 Do you think I looked that one up? because I looked up when the telephone was invented. 294 00:16:57,340 --> 00:16:58,500 Did you look it up? 295 00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:00,820 I did look it up, but I couldn't find it. 296 00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:01,820 Oh. 297 00:17:01,820 --> 00:17:05,460 Plus I don't understand what the numbers would mean anyways. 298 00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:07,420 Oh, I would have let you know. 299 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:11,420 I think the average person has like a 111, 111. 300 00:17:11,420 --> 00:17:15,460 And I think Einstein was something like 140, 160. 301 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:19,220 I can't really remember off the top of my head, but yeah. 302 00:17:19,220 --> 00:17:24,880 So sorry, no information on Theo's IQ, but I'm thinking it's rather low in comparison 303 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,060 to other people that we know when they have high IQs. 304 00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:35,780 All of these eyewitness accounts led to Theo's arrest and every one of them remained steadfast 305 00:17:35,780 --> 00:17:37,300 throughout Theo's trial. 306 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:38,300 All right. 307 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:43,480 There was one last witness who just happened to show up to practice the organ inside the 308 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,180 church for the upcoming Easter service. 309 00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:48,500 Again, I told you I digress, Beth. 310 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:50,280 I don't like the organ. 311 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:51,280 Do you? 312 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,280 No. 313 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,280 Why not? 314 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:54,280 I really enjoy the sound of a piano. 315 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:55,280 Yeah, me too. 316 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:01,160 The organ is just so mysterious and deep and I think that's what it is. 317 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,780 It's not a happy sound. 318 00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:04,120 It's ominous. 319 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:05,120 It's ominous. 320 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:06,820 Well, guess what? 321 00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:07,820 What? 322 00:18:07,820 --> 00:18:10,420 I discovered why I don't like the organ sound. 323 00:18:10,420 --> 00:18:11,420 Why? 324 00:18:11,420 --> 00:18:15,080 I have a student that helped me figure this out just a couple of weeks ago. 325 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:22,020 I don't know why, but he takes to me and he very proudly rolled in an old organ into my 326 00:18:22,020 --> 00:18:23,020 classroom. 327 00:18:23,020 --> 00:18:25,700 Yes, into my classroom. 328 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:26,700 From where? 329 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:27,820 He had purchased it. 330 00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:31,460 It was a really old one from probably the 1960s. 331 00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:36,300 I think he's a collector of musical instruments. 332 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:41,540 He knew that I don't like the sound of the organ and I saw him at the opposite end of 333 00:18:41,540 --> 00:18:43,900 the hall tinkering with a big box. 334 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,180 I was like, what in the world is he doing? 335 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:47,620 Well, guess what? 336 00:18:47,620 --> 00:18:51,940 Couple of minutes later, he comes rolling that thing in all proud to say, look, this 337 00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:52,940 is what I bought. 338 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:54,100 I'm going to fix it up. 339 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:56,700 I just need to find the parts. 340 00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:02,340 He has been working with something on the organ called the vibrato because there is 341 00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:07,820 a little switch that you can turn off and on to change the vibrato. 342 00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:11,700 If it's turned off, it has a smooth sound. 343 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:16,980 If you turn it on, then all of a sudden there's that little wavy sound and I guess that's 344 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:21,720 where the ominous sound comes in, but there's a distinct sound. 345 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,380 You'll have to go look that up. 346 00:19:23,380 --> 00:19:28,060 That is why I don't like the organ is because of the vibrato sound. 347 00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:29,060 Okay. 348 00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:30,060 Isn't that interesting? 349 00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:31,060 Yes. 350 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:36,700 I have waited all my life and you have too and so have our listeners to understand why 351 00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:37,700 I do not like the organ. 