1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,360 Hi, I'm Courtney. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:15,680 And I'm Patrick. 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,360 And this is our True Crime Podcast. 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,640 Evil Pudding. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,440 We are a husband and wife duo. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,320 I'm ex-military and law enforcement. 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,880 And I'm a true crime professional fanatic. 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,440 And we will together cover the most depraved and most shocking offenders and events that 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,000 you probably have ever heard of. 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,000 That's right. 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,240 Only the most evil are covered here. 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,040 So join us once a week as we serve up some Evil Pudding. 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,400 Hi everyone. 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,640 This is Deb from Dying to be Found. 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,160 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions 16 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:52,760 on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,920 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:58,920 podcast. 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:14,360 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:15,440 Hi everyone. 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,280 This is Deb, your host from Dying to be Found. 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,600 I do have some co-hosts here to help me out today. 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,680 We have a married couple from Texas who have a lot to say about true crime. 24 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:32,680 We have Patrick, an ex-cop and Courtney, a true crime guru from Evil Pudding. 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:33,680 Hi guys. 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,680 Hello everyone. 27 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,160 Thank you so much for having us, Deb. 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,560 We're so excited to be here. 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,720 I couldn't do this without you. 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,720 This is great. 31 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,280 I'm excited that you are here. 32 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:48,080 I'm excited that everybody seems to be taking really nicely to the dash. 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,560 It's really cool to have you guys. 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:50,560 So thanks for being here. 35 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,840 You cannot make amazing what you're doing over there. 36 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Thanks. 37 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,320 Well, before we get started, I wanted to say I'm trying to give my listeners a little taste 38 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,760 of some of the podcasts that I listen to. 39 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,720 You guys have great storylines. 40 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,080 You have great energy. 41 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:10,100 And what I'm doing here on the dash is to bring great podcasters on board, ask you guys 42 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:16,040 a couple of questions and just do a mini story on my own to let you guys help me out with 43 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,040 that. 44 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,680 You cannot wait for the story. 45 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:25,160 Well, I think really we talked about this before we started recording that I would say 46 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,240 that our podcasts are a little bit similar in style as far as how Courtney, you and I 47 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,560 present the storyline. 48 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,320 And it's really cool to meet people that I wouldn't otherwise know. 49 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,400 So this is really good. 50 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,660 I haven't had any awkward silences yet. 51 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:40,660 So that's really good. 52 00:02:40,660 --> 00:02:41,660 That's good. 53 00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:45,160 I don't think that'll be a problem with us. 54 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,160 We're talkers. 55 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:47,160 Yeah, I have plenty to say. 56 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,160 Don't worry. 57 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,160 Good. 58 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:50,480 I do want to warn you guys. 59 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,160 I have had a few tears or two. 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Mainly I get those from my daughter Shelby, but I have possibly had some fellow podcasters 61 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,440 tear up a little bit. 62 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,440 So just warning. 63 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:02,440 Yeah. 64 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:03,440 I don't think that's going to happen today, but 65 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:04,440 It's the nature of the business. 66 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,720 I mean, we're talking about people's lives that were taken tragically and a lot of times 67 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:09,720 horrifically. 68 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,720 So yeah, it happens on our end too. 69 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:11,720 You just don't see us because yeah. 70 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:12,720 Yeah. 71 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:13,720 And also we can edit it out. 72 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Yeah, we can edit it out so you don't hear how to get no teary. 73 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,720 I get it. 74 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,120 So I've got a small list of interview questions for you guys and most of them are standard 75 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,960 questions about your podcast, but I do like to throw in maybe one or two to switch things 76 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:30,960 up. 77 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:36,920 So my first question is of all hobbies that you as a married couple are going to do together. 78 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Why a true crime podcast? 79 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,160 Oh, that's a great question. 80 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,160 Yeah. 81 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,160 I guess I'll take that one. 82 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,360 That's usually me that answers that. 83 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,720 So I think it was like towards the end of COVID or COVID had just started winding down 84 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,440 and people were starting to go back out, but there still wasn't a lot to do. 85 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,040 And she's amazingly staying at home with the kids all the time. 86 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,040 She takes care of them so well. 87 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,840 I'm at work and then she's like, I want to do something. 88 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,200 So we were just joking around. 89 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,200 She's been listening to podcasts. 90 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,120 I hadn't really listened to any other than like Joe Rogan at that point. 91 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,840 And she was like, let's do a podcast. 92 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:06,840 I'm like, you know what? 93 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:07,840 Cool. 94 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:08,840 We can figure it out. 95 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,920 I mean, I work in tech for a living, so it's like I can figure out the tech side of it. 96 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:13,920 Let's do it. 97 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:14,920 And then we did. 98 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,360 She wrote up an episode and we jokingly, if you ever listened to our first one, we were 99 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,000 like, hey, we'll probably have your mom and my mom listen to this. 100 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,000 And they don't even listen. 101 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,120 They have never listened to it. 102 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,520 And then it just kind of, we kind of fell in love with it after we did one. 103 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:28,520 We tried to do, I was skeptical. 104 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,520 Like we're going to do one or two, whatever. 105 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,520 And then we did a first one and I was like, this is kind of fun. 106 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,080 Yeah, it's just became, it became time for me and her to spend together. 107 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,080 Yeah. 108 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,080 Every week. 109 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,080 It's almost like a date night. 110 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,880 It's like we have time that we slot every week to spend together and just kind of, you 111 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,560 know, have a couple of drinks, talk about a story. 112 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,560 I do my silliness on there if you will. 113 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:52,960 And then it's just, that's how it kind of started. 114 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,480 It's kind of evolved from there. 115 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,480 That's amazing. 