G'day, g'day, g'day and welcome everyone. That's our resident scaredy cat Kate.
And that's the horror junkie Dominic. And you're listening to Shit N' Bricks.
A podcast where we talk shit about some scary stuff.
The sort of fear your asshole knows about. As always, subscribe, rate and review us.
And don't forget to follow us on social media at Shit N' Bricks podcast.
Alright drop your dacks, pop a squat and let's get into it.
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host for Dying to be Found miniseries.
I like to call the Dash, which is a collection of shorter true crime stories.
Like I told you on our social media, things are going to be a little different this season.
So I hope that you guys enjoy these little snippets.
And the cool thing is, is that I have lined up a great group of fellow podcasters this season to help me out.
And today I have Dominic and Kate from Shit N' Bricks.
Hi guys.
Hi.
Hello.
How are you today?
We're just so excited to be here, honestly.
I just can't stop smiling. I'm just so, this is our first, you know, we've done some little collabs and things like that,
but it's mostly just been through separate episodes.
This is the first time that we've done something where we are, you know, a part of another podcast and being recorded, which is so exciting.
Yeah, well, you guys are coming all the way from Australia.
And one of the things, Dom, I have talked with you a few times.
I don't know if you could tell, first of all, I feel like we're in a little time capsule here because you guys are in my future right now.
Yes.
And I'm in your past.
So do you think that's how they came up with that concept?
That's what I want to know.
It's our very own episode of Back to the Future or Back to the Past, whichever way you want to take it.
Yeah.
And there's a 16 hour difference.
So I stressed a little bit.
I just had to recheck my calendar and make sure that I am on cue as far as getting online with you guys.
So I'm glad that worked out today.
Yeah, no, it's it's only what, 10 o'clock in the morning for us.
So this is the best time of year to do the sort of time zone swap thing.
So good little tip for anyone listening is if you ever want to partner with Australia,
because we're on the arse end of the world, do it during your winter, our summer.
There you go. Yeah.
I actually have family there down in Tasmania.
A beautiful part of the country.
That's amazing.
Stunning.
Yeah. Well, before we dash into our story, I thought it would be cool to talk to you guys
and let our listeners know about your podcast and anything else that you want to share while we're talking here today.
I've laid out a mini interview for you guys.
And of course, I'm sure you will indulge me for a couple of minutes.
And if you guys are good to go, let's get started.
Let's get into it.
Yay. I'm so excited.
It's just so nice even hearing someone say shitty bricks.
Just having the best time ever.
And I'll tell you, too, that is one thing that Beth and I came to agreements on that we would not swear in our podcast.
And look at me now.
Oh, sorry.
That's actually a good note for us, because, yeah, occasionally I think we've gotten better.
I think at the start of our podcast, we would, you know, be dropping swear words here and there.
I think we've gotten better at it and just using them where it's sort of appropriate, I suppose, or in our stories.
But that's a handy tip.
But I mean, it kind of goes with the title of our podcast.
It does. It does.
And we're going to get into that in just a minute.
But before, I just wanted to ask you guys, how do you know each other and what made you two decide to start a podcast together?
It's a great question.
And I think people forget when they listen to our podcast that Kate and I are actually cousins. We're first cousins.
So my mum and her mum are sisters.
So we've known each other since birth.
And I don't know, Kate might want to correct me here, but Kate and I have always been the more drama showy showgirls of the family, that's for sure.
Absolutely.
And we've just been best friends for such a long time and during Covid, I think both of us were a bit creatively starved and disconnected from an audience.
We need people to witness us.
So I just reached out to Kate and I pitched her the Shitin' Bricks idea.
And I think it took her all of like five seconds to say, yes, let's do this.
We've got such a passion for film.
And I am especially big on horror and I may have indoctrinated Kate a bit early on in her life.
So, yeah, the rest is history.
Now we're what? Two, what, in our third year, second, third year?
Yeah, nearly coming into our third year, I think.
Wow, that's awesome.
Yeah. Well, good for you.
I love that. I have a tight knit family.
When I was growing up in Canada, I had cousins in Michigan that I would see and it was always me and my cousin, Joe.
So, Joe, if you're listening, I might be pulling you in on my own podcast because, you know, it's a family thing.
