Hi, I'm Marti and I'm Effie and we are Mums Mysteries and Murder.
We're mums obsessed with true crime and mysterious happenings in our respective countries, Australia
and Scotland.
We talked about it all the time so we thought screw it, let's record that shit and we started
a podcast.
Each month we bring you an episode from either Scotland or Australia, both well known and
less well known.
And we might talk about some other stuff in between too.
So if you love a bit of true crime, weird accents, you love a mystery and you don't
mind a bit of random chat in between, then this is the podcast for you.
You can come and follow us on Instagram at Mums Mysteries and Murder and listen and subscribe
where you get your podcasts.
Bye!
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions
on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this
podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host from the True Crime Podcast.
Dying to be Found and Dying to be Found the Dash.
Every week I bring a different family member in, but today you get to dash in and join
me with a special guest.
Marty from Mums Mysteries and Murderers is here to introduce her own True Crime Podcast.
Unfortunately her partner Effie could not be here today, but I do encourage you to hang
in there because Marty definitely brings you up to speed on what's going on in her neck
of the woods.
So Marty, welcome.
I'm so excited you're here with me today.
Thank you for having me.
It's very exciting being a guest on a podcast, especially today because it's International
Podcast Day today.
I didn't even know that.
That's amazing.
Yes.
What do you say?
Happy International Podcast Day.
To both of us.
Yeah.
You and I have been talking for a couple months.
I'm currently in my second season and to be honest, Marty, I don't know if you understand
how hard it is for me to do the dash by myself.
I'm a people person.
I love talking with others.
So when I reached out to you, I was so excited that you said that you would be here today.
Well, since I listened to all sorts of podcasts, I thought, wouldn't it be great to invite
some of my favorite podcasters on an episode of the dash and that's where you come in.
I have a special shout out to my own podcast family.
I've gotten such a great response for guests to be here on the dash.
So Marty, that means you're part of my podcast family.
Yay.
All right.
I always say when I am listening to your podcast, I feel like I'm in the room with you.
I told you before we started recording that I work in the yard, I'm working around the
house and I really do feel like you and Effie are just having just a conversation together
and you really, really pull me into that.
So that's amazing.
That's why I like your podcast so much.
Oh, thank you so much for saying that.
Do you know the amount of people that have said that to us that they feel like, yeah,
we're just having a cup of coffee and they're in the room with us.
It's really, really lovely to hear because it doesn't feel forced then.
And sometimes we, I mean, we never feel like we're forcing the conversation because we've
known each other for so long and we know each other so well.
So it's good that it comes across like that, I think, in the podcast.
Well I'm glad you brought that up because that was one of the questions I had for you
today.
How did you and Effie meet?
So we actually met when we were pregnant.
As your listeners will know, our podcast is recorded in Edinburgh, but as your listeners
will know by my accent, I'm not actually Scottish.
I moved over to Scotland from Australia in 2006.
So when I got pregnant in 2011, I didn't really have any friends that were mothers.
A lot of the friends I had were still going out.
And so yeah, I met Effie out of the blue and we both didn't really have any friends that
were pregnant or like had had children.
And so we became really close friends really, really quickly.
Wow.
Yeah.
And we've sort of just been really great friends since then.
And you know, we both had the child that would be crying in the park or in the coffee shop
and we'd both have to leave because it was really loud, you know.
So we had all like the new mom struggles, I think.
And there's no manual for that.
No.
Do what you gotta do.
Yeah.
Well, that's awesome.
So what about the fact that one, you're going to start a podcast and why True Crime?
We didn't really know that we both had a fascination with True Crime, really.
I mean, I like everyone else, I think, that has a fascination with True Crime, found my
interest in True Crime through like Stephen King, like lots of horror things and things
like that when I was younger and just, you know, having a slight interest.
But then I really found it through the serial podcast, which I think everyone has now listened
to.
Yes.
And then we both actually sent it to Effie actually during lockdown.
So lockdown was sort of when we started.
But we had both sort of like messaged each other about specific things.
You know, you read something in the paper and you'd be like, Oh my God, how's that story
about that woman that was, you know, whatever had happened.
And she would send me really random, she started sending me like really random things, you
know, like about something happening in Russia or like a man's foot was found here.
And she'd just send me all these messages all the time back and forth.
And I'd be like, Oh my God, that's amazing.
Have you heard about this one?
What about this one?
And I really started getting into podcasting around that time.
So she'd be sending me all the weird articles and I'd be sending her all the podcast recommendations.
You've got to go listen to this podcast.
It's amazing.
And then just, yeah, really in lockdown, we started to talk about it.
And because I'm such a massive podcast addict, I've got so many podcasts on my list that
I said to her, why don't we just give it a go and you know, see what happens.
And to be honest, she was not very keen in the beginning.
She really didn't want people to be listening to her, to her voice.
She wasn't happy with her voice.
And you know, she didn't really feel confident with anything like that.
She doesn't do a lot of social media or anything like that.
Whereas my day job is in digital marketing.
So I'm quite comfortable, you know, speaking to people doing an Instagram live and I knew
nothing about podcasting myself.
We just sort of thought, you know what, we'll just give it a go.
We won't really tell anyone about it.
We'll just tell you what happens.
You won't tell anybody?
No.
That was one of my questions too.