116 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,880 My, my date night with my husband is to go out to the Mexican restaurant once a week, 117 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,160 but podcasting is cool too. 118 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,400 We do that too. 119 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,880 We just kind of enjoy spending time doing it together and just kind of worked out that 120 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:08,880 way. 121 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Yeah. 122 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:10,880 It's fun. 123 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,280 So what have you guys learned from each other doing this podcast? 124 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:13,640 How much she can research. 125 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:14,640 Holy crap. 126 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,080 Do you have a research background, Courtney? 127 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,320 I do not have a research background. 128 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,520 I should, but, but I do not. 129 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,520 It's just her personality. 130 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:25,520 Yeah. 131 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:31,040 It's just my, I, once I hone in on something, she locks in, I lock in and it's, it's just 132 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,040 my personality. 133 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,720 I'll, I'll become kind of an expert on something. 134 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,520 But you couple that with the empathetic side of her. 135 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,520 She really wants to make sure everything she does is, especially the victims and people 136 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,800 that still survive some of these stories. 137 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,960 She wants to make sure she doesn't upset them or say the wrong thing or, you know. 138 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:47,960 Yeah. 139 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,040 That's been our number one concern is at first I said, I was only going to do the cases like 140 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,640 Ted Bundy, you know, the bigger cases that are always covered. 141 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:02,040 And then there was a few cases that fell into my lap or I was asked to cover where the victims 142 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,360 are very much still alive and active on social media. 143 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:11,160 And it's been a huge deal as we've grown a little bit to maintain integrity and telling 144 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,160 the story. 145 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,040 It's, it's not easy to do, you know, as you know, there's. 146 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,040 Yeah. 147 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,680 There's a lot of ethics involved and I know that's really kind of controversial. 148 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,760 There's a lot of people out there saying, are you trying to make money off of it? 149 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,780 I personally, even if I were to make money, I've got buy me a coffee. 150 00:06:29,780 --> 00:06:34,160 If you guys want to donate, I've gotten one or two donations, not a ton. 151 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,680 But if I were to make money, I would totally put that towards, I've already got some not 152 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,400 for profits that I'm looking at. 153 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,080 So if it ever comes to that, I don't think it ever will. 154 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,080 And that is okay. 155 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,080 That's okay. 156 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:46,080 Yeah. 157 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,960 And just bringing awareness and making sure that we are telling factual events and things 158 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,480 like that, but also being respectful, especially for those people that are still out there 159 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,480 and living their life. 160 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:58,480 Absolutely. 161 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,800 And that's the thing that we, that's the thing that we kind of talked about behind the scenes 162 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,840 when we were doing it is, yeah, we want to tell these stories, but we want to tell them 163 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:06,480 not to remember the monster. 164 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:07,480 Right. 165 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,560 We want to remember the people that were affected by the monster. 166 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Yes. 167 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:12,560 Yes. 168 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,760 And I don't touch too much on the big name cases. 169 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:15,760 Right. 170 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,480 I'm going to contradict myself in just a little while because you'll see why, but I am going 171 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,920 to contradict myself a little bit, but it's not really about that person. 172 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,560 It's about other people. 173 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,920 So yeah, we try not to, but like she says, a lot of people are like, Hey, you guys need 174 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:28,920 to cover this kid. 175 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:29,920 Okay. 176 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:30,920 We'll cover that. 177 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:31,920 Cause everyone's at like, Patreons or friends. 178 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:32,920 Hey, cover that. 179 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:33,920 And we're like, okay. 180 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:34,920 Okay. 181 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,880 And then we try to find the ones that are just like, never heard of it ever. 182 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,400 Well, I'll give you an example. 183 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,800 I listened to you guys did the black Dahlia. 184 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:43,800 Yes. 185 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,160 So did I, but I didn't know that you guys did black Dahlia. 186 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:48,160 Right. 187 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:54,160 And there were so many things in your episode that your perspective was completely different 188 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,160 from mine. 189 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,160 And that's the cool thing. 190 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,200 You can listen to the same story, but everybody has a different perspective. 191 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,200 Completely. 192 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Especially like episodes like that one or like the one we're doing this week. 193 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,600 We just recorded the other day for we're doing Lizzie Borden. 194 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,400 Those unsolved ones are so much fun to do with other podcasts or listen to other people 195 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,240 because they're unsolved. 196 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,760 So it's just literally speculation what happened and everyone has their own opinion based on 197 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,240 what they understand or what they think. 198 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,800 So those are ones that are always fun to listen to. 199 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:26,800 I like to bring cases up that are unsolved because it always keeps it on the table and 200 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,880 it always keeps the visibility there. 201 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,000 So I mean, it works for you in most cases. 202 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,720 So yeah, there's so many different ways. 203 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,160 Well, what time of day do you guys record? 204 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,560 When do you guys find yourselves most productive? 205 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:40,560 How does that work? 206 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:41,560 Well, definitely evenings. 207 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:42,560 It's evenings. 208 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:46,240 We try to stay away from the weekends because our weekends are hectic with all the kids. 209 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,640 So it's usually later in the week whenever she's ready, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, 210 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:50,640 Friday-ish. 211 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:51,640 Right. 212 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,640 And then I still have a job so I'm going to do one like at home. 213 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,800 Yeah, we're not paying the bills with this. 214 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:56,800 Not yet. 215 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:57,800 Not yet. 216 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,800 Do you guys record the same day every week? 217 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,280 We try to. 218 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,600 It's usually towards the end of the week, I would say. 219 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,640 It really depends on the, honestly, it depends on the kids' schedule. 220 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,000 It's usually Thursday or Friday. 221 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,880 It just depends on which one's more hectic and who's running all over the place that day. 222 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,240 And yeah, we are, to answer your question, where I am personally much more productive 223 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,840 on a podcast level in the evenings. 224 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,720 That after I have everything done, everybody's fed. 225 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,640 Well, you can relax and you can just kind of get into it. 226 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,920 You're not worried about people going here and there or cleaning this or cleaning that 227 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:33,920 or whatever. 