But that's so cool that you guys have grown up together and keep your interests the same.
It's really cool. I love that.
So how did you come up with your concept and what gives you guys inspiration behind your stories?
So the name of your show is called obviously Shitin' Bricks.
But how did you come up with that concept and everything that gives you inspiration?
Well, I think, I mean, Dominic was really the driving force behind this at the beginning.
You know, he was wanting to do something that was of interest to him.
And as he explained as well, we just needed to hear our own voices and to do something creative and just to get out of the COVID bubble, so to speak.
So we sort of got in touch and Dom always wanted to do something that was either based around horror films or something that scared people or the kind of true crime, but not quite.
And that sort of, you know, open platform to really find any stories.
And then once we came up with the title, so once we came up with Shitin' Bricks, which we felt like was quintessentially Australian, it's something that, you know, it's a phrase that we would use.
And once we came up with that, we're like, OK, now I think we're I think we kind of understand now.
So it's comedy. We can talk about whatever is scary.
We can talk about things that frighten us, frighten other people.
Yeah, that sort of theme, I suppose.
And that's how we came up with the concept. And then from then, it's just finding interesting stories.
Some of my favorite episodes that Dom has done, because we don't read each other's stories before we do them.
So we are each other's audience member, which I think helps as well.
So we will know usually what the topic is, but not often what the actual detail in the story is.
So when I get to learn things about Dominic's interests and then vice versa.
So I think we have a different type of storytelling.
We get to share that with each other.
So that's kind of the yeah, we just find what we enjoy talking about.
And that's the inspiration behind some of our stories.
The episodes that I've heard you tell us that, OK, this is what I'm going to be talking about next week.
But is that as far as that goes? You guys don't give each other any more insights?
Yeah, I love it. That's pretty much it.
So if we and do you know what, as well, sometimes we change that.
So we'll say, oh, I might do a story about this next week.
And then, yeah, occasionally we'll get to that week and we'll have to either fit something in or switch an episode around,
because we've just found something else that interests us.
But that's it. That's pretty much the heads up.
We say, yeah, we're going to be talking about space next week.
That's it. We don't know what that means.
We don't know what that entails.
It's just that's what we feel like doing.
Not until you research it.
Exactly right. Yeah, exactly right.
Our episodes. So.
Well, that actually leads to a great question, because I was going to ask you,
how would you describe your communication style?
Yeah, it's such a great question.
I'm glad that you included it.
And it was something that Kate and I talked about very, very early on when we were coming up with or developing the concept for Shit in Bricks was in the market.
And I'm sure a lot of your listeners know there's already a lot of true crime podcasts out there.
And almost every story, at least that's somewhat historical, has already been covered.
Yes. And a gap that I really noticed in the market was just it was that that same thing that Red Handed does,
that's very quintessentially British and all of their their followers really loved the fact that they were maybe repeating the same stories that have been already told.
But they were doing it from that perspective of a British sort of voice.
And Kate and I, because we've grown up together and we understand maybe comedy and humor,
maybe a little bit more than your average Joe Blow, just because of our history and education.
We really wanted to make sure that at the heart of everything that we did at Shit in Bricks was really leaning into that quintessential Australian borderline,
Bogan voice and storytelling and really introduce that to a whole audience that probably has never heard it before.
And at our family get togethers, it is just it is joke after joke after joke.
We are just howling at one another constantly.
And there's just never dead silence.
So I think we try to keep things very light, very casual.
We're often talking about very distressing, very serious things.
Yes. And we've obviously been very inspired by other podcasts that do the same thing where we deal with our anxiety and our mental health through laughter.
That's something Kate and I share very much.
So we want to always be respectful, but we also just don't want to take ourselves too seriously.
So, yeah. And you guys do a really good job with that.
I think there is definitely a lot of respect there.
And that's what my own podcast is really about is trying to be as respectful as possible because there are still living survivors.
And you just have to take all that into consideration.
But the way you guys come across with your humor is tasteful.
And I get a good chuckle when I'm driving down the road listening to you guys.
So whatever you're doing, it works.
That's good. And I think, do you know what?
It took us a little while, the first few episodes, if anybody goes back and listens to our first maybe 10 episodes, we were really trying to find that balance.
