Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Deb, your host from Dying to be Found True Crime Podcast.
Thank you so much for choosing our little indie podcast today.
I love to say that this is a family thing and today my sister Beth is back to listen to Beth.
What I say is a spectacular episode on a case that I have never heard before.
And you just said the same thing right before we came on.
So hang tight. You are really going to want to listen to this.
Gosh, Beth, I'm excited to see you. It has been way too long.
I think almost all summer. How are you?
I'm doing well. Thank you. Yes, it's been a heck of a long time.
It has. So I know you've been really busy. I appreciate you being here today.
You are my family. I always love to catch up with you.
But before I get started, I just wanted to talk about growing up in Canada for just a moment.
I want to say from what I remember living there, did we have a pretty big United States influence in our lives?
I feel like we did. We did because our family was in the States.
So true. And I don't know if you remember this, but when we moved to that condo in the city,
we got our very first cable channels. Do you remember that? No.
You don't remember that little box sitting on the console television?
And we had to go over there and press two rows of buttons to decide which channel we were going to watch.
I don't. That's the problem with growing older.
Well, I loved it. And I discovered that I loved baseball because I used to watch the Cleveland Indians all the time.
Did you? Yeah. And then remember how we used to go across the border to go shopping and things like that?
Oh, yes. Yeah. So what comes to mind when I say the word Boston, Massachusetts?
The Boston Strangler. Oh, oh, we talked about me doing that, didn't we?
Yeah, I haven't had time. So we're going to go in a different direction today.
Okay. Boston is a city I've always wanted to see and New York and Chicago.
Yes. Now I've been to Chicago. Oh, I've been to New York a dozen times. I love that city.
It's everything that you see on TV with the big Times Square. Oh, we need to take a trip there.
We do. We need to meet there. Let's do it. Stop talking about it. Let's do it.
That would be cool. Okay. So when I think of Boston, believe it or not,
I think of Cheers. Did you ever watch that show? Yes, I sure did.
Yeah. It's like an old town and it's just a really cool city. I would love to go there.
That's on my bucket list. And today we are going to take a trip to Boston.
Great. And it doesn't even cost me anything.
Well, I don't think that you're going to like this trip because we are,
unfortunately, we're going to be talking about a string of murders that occurred
back in the 1870s. So hang tight, buckle up. 1870s. Wonderful.
Yes. I know that you like your old stories and I guess that's the Victorian era.
I wanted to give a little bit of a disclaimer here before we get started. Yes, we are true crime,
but I do want to let our listeners know that there are children involved today. And I am going to
try to stay away from anything graphic, but just know ahead of time, I will give you warning when
I do have to talk about a couple of things that, oh goodness, Beth, before we even started recording
today, I was telling you how I really try not to be very graphic in what I talk about. But for the
purpose of today's conversation, there may be one or two things that I talk about that I will just
warn our listeners ahead of time that you might want to skip ahead for just a couple of minutes.
Sounds good. Back in the 1870s, children between the ages of three and nine were being tortured
and disfigured with pins, knives, wood blanks, anything, you name it. And when I say wood blank,
it's just think of a flat wood that would be used like a baseball bat of sorts. And all this was
happening in the metropolitan area. Of course, back in the 1870s, there was no metropolitan area,
but it was happening around the Boston areas of Chelsea, Dorchester, and Jamaica. So I'm going
to go ahead and tell you upfront who the perpetrator was here. His name is Jesse Pomeroy. He was a young
lad from the Chelsea area who he was soon discovered to be the assailant of these victims. And Beth,
when I say a young lad, I mean that Jesse went on his crime spree between the ages of 12 and 14.
That is so young. My gosh. Very young. He is the youngest serial killer ever to be recorded in
history. So he was killing people at 12 years old? He was. Oh, he was, which I'm going to get into
in just a little bit. I wanted to start off though, by giving you a little bit of Jesse's
background. He was born on November 29th, 1859 and grew up in a very small town called Chelsea,
which is east of Boston, Massachusetts. He was born with a defect on his right eye,
which to my understanding, Beth, I don't think he was blind, but his eye looked like a white marble.