228 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:34,920 True. 229 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,560 I think my daughter deals a lot with that right now. 230 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:40,020 Me personally, I have two dogs and a husband at home. 231 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:42,000 So yeah, I got lots of time on my hands. 232 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Well, that's work. 233 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,000 That is a lot of work. 234 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,000 It's a lot of work. 235 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,280 How do people react when they find out you're a True Chrome podcaster? 236 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,440 I think we have different experiences. 237 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:55,440 So you go ahead. 238 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:56,440 You go first. 239 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:57,440 It's always why? 240 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,440 Like how? 241 00:09:58,440 --> 00:09:59,440 Like what? 242 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:05,600 But if they know us, they know her and how much of a True Crime horror fanatic she is. 243 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:10,000 My phone case is literally all the horror. 244 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,520 I have this awesome water bottle, but I'm missing a sticker, I think. 245 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,520 Oh yeah, we can take care of that. 246 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:17,520 Don't worry. 247 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,520 If they know us, they know that me being an ex-cop, ex-military and her being a True Crime 248 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:23,520 fanatic, it makes sense. 249 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:24,520 But most people are just like, really? 250 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:25,520 Why? 251 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:26,520 And we're like, we tried it and we fell in love with it. 252 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,520 I don't know why. 253 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:28,520 I don't know what else to tell you. 254 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,520 It is good. 255 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:30,520 It's so much fun. 256 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,200 And then everybody that you meet along the way, I don't know if you guys have been to 257 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,200 CrimeCon yet, but there's a lot of talk. 258 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,040 The one in September, is that the one in Florida? 259 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,120 Yeah, because Shelby and I are talking about going there too. 260 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,800 We might meet up. 261 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,880 What topics do you guys decide to cover? 262 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,440 Is this the joint effort? 263 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,640 Courtney, do you come and just say, okay, this is what we're doing today? 264 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,480 It's a joint effort sometimes. 265 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,960 Sometimes Pat will do a patisserie, as we call it, where he tells me a story and he 266 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,440 finds those topics on his own. 267 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,800 And he usually blows me away with it. 268 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,040 But I like to surprise him if I can. 269 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,240 There are some times I just can't keep it away because- 270 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,640 And that's how we know our whole premise in the beginning is you were telling a story 271 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,920 that I had no idea about what I was trying to react to as we're doing it. 272 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,360 But then obviously when people are like, hey, cover Lizzie Borden, it's like, okay, I know 273 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,360 that story. 274 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,440 But this is one of our Patreon members first crack. 275 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,480 If they recommend it, we'll cover it. 276 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:38,440 And I have this one Patreon member who became a friend and she finds these cases that have 277 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:39,820 just destroyed me. 278 00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:42,480 And she has just become our resident content creator. 279 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:43,480 She's crazy. 280 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,480 I mean, she comes up with this story you've never even seen. 281 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,560 And then you hear the story and you're like, how did I never know this story? 282 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:50,520 You can't sleep at night kind of cases. 283 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,520 If you haven't heard the episode about our satanic panic. 284 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:55,720 That is, I'm very close. 285 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,880 I am a binge listener. 286 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,720 I just have to start from beginning to end. 287 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,280 And I know that one's coming up. 288 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,280 Yeah. 289 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,280 Right. 290 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,920 And that case, I still loosely remember that one. 291 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,360 That's something else. 292 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:17,320 But yeah, so I usually have these cases that I feel are huge, but very little known. 293 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,240 And that was kind of how I started. 294 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,000 Not many people talk about it. 295 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,840 And then it kind of evolved into people recommending cases and going from there. 296 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,760 And you know, as soon as you start getting people recommending, everyone's going to be 297 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:31,760 like, hey, I want to hear Ted Bundy. 298 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:32,760 Hey, I want to hear Ed Gein. 299 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:33,760 Hey, I want to hear so and so. 300 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:34,760 You're like, okay, we'll do it. 301 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:35,760 Yeah. 302 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,480 But when she does, like we joked about it when the cheese does it, it's like four episodes 303 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,480 for her to do one of those because she goes so deep. 304 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:43,960 So you're the same way with yours. 305 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,280 When you want to do those well known ones, you want to get everything. 306 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,280 Yes. 307 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:49,280 Yeah. 308 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,480 You want to give people something that they didn't know. 309 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,280 We all know Ted Bundy. 310 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,280 Okay. 311 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,320 What's something that they didn't know? 312 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,280 That's what she takes away from it the most is at the end of every episode, especially 313 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,000 if it's like even like Lizzie Borden that we just recorded, she'll ask me and she's 314 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,000 like, did you know all that? 315 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000 And I'm like, hell no. 316 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,120 And she's like, okay, good. 317 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:13,280 That's one of the things that I've discovered as well is that even if it's an older case, 318 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:21,140 there's still information to be found, newer articles, even as early as 2022, even 2023. 319 00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:26,440 You can still get additional information based on when it was first in the news. 320 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,640 So yeah, that's the cool part about it. 321 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:34,200 One cool thing I thought about Lizzie Borden, not to go too much on a tangent, but I have 322 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:40,640 an 18 year old and we sat down and we watched a movie together about Lizzie Borden and she 323 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,200 said, wait, wasn't Lizzie Borden a child? 324 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,000 And I said, no, girl, she was in her mid thirties when this happened. 325 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,320 And she said, what, because she's depicted and I didn't realize this, she's depicted 326 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,800 a lot as a child. 327 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,600 Or early twenties or very, very young. 328 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:57,600 Right, right. 329 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,600 She was single and lived at home. 330 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,600 So, and I guess that would make it much more interesting, right? 331 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:09,040 And it kind of, it kind of gets, it's like folklore, you know, the facts get lost over 332 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,040 the years. 333 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,040 It's really cool. 334 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,280 It's cool to break down old cases like that. 335 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:14,280 I love it. 336 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:15,280 It really is. 337 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,600 And that's the stuff I'm talking with my sister, Beth, about this season. 