The history of human cruelty is long and brutal.
And on our show, we cover all of it, one subject at a time.
I'm Kevin Young.
And I'm Dan Hergen.
And we host a podcast called Torture.
We'll discuss the methods, devices, and the people that implemented them,
from ancient times to modern day.
Link Chi to waterboarding, Nero to Dennis Reiler,
and everything in between, including the pop culture they influenced.
Also, food.
And lots of Dungeons and Dragons.
Lots, lots of Dungeons and Dragons.
Episodes are out now, and new episodes are released every other Sunday.
So like, follow, and subscribe to us on all podcast platforms, including YouTube.
Follow us on Instagram and Twitter at TorturePod,
and email us at torturpod at gmail.com.
But most importantly, listen to Torture,
a history of human cruelty, wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions
on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences,
due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host from the True Crime Podcast, Dying to be Found.
Welcome to The Dash, which is a collection of short true crime stories,
interviews with other podcasts, or interviews with other people.
And generally, a way to get you through your morning routine or commute.
Sometimes you just get me, but other times I get together with other
podcasters and talk true crime.
And today is one of those days, because I have Kevin and Dan from Torture Podcast
to enlighten us on all sorts of things from the dark ages.
Hi guys.
Hello.
Welcome.
We appreciate you being here.
Thank you.
So much for taking your time out of your day.
I'm so glad that you were both on board for doing this.
Yeah, it's our pleasure.
Happy to be here.
I understand there is a little bit of difference between all of us because
we're all spread out.
So I do appreciate we're all in different time zones.
Yeah.
It's a quarter past three.
Midwest, Dan's Ireland.
We've done this before.
We had a D and D thing going on where we were spread all over Ireland,
Canada, and the United States.
So we're kind of used to doing the whole trying to figure out five minutes in a day
to everybody can get together.
So absolutely.
I get that because I'm kind of in the same boat with you guys.
So I'm going to tell you upfront, I'm very fascinated with your podcast.
It's all about these horrific things that I never thought I would listen to every week.
I love that era that you guys have as far as what is it?
The Renaissance, the
dark ages, what is it?
Well, I mean, the majority of tour, what do you think torture?
You automatically think medieval England, you know, that's kind of one of the first
things, but it spans from the beginning of human history, recorded history all the
way up till today, there's torture throughout all of it.
So we don't want to just focus on one section of time because obviously that was one of
the most horrific times we get into some stuff where, you know, we just covered rats
and they did it way back then and they, you know, just a few years ago, we're doing it
in New Jersey.
So, I mean, it spans all of human history.
That's why we say it's a history of human cruelty because that's what it is.
It's what we're known best for, I think.
That's why aliens don't show up here.
They look at our history, they go, oh, no, no.
And they fly away because that is a perfect answer because if you knew my sister Beth,
she is all into the UFOs.
So Beth, if you're listening, that's why we don't see UFOs very often.
Because humans are cruel and I honestly have no idea how they get away with it time and
time again.
It's just part of humanity.
But you guys do an amazing job in your research and your podcasts and other aspects that you,
of course, break things up.
And to me, when I'm listening to you guys, it's really more of a talk show.
Like back in the day, Dan and I were talking, Kevin, before you came on board and we were
talking about the 1980s.
And back then they had a lot of talk show hosts.
So that's kind of the feel I get from your show, too.
It's not always specifically about your storylines, but you put a lot more into it.
Well, some of the stuff doesn't have a lot of content like what we're going to be covered
when I'll have for you later today.
Not a whole lot of content behind it.
So we really got to fill the time.
And when we started this, when we started this, it was Dan's like, so I'm just kind
of like your Ed McMahon to your Johnny Carson.
I was like, if that's what you want to say, that's fine with me.
I love Ed McMahon.
There you go.
And I'm glad you said that because I had sent you the questions ahead of time, just so you
guys could prepare.
And one of my questions to you is that honestly, Kevin, you come across as that talk show host.
So my question is, have you ever been in the entertainment industry because you come across
that well-versed and your style of communication?
Do you come from communication industry?
I do not know nowhere even near it.
I am in the BFE out in the middle of Illinois.
I have no connection to any entertainment at all.
Mom was a nurse.
Dad worked at a lumber yard.
I have no connection with the entertainment industry.
My wife and I had a couple of podcasts before you didn't hear them.
I promise you, you didn't listen to them because nobody did.
I did.
So you did?
I listened to some.
I got to know you.
I tried to support you and I decided to listen to some.
So I was really quiet as a kid and I kind of found more of a voice as I got older because
I stopped giving a shit.
Once you're pushing 40, it's like, I don't care anymore.
So I just kind of say whatever I want and it's worked out.
But I think Kevin kind of has this real midnight hour at my time drive radio post kind of volley
going on.
But dad has some entertainment in him.
I've worked in music for, yeah, playing music, being a musician for God.
I started painting with a car.
I had a show last night.
Yeah, it was really good.
Yeah, it was good fun.
Lots of positivity afterwards.
It was great fun.
Yeah, it's not really something else for me to say about it.
We had the place rocking and rolling, as you'd say.
Dan, can we look you up to see anything on film or in your music industry?
There's not really much of me out there in that way.
I kind of more just playing in like in cover bands and playing for friends and stuff like
that, though.
So I have like an Instagram that I'm trying to get going at the moment.
That's based on around guitar related stuff.
That's called What's All the Fuzz About is the name of that.
Oh, that's cool.
You could see him play on his YouTube a little bit.
I'm starting that now.
Yeah, which is the same name.
I wonder the What's All the Fuzz About names.
A man with many talents.
One or two.
All right.
So hey, I wanted to give you guys just a little backstory.
I had gone to St. Augustine, Florida.
Have you been there, Kevin?
I've been to Florida a few times when I was a kid.
So I don't know if I've been to St. Augustine or not.
It was usually just directly to Disney World and directly back to Illinois.
So I don't know how much of that I actually was through.
Okay.
So this is one of the oldest, I believe it might even be the oldest
establishment in the United States.
And it's got an old fort there.
It's really cool.
It's very, I don't know, it's very historical.
And if you have not been there, there's a really cool torture chamber museum there.
And yeah, I ended up in there.
Holy cow.
Okay.
So I got two options there.
I could either go through, get a set of headphones and then go to each station
and listen to all the human cruelty things that people did to each other back in the day,
including the rats.
Or I could go and look under a microscope and look at these teeny tiny little figurines
that people would make and you could not see them unless it's under a microscope.
Of course, which one do you think I picked?
Headphones or microscope?
Headphones.