And that did take us a little bit because obviously Dominic and I have our own values and beliefs and our opinions on certain topics and controversial topics or things that are in the media at the time or whatever the case may be.
So it was really interesting finding that balance.
But then once we hit sort of episode 20, 30, we just went, do you know what?
This is us and this is how our listeners know us now.
So if people take offense and we're making a joke or something, they should know by now if they've listened from the start, our intention is right.
You know, our intention is around this is who we are and this is how we cope or this is how we talk about this situation.
So, yeah, it was a really difficult balance in the beginning because we were just tripping each other up almost at the start, just sort of going, oh, God,
we're talking about this horrible topic.
You know, you think of any true crime stories and the terrible things that happen to the victims.
And then we I know I was almost afraid to make any jokes or anything at the start because I didn't want to offend anybody.
Or but then when we realized, well, hang on a second, we're not doing it because you want to offend someone.
That's not never where we're coming from.
So it was it was a really interesting topic to discuss at the beginning.
So those, yeah, if I went back, I haven't listened to the first episodes that we've done.
Or I'm not sure, Deb, if you've listened to some of the first episodes that you've done in retrospect, but they change.
They really change quickly. So it's there.
That was an interesting, interesting conversation at the start.
That was actually one of my questions I had for you, too, was, do you listen to your own episodes?
So, Kate, you don't.
I mean, I I do. I do listen to episodes.
I think it's really it's a really important part of the craft in understanding how could I do better.
So reflection. Yes.
So I do listen to episodes.
I don't listen to every single one on a Friday.
That's the day that our podcast comes out.
But I certainly have it on, you know, my playlist in terms of, yeah, when I'm just around the house or doing things like that.
Yeah, I certainly definitely listen to it.
But it's not sort of I make sure I sit down and study every episode and go through that.
I have listened to 90 percent of our episodes and I trust Dominic does all of the back end and the editing and all that.
And I absolutely trust his I trust his skill, his talent, his ability.
So, yeah, when I listen to it and, you know, we're there.
So at the same time, I sort of go aside from some little surprises that Dom will sometimes put in post-production.
I've heard it. I've heard the app because we were talking about it.
So, yeah, it's really good in terms of reflection and in terms of craft.
But, yeah, I find it difficult to listen to myself, to be perfectly honest.
So that's that's part of it as well.
Dom, do you have anything to add?
Well, yeah, I listen to every episode.
Obviously, I listen to every episode during editing.
Yes. And I find that that is that can be quite interruptive of the of the process because you detach yourself.
You're getting very technical.
You're listening for lip smacks and gasps and ums and everything else.
So then I always go back, I give it a week and then I and then I go listen to the episode as if I'm an audience member.
And I'm I'm a hypercritical person of podcasts in a like a nice way.
But I'm with Kate and I do that when we watch film.
We just it's not that it's not positive or negative.
We just love to dissect all the technical elements of how things are put together.
We're not seeking perfection, but I really love to go back and listen to every episode.
And I tell you one that really changed and it goes back to your previous question,
something that changed Kate and I's confidence in communication style was when we did the Death Island episode, Kate.
Yes. You're probably not up to yet, Deborah, but it's a little bit in.
It's in the 20s, I think. And it's I'm almost there.
Yeah. This was our first international story.
This was another example of a story that we did before we went to a location and how much things changed for us,
especially me, since I was the person that visited and speaking to the locals and understanding the impact that that story
and that that sort of branding or that image that's now being painted of that island and how terrible that can be.
Even just using the term Death Island, it's not it shouldn't be used, shouldn't be called Death Island.
And when you get to that episode, we do a sort of retraction episode afterwards,
really going into the detail of why it's still an interesting story.
We're never going to delete that episode.
But there was a learning journey for us in going, OK, now we know how we can both be respectful, but also share a story.
So, oh, yeah. And that shows growth to you on your own part.
Just you get better at what you do and you see the different ways that we we need to approach things.
So, yeah, that's that's great.
Well, if you guys were to have a dream guest on your podcast, who would that be?
You already have me here. So, yeah, well, that's it.
We've done it. We've kicked that box. We're good to go.
I think that's so it's really I was thinking about this last night,
and I find it really difficult because it depends because our podcast is so varied in what we talk about.