Why don't you tell people that you have a podcast?
I mean, well, we do now.
Oh, okay.
I got you.
Yeah.
At the beginning, it was very uncomfortable listening back because as you know, everyone
that does a podcast, I'm sure you feel the same listening back and trying to edit yourself
is horrendous.
Yes.
Listening to your voice, listening to how many times you say, um, I say, um, so much
now.
I'm going to say that at the beginning because everyone's going to pick up on that for the
rest of the conversation.
Be like, Oh my God.
The cool thing is I can edit that out.
And my big word that I say all the time is so you don't hear that in my podcast because
I edit it out.
But when we're talking today, you'll probably hear it listeners.
You probably will not.
Yeah.
But I mean, I dunno, we just, we weren't that comfortable in the beginning.
And I think as time has gone on, I'm quite comfortable talking about it now.
She's way more comfortable talking about it now.
And like, I even bring it up at networking events and mentioned to people.
You should have you seen an increase in your listener base?
We have a little bit.
Yeah.
It's like the word starting to come out.
I think it's just such a slow burn with podcasting as well.
And two years we're actually at the point where we're meeting people that listen to
the podcasts that don't know us, which is unbelievable.
That feels unbelievable to me that like we're meeting people in Edinburgh that have listened
to our podcasts and like know who we are now.
That's cool.
I had somebody at work come to me in case you listeners don't know I'm actually a teacher
in real life.
And I had a student come to me about two weeks ago and he out of the blue just said, my mom
listens to you and loves your podcast.
I thought that was really cool.
Oh my God.
That's amazing.
So we're getting there a little by little, but there are so many, so many different choices
out there.
You've got the professional networking podcasts and then you've got hundreds and probably
hundreds of thousands of podcasts to choose from.
Yeah.
It's all you can ask for, isn't it?
Well, all you can ask for is for anyone to listen, to be fair.
So what does your family think of you doing a true crime podcast?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
Do you know, I've not really thought about that.
And so both of my parents have passed away now, but my mother died when I was quite young,
but she always sort of had, I think, I feel sad because I think she would have really
been the person on it.
Do you know what I mean?
She would have been calling me and saying, oh, when's the next episode?
So she really had a thing about true crime and she was always really fascinated with
that stuff.
And I don't know how popular, not popular, but like, I don't know how much you know about
the Lindsay Chamberlain thing with the Dingo and the Zaria Chamberlain.
Oh yes.
Now I have not heard that in a long time.
I absolutely know the story that you're talking about.
So she followed that.
Yes.
Well, she was really into it.
And in Australia, I don't know if many people went over there, but the newspapers were really
at Lindsay Chamberlain saying she's a baby murderer.
She's killed her own baby.
Yes.
You know, all of this because she didn't show emotion and you know, she was really stigmatized
by all the press in Australia and I think the UK.
And my mother was always like, she hasn't done it.
I don't know why they're saying that.
There's no way she's killed that baby.
You know, she went on and on about it for years.
And then when it was proven that she didn't kill the baby, you know, it was such a big
thing.
So I think my mother would have really, really loved this whole true crime thing that's happened
in the last.
I mean, it's always true crime has always been around, but the love of true crime and
the obsession people have with true crime.
Yes.
It's come to surface.
Yeah.
So I think she would have loved it.
But I mean, I do have, I've got six sisters, so I'm the youngest of seven.
Wow.
Do they listen to it?
They don't all listen.
No.
They don't listen to it.
The oldest messages me all the time and says, Oh my God, I loved that episode about whatever,
whatever.
But she's really the only one that really gets into it.
I think some of them, because they're older as well, they don't really get the whole podcasting
thing.
It's not really their thing.
Right.
But yeah, I mean, she loves it.
So do you listen to any other podcasts besides true crime?
You had mentioned you've got a ton there in your library.
Yeah.
So I listen to, I do listen to a lot of marketing ones because I'm a digital marketer in my
proper job.
I do listen to a lot of comedy podcasts.
There's a lot of British comedians who do comedy podcasts and like travel podcasts.
I listen to a few parenting podcasts that are like comedy ones, but I actually listen
to frugal friends as well, which is about money.
Oh, wow.
And I listen to another one.
I think there's about three that I listen to about money, but yeah, I mean, 90% of them
are true crime to be fair.
You know?
Yes.
And I mentioned I listen to the true crime when my husband's not at home because he never
really mentions.
I don't even know if he listens.
He's listened to a few, but I don't know if he listens to all of my episodes.
Yeah.
Husbands are a hard audience, I think.
I always have to say to my husband, because even though we're only bringing them out once
a month, I still have to say, have you listened to the podcast?
It's out.
You know it's out.
And we do talk about him a little bit.
So we kind of forget.
I kind of forget that I've mentioned him until he comes back and he's like, you know how
I said that.
So what do you find most challenging about producing your podcast?
Yeah, I think for us, I did find the whole editing and the whole tech part quite draining,
really.
We do have a podcast editor.
Hi Erin.
She's amazing.
I think you just posted her on social media, didn't you?
Yes.
She is amazing.
And she's been so brilliant for us.
That's like been a game changer because just the time that takes for me to fiddle around
when I don't really know what I'm doing still.
I just don't have the time to devote to it.
But yeah, I think for us as well, it's just scheduling our time.