338 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,000 And I know that's on the list. 339 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,840 I did one recently, I did an episode recently, and then I had a listener say, hey, you did 340 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:26,840 that one. 341 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,720 Can you please do this one? 342 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,480 So I pushed that one because it's been heard a lot, but it'll, it'll come down the pipe 343 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:34,480 waste sooner or later. 344 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:35,480 Yeah. 345 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:36,480 Oh, absolutely. 346 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,680 And it's always fun to learn new things about the case. 347 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:39,680 Yeah. 348 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,340 So what is your favorite episode? 349 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:42,340 Do you have one? 350 00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:43,340 I have one. 351 00:14:43,340 --> 00:14:44,340 You know, my favorite episode. 352 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:45,340 What is it? 353 00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:46,340 I don't, I guess. 354 00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:47,340 The Runaway Devil? 355 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:48,340 Oh, yes. 356 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:50,160 That is the case that I heard last year before we did it. 357 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,160 And it is just... 358 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,160 Jasmine Richards. 359 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,160 I don't know. 360 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,240 It has just stuck with me to the fact that just the whole case in itself, and then the 361 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,680 fact that at 23 years old, she was completely off parole, completely back in the world, 362 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,160 and no one even knows where she is now. 363 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,600 And she killed her whole entire family to include her eight year old brother. 364 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,600 And she's just out on the streets. 365 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Yeah. 366 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,480 And that one's, that one's probably my favorite just because of that case. 367 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,920 And she can tell you, we heard somebody else cover it at one point, and it's just, it's 368 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,520 stuck with me ever since I heard about it. 369 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:16,520 Right. 370 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:17,520 It's just crazy. 371 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,800 I think my favorite case would have to be, ooh, if I had to guess. 372 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,800 I don't know if I could even pinpoint it down to one favorite case. 373 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,800 I figured you'd say Hinterkifex just because you liked saying that one. 374 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,800 Hinterkifex. 375 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,360 Maybe Hinterkifex right up there. 376 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,720 That's baffling to me. 377 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,680 Any of our old timey cases are my favorite. 378 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:42,560 And I know they don't do as well, but for me, they're so much fun to go back. 379 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,960 That's just fascinating to me. 380 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,720 If I could do that only, I would be happy. 381 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:47,720 All right. 382 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:48,960 I'm going to throw one at you here. 383 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,600 If you were to have a last meal, what would it be? 384 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,800 I know what, I know what mine would be easy because I've actually had this conversation 385 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:56,800 with people. 386 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:02,280 It would be chicken fried steak and white gravy, the country gravy and mashed potatoes 387 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,320 with the white gravy on it, of course. 388 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,320 Oh, wow. 389 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,880 And then it would be cherry pop tarts and ice cream. 390 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:09,880 Yum. 391 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,360 That sounds delicious. 392 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,360 No vegetable. 393 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:13,760 I didn't hear a vegetable though. 394 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,760 Did I hear a vegetable? 395 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:15,760 If we're dying, we don't need vegetables. 396 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:16,760 We don't need vegetables if we're dying. 397 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:17,760 That's true. 398 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:18,760 How about you, Patrick? 399 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:19,760 Mine would be like a whole buffet. 400 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:20,760 I don't know. 401 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:21,760 A buffet? 402 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:28,760 Because I'm having like raisin canes, chicken fingers out there. 403 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,760 Loaded mashed potatoes. 404 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,760 Okay. 405 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:33,760 Yeah. 406 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,180 So nice hearty meals over there. 407 00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:37,180 Is that what you eat in Texas? 408 00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:38,180 I want to eat. 409 00:16:38,180 --> 00:16:39,180 I think it's the Irish in me. 410 00:16:39,180 --> 00:16:40,180 That's all I ever eat. 411 00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:41,180 Yeah. 412 00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:42,180 I don't know. 413 00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:43,180 I can literally live on mashed potatoes. 414 00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:44,180 Same actually. 415 00:16:44,180 --> 00:16:45,180 All right. 416 00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:51,880 Is there anything else that you guys want our listeners to know about Evil Pudding or 417 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,880 you guys, Patrick, Courtney? 418 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,280 No, definitely just check us out. 419 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,400 We're happy to be here and check us out. 420 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,720 Where can we check you out? 421 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,720 We have our Instagram is Evil Pudding. 422 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:04,720 Is it podcast? 423 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,800 I need to go back and check. 424 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:14,920 Evil Pudding podcast and then on our Patreon also under the same name and we're on Spotify. 425 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:15,920 We're on iHeart. 426 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,920 And you go to our Instagram has links to all the things we have. 427 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:24,440 It has links to Spotify, has links to Patreon, Twitter, email, everything on there. 428 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:30,000 So go to Instagram at Evil Pudding podcast and find everything else right there in the 429 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,000 one spot. 430 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,000 Yes. 431 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Or you can email us Evil Pudding podcast at Gmail. 432 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,360 We want to know there for information. 433 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:38,360 Case recommendations. 434 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:42,720 We have a case back form that you can recommend cases and we will do them. 435 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:43,720 Okay. 436 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Well, thank you so much. 437 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,800 I've learned so much about you and that's amazing. 438 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,120 You guys are great. 439 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,400 I can't wait to hear your next episode. 440 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,620 Are you ready to get into my mini story here? 441 00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:56,620 We are ready. 442 00:17:56,620 --> 00:17:59,280 We're ready for the meat and potatoes. 443 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,280 All right. 444 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,800 We talked about a few high profile cases. 445 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,040 I personally do not do a ton of those. 446 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,680 I've done a couple, but we are going to touch on one today. 447 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,600 And when I say we're just going to touch on it, it's really not about this person. 448 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,720 That's your little hint on the direction we're going here. 449 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,880 And hopefully you'll pick up on who this is because I will go into it just a little bit. 450 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,360 But let me start by giving you some information on another case. 451 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,320 You'll see where I'm going with this because I'm not going to be making today's episode 452 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:34,600 about one of the victims of the high profile case and we'll just go from there. 453 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:35,720 So here we go. 454 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:43,680 In June, 1979, a young white male was discovered deceased with multiple shotgun wounds in the 455 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,120 greater San Francisco area of California. 456 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:53,320 Investigators named him John Doe number 89 and they would spend the next 36 years trying 457 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,200 to give him an identity. 