You know, I feel like I would want people, not necessarily anybody famous or anybody attached to another podcast.
I feel like I would just want to have, you know, and this is something I've talked about,
is that collection of people who have that real world experience.
So someone who's worked in an asylum, someone who's done work in a at a haunted house or has,
you know, worked somewhere that kind of covers off on some of our topics.
I spoke to so Dominic's sister, Jessica, is a nurse.
So I was talking to her because I did waking up in a coma episode is one that's much further down the track.
But I was speaking to her about, you know, how does anesthesia work?
Is this a common thing that happens to patients?
Having a chat with her about people who are almost experts or have real world experience in the topic that we're talking about,
because that's really what we do. I'm just I've become interested in our podcast.
I've become interested in learning about different things.
And so that would be my dream guest is, I mean, ultimately, someone who's worked in an asylum would probably be my favorite.
I would I want to hear all the all the stories. But Dom, have you got someone else in mind or?
Yeah, I had a I had a real good think about it, too.
I think now that we're into, you know, our 60s, we we're starting to get a rhythm down where we really focus in on specific phobias
and going into the psychology of phobias and why they exist.
That's a big inspiration for Kate Knight. So I think it would be really lovely in the future.
Who knows? Maybe we could use this lovely platform that Deborah has introduced us to to actually have guests that experience those phobias.
And if they were brave enough or courageous enough to sit through one of our stories and talk us through, you know, what their experience is,
I think that could be really interesting. But on the flip side, I think we'd probably have Pierce Brosnan as our first famous guest.
Yeah. Surely.
Yeah. Well, since you were just talking about that, too,
do you have any advice for our listeners on how we can avoid what scares us or how we can face those terrors head on?
I think I just recently watched the Final Destination series of films.
So, you know, for those who aren't familiar, it's essentially about death's plan.
It's about a group of kids and one of the kids has a like a premonition that the plane that he's on is going to blow up and that happens.
But he manages to get off the plane and then follows a path of, oh, this was supposed to be the next victim.
This was supposed to be the next victim. And whilst they're like a teen gore thriller horror kind of film, I just think that there's something about that.
I think that you don't know. You don't know what's going to happen one day to the next.
You have no clue or control. And I think that's one thing that Dom and I figured out is, you know,
the number one fear that people have or at least top three, top five maybe is dying.
And so if that's there constantly and that stops you from living your life, then that's a concern.
That's you know, that's not the best, I suppose.
So the way I see it is it's something that's out of your control. Yes.
So you can only, you know, do what you can control, which is whether or not you want to be working where you work or living where you live or spending time with, you know, family and friends.
And that's the kind of stuff that you can have an impact on. But everything else is like, who knows?
So true. Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes with age and maturity as well.
You know, I'm of the mature life cycle here and I've had all my life experiences.
I've had my fears of the unknown growing up and in my 20s, just not even knowing about, oh my gosh, there's a big world out there.
But of course, that was way before the Internet and things like that.
So the Internet has even just opened up the whole world. Look at us now.
When you you just have to face those fears, but it just may take maybe a little bit of age and maturity for that to really happen.
Yeah, definitely. And I think as much as Dom and I would like to consider ourselves,
you know, we can we can read the definition of phobias, but in no way, shape or form,
should anybody be listening to any advice we ever dish out?
But at the same time, yeah, you're right. It's you know, it's personal values.
It's a personal belief. But I mean, I was saying to Dom last week,
I'm becoming as I move into a more mature life cycle, also becoming more afraid of heights.
I've always been a bit afraid of heights, but I've just been noticing I'm becoming worse.
Wow. So I want to do something to tackle that. Like airplanes and stuff doesn't don't bother me.
But if it's a percept, like if I can perceive the depth, it freaks me out.
I get like wobbly legs and all sorts. It's like, yeah, annoying.
So look, I'll attempt to do something about that.
But aside from that, other fears and stuff, I don't know, Dom, do you?
Yeah, well, I think we discussed it in one of our episodes, and it's something that I adopted pretty early on in life.
I've done it for the last maybe 20 years.
I have a list of all the things that I'm most afraid of.
And obviously, that list changes as your life progresses and you mature.
But every year, instead of doing a New Year's resolution or whatever, I do set goals.