That's how some people described it. And he definitely had a very distinct feature that
really could not go unnoticed. What do you know about children who have defects? Oh, they get
teased terribly. Absolutely. And unfortunately, Jesse did succumb to that. He was ridiculed not
only by other children at school, but by his own father. Oh, you know, when I was putting this
story together, Beth, I kind of get that because I don't know if you remember how chapped my lips
used to get when I was a kid. Oh, you were teased relentlessly by family. I sure was. And you know
what? I will say this, nobody at school ever teased me, but yes, family members did. And that
kind of sticks with me so I can understand the feeling behind all that. And I will say this,
your daughter has done a study on chapstick and how it can be addictive, right? Right. That was one
thing that mom always said is that you're going to get addicted to that. So she never allowed me to
put chapstick on my lips. And that's why they got as bad as they did. And if any of our listeners
want to know what that looks like, it's just basically just a red rash around the mouth,
because when you lick your lips, you think you're moistening them, but you're not. It's just making
them drier. So in the winter months, I always had to deal with that. And I'm telling you now,
to this day, you will always find chapstick on me. Probably six little tubes. I have it in my
bedside table. I put Vaseline on my lips before I go to bed. Yeah. I just do all that. And it's funny
because just like two weeks ago at work, I heard somebody say, Hey man, do you have chapstick?
Guess what? I did. He wasn't even asking me, but I was like, I heard him say it. I said,
I got you. I got you. I got some chapstick. And I think it was like a flavored cocoa. I was like,
hope you don't mind flavored cocoa, but here you go. And I was like, I don't even need it back.
All right. Now, besides the constant verbal abuse sustained by his father, Jesse also endured
regular beatings from him with a horse whip or a leather belt. Some of the articles that I read
said that Mr. Pomeroy was an alcoholic. And I think that you probably know how liquor can
alter somebody's mood. Yes, for sure. Jesse's defense mechanisms quickly set in and he began
to isolate himself from pretty much everyone at a young age. Now, the problem here is that around
the age of 12, despite the amount of bullying that he endured, Jesse became a bully himself.
So who do you think he targeted? My guess is family. He did have siblings and I believe he was,
I feel like he was the oldest one. He did have at least one sibling. I didn't see much in that
writing because everything I read was really on everything that Jesse did from the age of 12 and
14. But who he really targeted Beth was younger children, much smaller than him. Oh, poor things.
As Jesse became a loner, he was quite keen on reading dime store crime novels that could be
compared according to psychiatrists to today's violent video game content. Really? Some of these
novels may have given Jesse ideas that eventually led him to act out in his fantasies. But when asked
later why he did such horrible things, Jesse really couldn't give a clear explanation.
The one person who did try to comfort him as he was growing up was Jesse's mother. I think that
she probably saw that he was struggling. He was isolating himself and that's a good thing, right?
Nurturing mother trying to comfort her son. Oh, for sure. Well, although mom did her best to
console Jesse, she couldn't help but notice when he began torturing and killing small animals.
And Beth, we know what people turn into when they start doing this. Oh, for sure. Big time criminals.
Yes. Well, Jesse's mother wrote this off as her son simply being sad. And I guess I get it because
Beth, we all think our children are perfect. Plus this was the mid 1880s. So this was a time before
we really knew that this was a trait of known serial killers. Let's take a look at Jeffrey
Dahmer here for just a moment. I've seen enough documentaries where his dad entertained Jeff's
fascination with animal bones. Yes. Because he thought it was just a young kid being curious
about science and he encouraged that. He did. I watched a show recently on it and I'm sure you did
too. Really opened up my eyes. Really. It's like I blame the father for a lot of what went on.
I don't think it's normal to let a child live in the house by themselves. But when he was younger,
I mean, he was probably thinking, oh, this is a great activity that I can spend time with my son
doing. I mean, I can't fully blame him for that, but I see what you're saying. Absolutely. Because
he encouraged it, right? He sure did. But unknowingly. And that's the thing that I think I just,
you know, in his defense, he probably had no idea. And then think about this too, even as late as
the 1970s. And today we're talking about the 1800s. You know, there was not a lot of things
to keep people occupied. You had to use your imaginations. There's only so many things that
you can do. And obviously back in the 1800s, they didn't have television, they didn't have radio,
anything like that. So you had to use your imagination a little bit more. Exactly. Well,
between 1871 and 1872, a total of seven young boys around Chelsea, Massachusetts began getting
assaulted both physically and sexually by an adolescent boy. These children were often lured
away by money or candy. The unidentified boy would take the children off to isolated areas,
strip them naked and beat them with a rope or strike them in the face with that board that I
had mentioned. One boy was tied to a telegraph pole, beaten, maimed and stabbed with a knife.