352 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:40,700 I thought that was pretty cool. 353 00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:43,460 You're so funny. 354 00:19:43,460 --> 00:19:44,940 So I told you, I digress. 355 00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:47,100 So all right, quit getting me off track bath. 356 00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:49,140 Come on now. 357 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:51,500 All right. 358 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:52,980 Back to Theo Durant. 359 00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:58,740 The organist told investigators how surprised he was when minutes after he had entered the 360 00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:04,700 church, Theo came stumbling down the belfry stairs, acting all out of sorts. 361 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:11,500 Theo feigned illness from repairing the gas lines and asked the young lad if his eyes were bloodshot. 362 00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:12,820 That's a weird question. 363 00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:13,820 Yes. 364 00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:18,380 The organist confirmed and Theo asked him to go fetch him some medicine from the local 365 00:20:18,380 --> 00:20:19,380 drug store. 366 00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:23,620 Of course, the organist obliged and quickly went on his way. 367 00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:29,540 Now when he returned, he said that Theo seemed to be much better, but he did notice a spot 368 00:20:29,540 --> 00:20:34,420 of blood on a nearby mirror, but thought nothing of it at the time. 369 00:20:34,420 --> 00:20:38,140 And the two men ended up leaving the church together shortly thereafter. 370 00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:44,100 Well, that's weird that somebody would say, do you have bloodshot eyes to even notice? 371 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:45,100 Yes, exactly. 372 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,620 It's like bringing attention to yourself. 373 00:20:47,620 --> 00:20:50,780 Theo Durant is just a dumb criminal. 374 00:20:50,780 --> 00:20:51,860 Yes. 375 00:20:51,860 --> 00:20:53,500 That's the only word I can think of for him. 376 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:54,500 All right. 377 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:59,620 With everything stacked against him, Theo Durant was arrested and stood trial for the 378 00:20:59,620 --> 00:21:06,060 murders of Blanche Lamont and Minnie Williams, which by the way, in case Beth, you have not 379 00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:07,820 caught onto this yet. 380 00:21:07,820 --> 00:21:12,060 Minnie Williams is also the name of one of H.H. 381 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:13,540 Holmes victims. 382 00:21:13,540 --> 00:21:15,140 Oh, yeah. 383 00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:18,420 I do remember that now. 384 00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:19,420 Yes. 385 00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:23,540 I was going to look up the pictures of Minnie and then I was like, this does not look like 386 00:21:23,540 --> 00:21:25,560 the Minnie and the other picture. 387 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,620 So of course, when I'm looking at the headlines, it associated Minnie Williams with H.H. 388 00:21:30,620 --> 00:21:31,620 Holmes. 389 00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:36,520 To our listeners, go back to episode eight and nine in season one of Dying to Be Found 390 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,620 and learn all about H.H. 391 00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:39,620 Holmes. 392 00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:40,980 Gosh, has it been that long? 393 00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:41,980 It has. 394 00:21:41,980 --> 00:21:42,980 Yeah. 395 00:21:42,980 --> 00:21:45,100 Beth, we're getting close to a hundred episodes here. 396 00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:46,100 Good. 397 00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:47,100 Yeah. 398 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:52,780 Despite their best attempts, Theo's defense team did try to discredit every one of those 399 00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:58,260 eyewitness accounts during his trial because every single person I had mentioned had seen 400 00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:02,380 Theo and Blanche together and accounted for their actions. 401 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:06,180 They held steadfast to their testimony and never wavered. 402 00:22:06,180 --> 00:22:10,660 Obviously, Beth, when you tell the truth, it's so much easier to keep up with than telling 403 00:22:10,660 --> 00:22:11,660 lies. 404 00:22:11,660 --> 00:22:17,060 Just what Judge Judy says on her shows every day. 405 00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:18,620 I saw her a couple of weeks ago. 406 00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:20,860 I cannot believe her show is still on. 407 00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:21,860 Oh yes. 408 00:22:21,860 --> 00:22:24,140 I watch it between four and five. 409 00:22:24,140 --> 00:22:25,420 Oh, that's awesome. 