Honestly, I would have gone with the microscope.
Okay.
So I went with torture, which was, it really took us about two hours to get through it.
It was really fascinating.
I was going to say, sorry, I was going to say, Kevin, you can't turn around as the host of
a torture podcast and say that you would willingly look down through a microscope
at a tiny toy instead of listening to more education.
He just needs to decompress a little bit.
If I can do a podcast about little things that you can only see through a microscope,
maybe I'd do that.
I don't know.
Well, after we went through, they offered us the options.
So really I got the best of both worlds because they let us go look at those things,
which was fascinating too.
But torture on the other hand was like, wow, people are really, really cruel.
So yeah, so I'm curious to know, first of all, how did you two meet?
Because you're in different countries and how do you know each other?
So true Canadian.
Yeah.
They're our favorite Canadian.
Okay.
So there's a long version of a short version.
I get long winded, so I'll try to keep it compressed.
Dan knows I get long winded.
Pretty much what it boils down to is I wanted to start a D&D podcast.
Dan and I are both huge D&D guys.
I want to start a D&D podcast.
So I put it out on Facebook.
I was walking around at my job during COVID.
Nobody was there.
So I was just, you know, dittling around.
Put it on some of the podcasts, Facebook pages I was on.
It was like, if anybody is starting a D&D comedy podcast and they need somebody, let me know.
Okay.
I wanted to start one.
I wanted to be on one.
And I'm like, okay, I'll put this up.
I'll check in an hour or two.
I'll probably get one or two responses.
With five minutes, my phone explodes.
Wow.
With responses.
I mean, it was from, oh yeah, I would like to start one.
It's like, I'm not looking to do.
I had to reiterate to people.
It's like, I don't want to do anything.
I don't want to edit.
I don't want to research.
I don't want to write.
I don't want to DM.
I'll do what is.
I just want to get on, play, get off.
That's it.
That's all I want to do.
Because I was still in the process of working with my wife on the other podcasts.
Like, I don't have time for all this bullshit.
I just want to play.
And of course I get more responses about, you know, oh, you can't just start a podcast.
Like, pretty sure you can, but okay.
Have you got a microphone?
I'm laughing because that's what I do.
Check.
That's literally what you do.
That's how they start.
You just start one.
It's handy when people hit records when you want to start as well.
Yeah.
You get a microphone, you press record, you're good.
Got to remember to press record though.
That's, that's key.
That's the big thing.
No rule and rule to starting a podcast.
That's the big thing.
Press record.
Anyway, all of a sudden I get this, and everybody else is responding just on Facebook.
All of a sudden I get this message on Messenger.
Hey, are you serious about this?
And it's from a man who, if you've listened to our podcast, you've heard his name many times.
A man named Phil Better gets ahold of me and says, yeah, the award winning podcast mogul,
Phil Better.
This was before the awards, before the mogul.
He was still just Phil.
Regular Phil.
Not quite better.
Yeah.
And he's like, are you serious about this?
I was like, yeah, I'm dead serious.
He's like, hold on.
And then I wait about two minutes and all of a sudden this new name comes up, says,
here's our DM and it's Dan Horrigan.
And I'm like, okay.
And then we brought on some, some other people.
We started, we met up and took a while.
We finally started playing.
And of course that all fell apart.
That's how Dan and I met.
It was from a Canadian.
How I got to know Phil was kind of funny as well though, because what happened was my brother
wanted to, because he got involved in this kind of podcast group, kind of got to know Phil through
a Facebook group and the two of them became friends.
Phil came over here.
I didn't know him at the time.
And my brother was like, oh, you should come out drinking with us because this guy's here.
And I couldn't because it was halfway across the country.
And basically I ended up getting to know Phil through playing Call of Duty as a result,
because he jumped in with the guys and then we got chatting to him.
And then next thing then it was for like, oh, so you like Dungeons and Dragons.
He goes, I always wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons.
And that was like probably the day I'd say before Kevin put up his post because it was
literally the day after I first ever met the Phil.
I liked Dungeons and Dragons.
A text from him.
Hey, you want to do this?
Yeah, cool.
Okay.
And that's usually how it is with guys, because, you know, in my aspect, we have to think about
things and then organize and you know, you get it.
Yeah.
Guys just kind of fall into it like, oh, you like the same thing I do.
We're best friends.
That is a cool story though, because it was obviously meant to be, but that's a really
great story.
So how do you guys balance life, podcasting and the time difference between you guys?
Difficult.
That's the 20 million dollar question.
I work, we get kind of lucky because Dan works days and I work night.
So we're pretty much, so we're working not exactly the same time, but there's some overlap
of when I'm working and he's working and when he's off and I'm off.
I come home and go to sleep.
Usually, we usually record about 11 o'clock my time, which is about five o'clock his time.
That's average.
I mean, sometimes it's before, sometimes after.
So I come home, get changed, say hi to the wife, to the dog, push the kids out the door
of school and go straight to bed, sleep for a few hours, get up, get everything ready.
We record and then I lay in bed for like another hour and a half after that, trying to, you
know, come down from the high of talking about people being mutilated.
And then finally I pass out.
I sleep for the rest of the evening and then get up and do whatever I need to do.
So do you guys have like a set day of the week that you guys record?
Or is it just whenever you can manage your schedules?
No.
Yeah, usually when we can manage.
For me, it's one of these things where I have to try and manage my time massively, where
like I started doing this thing where I can start work at different times, but I have
to do a set amount of hours.
So I started starting as early as I possibly can because I might finish at around 4 p.m.
So then I have like an hour to an hour and a half or so of time time, which is usually
when we try and squeeze podcasts in or I get my guitar practice in or trying to get some
recording done and stuff like that.
And then it's literally just trying to base it around family life then for times between
the two.
We'll see if, you know, I might have something on randomly on a Tuesday or on a Wednesday.
And like last week, we were texting each other about doing that last Bratz episode.
I was literally like a last minute thing.
I've turned around and been like, oh, God, we need to sort day because it's the week.
I wasn't I was literally available one, two days at most.
And we just happened to have a single day that we overlapped.
That's kind of the only way of doing it.
Really.
Yeah.
It's usually a Tuesday or a Wednesday when we get the record, which I mean, it gives me
a couple of days to get everything edited down and ready to go, ready to post for Sunday.
But we've got it.
We've got it pretty close before.
I mean, we've.
Oh, yes.
It's been me up Saturday, like 1130.
Posting it for Sunday night.
I mean, we've cut it.
We've got it close, which we also have to schedule the record.