And like, as you know, Effie couldn't be here today.
So I think we would do a lot more.
I would be keen to do a lot more, potentially do a lot more with the podcast, but it's just
the time.
What topic are you and Effie more drawn to as far as the genre, as far as true crime?
Is it early era, solved, unsolved, missing?
Do you have a specific topic that you guys like to talk about or you're just drawn to?
We kind of, we do tend to go towards cold cases a lot without realizing that we've done
a cold case.
So like, we think we're talking about it the other day and we're like probably about 70
percent of the cases that we do are cold cases, which is very unsatisfying when you're listening
to a podcast and there's no answer at the end.
I mean, I get it.
But yeah, we do really love, we love a mystery like the Summertime Man was such a big mystery
for so many years in Australia and it's been solved now.
Oh, it has?
Yeah.
And that was slightly disappointing.
I found out who he was.
He wasn't a spy.
He was just a guy that was, I can't remember what job he did, but it was very unsatisfying.
He wasn't a spy.
He wasn't a ballerina.
Was it solved when you did that episode?
Because I heard that one.
No.
That's amazing.
It is amazing.
Oh, I need to go look that up.
Yeah.
It was very unsatisfying though, because there was such intrigue with it, you know, with
the woman that lived close by and then he had the grandchildren, but then they weren't
his grandchildren.
And you know, I think it was genetics and they found hair that was trapped and they
were testing it with, you know, the new DNA that everyone can do.
Yeah.
Mystery.
We both love a mystery.
Effie really likes the historical stuff, like really historical.
I'm not so keen.
I like things from the 70s and up.
That's my, you know, I love all that.
I love a serial killer.
Not in, you know, not in that way, but I love that.
You know, that really intrigues me the whole story about serial killers and like how they
found them and you know, like now there's DNA and they've tracked this person down and
they've solved this and like they've solved the women in the dunes as well.
Did you hear about that?
Recently too, right?
Yeah.
So amazing because I think that was going to be on my list of storylines to talk about,
but what I truly love, especially on the dash, I really find episodes where DNA plays a big
part and you know, by the time I'm telling my storyline, usually it's solved.
So I try to bring a lighter effect of the genre.
So when I'm talking to guests like you, or even when I'm not, when I'm just talking by
myself, I always try to find something where DNA really plays a big part.
So yeah, I mean, thank goodness for the DNA.
Look at how far science has come.
I know.
I mean, that was crazy, that story as well with the whole Jaws thing and they thought
she was an extra in Jaws.
Was she?
No, I don't know.
I don't know if they actually know if it was still, I think it is still her.
Okay.
I really want it to be because there was the whole thing with Stephen King's son as well.
Did you hear about that?
I did not hear about that.
So he was really obsessed with it.
He went to see Jaws at like a matinee, you know, whatever 30th anniversary or whatever.
And he really honed in on this woman and he'd read the article about this woman and he was
like trying to solve it and he got really obsessed with it.
And I love that it was Stephen King's son.
How amazing is that?
That is awesome.
There's another podcast I was just telling my sister Beth about.
Chris Lambert is the person who has your own backyard.
I've heard of that.
Definitely highly recommend that one for you.
He saw a billboard as he went to work every day and it was a billboard of a missing girl
and it was up there for decades.
He remembers as a child that that billboard was there.
He started a podcast on that.
He wasn't obsessed with it.
He was like, you know what, somebody needs to do something.
And he did.
It's a great podcast.
I highly recommend that.
I'm adding that to my list now.
I'm responsible for adding another True Crime podcast to my list.
I have heard of that though.
That's really familiar.
Let's talk about your listener base because you have said that you have a lot of Canadian
and US listeners.
Yes, that's crazy.
Isn't it?
I mean, it's absolutely fantastic.
Thank you for listening to us.
We are so impressed.
We don't get messages a lot, but we have had like quite a few messages from people in the
US.
The first time we got it, I remember messaging Effie, sending her a voice note and going,
oh my God, someone in America is listening to us and they like us.
I love it when the heat map turns red.
That means that a lot of people are starting to listen and I have a big heat map in the
UK.
How amazing is that?
It's wonderful.
So thank you listeners from all around the world.
We love that.
Yeah.
One of the things that Beth and I said, my sister, was we just wanted to take over North
America and we did it.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Have you, Marty, or would you ever stay in a haunted hotel or castle?
No, no.
Why not?
You know what?
I, so people find this really strange with me.
Not so much Effie because Effie's a bit braver than me, I think.
She'd do it.
Yeah, she would do it.
I am absolutely terrified of all that stuff.
I will not.
I've never seen Poltergeist.
I cannot watch it.
That clarifies me.
No, I can't watch it.
We actually, I grew up across the road from a cemetery when I was little and that never
bothered me.
That was fine.
And our, so we live in a flat in the middle of Edinburgh, but our back fence actually
backs onto a cemetery.
So if I look out the window in the lounge room, I'm looking at, I can look at the cemetery
and that doesn't bother me.
That's fine.
But I can't, I just, I can't, I can't do it.
I can't watch anything scary.
I can't even watch an ad for something scary.
My husband's the opposite.
All of that, he's got an explanation.
So every time I hear a story on a podcast, I come and tell him the story and go, isn't
that amazing?
What do you think about that?