But one of the things I always set for myself is to conquer one of my fears that's on my list.
Wow. And that's what we explore in one of our episodes when I did diving.
So I've always been irrationally afraid of being in deep water and going underwater.
Yes, understood.
And I decided that instead of being crippled by that fear,
I didn't necessarily set the goal of I have to go dive and I have to be the best diver or I have to go swim with a shark.
It was more that I needed to commit to myself to for this year.
I'm going to attempt this fear. I'm going to play with this fear.
I'm going to interact with it and see how far can I push it.
And diving is now one of my favorite things.
I'm still very much afraid of it, but it's now one of my favorite things to do when I travel.
And I'm going to be diving for the rest of my life.
Wow. That is an amazing story.
Yeah. So it's just a bit of like, I think it's just setting that behavior or that practice in me that I know each year I'm going to face one.
And another great example is me always being afraid of being on stage, public speaking,
being just having any sort of audience when I was young, that thought just crippled me.
And I would be sick. I'd vomit. My knees would shake. I just, you know, I couldn't even physically do it.
And I went when I was doing my second degree, I had an extra major subject that I could pick and I didn't know what to pick.
So I ended up doing a three year degree in performance art.
And now I'm if you give me a stage, I'll be on it. I'll push people off it.
Like, I love being in front of people and I love performing and I do drag all the time.
And that's cool.
It's just it's another fear that if I hadn't have faced it or tried to just interact with it is the only way I wouldn't say conquer it, but just interact with it.
Yeah, because it makes things easier. The more you do it, the easier it gets for sure.
I don't. Sorry, I have to think inside my head for a moment.
Please do. I try to not do that too much because it's scary up in here. So I just.
I'm pausing. All right. Well, that is wonderful, you guys.
I appreciate the questions that you guys answered for us.
And I just the one more question for you. Where can we find you online?
Great question. We are on lots of social media platforms.
So we have a YouTube channel. It's just plain old recordings of our episodes.
So for those that need to see instead of hear whatever your accessibility needs are, we're on YouTube.
We also have Instagram. Our TikTok is probably our funnest channel.
So I would go recommend. I don't know if you're into TikTok or not, but yeah, you can find us on all those channels.
Just look up Shitten Bricks podcast. So there's no G at the end of Shitten.
You just get numb to it. You just say it so many times it doesn't sound like a bad word.
But yeah, that's our socials. And then, Kate, you might want to talk about Patreon.
Yeah, absolutely. So again, Shitten Bricks podcast. You can find us on Patreon.
We've got some bonus episodes, which we've been same as you, Deb.
We've been trying to catch up or give ourselves a bit of a break over the over Christmas and New Year's here.
So we have done probably what five episodes in the past week and a half, plus a couple of bonus ones.
So those bonus episodes are separate to our main episode.
So those are just for our Patreon subscribers. But we also have early release of episodes on a Thursday rather than a Friday.
Yes, additional content as well as, yeah, updates and everything.
We're planning on having a live show in the New Year. So in 2023.
So that's something that Patreon subscribers will hear about first and foremost.
So just lots of little things. And it also obviously just goes to support us and what we're doing and hopefully help us to continue to grow.
So the more people we have on there, it's like five bucks a month that we love that. That would be amazing.
Yeah, that sounds great. So definitely go check them out on their social medias. And absolutely.
But I have a question for you guys now. I have a story on Cleo Smith. And do we have time for that?
That's what I need to know from you guys. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm locked in. I'm here today.
I don't know if you've got anything else planned, but I'm here for the rest of the night.
My my husband's at work. The dogs are downstairs.
I turn the music on. So hopefully you won't hear Dennis barking because he just loves to join in sometimes.
I love that your dog's name is Dennis. That is what is it? So two dogs. So you've got Dennis and who else?
Dennis and Ava. Oh my God. I love that. That's brilliant. Well, I mean, I don't mind if Dennis joins in.
OK, so great. You all I am so excited to be talking with you and definitely go check them out.
And if you guys have a couple more minutes, we will go into my little storyline,
because today we're going to talk about Cleo Smith, a four year old girl who was snatched from her tent on October 16th of 2021
while camping in let me see if I can get this name right here. I don't know if you guys correct me.