Like if we're a better organized, you'd imagine we record, let's say, the Tuesday
after the episode release.
So is that you have the week and a half or more or two weeks?
Well, we we had it planned out so well in the beginning.
It's like, let's record a bunch of episodes, get them ready to go.
That way we never get, you know, we never fall behind.
And then we we recorded a bunch of episodes.
Put them out and then we didn't record for a long time.
Right.
Sure.
We're getting close.
We got to record.
Yeah, I agree because I actually cut it close, really close because I drop it midnight and
I think I got done editing this week at 1130 PM.
So but then I thought it would be a really good idea to throw out an extra podcast every
week.
So what was I thinking?
That's why you guys are so good.
So what was I thinking? That's why you guys are here.
So it is manageable.
But I'm doing what you guys are doing is recording ahead and trying to stay that way.
But my schedule is pretty good because I don't have kids at home.
I have lots of time off just because of what I do for a living.
So I get it done.
Beat me personally.
I can get it done.
But I do run into challenges like last night.
I didn't want to do podcasting.
I wanted to just veg.
And that's what I did.
But I'm thinking, oh, gosh, it's not going to get me behind for next week.
So yeah, it's not it's just a balance.
You got to figure it all out.
But so I mentioned that you guys have a very unique approach to your podcast and the name
to me says it all.
So what does torture mean to you?
And what is it that fascinates you about the different types of way that people torture
each other over time?
The short answer is it's funny, it's really funny at times it is.
You know, it's kind of like the whole thing of you only watch videos of people falling
over or getting hit.
Oh, yeah.
That's all funny.
You'll find those funny.
And sometimes these things can can be so horrible.
They're actually kind of funny.
Like when you're watching movies.
Yeah, it's like I can't remember the name of that new movie.
Just a trailer out for that film.
I think it's based in Finland or something during World War Two and it's a bit in that
where a guy gets blown up by a landmine and because he throws it, it hits him in the head
and blows up.
He turns and that's really funny looking like the way he gets killed.
It's things like that.
You know, that's that's the way I look.
That's probably why I'm doing this show.
How about you, Kevin?
Well, I asked Dan to do the show because I was terrified of doing it by myself.
I would be scarred for life.
So I needed to bring somebody on to make it.
And decompress a little bit.
Yeah.
Honestly, the whole thing started was because I was listening to an episode of last podcast
on the left and they were talking about a guy getting tortured.
And it was one of those where, well, we'll let your imagination just use the rope,
you know, figure out what he did or because they have a few episodes that have torture in them,
but they don't tell you what they did.
It's like, well, we're not going to get into it.
It's like, get into it.
I want to know what happened.
I want to know what these people had to go through.
It's not and it's not like, oh, you're so morbid.
You want to hear about it?
Because these people had to go through it.
The least we could do is have to sit and hear about it.
Like your episode where they would tar people with a hat.
Yeah, pitch capping.
Yes.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, that was rough.
Yeah.
I like to speak to my ancestors when I say yes.
The name came just, I wanted something sleek and you hear the word torture.
You're like, okay, I kind of have an idea what this podcast is going to be.
The inspiration from that actually came from Criminal, the Criminal podcast.
Oh, yeah.
Just criminal.
It's got that sleek white background with the black letters on.
That's where I got the inspiration for the first logo we have.
Okay.
It's black with a white letter.
That's a great logo.
But you know exactly what you're getting.
You're like, you're not going to be a criminal and then it's going to be a baking show.
You know what you're getting into.
So it's similar to.
Why call it torture?
Go ahead.
I was going to say it's very similar to an awful lot of the devices that we've talked about as well.
Like where we say that it's the simplicity and the directness of what it is that makes people turn
around and just know exactly what it is.
It's kind of like, like I said about the head crusher that we covered at one stage.
It's very obvious what that's supposed to do.
Yes.
And it's so direct and that's what makes it kind of like, oh God.
And that's the same thing with like with the name as well.
It's literally just straight up in front of your face.
Exactly what it means.
Yes.
There's no question.
And it's this thing where, so you look in the past and you see all the horrible things we did to
one another and everybody wants to think, okay, we're doing better now.
We're better people.
We don't do that type of stuff.
But then you look into it and you're like, do we just cover rats?
What a breast dripper is the perfect example.
So you hear about, you hear about, yeah, I know exactly.
Yeah, I cringe every time I hear that.
But thank you for being so descriptive when you described what happens.
Right.
Well, so you hear about the breast dripper and you think, oh, the stuff that these women
back then had to go through.
And then you read about it and you find out women over in the Middle East are still
getting this done to them now in 2023.
So we haven't gotten as better as we think we have.
And honestly, the only way you learn from history is, the only reason, the only way you
don't repeat history is if you learn from it.
And I'm not saying that our podcast is going to make a big dent in that, but it's something
that everybody's take into account that we're going to keep doing the same shit to one another
unless we learn from it and stop.
Absolutely.
Then we'll run out of material then.
I mean, yeah, from the museum that I went to, you still have a lot of content.
So I'm sure you'll find something and other cultures too.
I mean, every culture is different.
So do you guys have a favorite episode?
It depends on what way you mean, favorite.
Like, that's I think the most kind of striking one, 100% has to be the Nan King series is
the most.
The numbers.
Yeah.
The GB.
Especially the second episode.
Yeah, that was the only one I haven't listened back on.
Did you ever listen to it, Dan?
I never listened back on it still, no, because it was just too much.
It's a lot.
I listened to all of them, like, and I'm not sure which one I prefer out of the rest of
them.
The one that we didn't, except we had to record twice.
It was really funny.
And so without lying, I forgot to hit the record button.
And I came inside.
My wife's like, how'd your recording go?
I said, it was fantastic.
It was maybe up to that point, the best episode we had done.
I mean, this episode alone could get us dozens of followers.
So there's one problem.
She goes, what is it?
I said, I forgot to record.
Oh, man.
She goes, Kevin Young.
I was like, yeah, I know.
And we had to go back and do it again.
And the episode ended up being good, not as good as it could have been because.
The element of surprise was no longer there.
We're going over it all again.
It's like we rehearsed it.
So yeah, and trying to make the same jokes that were very obvious.
There's a couple of moments in there where we're talking.
There's things that I said the first time that I couldn't just crowbar in the second
time because it wouldn't have been funny.
So it sounded scripted.
Yeah, yeah.
I didn't want it to sound scripted.
Yes.
And then we couldn't do it because and then I'm listening back on it.
And it was really funny because I listened back on the episode.
It's like, oh, I really should have said that to this guy.
He's like, I wasn't quick enough to pick up on it.