That is just awful. Like I don't even understand how somebody so young can think to do that.
Now here's the deal, Beth. We know our brains are not fully developed until what, around the age of
25, 26 years old. Bingo. I was just told that. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah. This is honestly,
no offense to my audience that might be listening, but I do have to kind of say that to myself
sometimes when these kids act the way they do. Anyway, so the Boston Globe, which is a very big
newspaper outlet, got wind of what was happening in Chelsea and quickly labeled this attacker as
the boy fiend because the children who were being attacked were able to at least give a description
of this child. They knew that he was probably an adolescent. So the Boston Globe labeled him as
the boy fiend. Well, eventually, let me just tell you this, Jesse's mother sold newspapers at her
place of business. At the time she was running a five and dime store, which I think that's probably
where he got those books from that he was reading, but she also sold newspapers. Imagine her surprise
back when she opened the paper one morning and recognized the description of this child perpetrator
as her own son, Jesse. That's pretty horrific. I mean, to open up a newspaper and recognize your
own child. Yeah. I don't think there was a picture of him, but the description with his eye defect
definitely gave him away. Of course, Jesse's mom did as most protective mothers would do. She
uprooted the family and booked it to South Boston, a whole 4.6 miles or 7.4 kilometers away, which I
guess back in the 1870s, it was a pretty long distance back then. Well, it must have been if
she uprooted them, but it might, gosh, it's just not enough. No. And I told you I've moved out to
the boondocks and now I have to drive six miles to the grocery store. And that's a long way to me.
All right. On February 21st, 1872, after the Pomeroy family settled into a flat on Broadway
street in South Boston, Mrs. Pomeroy set up a dress shop in town and everything went back to normal,
or as normal as it could be with an abusive husband in the household. But I read from multiple
sources, Beth, it's not really clear either Mr. and Mrs. Pomeroy at this point in time, but I
think Mrs. Pomeroy at this point in time were separated or she had just become a widow. I'm
not really clear on that fact. So I'm not sure he's actually in the picture right now. I did my best
to find that if our listeners have any feedback, I would love to hear that DM us on Instagram,
but either way, she seemed to be the active parent in the household. So we're going to move into
September of 1872. So we went from winter time into the fall. So six months have passed. And I
had mentioned some of Jesse's victims earlier and the torture they endured. So the Pomeroy's
settled into South Boston and it was September of 1872 that a small boy was tied to a telegraph pole
and tortured. Interesting that these articles are saying telegraph pole. Yes. So that is around when
Jesse was a child was tortured, unfortunately, but I will say luckily he did survive and was able to
give police a description of the perpetrator. He had a very distinct eye, something which looked
like a marble. Of course, not too many people fit this description except Jesse Pomeroy, a relatively
new resident in town. Jesse was quickly apprehended and sentenced to six years in juvenile detention.
Do you remember when the new jail was being built in the town that we lived in and dad took us on a
tour? Yes. I found that to be very fascinating. Did you like that tour? Yes. And I even got to tour
the old, old one. Really? Yeah. Dad took me there. Oh, did he ever lock you in a cell? Yes.
Yeah. He did the same thing to me. I think he was trying to scare us straight because we didn't want
to end up there. I think pretty much. Yeah. So Jesse went off to juvenile detention and he only
ended up serving 17 months before he was released for good behavior. However, it didn't seem that
Jesse learned his lesson because only within one month of being released, he struck again. And this
is going to lead us into 1874, Beth, just because he did spend time behind bars. Remember that he
was off the streets for just a spell. So I'll just call that his cooling off period while he was in
juvie. I mean, obviously he didn't cool off, but by March 8th, 1874, 10 year old Katie Mary Coran
went missing. Now remember I had told you that Jesse's mom had opened a dress shop in Boston.
Katie had gone in to buy some supplies and was never seen again. A $500 reward was placed in the
newspaper, but no one ever came forward to claim it. And Beth, just so you know, that's about
$12,585 US dollars or $16,995 Canadian dollars today. That's a lot of money. It truly is.