Carnivon. That doesn't sound correct.
Look, it doesn't sound right, but we'll just say it's a coastal town with a population of 5000 people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is about 900 kilometers or 560 miles from Perth in Western Australia.
I'm going to say Carnivon. I would say Carnivon, although, you know, I could be wrong.
I haven't spent a lot of time in Western Australia, but I think Carnivon.
That sounds like it was in the news more. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry.
No, it's OK. Hopefully I don't have to say it again.
Cleo, her mother, Ellie, her stepdad, Jake, and her sister had just set up camp at Quaba Blowholes Campsite.
Hope I said that one right, too. Yeah.
Which is considered to be a destination site for outdoor enthusiasts due to its location, scenery, caves and lagoons.
And I didn't ask you guys this question because I like to start off that way. But do you guys go camping?
Yes, me, I do.
Can I tell you my idea of camping? And I've used this line so many times.
But my idea of camping is accommodation that has a shower curtain instead of a shower door.
That's camping to me. So I do not camp.
I do not want to camp if I'm forced to camp. I will not be happy.
But no, it's not for me. Everything is too difficult.
Like you just make a cup of tea. It takes you like an hour.
And I can't with I've just beyond that part of my life. I just can't.
It's too much. Yeah. Yeah. I'm at the point where I need a bed and a shower myself and a kitchenette.
Yeah. Well, the Smiths settled into their first night at the campgrounds in a two room tent.
And Ellie and Jake were on one side of the tent, while Cleo and her sister were on the other side of the tent.
Between the hours of 1 a.m. and 6 a.m. on October 16th, Cleo was taken from where she was sleeping next to her sister.
The sleeping bag was also taken and the tent zipper was open to the height of an adult.
So authorities, when they started investigating, noticed that Cleo could not have gotten herself out of that tent.
Good point to make. Yeah. Campers reported hearing a car leave the camp around three o'clock in the morning,
which was later spotted by a motorist passing by the area around that same time.
And Ellie told authorities that she had gotten Cleo a glass of water somewhere around that one o'clock hour.
So between that time and with the other campers feedback,
police were able to narrow down the timeline that Cleo had disappeared, which is between that one o'clock and six o'clock in the morning.
Now, police began an extensive search using a 100 person police force, drones, horseback and military
search equipment to blanket around 600 kilometers or 373 miles of Western Australia.
But they could not find Cleo anywhere. So you guys know about this story, right?
Yeah, it was huge. It was a massive news item for sure.
Yeah. And something for listeners that are not based in Australia,
you really have to just comprehend how much space there is, especially in Western Australia.
That area, there wouldn't have been more than like 20 people living.
It's just so vast and so empty.
And if you get lost, it's it's a whole another set of complications and challenges, right?
Absolutely. Well, the police also interviewed every person registered at the campsite that night, all 110 of them.
And they began piecing together information that the campers provided through their cell phone news.
Just, you know, any time that you guys are around your campsite, you know, you're going to take pictures or what have you.
So they were able to provide some information from their cell phones.
Plus, there was a CCTV surveillance footage that they could look at as well.
But I'm personally pretty impressed with how quickly everybody acted on this.
I mean, I guess that would definitely happen when a child goes missing, but they acted really quickly, which is good.
Yeah, agreed. And I think the sheer magnitude of the reaction as well.
It went from zero to 100 real fast.
Like they just went, yeah, we're all on this. Let's get everybody, everybody involved, which was amazing.
Yeah, just just overnight here in Australia, we had four teenagers going missing off the bay in Mornington Peninsula near where Kate and I live.
Four teenagers who were afloat at night in the bay for the entire night.
And I wouldn't say like the state shut down, but it was number one story.
Everyone knew what was going on, where to look.
And because we're a coastal sort of country, everyone lives on the coast.
Everyone knows how to swim.
Everyone's used to being in the water.
And you just you know, the gravity of the situation.
And luckily, they were found this morning.
All four of them have been rescued. But that's good news.
This sort of thing is everyone's very aware and the community always responds like always, which is fantastic.
Yeah, hypersensitive.
Well, a one million dollar reward, which would be equal to about seven hundred and forty three US dollars, that was also issued.