And then I remember, oh, and I did say it in the first recording, except I couldn't say it.
Except recording.
Now, they all kind of hold a special place in my heart.
Ling-Chi might be my favorite just because I got to watch Dan squirm the most during that one.
He's got a big problem with the slow cutting.
Oh, yeah.
He was he was really like he was really like through a lot of that episode.
So that might that might be my favorite one that we've.
Do you guys listen to any other types of genres?
Kevin go first, sir.
Obviously, I listen to a lot of true crime, you know, the morbid type of stuff.
But apart from that, I mean, it's a little bit of every I listen to a lot of D&D podcasts.
I listen to improv stuff.
I used to listen to a few political shows, but I'm the type of person that I start arguing
with the person on the other side of the podcast and it brings my heart, you know,
my blood pressure up.
So I had to stop listening to those.
I used to listen to a lot of like religious, like atheist type podcast.
And that also got my blood boiling.
So I had to stop listening to those.
So you narrowed it down to torture.
Yeah.
True crime and some comedy and D&D.
So if I'm not listening to like a Dateline or a last podcast on the left,
I'm listening to Critical Role or Dun Duns and Dragons or something.
Yeah.
Dungeons and Daddies.
Dan, how about you?
Dungeons and Daddies.
Yeah.
I've a strange thing to say.
So like I didn't listen to an awful lot of paranormal say stuff before this,
before we started doing this.
But like very first podcast I listened to, I dropped in the deep end with Serial and
then Shit Town and then kind of went from there.
And it's mainly primarily music related stuff at the moment because I'm also trying to get
a vibe at what to do and not to do for my own because I want to start my own.
Yeah.
But and then let me see, because I had to double check that to open up like things like
I listen to some Dungeons and Dragons ones, but I don't listen to as many of them anymore.
But I like listening to things like the kind of radio play style ones like the
oh, what was the zombie one?
Yeah.
We're alive.
Yeah.
That's one of the best things I've ever listened to in my life.
I absolutely love that.
But yeah, it's just things like that.
Of course, the World War II podcast, well, it's a better show.
Just things like that, like and ourselves.
But yeah, I can listen to things like this one's called like the guitar knobs is one of them.
And I only discovered one way called broken record is the music one.
That's all to Rick Rubin, who's one of the more famous kind of music producers out there.
And everybody would actually know stuff done by him.
So I was kind of really chuffed and found that.
And it's typically what I'd be listening to.
Yeah.
So very diverse.
That's great.
Lots of stuff.
What keeps you guys up at night?
Oh, well, I mean, I work at night.
So I do what you're saying.
I mean, kids worried about, you know, kid stuff.
Money is obviously, I think the biggest one for most people, especially nowadays.
Money problems keep you up.
Oh, gosh.
Yeah.
Let's see.
What's the next guitar handle I should buy?
There you go.
Am I putting too much on myself?
Am I going to be able to get around to all this BS that I want to get done?
And running through Dungeons and Dragons campaigns alone in my head.
I do.
Who am I going to build next?
What are they going to sound like?
What am I going to do when this happens?
All that type of stuff.
So money mostly, but nothing important after that.
Yeah.
In the whole scheme of things, money just is not as important as everybody thinks it
is these days.
But I get where you're coming from.
Absolutely.
So, Dan, anything else that keeps you up?
It's very similar to Kevin's, except for from the D&D standpoint, I tend to think back on
decisions I made as a DM.
Hey, I shouldn't have done this.
I shouldn't have done that.
But yeah, no, it's very similar.
Okay.
And again, yeah, aside from my snoring and the thinking of guitar stuff after.
Well, I'm going to throw a little different question at you guys.
I always do pretty much standard interview questions, but I just like to throw an extra
one out there.
If you were to be a guest actor in any movie, it doesn't matter what genre, what would it
be?
Who was your character?
It's a very, very tough question.
Dan, you want to go first?
I went first last time.
I have a couple that I actually I discussed this for a short while with my wife and we
couldn't decide.
And Shawshank Redemption, 100% has to be up there.
And that was actually suggested by my wife.
And it was a very good suggestion because you get to work on one of the greatest actors
in the world.
Oh, yeah.
That is a phenomenal movie.
Yeah.
From a nerdy perspective and the stuff that typically into Blade Runner would probably
be one of them up there like to be one of the detectives looking for looking for replicants
or something, you know, pretty cool.
Yeah.
Cool.
See, I would I would figure you would have said Henchman in John Wick just so you could
get killed by Keanu at some point.
Yeah, I'd rather just go for it.
Let's go for a drink with him or something.
I don't know.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
He's a pretty cool guy.
I think he'd probably be easy going and pretty good drinking partner out there.
So, Kevin, how about you?
Honestly, I would like to voice act in any list of the show.
I'm horrible with accents, but I'm really good at doing them badly and doing weird voices.
So doing maybe getting into like, yeah, like a voice acting thing for maybe a Pixar movie
or Sony movie or something, anything where I could be the villain.
Nothing specific.
Just villains so much more fun.
The hero has to be morally just kind of above everybody.
Even the anti heroes have to be.
They have a they have a line they can't cross.
Villains don't have a line.
Complete freedom.
Yes.
Whatever you want.
That was a more interesting voice to though.
Typical hero voice.
I have a perfect podcast for you then, Kevin, which is I hear voices.
Listen to it.
Seriously, look it up.
It's voice actors, it's famous cartoon voice actors and to get other famous voice actors
on to interview them.
Right up your alley.
I forgot I was going to say to you before.
Also Sub Zero, if I had to pick a character, Sub Zero, if they ever did another Mortal
Kombat, because he was my favorite, I always wanted to be Sub Zero or any zombie, just
regular zombie in a movie.
Just dress me up as a zombie.
Let me walk around, shoot me in the head.
That's fine, too.
I'm good with that.
You could probably come down to Georgia because it's a really big area where they do a lot
of the the walking dead cinematography these days.
And honestly, the town that my kids grew up in, they have a lot of the zombie shows out
there.
So if there's a casting call, I'll let you know.
I actually thought of another film, Kevin.
I thought of another film, Too Fast, Too Furious.
No, not too fast.
Too weird.
I want to be in the fast, too furious.
Not the best.
I'm not family enough to be the fastest.
No, that's for me.
Just stand there randomly gears.
I thought you meant for me.
I was like, yeah, because yeah, because you can you drive a manual gearbox?
Sure.
Oh, you can.
OK, that's cool.
That's always very, very typical thing over the state.
The Americans, most people my age and drive a stick.
Yeah.