On April 22nd, 1874, two boys set out to play at the beach in South Boston for the day. They had
plans of going clamming. I just told you, kids use your imagination. Have you ever gone clamming?
Yes. When I lived on PEI. Oh, did you catch clams? I did, but you had to be careful because
their razor clams would give you cuts, very like a paper cut. Oh, you just dig them with your hands
or the right way to do it is to get with a shovel, but we just used to do it with the hands. And then
you'd have a little steamed clam dinner. Oh, that's amazing. Well, the boys miscalculated the
tide waters and found it impossible to catch clams that day. So instead they did as kids do.
They were using their imagination and they decided to go exploring. What they found Beth was quite
horrific. Before I continue, Beth, I had mentioned I was going to give a disclaimer that what I'm
about to say is graphic and it does include harm to a child. To our listeners, if you want to skip
ahead probably about 15 seconds, you'll get the gist, but you don't have to listen to it. I just
wanted to throw that out there. During their explorations, the two boys came across a sweet
little four-year-old boy named Horace Millen. He was lying dead in a muddy marshy ditch.
Horace had been stabbed 31 times all over his entire body. Plus it appeared that somebody had
attempted to set him on fire. Dear Lord. Beth, while I was doing my research, I found such a
beautiful picture of little Horace Millen. He's the sweetest little boy with a curly blonde hair.
And for a moment I thought in the picture he was sleeping, but until I actually looked at the
caption, then I saw his name. This in itself is where I say Jesse Pomeroy is a monster.
Yeah, I can see and I can envision that's just horrific that a child could do that.
Yes. And that's what I don't get.
Because I don't think we see that kind of thing these days. Do we? Somebody so young?
No, never. This is the only case that I've ever heard of with a child so young. Not to say that
other people are not out there. I mean, especially with these people who start with small animals,
you know? Right.
It does start in childhood, but then progressing to human beings that young, that's nothing less
than a monster here on earth. Police were called to the scene immediately. And during their
investigation, they found two witnesses who had said that they were near the spot around noon that
day where Horace was discovered. They noticed a tall young boy running away from that area. Jesse
was quickly arrested. He was wearing the same clothes that he had on when he attacked little
Horace. He had blood on his shirt and pants and his shoes had mud on them from that marsh where
footprints were left behind. So they were able to match that up. Well, clearly he does have mental
problems because he didn't have the foresight to take care of that clothing instead of, you know,
leaving it on. Yeah. And I don't know how much time had passed, but if the boys found Horace
very quickly, we have a trail of smoking guns here. But guess what Jesse did? He denied, denied,
denied, ever hurting anyone. Ridiculous, ridiculous.
It is. But here's the thing, Beth, in the next breath, he told police that he couldn't help
himself. So that shows you his mentality of a 12 year old. Actually at this time, I think he was
14, but still, I mean, around that age, you're still a child. Of course, once he was arrested,
many people speculated that his abusive upbringing and his constant bullying due to his birth defect
were contributing factors to his acting out. What do you think of that? I'm convinced so too.
You think so? Yeah. I mean, I suppose it can shape you a little bit into who you are, but I'm going
to say it. Some of it had to have been ingrained in him. Oh yeah. But you're right. If he's enduring
that, it might be more understanding in just a little bit, because I'm going to let some
psychiatrists weigh in here in just a bit. So it'll make sense. All right. It seems that Mrs.
Pomeroy could not take the public scrutiny of what Jessie had done to several children in that
community. So by July, 1874, she had moved out of Broadway street in South Boston. Honestly, she's on
the run too, because she took her son from Chelsea down to South Boston. Soon after the new tenants
moved in, they began to work on some home improvement projects. As the new owners began to
excavate the cellar, Beth, they discovered the remains of a little girl under a pile of ashes
and rubble. No. Yes. The parents of Katie Coran were called to identify the corpse, which they
had affirmed based on the outfit that Katie had been wearing the day she disappeared. Back in March
of that same year, Katie had been brutally stabbed to death before Jessie hid her in the cellar.