And phone calls plus bounty hunters came out of the woodwork, but nothing of substance really came to fruition from the reward being put out.
Some articles that I read said that maybe they put that reward out a little bit too soon.
But I mean, it really didn't account for very much.
It was like you guys said, everybody just really came together and did their piece trying to find Cleo.
So really the reward, whether it was there or not, it seemed like there was definitely some some movement on this.
It's not really in Australian culture to to be driven by money in a situation like this.
I mean, to be perfectly honest, that's part of a story I didn't know.
I didn't realize there was a million dollar reward.
That seems so silly to me.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, it shows your humanity for sure, which small children, I don't know who would be driven by money, but there's somebody out there.
I mean, the bounty hunters came.
Yeah, that's it. They came out of the woodwork.
But didn't end up helping.
Data from nearby cell towers were also reviewed, which led the police to a man named Terrence Darryl Kelly, age 36.
And he was not originally on the list of suspects that police had accumulated.
But any guesses, you guys, as to what put him on the police's radar?
I'm trying to remember, but I'm also just trying to think of an answer without having prior information.
Did he post something on Tick Tock?
No, but he had a long list of past visits at Coobah Blow Hills campsite.
Oh, yeah. Just visiting, like just checking it out or as in staying there.
Well, I feel like I mean, I don't know how it's set up there.
So if you have to register, sure, you're going to write your name down if you're registered.
But do you have to sign in if you are coming to that website, coming to a campsite there?
Because here where I live, you usually have to sign in if you're not a registered guest.
So that could be I'm not really sure.
Oh, OK. I'm definitely the wrong person to ask in terms of campsite etiquette because I try to avoid them.
I agree. You know, if you're at a hotel, you do leave a credit card.
That's but that's my level of accommodation worries.
Well, Kelly was of no relation to the Smiths.
But during the investigation, Ellie, who is Cleo's mom,
she regularly posted updates of Cleo's disappearance on Facebook,
which will come in in just a couple of minutes when we're talking about this.
So just keep that in mind.
Now, police got the break that they needed in less than three weeks
when they identified something very specific about that car
that was seen driving away from the campsite the night that Cleo disappeared.
So whoever saw the car, honestly, I have tried to figure out what that very specific thing was about the car.
But I could not find anything. You guys might have some feedback on that.
I could not find anything to say an identifier for that vehicle.
But police did notice something.
I feel like it was it was either like a sticker or it was something like on the car,
like some sort of panel damage or something like that.
Yeah. But I remember there being something in the news where they were like, yeah, they noticed this thing.
And I just in my head, it keeps popping up that it was like a sticker,
like a bumper sticker or like a religious symbol or something on the car.
You know, you can stick those on sometimes. But yeah, I don't know, though.
Well, according to the BBC, Kelly, who would not have any reason otherwise,
was seen by one of his neighbors buying diapers at a local store.
So he obviously didn't have that reason to buy diapers.
And they were called nappies in the article, by the way.
I had to go look that up to see what the heck that was.
That's a little Aussie word nappies.
After a thorough investigation, police raided Kelly's locked home 18 days after Cleo disappeared.
And Kelly was not home at the time. I guess he was out getting diapers.
Cleo was discovered inside the house all by herself.
I mean, what the heck, guys? Yeah.
All right. When the police came upon Cleo inside the house,
one of the policemen picked her up and asked her her name.
And she simply answered, my name is Cleo.
I mean, I have goosebumps. That's so sweet. Yeah. Yeah.
And there's a photo, if anyone is interested, there's a does.
It's just a classic photo of that moment, which was captured on film.
But they just did a still shot of it. And it's very heartwarming.
It is every picture I saw of Cleo. She's smiling.
She's just a just a naturally happy, happy child.
So that's one of the reasons why I'm doing the dash is because I need some happy endings here.
Definitely. So that was really, really heartwarming, because I did see that picture.
And that was just just beautiful. All right.
Even though Kelly was not at home during the time when the police raided his house,
he was holding Cleo just blocks from her own house in the same town.
That's crazy. Yeah.
So in a state like that is so vast that you could, you know,
potentially just try to throw a dart to figure out where they might be.
They're just down the road. That that's what really got people as well.
Yeah, because the police did say it was like finding a needle in the haystack.