Most people my age and drive.
Yeah.
And I can, too, Dan.
So, you know, that's so true.
I know.
That's obviously just a stereotype across here then for yourselves that nobody can
nobody can drive stick.
It's always on to hate, you know, to drive stick.
No.
Yeah.
My sister taught me in Georgia, the hills are there everywhere.
And we went into a cul-de-sac one day and it was 45 minutes before I could even get
out of the cul-de-sac.
She wouldn't let me get out of there until I could drive up that hill.
And ever since then, I've been able to drive one.
So, yeah.
Nice.
OK.
Well, you guys, thank you so much.
Those were my questions about you and your torture podcast.
So next question is, where can we find you online?
I don't really put my personal stuff out there, but I'm on the socials for the show.
So if you just look up any of the social media or at torture pod or email,
torturepod.gmail.com.
So that's been one of the issues we've had with the podcast is getting people to interact
with us through social media or through email or stuff.
We've gotten a few, but not as many as we want.
So, you know, let us know what you think, even if you hate us, let us know what you
think and we give you a thanks.
They go, your show is disgusting and you two are horrible.
We'll be like, hey, we think the show's disgusting and we're both horrible too.
So welcome to the club.
Come on, talk to us.
Speak for yourself.
I think that's that goes across the board too, because I don't get a ton.
I'm starting to get a lot more interaction, but, you know, I've been doing this for more
than a year now and I'm just now starting to get some interaction in emails and things
like that.
So I don't think it's just you.
I think social media is just completely saturated with stuff.
You see, like that's the thing, like if I was looking the amount of people that I follow
on Instagram alone and how much of those I actually get to see and how many of those
are actually friends.
I get to see all of our stuff because I'm tagged in it all.
But if I didn't, if you didn't tag me and stuff, Kevin, then I don't know how much of
it I'll actually see is probably because all of our feeds are just filled constantly.
There's only so much you can see, which is a shame.
So again, yeah, it's about those people actively seeking it out at the times and stuff,
you know.
So, yep.
All right.
Well, thanks for introducing us to your torture podcast and giving us a glimpse of what we
can look forward to.
I understand that you are going to give us a glimpse of this in just a little while because
Kevin, you agreed you're going to give us a story.
I don't know if you have heard this, but we had a live laugh murder.
I did the host from, yeah, that was so good.
So we had that a couple of weeks ago and if our listeners have not had a chance to check
that out, it's episode number four of the Dash series of Dying to be Found.
And Kevin, I'm not going to lie.
I'm a little scared already, but I'm in it till the end.
All right.
Are you guys ready to dash into my little storyline today?
Yes, very much.
Okay.
It's a little bittersweet because I'm going to be talking about a group of childhood
friends and it's probably before your time, but there are some really good movies out
there.
Dan, before Kevin came on today, you and I were talking about the 80s era and I don't
know if you guys have seen those old movies Stand By Me or The Goonies, anything like that.
Oh yeah.
I love Stand By Me.
Great movie, but that's not anything to do what we're talking about today.
I just wanted to kind of give you a glimpse of how a group of friends came together in
the story that I'm about to start.
One other thing too, I had mentioned Stranger Things and that's so cool because all the
props that they do in the movie, everything is so 1980s all the way down to the home decor,
the cereal boxes, everything like that.
So I really love that sort of essence where you just go back in time a little bit.
So here is one question to lead into my storyline today.
I don't know how you guys are, but me personally, I keep a very small group of friends.
I think it's better that way.
Do you guys have a group of friends like that where you all have known each other for a
long time, maybe from childhood or just socially?
Do you have a really, really tight circle of friends?
No, personally, not really.
The thing was, oh, there's people I went to school with.
I don't go to school with them anymore.
I really don't have any desire to hang out with any of you.
I mean, I have people that I'm friendly with, that I see them and I'll be like, oh, hey,
what are you doing?
But honestly, I got my wife and I got my dog and I'm good.
I got Dan halfway across the world and that's all I need.
How about you, Dan?
Do you have childhood friends?
Yeah, yeah, I do.
Yeah, there's kind of a couple of different kind of social groups, if you get me, that
don't really cross over except for me in the middle of them.
But yeah, just kind of a group kind of like that.
All right.
Yeah, me too.
We're all on Facebook.
I still keep up with those friends.
But I mean, honestly, we don't talk a lot, but we do obviously see what each other posts.
And I think that's really cool.
But today we're going to be going back to a case that occurred back in 1966.
And it's a 17 year old boy named Danny Goldman, who was living as an only child in Surfside,
Florida with his parents.
Danny was taken from his home at gunpoint during the wee hours of the night and he was
never seen again.
So that's the direction we're headed today.
All right.
Around 430 in the morning on March 28, 1966, someone broke into the Goldman's house through
an unlocked sliding glass door.
Whoever this man was, he woke the entire family up, including Aaron Goldman, his wife Sally,
and their only son Danny.
And this intruder addressed Aaron and Sally by name and proceeded to tie everyone up and
demanded $10,000 in those wee early morning hours.
So 430 in the morning, a house intrusion, and then all of a sudden they're tied up and
demanding $10,000.
Just so you guys can kind of get in perspective on this, $10,000 in 1966 equals $90,000 US
$124 Canadian dollars or 76,000 pounds in today's currency.
So I don't know.
Do you guys have that kind of cash laying around?
I know I don't.
I was going to cut open the box spray and go pull it out.
Yeah.
Wake up right in the morning, 430 in the morning, be like, yeah, let me get out my checkbook.
What's wrong with you?
So obviously Danny's parents told the intruder that they didn't have that kind of cash laying
around.
So the man told Aaron and Sally, that's okay.
I'm just going to take Danny as a hostage for ransom instead.
And the stipulation to that was that since Danny's parents were not prepared to hand
over the $10,000, the man upped his ransom to $25,000 US dollars.
Yeah.
Now they need to go to the bank because they definitely don't have that much money sitting
in their stock.
Right.
They're a little short.
All right.
Before the kidnapper took Danny away, he told Aaron and Sally that they should expect a
call later that night at 6 PM and there they would get further instructions.
Unfortunately, that call never came and Danny was never seen or heard from again.
The end.
Just kidding.
How old was the kid?
17.
We don't have the $10,000.
Okay.
Well, tell you what, it's okay.
You don't have the $10,000.
I understand.
I'm going to take your son and you're going to give me $25,000.
What goes through your mind?
Like they're just going to just come up with this money out of nowhere.
I know.
I don't understand.
I think it's an impossible amount on purpose, Kevin.
That's my thought.