And what's your explanation for that?
And he's always got an explanation.
He just doesn't, I think because I believe in that stuff.
Yes, I 100% believe in that.
Yeah.
I know that he has respect, but I have respect for the dead.
I don't want to do, we grew up Catholic, very Catholic.
So did I.
Yeah.
See, so you're going to understand this.
I bet you were told the same thing.
We were told it never to touch a Ouija board.
Never don't go near it.
Yes.
It's a Catholic thing, isn't it?
I think so.
And we had a Ouija board in our house and it was around that time that, what was that
movie with Linda Blair?
Oh, The Exorcist.
I can't watch that either.
Nope.
I sure can't.
So my dad ended up painting on the back of the Ouija board.
And I believe Beth told me a story in one of our podcasts about that and she had to
get rid of it.
My dad was an artist and he has a ton of paintings that he left us.
So he had painted something on the Ouija board and Beth had to get rid of it.
What did he paint on it?
I don't think it was necessarily what he painted.
He always did a lot of nature scenes, woods and meadows and things like that.
I don't think it had anything to do with the painting itself.
I think it had to do with something with the Ouija board.
No, I can't believe you had one in the house.
Yeah, I do.
I believe in that stuff and so I'm going to keep a healthy distance away.
Yeah.
We were asked to go and stay in a castle for a podcast.
So another True Crime podcast and another Scottish Ghostly Story podcast that I listened
to because it's not too scary, but they asked us to go and stay, both of us.
And Effie was kind of for it.
And I said, you know what, you can go and do that by yourself because I've been on like
ghost tours.
I can do that.
I'm not staying in any castles.
Scotland is creepy enough as it is in certain places without staying somewhere that is meant
to be haunted and it's overnight.
It was like 2 in the morning to sit.
No, no, I can't even think about it.
I just couldn't do it.
It freaks me out.
It freaks me out so much.
It's not something that I could ever do.
I'm interested in it.
I'm fascinated with it.
I'm fascinated with stories of things that happen.
And I love, there's lots of podcasts where I listen and there's lovely stories about,
you know, their parent left them a message.
And I believe in all that sort of stuff.
I can listen to that.
Anything horror.
No, I'm not staying anywhere overnight.
I just, I actually said to them, do you know what, if you are recording this for a podcast,
it's just going to be me screaming the whole night.
It's going to be four hours of me screaming and going, I don't like this.
I don't like this.
And you're going to have so much editing.
It's just not worth me being there.
I'm not coming.
It's a little different when we're telling stories on a podcast versus being there and
being in it.
Yeah, I totally get it.
I'm with you on that.
Yeah.
Would you do it?
Would you stay there?
Absolutely not.
Like no hesitation.
Oh, good.
Okay.
No, because I have a very vivid imagination and like there are sometimes, no joke, when
I'm sleeping, I remember a lot of my dreams.
Sometimes I will myself to continue sleeping because I want to finish my dream.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
To talk about it is one thing, but to be there in it, no, I think my imagination, I'd be
there with you screaming.
And I mean, the castles in Scotland are so scary.
I love Scottish castles, right?
Don't get me wrong.
Cause in Australia, there's nothing.
It's just grass.
There's like lots of land.
There's no castles.
There's nothing old.
It's not interesting, right?
So when you come here, I was like, there's a cast and especially in Scotland, like Scotland
is a maze.
It's an amazing place to live.
There's so much history.
Yes.
There's so much horribleness that happens here in like the old town and you know, sure.
It's just so many stories and the castles all have stories and they're all stunning.
And I've been to so many castles.
I've been to so many ruined castles and don't get me wrong.
I always put, I'm always the one in the audience that puts my hand up when you do a tour and
says, are there any ghosts here?
Do you have any stories about ghosts?
I love hearing that, but I don't want to be there and see them at one o'clock in the morning.
No, thank you very much.
I'll read the book.
I'll hear the story.
I'm not there to experience it.
Goodbye.
Oh, there's your fine line.
We're going to draw in the sand right there.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thanks so much, Marty, for hanging in there with me.
I appreciate the little question answer session.
For our listeners, be sure to check Marty and Effie out on Instagram at mums mysteries
and murder.
You can also email them at mums mystery and murder at gmail.com.
Is there anything else that you would like to add before we dash into my short story?
I don't think so.
I should say actually, while I've got the opportunity about the pod that true crimes
not for everyone.
We understand that.
Like we get that you either love true crime, you hate true crime and you're not interested.
True.
But we have been told that our podcast is a good gateway into true crime, which was
very interesting.
A few people have said it.
I think because we don't cover really graphic crimes and we don't really go into gruesome
details.
We don't really do like a body count.
Do you know what I mean?
We don't do serial killers, although we have just done Ivan Malat and that was probably
the most gruesome episode we've done.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, I think if anyone's listening to your podcast, obviously they're into true crime.
So that, you know, but it's sort of not as and I mean, I don't think yours is particularly
gruesome.
Do you know what I mean?
We don't dwell on the details, do we?
No, I don't like to dwell on the details.
First of all, I'm trying to respect the victim, trying to respect the family, the survivors
in it.
So that's not really my take on that as well.
There are some times where I feel like I have to give a little bit more details, but I'm
still as diplomatically correct as I can be.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that goes along the lines of having a coffee or a tea in the living room with you.