Yeah, I just when I saw that, I could not believe I guess it would be easier because she was so little.
And it's easier to keep a small child inside a house.
But I just could not believe that in the same town.
Well, Terrence Kelly was charged with forcibly or fraudulently taking or enticing a child under the age of 16.
And he eventually pleaded guilty to child stealing.
And his sentencing hearing took place in December of 2022.
When I went to go look up Terrence Kelly and his sentencing, I don't know if you guys heard about this.
He had a little healthy obsession with something. Did you guys hear about his obsession?
No, no, no. Oh, my. He loves Bratz dolls. Oh, no.
Interesting. I mean, that's fine. If you like Bratz dolls, if you're listening to this and Bratz your thing, that's OK.
But there's something about Bratz dolls and kidnapping little kids that they don't go really well together for me.
Agreed. I mean, that's not the worst of it.
There is a picture posted online with him wearing a Bratz T-shirt,
and he was holding very proudly two Bratz dolls in the photo. So he was posing with them.
And not only that, but he had a room full of Bratz dolls.
When you walk in, all you see is wall to wall Bratz dolls.
Yeah, there's something creepy about that for sure.
As Dom and I always say on our podcast, we will never yuck someone's yum.
But even that sounds like too many Bratz dolls for it to be just a low key hobby.
Yeah, yes. Well, one final thought is when I had mentioned that Cleo's mother had posted updates on social media,
police discovered that Kelly had befriended Ellie, that's Cleo's mother, on Facebook,
and he had been keeping tabs on her and her family.
Oh, no. Dominique, you look like you knew that. Kate, you look a little shocked.
Yeah, just other information details are coming into my mind. But Dom, did you? You knew that?
Yeah, look, I must admit, I teed it off the story once I knew Cleo had been found,
because it's just I think if anyone knows anything about kidnappings and lost people,
it's just those first few days are so vital.
And once it got to 18 days, you know, your heart just sinks and you hope against anything that they'll find the child.
But I remember one little detail and Kate and I have talked about this lots on our podcast.
A lot of people who perpetrate in this sort of manner do want to go back and they do want to revel in whatever it is that they have committed or done
or want to be a part of the solution or investigation and enjoy whatever, whatever the hell it is.
But there's always those very it's and it's credit to police and investigators that do such a great job.
One of those small little details is never insignificant. It makes a huge difference.
So right. Well, during Cleo's disappearance, Kelly also posted a cryptic message on Facebook saying that he needed some privacy
and could not accept friend requests from strangers. He also added us adults have to be careful online, too.
So this was after after Cleo disappeared. Well, needless to say, you guys, that's we do have a happy ending here.
And that is my short and sweet picture of Cleo Smith, our storyline of Cleo Smith.
And so, like I said, I was going to try to keep our episodes a little shorter than usual.
But I wanted to give you guys an opportunity to add anything else that you guys want to about this story or about your podcast,
because that's that's Cleo Smith. I'm just so happy they found her.
Yes. So well done, Deborah. That was fantastic.
And I'm so glad that you told that story because it is a relatively fresh and new story.
And it does have such a happy ending, which isn't always the case. So well done.
Thank you. You guys are my guinea pigs. This is my very first recording session.
And so I still don't have any idea on the full direction that it's going to go.
I guess it just depends on some of the time that you guys had. Thank you so much for sticking with me.
But I do want to thank you all for being here today.
And I'm glad that we could spend this episode together.
And I personally will say that you guys have one of my favorite podcasts out there.
I highly encourage our listeners to go listen to you guys and wherever you get your podcasts and on social media.
Thank you so much for having us. And when we sort of at the start, when we started answering some questions,
I just sort of looked at Dom and I was like, this is not going to go for 20 minutes.
We will just talk and talk and talk. We don't need much.
You just give us a little bit of rope and we will run with it. Like, we'll go. So thank you for letting us.
Oh, yeah. I try to keep the question list relatively small, but I figured with it, with the interaction, everything, honestly,
I mean, I've only been in the podcast arena for nine, 10 months now,
but I just really feel like it's just a really nice community and we're all in it together.
So, yeah, I appreciate you guys coming on today. You are most welcome.
No worries at all. Thank you so much for having us and organizing everything.
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