Oh, okay.
That makes sense.
Thanks, Dan.
He just wanted the boy.
That's all it was.
He wanted the boy.
That's a possibility.
All right.
Well, Danny's parents unfortunately passed away just a decade ago without ever knowing
what happened to their son.
Aaron passed away in 2010 and Sally passed away in 2012.
So they never found out what happened to him.
And that's sad because he's an only child and I just couldn't imagine.
Okay.
Well, this is where Danny's childhood buddies come in.
So there's a group of friends, David Grobart, his brother Joe,
and their friends, Anthony Blayte, Harvey Liskar, and Paul Novak.
One day, Joe received a package from Danny's mom,
which she had sent him before she had passed away.
So I think that's pretty cool that they all kept in touch.
I mean, good group of friends keeping in touch with their childhood friends' parents.
That's amazing.
I think going through something like that kind of solidifies a lot of relationships.
Yeah, for sure.
Inside the package, Sally had a letter asking the group never to forget Danny.
Yeah, that's heartfelt.
Joe took this letter from the package and took it to the local police,
got his brother and his friends together and pledged to track down whatever happened to Danny.
So at this point in time, they are all going to get in it together.
And somewhere around 2011, Surfside's mayor and attorney at the time took a personal interest
in this case and spent his own money to investigate Danny's disappearance over the years.
So remember, this happened back in 1966 and all the way into 2011,
the mayor was investigating on his own.
So that is a really tight knit community right there.
I kind of can't think of any other mayor that would do that.
Most of them was like, I don't care.
I'm in politics.
That doesn't matter to me.
Yeah.
For the next decade and following leads all the way up, just until last year in 2022,
Danny's friends, David, Joe, Anthony, Harvey and Paul, all continued to pursue answers
in their friend's disappearance.
Plus they established a little name for themselves,
probably because they're living in the South.
They were called the Posse.
So they gave themselves a name.
Okay.
Like the Goonies, you know?
Yeah, I suppose.
But yeah.
Or the Toff Brats.
There you go.
All right.
Regardless, the Posse reviewed case files tirelessly.
Something worth mentioning is that Paul Novak, one of Danny's friends, went on to become
an attorney and a six term mayor of Surfside, the town where Danny disappeared.
Isn't that something?
Yeah.
Good for him.
And this is where things really begin to heat up.
Paul pulled his weight here and with these credentials, he told the FBI in pretty much
no uncertain terms that he had every legal right to Danny's file and was not going to
take no for an answer as to when they told him initially that he did not have access.
He couldn't get into that file.
He was not a family member, but he did have access because he was a public figure.
Right.
Paul and his Posse got what they needed.
They dissected emails, looked over more than 10,000 pages of FBI files and worked closely
with the Miami Dade police to try to solve this case.
And obviously this group of friends was on a mission to honor Sally Goldman's wishes
and to find out what happened to their childhood friend.
Long story short, because that's what we do here on The Dash, you all, it's just a quick story.
Danny's friends pieced everything together and I mean everything.
They found out enough information about this case to discover that Danny had been kidnapped
by a mobster named George DeFyce.
I don't know if you guys have heard of him.
I don't know if you guys have heard of this guy.
I mean, I like to use the word crony.
He's just a go-to man.
He's told what to go do and then he does it and that's it.
So that's who ended up ultimately taking him and what happened to Danny.
Yeah.
As it turns out, Danny had been killed rather quickly.
He had been taken by boat to the nearby ocean with the help of his mobster friend,
Joe Chicken Cachetori.
Don't know if you heard of him.
I get these like cool names like Billy the Goan and Johnny Tightlips and all this kind of stuff.
And it's like, oh, what's your name?
Oh, yeah.
Is that Chicken Parmesan?
Yeah.
He's vegetarian now, so it's egg plant.
Parmesan.
This doesn't sound like a very mobster thing.
I know.
Were Danny's parents of any consequence to anybody?
I mean, did they have pull anywhere?
Were they important in any way?
It doesn't seem like a very mobster thing to break into some random person's house and
kidnap their kid and ask for money.
That's usually left for like people in politics or people of high stature.
Oh, you're mobster.
Go kidnap their kid and then to kill them real quick.
Does not seem like a traditional mobster thing to do.
It does not.
But I'll tell you what, I'm glad you asked that question, Kevin, because I'm going to get there.
Oh, right.
You're on the right track.
DeFice presumably dumped Danny overboard in the Atlantic Ocean near Miami, Florida.
So he and Joe Chicken Cacciatore, they just got together, decided that that's what they
were going to do.
And really, I did try to look up these two guys.
I could not find any information.
They're not Jimmy Hoffa.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
No, they're not.
Yeah.
Oh, and a name like that, I'm shocked he hasn't gone down in history.
I'm guessing his last name was probably Cacciatore and they just added chicken in there or something.
Because there's no way.
There's no way.
What happened was the parents were in the supermarket and they saw Chicken Cacciatore
on the shelf and they thought Chicken Cacciatore is crap.
It's really shit.
And he was in near shot and he's like, you ought to get these guys.
That's what happened.
I was just at Singham's yesterday.
I was looking at the Chicken Cacciatore.
Yeah.
All right.
So Kevin, I'm going to go ahead and answer that question for you because as it turns out,
Danny's father, Aaron, worked at a local bank in town and he was on the board of directors there.
Aaron, who was just doing his job, began to notice some questionable activities going on
in the bank records.
So we'll call these activities unethical, but remember this was back in 1966.
So they didn't have all those laws and guidelines established by the SEC.
And there were lots of loans coming into question here.
Aaron was just doing his diligent duties.
He was doing everything that he needed to do as a bank employee and board of director member.
He felt it was necessary to report his findings to the federal agents.
And that's what he did.
Obviously the feds began to build a case and Aaron went on to testify on behalf of the bank
in court just two days before that home invasion.
So here's the kicker.
Any ideas on what's happening yet?
Yeah.
I just even hear that.
It's kind of like how...
Yeah.
It's just ridiculous.
I think that he could be up in court and suddenly his home is invaded and there's no
kind of, you know, putting those pieces together for a quick resolution to this.
Well, Aaron had no idea that the bank was controlled by the mob
and its ringleader was a little mobster that I've already mentioned, Jimmy Hoffa.
Jimmy Parmesan.
Oh man.
So in a nutshell, Hoffa was using the bank as a front for his money laundering activities.
Aaron Goldman was not kept in the loop here and had no idea that the Florida mob boss
of the Tampa mafia, Santo Traficante, I'm going to say that's his name,
and his buddy, Jimmy Hoffa, were using the bank as a coverup.