458 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,240 So one of these cold cases. 459 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,160 But what we're going to do here is we're actually going to fast forward to 2011. 460 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,160 Oh wow. 461 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,160 Okay. 462 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,160 Yep. 463 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,000 Because it went that long without having an identity and there was not a lot of information 464 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,600 to go on in this case, but we'll get there. 465 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:18,000 We're going to fast forward into 2011 where Sheriff Tom Dart from the Chicago area police 466 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,720 decided to revisit some old cold cases from way back in the 1970s. 467 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:30,200 Do you guys have any idea what was going on in Chicago during the 1970s regarding true 468 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,200 crime? 469 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,200 Do you have an idea? 470 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,200 I'm racking my brain. 471 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,680 We're stuck in California missing people because it's the decade of the serial killer. 472 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,680 So when I was doing my research, I too was trying to make this connection, but we're 473 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,200 going to concentrate on Chicago right now because there was a very famous serial killer 474 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,740 who was very active around that time in Chicago. 475 00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:53,760 Have you heard of John Wayne Gacy? 476 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,760 Yeah, I was about to say that name. 477 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,760 No way. 478 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,760 That's why I was making that face. 479 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,760 I was making a face, is that Gacy? 480 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:01,760 Yeah. 481 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,600 If anybody is not familiar with him, he is definitely a high profile serial killer. 482 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,080 He's the infamous clown killer who went by the name of Pogo, Pogo the Clown. 483 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,080 Yes. 484 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,280 He's probably one of the top 10 most famous serial killers in the US. 485 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,280 Oh yeah. 486 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,280 Gosh. 487 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,840 I saw a documentary on him. 488 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:20,840 He just blended in. 489 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:21,840 He's a true officer. 490 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:22,840 Horrible. 491 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:30,280 He killed 33 young men and teenage boys between 1972 and 1978. 492 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:31,280 33. 493 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,720 Got away with it for that long. 494 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,760 I don't know why because she said Chicago. 495 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,760 I went to HH home even though it was like a decade or like a century later. 496 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:39,760 I'm like- 497 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:40,760 Well, it's not in the 70s. 498 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:46,360 Well, Gacy went on to be executed in 1994 for these crimes. 499 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:53,180 And when he met his fate, eight of those 33 young men or boys had not yet been identified. 500 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:56,680 So that's the direction that we're going with this today. 501 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:01,360 I'm not going to spend a ton of time on Gacy here, but you'll see the connection as we 502 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:02,360 go along. 503 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:03,360 Okay. 504 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:09,640 In 2011, Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart reopened the Gacy case in hopes of making headway for 505 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,440 those eight victims that were unnamed in this case. 506 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:19,000 Court's office made a public appeal to anyone to come forward if they had a loved one who 507 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:25,360 met the profile of Gacy's victims, which was young missing white males that may have gone 508 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:29,880 missing from the Chicago's North side area during the 1970s. 509 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,160 Kudos to him for getting out there and reopening all this. 510 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,160 Absolutely. 511 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,960 If it wasn't for him, I mean, who knows? 512 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:37,960 Just wait. 513 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Oh, watch. 514 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:45,880 All right, so I mentioned Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart's office requested that eight of 515 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:51,640 Gacy's unidentified victims would be exhumed in the hopes that they could be identified 516 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,520 through DNA testing. 517 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:58,320 And that's something that I talk a lot about on this mini series, The Dash. 518 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,360 So I mean, again, we said so many things come up decades after the case. 519 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:07,360 And in this case, Sheriff Dart wanted to see if he could get more answers. 520 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:09,720 DNA was pretty established by then. 521 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,360 That was the direction he was going in. 522 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:17,560 Within weeks of the bodies being exhumed, one of the eight victims was identified as 523 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,000 a William George Bundy. 524 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:27,120 And William was initially given the name victim number 19 until his sister came forward after 525 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:28,880 Sheriff Dart's public plea. 526 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,160 I'm going to tell you upfront, this is not the young man that went missing at the beginning 527 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,240 of this episode, but you'll see how all this goes into play. 528 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,880 I was wondering if it was. 529 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,880 Yeah. 530 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,880 What are the things I like to do? 531 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,280 And I just, this is me personally, I just feel like these victims have to have names. 532 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,640 They have to have voices. 533 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,280 I just didn't want William George Bundy to be just, I needed for him to be a piece of 534 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,280 this case. 535 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,280 Victim number 19 for the rest of the time? 536 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Right. 537 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,280 Yes, exactly. 538 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,280 He was a person, he had a family. 539 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,280 Yeah. 540 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,440 And his sister came forward after Sheriff Dart's public plea. 541 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,520 She had provided familial DNA that helped to identify him, so good for her. 542 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Amazing. 543 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,520 That kind of puts things into perspectives for me because you had just mentioned Patrick, 544 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,520 victim number 19. 545 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Yeah. 546 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,720 William needed a name here. 547 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,920 But then again, 19, that's a big number. 548 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,240 It's a large number. 549 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,240 Yeah. 550 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:28,480 William was a 19 year old young man who had gone missing in October, 1976 when he just 551 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,640 went out for a party. 552 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,380 He was just a typical teenager doing his thing. 553 00:23:32,380 --> 00:23:37,620 He had forgotten his wallet at home, so when he left the party to retrieve it, he was never 554 00:23:37,620 --> 00:23:38,620 seen again. 555 00:23:38,620 --> 00:23:39,620 Oh gosh. 556 00:23:39,620 --> 00:23:40,620 Just a victim of circumstance. 557 00:23:40,620 --> 00:23:44,620 If he had never been to the wall, he probably never would have left the party and would 558 00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:45,620 never have been picked up by Daisy. 559 00:23:45,620 --> 00:23:48,360 Didn't do anything wrong during his life. 560 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:49,360 I know. 561 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:50,600 And so I have to sit here. 562 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,520 These are just extra things I think about, like where did they cross paths? 563 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:55,520 Absolutely. 564 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,620 Do you know if he was walking or was he driving? 565 00:23:58,620 --> 00:24:03,400 Very little information was out there, but I did find that when he was approached or 566 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,880 whenever they did come across each other, authorities do believe that William had been 567 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,440 lured by Gacy under the premise of coming to work for that construction company that 568 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,540 we all know that he worked with. 569 00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:16,280 That was Gacy's MO at the time. 570 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,280 So of course, you're 19 years old, you're going to make good money. 