So yeah, just having a regular conversation.
That's amazing.
That's a lovely feel.
Yeah.
Well, I don't know how much traveling you have done over time.
Me personally, I love to travel.
I have a passport that needs a couple of stamps in it.
Look, I was supposed to go on a trip and then COVID hit and then I had to cancel that and
I have not had the opportunity to use my passport.
Oh, I told my husband we need to do that this year.
So we'll probably end up doing that.
Come to Scotland.
I know some good castles.
I'll come to Scotland.
I don't know if you'll look at the castles, but no, I won't.
Not at nighttime.
We won't do nighttime.
Have you ever been to Disney World?
No.
Do you know what?
I've never been to any part of America.
Well, I haven't been to Scotland.
So there you go.
Or Australia.
Yeah, we're even.
Australia is very far.
Australia is a very big commitment.
I have family there.
Oh, amazing.
I really need to go visit because here's the thing.
I watched the show called My Kitchen Rules.
Ah, yes.
What I have noticed because I pay attention to details in the background and everything,
I have really learned which areas are more populated.
Yeah, I'm not missing the spiders, I have to say.
She says looking up at the ceiling because there was a big spider in here the other day.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
My cousin, she was driving to work one morning and a tarantula plopped down into her lap
while she's driving in her car.
And I think she was in Tasmania.
Oh, that is horrific.
I know, right?
Okay, so you have not been to Disney.
No.
I took my kids there once and I'm going to say once was enough for me.
I mean, it's great, but I have a Six Flags Park near me as well and we've done all that.
So.
Ah, yes.
Do you know, I know about Six Flags just from listening to podcasts.
Really?
Who've told stories about Six Flags.
Like, not good stories.
Like they've told theme park stories.
People falling off roller coasters.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm obsessed with that stuff.
Obsessed.
I don't know if I'd like to listen to that, but who knows?
Love it.
But see, I don't go to any of these places and I don't go on rides.
I'm such a baby.
I've discovered during your podcast, I am such a baby.
That's okay.
I'm fine with that.
I used to live for the thrill, but I can't do it anymore.
There's just a certain threshold that you just can't get on any rides.
You're going to get nauseous.
And then of course you hear about all these people being flinged off.
No thank you.
Right now is that time of year.
I don't know if you guys have this, but we have a lot of county fairs and it's like a
pop-up fair.
So they're everywhere right now.
It's just that time of year.
Okay.
But we're going to talk about Disney World today.
I am so excited.
I did not know you were going to tell me a story about this.
So we're going to talk about Susan Gervais.
And I'm going to say she's got a French name.
So I had to go look this up and it's like Gervais.
I don't know if I can say Gervais the whole time.
Is that like Ricky Gervais?
Who's Ricky Gervais?
He's a UK comedian and he hosted the Oscars and things a few times and he was really offensive
to everyone, which was brilliant.
Oh, you need to go look him up.
He's fantastic.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, Susan was kidnapped at the age of four under the guise that she was going to take
a trip to Disney World.
Okay.
I'm going to back up just a little bit and talk about Susan's mom for just a moment.
Susan's given name was Susan Preece and she was born in Pontefract, West Yorkshire, England
in 1965 to a single mother.
And she also had six other siblings who were unfortunately, Marty, they were all in and
out of foster care.
Oh, that's so sad, isn't it?
In 1969, when Susan was just four years old, her mother had befriended a couple from Scotland.
Yay!
Look, when I put this story together, I had no intentions of making it about Scotland
or England or anything like that.
I just came across the story and then here we are talking about it.
So there you go.
Oh, no way.
Susan's mother had befriended a couple from Scotland who had two boys of their own and
they were very close to the same age as Susan.
So kind of like you and Effie, you guys got together, you had something in common when
you became friends.
Susan befriended this couple and they started hanging out quite a bit together.
The two families lived in a, you may know this, I don't know the term, it's a visaraj,
sort of like a campground.
Oh, so they like travellers?
Yes.
Yeah, okay.
I haven't heard the term visaraj, but I think I know what you mean.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was quite common.
There was like a lot of people that did that back at that.
Yeah.
So this family was, they were travellers.
Okay.
Oh, this is interesting.
I'm loving this.
Okay.
So I did look at some pictures.
There were some single wide trailers and I mean, we have nice trailer parks around here
and then some not so nice, but it's just a combination.
I wouldn't say that it's anything that you can pull on the back of your vehicle or anything
like that.
Like they're sets, stationary, but you can move them at any time.
Yeah.
Okay.
So like movie sets, that's what it makes me think of.
Oh, there you go.
You and your naps just have movie sets and they have the little, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the two families bonded very quickly and became fast friends.
So imagine how delighted Susan's mother was when the couple offered to take Susan on a
two week vacation to Disney World in Orlando, Florida.
Would you not be suspicious of that though?
I don't know if I would or not.
And here's why.
I was a single mother for virtually, I'm going to say 16 years of my life.
So you just needed a break.
Take them away.
Bring them back when you want.
Well, the three of us were very tight.
Shelby, Corey and me, I feel like we were very tight and we did a lot together, but
there was a family that my son, Corey went to all the time.
He had the best friend that he met when he was in third grade and he spent a lot of time
at his friend's house.
I've sent him on vacations with them before.