So he had no idea.
Nobody put him in the loop and all the employees inside the bank were reporting back to Hoffa
and Aaron's concerns and that's where the home invasion came in.
I mean, there's obvious reason why he wasn't kept in the loop.
He couldn't be trusted to not tell the feds.
True.
Maybe they knew that he couldn't be paid off either.
But he couldn't have been surprised.
This is the heady day of money laundering.
That's before a bunch of regulations and the internet and you keep track of documents and
all these things.
Of course, they're going to be money laundering.
It's a bank in Florida.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fair enough.
All right.
The smoking gun here is that in the Goldman case, there was a rubber glove or at least
the tip of that glove that was left at the scene during Danny's kidnapping.
And this glove was later connected to a manufacturer based out of Canada.
So it was easily traceable.
Apparently, George DeFyce, the intruder that took Danny, he had been treated by a doctor
in Brooklyn, New York and had these gloves stocked in his office.
So of course, he's just going to grab one on his way out, right?
Investigators were able to trace the glove tip left behind in Danny's home and it went
all the way back to Brooklyn and basically the rest is history.
So everyone tied to Danny Goldman's kidnapping at this time is deceased.
So authorities were never able to take this case to trial.
Man.
I know, right?
Well, both George DeFyce and Joe Caccitori passed away before the case was solved.
DeFyce died in a nursing home in 1980 due to complications with diabetes.
I'm really not sure what happened to old chicken Caccitori there, but I did find an article
that he probably died somewhere around 1967.
And we know just from this case, it was very shortly after Danny's kidnapping.
And he was shot by Tony Belloni.
That's what I want.
You've been waiting to the end to say that.
I was going to say something else.
Building.
And his back pocket was full of time.
I wish.
All right.
Well, I would imagine chicken Caccitori's death came from Jimmy Hoffa trying to
keep the amount of people who knows about it, you know, under rat.
He's probably got a pair of cement shoes at the bottom of a river somewhere out.
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
Just because there was little information to be found in the timeline.
That definitely makes sense.
All right, you all.
That is my case of Danny Goldman.
If I've learned one thing from this, I tell you now, it's that when I watch TV drama,
things with cops and them and they're like, oh, we haven't got enough evidence from this
like smoking gun that we have sitting here, a partial piece of a glass or whatever like that.
If you can track down a guy from the tip of a rubber glove in real life back from 1966,
New York.
Yeah, from like how in God's name.
Like it's just.
Yeah.
Well, you said that it reminds me of when they got a lead on Richard Ramirez just because
the shoe imprint because the very odd shoe that he wore that he left the imprint in the mud
and they were able to trace it back to certain people that had bought that shoe,
which helped catch him.
I mean, he caught himself really by being an idiot into the street and getting
mobbed by all those people.
But yeah, I don't want to hear about any.
We don't have enough evidence.
Screw that dude.
Do police work.
Yeah, exactly.
Cause that's very minimal evidence right there.
And back in the sixties, we didn't have all that DNA and everything to go with it.
So yeah, they did a phenomenal job.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, that's my storyline, but I heard that you have one for us.
So Kevin, I'm going to kind of hand things over to you.
Give us a little glimpse of torture podcast, Dan.
Oh goodness.
I don't know if I'm ready, but here we go.
So Deb, when you said come up with a little bit of mini episode, I was
kind of at a loss with the cover.
I wasn't sure how torture-y to go with it.
And I can't start an episode without doing our opening.
Cue music.
Oh no.
So Deb, with your permission, Dan, you ready?
Yeah.
Okay.
The subject of today's mini episode is a device that was allegedly used in the later
years of medieval Europe until early 1800s.
It was used for interrogation, punishment, and even execution.
If the bleeding couldn't be stopped for one very specific and very serious crime used
on the most sensitive part of the male anatomy, two pieces of iron hinged in the middle of
spikes at one end on that alone would be enough to make a person cringe.
But sometimes to add to the tear, this device would be designed to look like one of the
deadliest reptiles on the face of the earth.
If it actually was ever even used today, we cover the crocodile shears.
Oh, I'm Kevin Young.
And I'm Billy Bolognese.
Deb, you're in on this too.
Go ahead.
And I'm just along for the ride.
We're here for coming effect.
And this is torture on the dash.
All right.
So here we go.
I couldn't, I can't, I can't do an episode without doing that little opening.
Oh, see, you know what I mean though?
Do you have a great broadcast voice?
Thank you.
You could go far.
Well, I appreciate that.
Yeah.
Like I said, I'd love to be listening to him driving home in the middle of the night,
in between snippets of smooth jazz, just Kevin's talking.
Tell my parents so they'll be proud of me.
And Dan, your accent is amazing too.
I could listen to you all day.
Not true.
My wife, she's tired of it.
That's so rude.
OK, so let's go back to medieval Europe.
Dan, I love to put Dan in these situations.
Let's say you did something stupid like, I don't know, try to kill the king.
Oh, you're going to say I stole an orange again, but OK.
No, I was going to say it's fairly outside of your character for you.
You're more likely to steal an orange than you are kill a king.
Here we are.
Now, somehow you are caught before you're able to finish the deed,
maybe planning stage, maybe in the process, who knows.
Any case, you're caught.
I left the tip of my rubber glove behind.
I knew they used proper plea procedure, please work.
And they found me very quickly based on very obvious evidence.
Here's the thing about these episodes that we do is I always write these
knowing there's going to be humor somewhere, so I don't write jokes into them.
I never know what we're going to come up with, but at some point I know it's coming.
So that was one of them.
OK, so you're taken to a dungeon of some sort and tied up,
most likely to a post standing up, maybe laying down, you know, whatever they have.
But while you're there, you notice them take a piece of iron,
maybe about foot long, and place it in a roaring fire.
Now, while this is going on, they may bring in a young, beautiful woman.
She may dance around or touch you or do any other number of things,
as long as you are aroused.
Or the torturer could have done it himself either way, you know, whatever.
Because it's a distraction from the iron rod being heated up.
No, it's getting the man aroused is going to be a pretty significant part of it.
If you could see where I'm going.
There are some sources that say these may have been used on fingers or toes
during the Spanish Inquisition to get information.
And there is a slight chance that for lesser crimes like thievery,
they could have been used on fingers as punishment.
But crimes against the state like regicide,
which is the murder or attempted murder of someone of royalty,
they were seen as deserving of a much more traumatizing punishment.
So when the young woman or the torturer himself thought you were good and ready,
the piece of iron was removed from the fire.