571 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,800 Of course you're going to be lured in. 572 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,800 Vile creature. 573 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,800 Yup. 574 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,500 Well, this is where I'm going to stop talking about Gacy now because in my opinion, he's 575 00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:33,720 gotten way too much publicity, but you will see how this connects in just a minute, which 576 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,120 is really the good part of this entire story. 577 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:41,480 We're going to go back to John Doe number 89 back in California. 578 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,140 And he was the young man that was found shot to death in San Francisco. 579 00:24:45,140 --> 00:24:50,920 Based on Sheriff Dart's public plea to identify Gacy's eight victims, it took another three 580 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,840 years before one family member came forward to report that her half brother, Andre or 581 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,000 Andy Drath fit Gacy's victim profile. 582 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,580 I mean, I say good for Sheriff Dart for keeping that campaign alive that long. 583 00:25:04,580 --> 00:25:08,360 He really put a lot of effort into this. 584 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,840 And this is after Gacy had been executed as well. 585 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,840 Yes. 586 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:13,840 15 years after Gacy was executed. 587 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,320 I mean, this is a solved case. 588 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,440 He's just doing this to give these families a little word closure, but- 589 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,580 It is closure. 590 00:25:21,580 --> 00:25:23,520 I don't use that word too much. 591 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,960 I just say give answers because there's something they have to live with. 592 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,480 At least they can at that point say, this is what happened and not just sit there and 593 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,480 wonder for 20 years, whatever. 594 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,560 It's horrible that some of these families, they just don't know what happens to their 595 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:40,560 loved ones. 596 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,560 And that's worse. 597 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:42,560 That's worse. 598 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:43,560 Because you're in limbo, you have hope. 599 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,520 At least they have an answer at this point. 600 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,520 So now they can process. 601 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,640 Because you can't really process and deal if you don't ever know. 602 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,880 Do I warn them? 603 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,880 Are they still alive? 604 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,880 Did they run away? 605 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,800 So now we have five unanswered questions and two, they probably have a grave to go to. 606 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,780 That in itself is probably helpful. 607 00:25:59,780 --> 00:26:00,780 Absolutely. 608 00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:03,160 There's just too many unanswered, I don't know. 609 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,160 I'm not there. 610 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,160 I don't know how to, I would process that. 611 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,060 Well, couldn't even, again, put myself in the situation. 612 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:12,360 I would literally be hunting for 20 years. 613 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:14,680 I would be drawing every day. 614 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,680 I see that, Patrick. 615 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,680 All right. 616 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:23,520 Now, Dr. Willa Wertheimer, Andy's younger half-sister, came forward after DART turned 617 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,360 the campaign into pretty much, honestly, probably a manhunt of sorts. 618 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:34,160 Came forward to report that she had last seen Andy in Chicago between late 1978 or early 619 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,500 1979. 620 00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:37,960 This is still when Gacy was active. 621 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,440 And he had plans of moving between Chicago, Illinois and San Francisco, California. 622 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:50,560 So Willa submitted her DNA to investigators in 2014, which was then entered into the combined 623 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,200 DNA index system, which is also known as CODIS. 624 00:26:54,200 --> 00:27:00,280 For our listeners, that's a federal DNA database that cross-references DNA with unidentified 625 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,440 victims or unself cases. 626 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,440 We love CODIS. 627 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:04,440 We talk about it all the time. 628 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,440 We're the game changers, especially when you talk about the 70s with all the... 629 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:07,440 We wish it was around. 630 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,640 ... especially in California, when there were so many serial killers active in California 631 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,040 and so many Jane and John Doe's popping up everywhere. 632 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:19,720 So one of the things that Willa had said, she had a public plea, was for anybody who 633 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,160 has a family member who might be missing, she says, go get your DNA, have it sent off 634 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,520 to the CODIS and maybe that'll open up or at least solve some more cases. 635 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,720 I don't know how I feel about that. 636 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,160 How do you guys feel about that? 637 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:39,000 See, it's hard for me to have a negative feeling only because so many cases have been solved 638 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,320 with familial DNA. 639 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,320 With the Golden State College, you remember how huge that was when it was solved years 640 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:51,560 later and he was old when he got put away for that. 641 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,560 But I get the other side of it. 642 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:53,560 I do get the other side of it. 643 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:59,600 These families that have actually moved on want to go relive that trauma of their loved 644 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,960 one disappearing from 20, 30, 40 years ago. 645 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,960 Do you really want to bring that all up? 646 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,960 Because you're talking about parents that are probably now 60, 70 years old, kids that 647 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,960 are... 648 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:09,960 They've moved on with life. 649 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:10,960 It's a double edged sword. 650 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,520 It can be a double edged sword. 651 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,520 So true. 652 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:19,800 It is super useful to solve these cases and put some of these monsters away who otherwise... 653 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:25,080 He would have died, the Golden State Killer, without ever have been found out. 654 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:32,720 Well in May 2015, the results from Dr. Wertheimer's DNA sample came back and it was not a match 655 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,560 to any of Gacy's victims, but it was a match to that young male who died of the multiple 656 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,280 gunshot wounds in San Francisco in 1979. 657 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:48,520 This is Andy Drath, her half brother, and she had not seen him in 36 years when they 658 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,840 discovered who he was. 659 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:50,840 Oh wow. 660 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,360 Well, let's talk about Andy for just a moment. 661 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,920 He was initially raised by a single mother who eventually married and had a baby girl 662 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,880 who was Willa, Andy's half sister. 663 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:00,880 Goodness. 664 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,880 Love that name by the way. 665 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,880 I know. 666 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,880 That's so sweet. 667 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,960 Well, unfortunately Andy's mom passed away when he was very young and he was sent away 668 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,560 to live with his grandfather. 669 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,960 Now Andy apparently did not take his mother's death very well because he suffered from a 670 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,200 lot of problems while he was growing up as he was getting older. 671 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,680 I can't imagine losing a parent at that age that again, I've never been in that situation, 672 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,520 but I can imagine if, especially if you're close. 673 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:29,520 The only parent too. 674 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,520 But the only parent. 