410 00:22:25,420 --> 00:22:26,420 Yeah. 411 00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:27,420 She's sassy. 412 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:28,420 That's why I like her. 413 00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:34,100 Well, Theo even tried to deny his whereabouts throughout the entire trial, denying he ever 414 00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:38,780 met up with Blanche and called every single witness a liar. 415 00:22:38,780 --> 00:22:39,940 I mean, come on, Theo. 416 00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:41,100 Who's the liar here? 417 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:47,480 Theo testified that he was at Emmanuel Baptist Church all day the day that Blanche disappeared 418 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,940 fixing those leaky gas pipes and the organist could testify of his whereabouts. 419 00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:58,180 However, after a thorough investigation of the gas lines, the prosecution noted that 420 00:22:58,180 --> 00:23:02,820 there was no need for repairs and they were in perfect working condition. 421 00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:05,940 Now, I had mentioned that Theo was a medical student. 422 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:11,820 Also, when that testimony did not work in his favor, Theo contradicted himself and said 423 00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:17,380 that he was attending class that day during the entire sequence of events from which he 424 00:23:17,380 --> 00:23:18,380 was accused. 425 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:24,700 Theo's medical professors testified that Theo was indeed absent from class on the day of 426 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:26,780 April 3rd, 1895. 427 00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:30,740 And I'm going to tell you, Beth, taking attendance is really important here because there was 428 00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:36,940 a couple of years ago when I had another student who skipped class, I had marked them absent 429 00:23:36,940 --> 00:23:38,600 and I also use another system. 430 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:39,880 It's called Class Dojo. 431 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,780 If you're a teacher, you know what that is, but it's basically a system that you can do 432 00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:45,620 reward points and things like that. 433 00:23:45,620 --> 00:23:48,980 So good points, bad points, you can mark people absent that day. 434 00:23:48,980 --> 00:23:54,940 My administrators came to me one day asking if I had marked this student absent in Class 435 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:56,580 Dojo and I had. 436 00:23:56,580 --> 00:24:00,860 So this kid adamantly denied skipping class. 437 00:24:00,860 --> 00:24:07,000 Her parents believed this child and of course called the school to complain until they could 438 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000 show my documentation. 439 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,180 Yeah, that's so important. 440 00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:11,180 I know, right? 441 00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:15,940 And you know, they didn't even expect that I use Class Dojo, but I do a lot of employability 442 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:17,080 skills in my class. 443 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,560 So I'm trying to teach kids work ethic. 444 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,980 They email me when they know they're going to be absent or they will get a no call, no 445 00:24:23,980 --> 00:24:24,980 show. 446 00:24:24,980 --> 00:24:27,940 Just trying to get these kids groomed to be working in the real world. 447 00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:31,340 Well, they work with me. 448 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:38,380 Teachers always, always told us that the real working world will not put up with those shenanigans. 449 00:24:38,380 --> 00:24:42,220 Well those shenanigans happen and they're not dealt with. 450 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:44,460 No, they're really, really not. 451 00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:45,460 And you're so right. 452 00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:48,260 Cause I dealt with that in the corporate world quite a bit. 453 00:24:48,260 --> 00:24:49,620 And then I had to manage them. 454 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:50,620 Holy cow. 455 00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:53,620 Managing adults. 456 00:24:53,620 --> 00:24:54,620 That sigh says it. 457 00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:55,620 Yeah. 458 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:56,980 I have to shake my head at that one. 459 00:24:56,980 --> 00:24:57,980 All right. 460 00:24:57,980 --> 00:25:04,220 Well, clearly we have an open and shut case here and clearly William Henry Theodore Durant 461 00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:06,940 is the poster child for Crooks are Stupid. 