And that's when you turn and you say, you're going to need a bigger iron.
Now, before we get to the quote unquote good stuff,
let's take a look at these things.
So what you have is essentially a piece or two pieces of cast iron,
about a foot long, connected by a pivot point,
like the scariest piece of scissors you've ever seen in your life.
The dangerous end, however, aren't sharp like blades.
They're half cylindrical.
So it's like they took an iron tube and cut it down the middle.
Yeah.
So when they close, they go back to form a tube.
Now, inside this tube are maybe dozens of spikes or teeth,
which just happens to make them look like a crocodile.
See how it all comes together.
We start at one point, we work all the way back around.
It's a big circle.
So they get vicious needle nose pliers kind of on the ground.
Exactly.
Now, back to why we're all listening to the good stuff.
Like I had said, this specific torture had a much more sensitive target area.
Now, after you, Dan, of course, are all prepped,
your manhood, as we'll say, fully exposed,
the red heart shears are placed on the member and squeezed shut.
I'm sorry.
I'm just looking at Dan's reaction here.
My apologies.
I'm storming.
I'm.
It's my favorite part of the show.
There's a natural reaction.
Yeah.
I think there's a natural reaction every man has when you hear something like that being
described.
And it's like when you're watching a TV show and you see a guy getting kicked there as well.
It's the automatic reaction.
It's so for me, it's when I see somebody gets up,
when something happens to the Achilles tendon, I have this automatic like, oh, God.
Yeah.
When the pencil goes in.
No.
Okay.
Then the twist.
Anyways, so when the pressure is sufficient, the torturer, much like we learned in our
breast-ripper episode, go check it out.
It's horrifying.
Yes, it is.
The shared the shears are then pulled.
The reason that there is that look I see, Dan,
people at home cancer or wherever you can't see it, but Dan is literally cringing into a ball.
He is squirming and I'll tell you, if I can interrupt for just a second,
this is going to make all future episodes that I listened to.
I mean, so much more visual.
Thank you for that.
You're welcome.
The resulting injury, obviously being severe, leaving the old jolly Roger in pieces.
Some of the time the man was left to very slowly bleed to death.
Other times the rest of the organ was just removed more than likely while still awake
and the man was sent off to never walk correctly again.
Then they may have used it on the fingers and toes after using on the genitals.
But honestly, at that point, what does it matter?
He's like, yeah, take a finger and a toe.
I don't care.
What did you do to me?
Ends up looking like the Demogorgon's face from Stranger Things.
I'd say it's the first thing I thought of when you-
Now, there are a few sources that mentioned the shears.
The Book of Torture and Execution by Richard Sire.
The Wrong View of History by Jack Parascovich.
And the Dictionary of Torture by Naget Spikes.
All claim that the crocodile shears were real and used at some point through history.
But for those of you that have never listened to our show,
they actually keep pretty organized records on who was tortured, how, and when.
And just like other devices and methods that we have covered in the past,
like Headcrusher or the Pair of Anguish,
there isn't any real documentation on the crocodile shears ever being used on anyone ever.
So that might put your mind at ease, Dan.
The fact is, we love to hear stories and see images of these horrific,
intricate, innovative, and complex medieval devices and the sheer pain and torment they can afflict.
But in reality, all the torture needed was rope, some wood, maybe a hammer,
probably the best, most famous device of all, the wreck.
And they could get any info to punish anyone they wanted.
That's all rats. Rats.
Or a door, as we've just covered.
Good old door. That works.
That actually popped in my head when you were doing your story, Deb,
and you had said that they were, they woke them up in the middle of the night and asked for a ransom.
Yeah.
Pair of Anguish was the first thing that popped in my head.
Because that's what it was supposedly originally used for, was to extract money out of people.
They'd put it in the mouth, pull the pin, they would expand and then couldn't call for help.
Like, can't get it out without the key and you're not getting the key until you give me the money.
But you can learn about that on our Pair of Anguish episode if you want to go. Anybody wants to go listen?
So those are the crocodile shears. Horrifying, quick and to the point.
If they ever actually existed.
Literally and figuratively.
A lot of these different devices that you can see, like you can pull up a picture of the crocodile shears now
and they look like, you know, got the little crocodile face on them or whatever.
Same thing with Pair of Anguish, Head Crusher, Iron Maiden, all these stuff.
And they look pretty and intricate and oh my god, they look so dangerous.
But honestly, with torture devices back then, they didn't put hours and hours and hours into the design of these things.
It was just like, hit them with the hammer and get the information they need.
They didn't have time and they didn't want to spend the money to make these things so intricate.
Just hit them with the hammer, put them in the rack, pull them until their arms separate.
That's all we need. Just get the information.
And that's what you all can look forward to when you listen to torture.
This falls right into your storylines, which is amazing.
It keeps me guessing.
I don't know what I signed up for sometimes.
Do you want to do this?
This sounds fun. Okay.
So at the beginning of the episode, before I started the show, I was going to just do it on my own
and have more serious tone, dark tone to it.
I was like, this is way, even for me, this is just too much.
So I asked my wife, you want to do it with me? Bring a little humor to it.
She said, no.
The only person I can really think of that I think would have fun doing this with was Dan.
After my asking my wife, because that's obviously the first person you ask,
Dan was the next person that I asked and I was lucky enough for him to say yes.
It's been fun ever since.
When I said it to my wife, Kevin asked me about doing it.
She was basically her reaction was like, yeah, he really knows.
Sense of humor that if he's asking you to do this.
I don't know what that says about me, but okay.
So that is just a little taste of what you guys have in store when you listen to Torture Podcast.
Kevin and Dan, thank you so much for being here on The Dash with me.
Honestly, it's such a good time getting to know you guys and to our listeners,
you should head over to Torture Podcast.
Found just about everywhere in your podcast library,
because who doesn't like a little history behind human cruelty, right?
That's right. And a bit of fun behind it too.
It's a lot harder than it's possible.
Kind of have to, yeah.
Well, we appreciate you having us on.
Absolutely.
Honestly, this has been looking forward to it for a couple of weeks.
It's been fun.
I'm glad that we could all get our schedules put together.
Be sure to check out their social media on Instagram.
Otherwise, be sure to check out our podcasts on Instagram at Dying to be Found
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So slide into those DMs and give us a show.
If you would like to be highlighted on this episode of The Dash,
just like Kevin and Dan here,
shoot us an email found in our show notes and talk to you soon.
Do you guys have any last words?
Nah, we just usually take care of ourselves, take care of one another.
We'll see.
Give it up for Irish goodbye.
Slaa na waa yaa.
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