675 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,520 Exactly. 676 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,640 That's what I was thinking when I was reviewing this this morning. 677 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,280 I was like, oh, that poor child. 678 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,280 I know. 679 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,800 It was essentially an orphan at that point. 680 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:46,060 Well Andy's grandfather was unable to manage Andy's troublesome behavior as he got older. 681 00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:50,120 So when he was 14 years old, Andy's grandfather put him in foster care. 682 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,440 He just couldn't handle him anymore. 683 00:29:52,440 --> 00:30:00,140 By June, 1979, Andy was 16 years old and actively attempting to get guardianship transferred 684 00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:02,920 over to California at the time that he disappeared. 685 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,980 So I'm thinking I was not able to find any information on this. 686 00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:09,160 Was he trying to locate his dad? 687 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,360 I couldn't find any articles in that, but if he was trying to get guardianship, that's 688 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,680 all I can kind of assume. 689 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,200 I don't like to assume too much. 690 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:22,040 Now here's another thought and I don't know he could have possibly run away, told his 691 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,580 sister he was going to get guardianship and just run away from foster care. 692 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,680 You guys hear about those stories as well. 693 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,440 Well Lord knows what happened to him in foster care too. 694 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,480 I mean it's just a horrible sad situation. 695 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,200 You hear horrible stories of foster care in general, but especially in the 60s, 70s, 80s. 696 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,200 Oh yeah. 697 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:45,760 Well back in June, 1979, when Andy was discovered in California, several tissue samples were 698 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,200 collected and preserved during his autopsy. 699 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:55,040 The medical examiner also took Andy's dental records, plus made note of a little tattoo 700 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:00,680 that he had reading Andy, which was later identified by his sister Willa. 701 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,800 So that was how he was identified later. 702 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:10,840 And in this instance, Andy was ruled out as one of John Wayne Gacy's victims, but it was 703 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,800 Gacy's case that helped to identify him when Sheriff Dart made his appeal to the public. 704 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:17,800 Wow. 705 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,960 She came forward because of that. 706 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:20,960 Yeah. 707 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:21,960 Yeah. 708 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,960 Amazing. 709 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:23,960 I know. 710 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:24,960 I mean, it was cool. 711 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:25,960 Hail Mary, like, hey, maybe it is. 712 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:26,960 Who knows? 713 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:27,960 The stars lined up though. 714 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:28,960 I mean, it was- 715 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:29,960 They did. 716 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,920 I have goosebumps. 717 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,600 And this is why I brought Gacy into this for just a second, because if it weren't for Sheriff 718 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,840 Dart, poor Andy would still probably be number 89. 719 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:41,840 Yeah, exactly. 720 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:42,840 Absolutely. 721 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:43,840 Yeah. 722 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,560 After receiving closure on her brother's disappearance, that's the word I'm going to use. 723 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:53,680 I don't particularly like it, but in this instance, this is when Willa did come forward 724 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,520 to say, hey, if you do have missing people or missing family members, please consider 725 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,880 going and submitting your DNA to CODIS. 726 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,920 You can at least get an answer to find out if they are deceased or not. 727 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:05,920 Yeah. 728 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,920 And I definitely see her point. 729 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:07,920 Yeah. 730 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:08,920 Yeah. 731 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:15,560 Well, since Sheriff Dart reopened the Gacy case in 2011, several victims have been identified 732 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:20,880 and not all of them were even related, just like with Andy Draft. 733 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,360 Not all of them were related to the Gacy case, several more family members came forward, 734 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,200 just like Willa had done. 735 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,760 Five additional cases of missing persons were solved by locating them alive and well, reuniting 736 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,360 them with their families. 737 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,320 And there's no mention as to the circumstances of why they went missing or anything like 738 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,320 that that's irrelevant. 739 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,200 It's just basically, I'm thrilled these cases got called. 740 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,200 They're alive and well. 741 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,200 Absolutely. 742 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,200 Right. 743 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,200 That's an interesting point, because if you... 744 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,680 Obviously, you've done a lot of research on cases in that time period. 745 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,840 How many in the 70s, especially in California, did these kids go hitchhiking and missing 746 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:56,840 and the cops didn't do anything? 747 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:57,840 They're like, they just ran away. 748 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:58,840 Yes. 749 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,080 How many times did you hear all those cases when you're talking about any of those killers 750 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,080 in the second and even think of them? 751 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,080 Any of the 70s killers in California? 752 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,080 Yeah. 753 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:13,200 Our Ed Kemper case recently, they interviewed a bunch of policemen today that were policemen 754 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:18,600 back then and they were begging kids on college campuses because that's how you got from point 755 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,240 A to point B, you hitchhike. 756 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,480 They were supplying shuttles and they're like, you got to stop doing this. 757 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,560 And when all the parents would go to the cops, they're like, my kid wouldn't do this. 758 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,120 They're like, hey, this is what kids do. 759 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,440 They'll show up. 760 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,080 They still say that today. 761 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,480 So I did an episode on Brandon Swanson. 762 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,760 I think he was at a party and he was probably 19 years old. 763 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:39,760 Same thing. 764 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,200 They're all about the police saying, ah, they're old enough, they'll come home, just give them 765 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,200 24 hours. 766 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,840 I think there's laws in place now that basically say that, hey, we can't wait that 24 hours, 767 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,320 especially if it's a younger child or even a young adult. 768 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,040 Definitely if it's a younger child. 769 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,040 Yeah. 770 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,160 There's certain circumstances depending on the age and what's going on. 771 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:05,040 I also recently, because I asked somebody about it and they said that it varies from- 772 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,040 Well, state to state is different. 773 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,040 State to state. 774 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,040 And it's also situational. 775 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:13,840 There are states that will make you wait 24 hours to see if they turn up. 776 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,400 And it's just that it's got to stop. 777 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,960 I know Texas is not one of those states because I can tell you just driving to work all the 778 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,880 time, you have those billboards up and the alerts are amber alerts. 779 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:24,880 Yes. 780 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,360 It blasts it all over you as soon as they happen. 781 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,040 They say that a lot of the criminals that take these people, they turn themselves in 782 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,600 very quickly because they see their names up there, their license plate number up there. 