462 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:12,580 I mentioned earlier that Minnie was also a member of Emmanuel Baptist Church and it seems 463 00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:17,660 that Theo had taken a liking to her through his interactions during Sunday school. 464 00:25:17,660 --> 00:25:22,820 However, Minnie didn't feel the same way because one eyewitness did come forward to 465 00:25:22,820 --> 00:25:28,820 claim that Minnie and Theo were seen outside of Emmanuel Church having a heated discussion 466 00:25:28,820 --> 00:25:34,220 before entering the church where Minnie was never seen alive again. 467 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:38,940 Durant's jury of peers voted unanimously that he was guilty and Theo was sentenced 468 00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:40,900 to death by hanging. 469 00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:47,380 Now remember Beth, this is the 1800s and normally we don't talk about the appeals process, 470 00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:52,500 but I found some of the content that I wanted to bring up a few talking points where Theo's 471 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:56,100 defense had entered into court records. 472 00:25:56,100 --> 00:26:01,460 Number one, the defense argued that it was better to acquit based on the innocence of 473 00:26:01,460 --> 00:26:06,180 one man versus the fact that many other persons could have escaped. 474 00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:11,020 I'm thinking this is in reference to the fact that there were two victims here, Beth, and 475 00:26:11,020 --> 00:26:15,960 they didn't have to go with Theo, so they were probably insinuating that there was somebody 476 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,820 else involved. 477 00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:24,700 Number two, the defense also argued that Theo's identity could not be established beyond a 478 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:26,380 reasonable doubt. 479 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:28,220 I mean, pause. 480 00:26:28,220 --> 00:26:34,820 People witnesses with unwavering testimony could not establish a clear identification 481 00:26:34,820 --> 00:26:35,980 of a perpetrator? 482 00:26:35,980 --> 00:26:41,500 Yeah, that's kind of strange with multiple, I mean, multiple people. 483 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:42,500 Absolutely. 484 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:47,900 Well, the defense also argued that Theo had established an alibi or two. 485 00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:49,540 I mean, which one was he doing though? 486 00:26:49,540 --> 00:26:52,060 The gas leak or attending class? 487 00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:53,060 Exactly. 488 00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:59,420 Therefore, the jury failed to take Theo's character into consideration after all, Beth, 489 00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:05,260 he was an assistant superintendent of the Emmanuel Baptist Church Sunday School program. 490 00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:10,540 Last but not least, the prosecution could not prove that these murders were not conducted 491 00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:16,980 by anyone besides Theo Durant, plus the prosecution could not establish a clear motive. 492 00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:18,300 Like, what? 493 00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:19,300 Okay. 494 00:27:19,300 --> 00:27:24,220 I've read dozens more citations for acquittal by the defense, but these were just some of 495 00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:25,940 the highlights that I read through. 496 00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:31,740 Regardless, for every appeal set forth in court files, the defense cited multiple court 497 00:27:31,740 --> 00:27:34,460 cases to back up their facts. 498 00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:35,940 I thought that was interesting. 499 00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:40,260 I mean, they had court cases to say the same thing they were arguing, so. 500 00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:42,020 And that goes back so far. 501 00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:44,380 It's like almost the beginning of time. 502 00:27:44,380 --> 00:27:45,380 Absolutely. 503 00:27:45,380 --> 00:27:46,380 Okay. 504 00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:50,220 So, do you think Theo won his appeal or did he not? 505 00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:52,340 I think he probably did. 506 00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:53,340 Nope. 507 00:27:53,340 --> 00:28:01,180 On January 7th, 1898, Theo Durant was executed by hanging for the deaths of Blanche Lamont 508 00:28:01,180 --> 00:28:03,140 and Minnie Williams. 509 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:06,620 And that is the story of the demon in the belfry. 510 00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:07,620 That was a good one. 511 00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:10,020 I'm kind of intrigued by a few things. 512 00:28:10,020 --> 00:28:15,940 One being that they were able to go back and look at other cases during the court case. 513 00:28:15,940 --> 00:28:16,940 Absolutely. 514 00:28:16,940 --> 00:28:17,940 I know. 515 00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:18,940 Yeah. 516 00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:22,140 Like you said, we're going back to the beginning of time if it wasn't in the Bible. 