I guess in that aspect, when you become very close friends with different people, there's
that trust level, so I don't know if I would find that suspicious.
Would you let them go to another country?
Because that is a big, do you know what I mean?
If you're in the UK and someone's offering to take you to America, that is a big holiday.
It's not like if someone's offering to take you to Spain where it's like two hours on
a plane here.
It's not like a big deal.
Do you know what I mean?
Like Europe's not a big deal from the UK, but America.
Rub it in, why don't you?
It's going to take me 16 hours.
It's not bad, it's not bad.
We go there for a Friday night and come back.
No, we don't do that.
But yeah, I feel like that is a big deal to take your kid to America.
Yeah, it's just trusting.
Yeah, because I would totally send my son, Cory.
Cory, if you're listening to this, I would totally send you with your best friend to
a different country.
No.
But then again, this was in the 1960s.
I see what you're saying and I understand that concept.
I'm very untrusting of people, I think, and also, we're never going to get to the end
of this.
I do like to ask a lot of questions.
I will apologize in advance.
Effie knows about this and she never has the answer whenever I ask her these questions
because they're always random.
But if you're in the traveling community, you don't have a lot of money.
So how do you have the money to take someone else's kid on holiday?
On a big holiday, that is a big holiday.
That is a big holiday.
Yeah.
Look, I'm like Effie.
I don't have an answer for you.
It just feels at home.
I just feel like this is the normal podcast.
Oh my gosh.
All right.
Well, guess what?
Susan agreed.
She steadfastly said, sure, I would love for you to take Susan.
What a great opportunity.
So she said yes.
She dug out Susan's birth certificate that she needed to travel.
She handed it over and the rest is all we know for 50 years.
No.
Oh, is that it?
That's the end.
That's the end of the podcast.
Thanks for listening.
That's the end.
We are at 42 minutes recording and we're done.
Quickest research ever.
All right.
During that era in the 1970s, minors did not need a passport.
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
That's really interesting, isn't it?
It is.
See how times have changed.
All they needed at the time was parental permission slip to travel with others who were not a
parent plus their birth certificate.
So this is where her mother pulled out the birth certificate, gave it to the couple and
off they went.
The couple had both of those documents with them and once Susan was in their charge, they
added her name to their own passport paperwork because they had a passport and off they went
to the United States.
Okay.
This is crazy.
How long had they known them for?
I'm not really sure.
They became fast friends.
Probably a couple months at least.
No.
I know.
It's crazy.
This is giving me anxiety.
I never want to do that.
Okay.
So obviously we know that Susan did not go to Disney World.
They went to Canada instead.
I mean that's better than Disney World in my opinion.
Oh yeah, absolutely it is.
And then also they bounced here and there let's say because you had mentioned where
did they get this money from?
Not only Canada, they also went to Austria and then Australia.
Oh my God.
This is an amazing trick.
Yeah, it is.
Most of the articles that I read, Susan kept referring to herself as a traveling family,
but her name was quickly changed to Susan Gervais.
Okay.
So unless she got older, her new parents had told her that she had been adopted.
How did she forget her parents though?
I suppose if you're four and you're told something enough, you don't remember a lot.
Like I don't remember anything from when I was four I don't think.
Four years old, I'm thinking you're going to start remembering a little bit, but if
you're told enough, the memories do fade.
Yeah.
I don't know if any listeners know if there's a threshold as far as memories.
We would love to hear that.
Yeah.
It's so interesting, wouldn't it?
What age you can remember from or what's the average age people can remember things from?
Tell us, tell us.
Well Susan never questioned her new parents.
In fact, she had a very good upbringing.
She mentioned more than once that she was spoiled rotten and she had a very content
childhood.
She just loved her childhood.
I mean, she's going on holiday everywhere though, isn't she?
So I mean, who wouldn't?
Who wouldn't love that?
In hindsight, Susan believes that her adoptive parents always wanted a girl because I had
mentioned they had boys.
Yeah.
Okay.
But she never had the desire to search out her biological family.
She had been told she was adopted now, but she never had the desire to look to see if
she could find them.
And she did travel the world with the family that she knew and was very happy growing up.
I wonder if the boys ever said anything.
Do you know what I mean?
I wonder what the boys were told from the parents and if they ever had a conversation
with her about, do you know what I mean?
Do you remember your parents or?
That's a great question.
I'm so good at the questions.
And I'm obviously not so good at the answers because again, wow, never thought of that.
Yeah.
I mean, there's no way to find that out.
So while I was researching, every picture that I saw of Susan shows a genuine smile
and she really did seem very happy.
Let's talk about the 1980s.
So this would be, I'm going to say Susan's probably a teenager by now.
Wow.
Around 1981, Susan had traveled from Australia to New Zealand.
Remember, I told you she bounced around different countries.
Yeah.
Okay.
And it would be easy to hide in New Zealand from America.
Would it now?
Well, I think it would be because it's so far removed.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they're not, even Australia is like a bigger deal, but New Zealand's like, it's
not a small country, but like it would be an easy place to hide from America all the
way to there.
I think.
True.
Because it truly is on the other side of the world.
It's just a quieter place and it's just, I don't know.
I think it'd be a good place to hide.
People wouldn't think to look there.
Yes.
We're saying like it's hide and seek.
Go hide in New Zealand.