Oh my. I guess I'm kind of wondering where is Mrs. Pomeroy at? Because if little Katie went in to get
supplies, how did Jessie intervene? That's my question here. Poor little girl. So now I'm going
to lay out some layman and expert opinions here. As far as the general public, people like you and
me, Beth, believe that Jessie was influenced by those crime books that he was reading back when he
was 12. Remember, I compared that with today's video games. Again, this was the 1800s, so things
were a little bit different, but oh, I'm here to say, Beth, you and I grew up with Nancy Drew,
the Hardy Boys, the Bobsy Twins, not to... You're smiling. Those were really good books.
I guess they were. Not to mention those were always turned into TV shows, right? Yes. Look
what we're doing now. We're talking true crime, but we're not acting on it. Exactly. Okay. So
here's another interesting tidbit. The gossip mill surrounding this case suggested that Jessie
acquired the taste for blood in utero because his mother had stopped by the local slaughterhouse
where her husband worked at the time while she was pregnant with Jessie. Have you heard of such a
thing? No, I don't believe in that. I don't believe that either. That makes no sense to me,
but it's the 1800s. When voodoo dolls were used. Absolutely. Well, here's another angle,
and it actually came from Jessie's own mother. Around the time Jessie was born, remember he was
born in 1859, Boston was experiencing a smallpox epidemic that came and went in waves. Beth, I
think that you and I can put this into perspective. Our listeners can do the same because we can relate
with COVID. Yes. So everybody was being probably very cautious and health risks were high. So when
Jessie was just a couple of weeks old, he received a smallpox vaccination. Unfortunately, Beth,
he was left with weeping sores all over his body for several months. Oh, that poor thing. I know.
Now he was only a couple of weeks old when he got this shot. So Jessie's mother claimed that she was
unable to touch him due to the severe pain that he endured anytime she tried. And this is kind of
what reminded me too, when I was young, I used to get the most severe strep throat in the world,
and I would get those welts in my throat. Yes, you did. Truly. That was probably the most pain
I have ever endured in my life because even with penicillin and stuff, that would last for a good
two weeks. So I get that when Jessie was touched and he had those welts on him, I think the
combination of the effects of that vaccination plus not experiencing a mother's bond could very
well have created Jessie's separation and isolation traits since birth. What do you think of that?
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I do too 100% because they say that the mother's bond is
extremely important. Experts seem to agree with this concept, just like you and me, Beth,
saying that Jessie's trauma at a young age and detachment factors contributed to his impulsive,
violent and psychopathic tendencies. Yeah, so that's definitely a theory I can buy into.
I'm not going to buy into the in utero. Yeah, that's craziness. Yeah, but I am not a scientific
expert in any way, shape or form. I'm just going to let you know what my theory is that I can buy
into. By the end of the year in December, 1874, Jessie Pomeroy went on trial at the ripe old age,
Beth of 14 for the murder of Horace Millen. And because Jessie straight up said he didn't know
why he did these things, his attorneys used this in his defense. Jessie's lawyers argued immoral
insanity, stating that he had an irresistible impulse to torture and kill. To me, Beth,
it just amazes me what lawyers will use in defense to get their clients off. I know that's their job,
but is it ethical? Somebody's got to defend them, right? Somebody does have to, but maybe,
you know what, going back to 1874, perhaps that is what they honestly believed back then because
they didn't have all the modern and scientific evidence. You're right. And you know, that has
come over time. Absolutely. I agree with you with that. Sure. On the flip side, prosecutors stated
that Jessie had acted with premeditation and knew exactly what he was doing. In fact, the state
argued that Jessie Pomeroy was completely sane when he committed his crimes and he simply found
pleasure in torturing those who were too small to defend themselves. Ultimately, Jessie was found
guilty and sentenced to death. He was the youngest person in Massachusetts history to ever sit on
death row. Oh my gosh. Sentenced to death? I mean, he's not a nice kid. He isn't. Obviously,
we're not supposed to be lenient towards, you know, such a monster, but it just seems,
I just had to gasp when you told me that. Yeah, that's a shocking factor. Absolutely. Now,
Jessie's lawyers appealed his sentence and his case was sent to the Supreme Court on February 12th,
1875. The higher courts agreed with his death penalty, Beth. Geez. Well, let me tell you who
didn't agree with this death penalty. Please do. The Massachusetts governor at the time refused
to sign Jessie's death warrant stating that his punishment was entirely too severe for such a
young offender. So apparently, even though it goes through the courts, it's the governor that has to
sign off on all of this. And the next governor of Massachusetts also agreed with his predecessor
and refused to sign Jessie's death warrant. Instead, Jessie was sentenced to solitary confinement
for the rest of his life. And he was sent to Charlestown State Prison to serve out his sentence.