783 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,240 Oh yeah, they get paranoid because they see all their information being blasted everywhere. 784 00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:40,240 They get punished. 785 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:41,240 I'm going to get caught anyway. 786 00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:42,240 So I just need to- 787 00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:43,240 And we need more of that. 788 00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:46,160 We can't wait 24 hours, especially with children. 789 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,720 And we need to listen to the families. 790 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:50,800 If a mom or a dad or a brother- 791 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,800 They know the kid does. 792 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:52,800 They know their kid. 793 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,480 If I know that my kid's not going to run away, they're- 794 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,360 Don't tell me that this is what kids do and my kid doesn't do this kind of thing. 795 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,360 Absolutely. 796 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:02,560 I mean, you know your own kids. 797 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:03,560 Yeah. 798 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,440 I think you can judge law enforcement in a lot of these cases being ex-law enforcement 799 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,800 because there's so many missteps are made that would have prevented murders and all 800 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,800 these horrific crimes down the line if they had just done their job at the beginning. 801 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,680 It's one of the most frustrating things dealing with true crime. 802 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,520 And I'm sure you've come across those. 803 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,120 Whereas if the cops had done the right thing on the first victim or the first incident, 804 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,800 like, okay, how many times is this? 805 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,320 There's kids that were murderers when they were 16, 17 and they're like, eh, they were 806 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,320 formed at 19. 807 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,320 How is that possible? 808 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,440 And their original record is expunged. 809 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,640 Oh my gosh, that was with temper. 810 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,840 That's the Jasmine Richard single that drives me nuts. 811 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:38,840 It just- 812 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,560 Youngest multiple murder in Canada's history is free at 23, not even on parole. 813 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,160 Makes you want to spit nails. 814 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,160 Yeah. 815 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,560 So back to the good news here. 816 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,480 Five additional cases of missing persons were solved by locating additional missing persons, 817 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,360 reuniting them with their families. 818 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,360 Two more missing person cases were solved, but authorities discovered this a little bit 819 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,360 too late. 820 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,200 They had already died of natural causes over the years, but it just goes to show you that 821 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,480 as persistent as they were, they actually got the closure that families were looking 822 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,480 for. 823 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,140 Four unrelated cases were also solved, including that of Andy Draff. 824 00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:19,320 So ultimately it's somewhat bittersweet to me. 825 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,760 I hate saying his name. 826 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,720 Gacy's case helped to solve all of these other cases. 827 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,760 I was going to say, you got to look at it. 828 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,840 There was some good from that monster. 829 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:29,840 Yes. 830 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:30,840 Because- 831 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,280 Not from him, but from his case of being a monster, somebody else looked at it and was 832 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,480 like, maybe I can fix or find something from it. 833 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,720 And there's some good came out of it. 834 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:39,480 He wasn't going to offer up the information. 835 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,480 Yeah, absolutely. 836 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:46,800 One thing about him I always said is, if you watch interviews with Bundy, he at least, 837 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:53,760 or Kemper, you can say horrible people, but they had a charm where you could see how you 838 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,200 would fall for that and feel safe in their presence. 839 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,360 And they all have that same temperament or persona or something. 840 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,160 They do something about it. 841 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,720 But me, Gacy, just looks like, or would he speak- 842 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:09,720 Like Pogo the Clown. 843 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:10,720 Yeah. 844 00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:11,720 He's just insulting. 845 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:12,720 He's demeaning. 846 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,720 Awful. 847 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:14,720 Yeah. 848 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:16,760 Well, we don't like him. 849 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:23,200 Well, if you guys have heard enough of my little dash series here, you'll know that 850 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,200 that's it. 851 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,200 I'm done. 852 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,200 That's the story of Andy Draff. 853 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:27,200 That's a good story though. 854 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:34,440 That was amazing how the two correlated and how we could look at something positive to 855 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,640 come from such a reprehensible human being and situation. 856 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,560 So that was amazing. 857 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,320 Well, if our listeners have any information or believe that your relatives were a victim 858 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:55,000 to John Wayne Gacy, please call the Cook County Sheriff's Office at 708-865-6244. 859 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,240 Well, Courtney and Patrick, I loved being here with you today. 860 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:01,520 This was so great. 861 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,480 I love meeting new people. 862 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:04,640 You guys are amazing. 863 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,480 I highly recommend Evil Pudding to our listeners here. 864 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,840 And I try to look everybody up and to be honest with you, I can't find a ton of information 865 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,160 other than the internet taking me directly to your podcast or your Instagram and things 866 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,160 like that. 867 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,960 So I did find your Instagram at Evil Pudding podcast. 868 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,280 I also found Twitter at Evil Pudding pod plus stream wherever it is that you guys get your 869 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,280 podcasts. 870 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,400 You definitely need to go check out Patrick and Courtney at Evil Pudding. 871 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,400 Right. 872 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:35,400 Love to have you. 873 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,840 Be sure to write in and let me know what you think of DB2F the dash. 874 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,360 Click on the links in our show notes to find out more about this podcast, your hosts and 875 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,080 our social medias. 876 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:52,440 If you are a true crime podcaster and want a chance to highlight your own podcast, email 877 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,680 me at dying to be found at gmail.com for more information. 878 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,000 Thanks for listening to dying to be found. 879 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:04,020 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 880 00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:09,720 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Pinterest at dying to be found. 881 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:15,600 You can access our website, email, social media and storyline request form by clicking 882 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,380 on our link tree account found in our show notes. 883 00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:23,920 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at buy me a coffee.com slash dying 884 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,120 to be found spelled just like you see it on our logo. 885 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,800 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. 886 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,880 Or if you'd like a sticker with that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you 887 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,260 get your podcasts. 888 00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:39,160 We will talk to you all next week. 889 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:52,400 Bye.