At the time, Susan did not need a passport to enter New Zealand and this is 1981.
Okay.
And she would need one to travel back to Australia.
Okay.
Susan couldn't get the paperwork that she needed to reenter Australia because this is
when her adoptive father admitted to her that she had been stolen.
Oh no.
Isn't that something?
Oh my God.
So she was 18 then.
She was probably about 16 years old.
Yeah.
Okay.
And do we know what brought this on?
You're probably about to tell me.
I'm just excited.
I don't know, Marge.
I don't know.
I don't know, Marty.
I wrote this script about four months ago.
So I'm going to be as surprised as you.
All right.
It took Susan three years to get the paperwork necessary to get back to Australia.
So she would have definitely been an adult by now.
Oh my God.
She resides in Australia today.
What?
I mentioned that she did not have much in findings on her biological family.
She didn't have that desire.
Yeah.
Okay.
Or so because she had grown up with the name Gervais and her parents weren't around to
give her information on her birth name.
Yeah.
Okay.
But what about like, you know, how the father, so the father admitted when she was a teenager.
Yeah.
Why wouldn't you then be like outraged and be like seeking out your real parents?
That's very strange.
It is because she had a good upbringing, unfortunately with the wrong family, of course, but there
are people out there that don't have the desire to ever know.
Now there's a difference of being told, hey, you've been adopted versus yeah, you were
really stolen.
Yeah.
I understand the adoption thing.
Like I'm sure there's loads of people and I don't know enough about it, but I understand,
you know, how some people would not want to find their birth mother.
I can understand that, but to be stolen and then not even like her poor parents.
I agree.
That's the thing is there's just not a lot of, hey, how did the parents deal with this?
I never want to be put in that situation of having a child go missing.
My heart goes out to anybody that does.
Unless you've been in that, I can't even imagine how a parent could feel when their child disappears
and just never returns, but it happens a lot, you know?
Yeah.
Did they think she was dead?
Do you know what I mean?
Because the whole family disappeared as well, can you imagine that?
The whole family's gone.
You just think, well, they've just taken her.
Like you wouldn't think she was killed by a lunatic or something.
Right.
I guess with them knowing the family, me personally, I would probably think, well, hopefully she's
being treated well and things like that.
There's so many different what ifs.
Yeah.
I wonder if they went searching for her then.
They must have gone searching for her.
I'm sure.
That's an impossible search though, isn't it?
Australia is so far.
Maybe I put these in my notes.
I'm not sure.
We'll see.
Yeah, sorry.
I have so many questions all the time.
It's okay.
I love that.
I get very involved.
We're going to move to 2022, so just a couple of years ago.
Oh my God.
Sorry.
I'm excited.
Cut from my hand.
Sorry.
As life goes, we meet friends along the way and Susan became acquainted with someone who
was also adopted.
This new friend asked Susan if curiosity had ever gotten the better of her, so we just
talked about that.
This is when Susan began thinking about it.
I believe the question was phrased more like, oh, Marty, you're going to love this.
What do you think your family in the UK is feeling right now?
Thinking that you vanished without a trace.
That's really when Susan began thinking about it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I told you we'd learn this together.
Unfortunately, Susan could not get any immediate answers because her adoptive mother had died
of multiple sclerosis when Susan was seven and her adoptive dad passed away when she
was 21.
Susan eventually talked with her husband about her new desire to be nearer to her true family.
Of course, he completely supported Susan in this quest and the family posted an appeal
on the Nottingley and Fairy Bridge Community Facebook page that covered Pontefract, England,
the town where Susan had been kidnapped from back in 1969.
I don't know if you know those areas, but that's where they posted.
I know Pontefract, but I don't know the other.
Fairy Bridge Community.
Yeah, how cute does that sound?
I know, right?
I bet there's some good kick-ass castles in Fairy Bridge, I'm telling you.
Oh goodness.
All right, now get this.
Susan and her husband received a response within 30 to 90 minutes, depending on the
article that I read.
Oh my God.
She found out her true identity within 30 to 90 minutes.
Oh my God.
What are the chances?
And the time difference, I know this is small, the time difference between Australia and
England, it would have been day and night.
Like they would have posted that at night and it would have been the middle of the morning.
Do you know what I mean?
Oh my God, these stories.
Unbelievable.
I'm actually sitting closer to the laptop because I can't handle this.
I need to know all the things.
Susan quickly got in touch with the people that had contacted her and she flew out to
the UK to reunite with four of her six siblings on her 57th birthday.
Oh my God.
And was this in 2022?
It was.
Oh my God.
I can't handle this.
Are her parents still alive?
Okay, I'm glad you asked that question because I'm going to leave you hanging here for a
moment until Dennis stops barking.
No.
I can't handle this.
This is like X factor when they go and the person leaving is, and then they wait ages.
You're like, come on, just tell us.
Oh my God.
See why I love your podcast so much.
I love this, Marty.
I'm having such a great time with you.
I get so excited.
The problem is I get so invested in these stories.
That's why I have all the questions and all the things and then like once Effie's told
me the story, I have to go and look up everything to see what they look like, what else has
happened.
I just get too involved.
You will love it.
Susan's biological mom had passed away in 2015 and never knew what happened to her daughter.
Oh my God.
That's awful.
It is.
Why would you tell me that?