517 00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:23,140 Yes. 518 00:28:23,140 --> 00:28:24,140 All right. 519 00:28:24,140 --> 00:28:26,340 So Deb, do you have a teachable moment for us today? 520 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:27,340 Yes, Beth. 521 00:28:27,340 --> 00:28:28,940 In fact, I do. 522 00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:34,980 And I think the teachable moment here is going to bring us to modern times, obviously, but 523 00:28:34,980 --> 00:28:37,020 I think we just need to look up. 524 00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:42,020 Look up from your cell phones, even to take a glance around from what's happening around 525 00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:43,020 you. 526 00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:44,340 We wear earbuds. 527 00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:47,140 We are looking at our cell phones. 528 00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:52,460 We're looking at our tablets, but we still need to be aware of our surroundings. 529 00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:57,980 Besides, Beth, staring at your cell phone and wearing full headphones today out in public 530 00:28:57,980 --> 00:28:59,300 is not safe. 531 00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:01,540 You don't know who's watching you. 532 00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:02,540 Amen. 533 00:29:02,540 --> 00:29:07,340 If you're going to wear earphones or earbuds, Beth, just wear one because you need to not 534 00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:09,740 just see what's going on around you. 535 00:29:09,740 --> 00:29:12,980 You need to hear what's going on around you as well. 536 00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:18,140 Staring at your cell phone and wearing full earphones is not safe in today's world. 537 00:29:18,140 --> 00:29:21,060 And Beth, you just don't know who's watching you. 538 00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:26,900 I personally am a people watcher and you do see quite a lot of various behaviors. 539 00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:31,580 Look at that woman who was just observing while she was knitting up in the window. 540 00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:32,580 Exactly. 541 00:29:32,580 --> 00:29:38,900 I know today's storyline took place almost 130 years ago when times were simpler, but 542 00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:44,820 we do live in a world now where you just never know when seeing something can make a difference 543 00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:47,460 like it did in Blanche and Minnie's case. 544 00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:51,260 So my teachable moment here, Beth, is to look up. 545 00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:54,180 Take an inventory of what's going on around you. 546 00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:58,860 It could very well make a difference in someone's life, maybe even your own. 547 00:29:58,860 --> 00:29:59,920 Very true. 548 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,860 That was a very good story, Deb. 549 00:30:01,860 --> 00:30:03,540 Thanks for sharing it. 550 00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:04,540 Absolutely. 551 00:30:04,540 --> 00:30:10,260 Thanks for being here with me today and dropping in, it was always good to see my sister. 552 00:30:10,260 --> 00:30:13,820 Yes, I enjoy seeing you too. 553 00:30:13,820 --> 00:30:18,460 Life gets so busy, but we're making the effort and that's what I love about this podcast. 554 00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:25,420 So, all right, we would love to receive your feedback on this storyline or any of our other 555 00:30:25,420 --> 00:30:26,500 episodes. 556 00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:29,820 Be sure to DM us on Instagram or TikTok. 557 00:30:29,820 --> 00:30:31,940 Until next time, see you soon. 558 00:30:31,940 --> 00:30:33,860 And that's a wrap. 559 00:30:33,860 --> 00:30:35,060 That is a wrap. 560 00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:37,140 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. 561 00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:42,380 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 562 00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:48,060 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 563 00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:53,940 You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking 564 00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:56,740 on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 565 00:30:56,740 --> 00:31:02,220 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at BuyMeACoffee.com slash Dying 566 00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:05,500 to be Found spelled just like you see it on our logo. 567 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:09,100 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. 568 00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:14,120 With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. 569 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,980 We will talk to you all next week. 570 00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:16,980 Bye. 571 00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:34,740 Oh.