Wow, Beth, solitary confinement. That means he doesn't interact with anybody in the prison
system. I think that's a better... Do you though? Because doesn't that drive people mad? Well,
it does, but he deserved it. Absolutely. I suppose if he's going to serve a life sentence,
I mean, that would probably in itself be severe punishment. Me personally, you know I'm a social
person. I don't think I could handle that. Yeah, I couldn't either. Well, Jessie certainly had a lot
of time to think because he is not interacting with anybody. And during his time in solitary
confinement, Jessie attempted to escape at least 12 times. How in the world would that happen?
Probably he tried to run out. Maybe, but I will say this. I don't know where he got the supplies
from, but Jessie created a gas explosion that was intended to blow his cell door open. Oh my gosh.
And it worked, Beth, only a little bit too well. Jessie was knocked out from the blast
and never made his escape. Oh my gosh. That is amazing. I know. Like where do he get these
supplies from? Exactly. All right. There's something interesting that I know that you are
going to appreciate, Beth, because we've talked about this before. At the height of his notoriety,
Madame Tussaud created a wax figure of Jessie Pomeroy and featured it in her special gallery
set up with murderers and ghouls. What do you think of that? That is very interesting. It is. Now,
if any of our listeners are not familiar with Madame Tussaud, she founded the first wax museum
in 1835 and it was a major attraction during the Victorian era. She did quite well with this because
she developed its main attraction called the Chamber of Horrors. And Beth, we are all fascinated,
unfortunately, with the grim side of life. We are. And I'm going to say that truly goes back to the
beginning of time, but I know when I was a child, wax museums were a really big thing. They certainly
were. Well, in 1917, at the age of 58, Jessie's solitary confinement was commuted and he was
finally placed in the general population in prison where he appeared to be a model prisoner. After
all, Beth, he had spent the majority of his adult life by himself. So what did he do to take up that
time? He began educating himself. Jessie learned six languages and wrote poetry, which was featured
during prison talent shows. He even challenged prison officials with his legal rights as a prisoner.
Wow. I know. By 1929, when his health began to fail, Jessie was eventually transferred to the
Bridgewater Hospital for the Criminally Insane. During his stay, guards discovered saw blades and
other tools in his possession. Obviously, Jessie continued to plot and think. Jessie died in 1932
from a heart attack while he was in prison. He was 74 years old. And Beth, that is the story of Jessie
Pomeroy, the youngest serial killer on record. Well, thank you for that. That was a very
interesting story. I didn't expect to hear anything from a 12 to 14 year old and his antics.
Jeez. I know. I couldn't believe this when I came across this story. I was like,
oh, I got to tell Beth this one. Yes, I'm glad you did. So Deb, do you have a teachable moment for us?
Beth, I always have a teachable moment. I know it's getting a lot harder for criminals to get away
with things these days with DNA and so much more accessible camera footage everywhere you turn. But
one thing that we know is that human behavior hasn't changed very much over time. People are
going to do bad things. And the one thing that struck me here while I was doing my research,
Beth, is how Jessie's mom knew well ahead of time that he was harming small animals. That's really
what struck me here. To me, that's a big red flag. Obviously back in the 1870s, it probably was not,
but I've mentioned that psychiatrists had weighed in on Jessie's mental capacities after he was
caught. Not to mention that hospitals were pretty well established at the time. There were definitely
resources back during Jessie's era as far as getting help with their mental health and even
treatment in hospital facilities. Now, I know that no one wants to believe that their own child is
capable of doing the unthinkable. But if something stands out today, like excessive bullying or
harming small, helpless animals, it's important to get help because these things just are not normal.
And that's my teachable moment. Well, that was a very good one. Why thank you. All right. Well,
we would love to receive feedback from our listeners on this storyline or any of our other
episodes. Be sure to DM us on Instagram and check back with us next Thursday for a new episode of
Dying to be Found. Talk to you soon. And that's a wrap. That is a wrap. Thanks for listening to
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