Because inquiring minds.
That was one of your questions, Marty.
Oh, I know, but I don't want that to be the answer.
What about her dad?
Is her dad still alive?
I don't know if her dad's still alive.
We'll get there.
Maybe.
Maybe it's not.
Maybe because it just said siblings.
Oh no.
But do know this, her mother spent her entire life looking for Susan.
Oh my God.
That's so sad.
I know.
Susan's siblings later said in an interview that they too had never given up looking for
her either.
Oh, why didn't they find her then?
Because she had the same, she had that surname.
Surely they could have tracked.
Oh, I don't know.
It's not their fault.
She was in New Zealand.
Yeah.
No one looks for you in New Zealand.
I'm angry.
Why did they go there?
This is an emotional roller coaster.
It truly is.
Like I'm starting to get tears in my eyes.
I'm like, oh gosh, usually I make my guests cry.
So now I'm crying here.
All right.
As far as why police did not conduct a full investigation, no one knows.
Susan, her two brothers and two sisters believe it may have had to do with the fact that the
children were in and out of foster care a lot.
Plus her mother had handed Susan over to that couple to take to Disney World.
There was never a police report and no paper trail to show that Susan had ever gone missing.
That I find surprising.
I don't find that surprising because the whole thing with, because maybe the kids were in
foster care and it was the seventies when again, policing wasn't at its finest.
And I feel like maybe because of the whole foster care issue and she had had, she had
technically handed the child over, the police just thought, well, do you know what?
It's another kid that would have ended up in care.
Let's not worry about it.
They've gone off with someone they know.
I feel like maybe that might've come into play a little bit.
I could be wrong.
I could be a hundred percent wrong.
No, I think you're right there because it's a stigma.
Yeah.
Unfortunately.
So they were probably thinking, okay, well, I mean, just like you said, Susan would have
ended up in foster care.
So she was with a, let's air quote, good family, right?
Yeah.
Well, Susan now resides in Australia and is a mother of three and a grandmother of four.
She and her husband operate fresh start missions, which is a charity that helps the less fortunate.
I love that.
I'll definitely add that to our show notes because I looked this up.
It's really an amazing organization based out of Australia.
Truly Marty, that's the story of Susan Gervais.
Originally Susan Preece.
Oh my God.
Do you know what?
I can't believe I've never heard that story.
I love that.
I can't believe that I've not heard this on, because I listened to a lot of Australian
podcasts as well and I can't believe I've never come across this story.
It's such an interesting, amazing story.
I can't believe that that's never come up.
Yeah.
I love that it's a happy ending.
Yeah.
That's why I do it because these are not the stories that are told.
Yeah.
So I'm here to tell them, me personally.
I love that.
Do you think there'll be a Netflix documentary in the next?
I feel like that's a Netflix documentary waiting to happen.
I don't know.
People honestly don't like to hear the happy endings like this sometimes, especially if
it's true crime.
Yeah.
Okay.
We have Hallmark channel out there that's always got the happy endings and this could
probably be on Hallmark.
It's a bit gritty for Hallmark though, isn't it?
That's true.
It's usually some woman who is all upset, has to go home for the holidays and meets
the man of her dreams there.
Yes, falls in love with the baker that owns the bakery that they have to save because
the bakery is about to close down.
And she's usually like a marketing person and she comes up with this amazing marketing
charity event and saves Christmas, but then she has to go home because something's happened.
And then should she stay with the hunk, with his small family in his small town or should
she go back to the city to her marketing job?
No, she goes to the airport, but then she rushes back at the last minute because it
snows and the plane's delayed and it saves Christmas.
And of course he's got a young child that's super cute from his last marriage or his wife
died.
That's what happens.
Oh, that's tragic.
I watch a lot of Christmas movies.
I even doubt the true crime.
It really does.
Okay.
Well, Marty, we're done.
That was the story of Susan Gervais.
I love that.
And if you don't think I'm going to go and Google that in about five minutes and find
out what she looks like, what her kids look like, check out the charity, check out that
fairy place.
I'm on it.
I'm on it like a carb on it.
Yeah.
I'm getting Effie on it.
Effie's going to love this story.
And she's also going to be like, I knew she was going to ask that question.
She's so annoying.
I'm glad I didn't do this case.
That's what she'll be thinking.
Effie, I would love to know if you had the answers this go around because I know I didn't
for some of these, but apparently some of my notes showed that I did have the answers.
It's just been a while since I've looked at the script.
So yeah.
All right, Marty, thank you so much for being with me today.
This was amazing.
Be sure to check out Marty and Effie on Instagram at Mums, Mysteries and Murder.
And I also found you guys on Apple, Spotify and Amazon Music.
So any final words?
Thank you so much for having me.
I absolutely love that story.
I cannot believe I have not heard it.
That's the first time I've actually sat that close to the laptop trying to get more information
quicker.
I'm so intrigued.
I can't believe that I've never heard that story.
So thank you so much.
I loved that.
It was such an amazing story.
I love that too.
Well, if you like this story as much as Marty, be sure to write in and let us know what you
think or let us know what you think of any of our other episodes.
Click on the links in our show notes to find out more about this podcast.
And if you are a true crime podcaster like Marty and want a chance to highlight your
own podcast, DM me in Instagram and talk to you soon.
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