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The history of human cruelty is long and brutal.

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And on our show, we cover all of it, one subject at a time.

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I'm Kevin Young.

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And I'm Dan Hergen.

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And we host a podcast called Torture.

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We'll discuss the methods, devices, and the people that implemented them,

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from ancient times to modern day.

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Link Chi to waterboarding, Nero to Dennis Reiler,

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and everything in between, including the pop culture they influenced.

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Also, food.

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And lots of Dungeons and Dragons.

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Lots, lots of Dungeons and Dragons.

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Episodes are out now, and new episodes are released every other Sunday.

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So like, follow, and subscribe to us on all podcast platforms, including YouTube.

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Follow us on Instagram and Twitter at TorturePod,

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and email us at torturpod at gmail.com.

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But most importantly, listen to Torture,

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a history of human cruelty, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.

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Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions

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on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.

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Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences,

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due to the content nature of this podcast.

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Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host from the True Crime Podcast, Dying to be Found.

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Welcome to The Dash, which is a collection of short true crime stories,

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interviews with other podcasts, or interviews with other people.

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And generally, a way to get you through your morning routine or commute.

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Sometimes you just get me, but other times I get together with other

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podcasters and talk true crime.

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And today is one of those days, because I have Kevin and Dan from Torture Podcast

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to enlighten us on all sorts of things from the dark ages.

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Hi guys.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Welcome.

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We appreciate you being here.

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Thank you.

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So much for taking your time out of your day.

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I'm so glad that you were both on board for doing this.

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Yeah, it's our pleasure.

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Happy to be here.

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I understand there is a little bit of difference between all of us because

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we're all spread out.

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So I do appreciate we're all in different time zones.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's a quarter past three.

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Midwest, Dan's Ireland.

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We've done this before.

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We had a D and D thing going on where we were spread all over Ireland,

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Canada, and the United States.

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So we're kind of used to doing the whole trying to figure out five minutes in a day

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to everybody can get together.

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So absolutely.

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I get that because I'm kind of in the same boat with you guys.

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So I'm going to tell you upfront, I'm very fascinated with your podcast.

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It's all about these horrific things that I never thought I would listen to every week.

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I love that era that you guys have as far as what is it?

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The Renaissance, the

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dark ages, what is it?

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Well, I mean, the majority of tour, what do you think torture?

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You automatically think medieval England, you know, that's kind of one of the first

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things, but it spans from the beginning of human history, recorded history all the

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way up till today, there's torture throughout all of it.

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So we don't want to just focus on one section of time because obviously that was one of

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the most horrific times we get into some stuff where, you know, we just covered rats

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and they did it way back then and they, you know, just a few years ago, we're doing it

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in New Jersey.

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So, I mean, it spans all of human history.

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That's why we say it's a history of human cruelty because that's what it is.

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It's what we're known best for, I think.

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That's why aliens don't show up here.

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They look at our history, they go, oh, no, no.

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And they fly away because that is a perfect answer because if you knew my sister Beth,

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she is all into the UFOs.

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So Beth, if you're listening, that's why we don't see UFOs very often.

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Because humans are cruel and I honestly have no idea how they get away with it time and

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time again.

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It's just part of humanity.

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But you guys do an amazing job in your research and your podcasts and other aspects that you,

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of course, break things up.

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And to me, when I'm listening to you guys, it's really more of a talk show.

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Like back in the day, Dan and I were talking, Kevin, before you came on board and we were

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talking about the 1980s.

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And back then they had a lot of talk show hosts.

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So that's kind of the feel I get from your show, too.

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It's not always specifically about your storylines, but you put a lot more into it.

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Well, some of the stuff doesn't have a lot of content like what we're going to be covered

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when I'll have for you later today.

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Not a whole lot of content behind it.

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So we really got to fill the time.

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And when we started this, when we started this, it was Dan's like, so I'm just kind

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of like your Ed McMahon to your Johnny Carson.

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I was like, if that's what you want to say, that's fine with me.

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I love Ed McMahon.

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There you go.

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And I'm glad you said that because I had sent you the questions ahead of time, just so you

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guys could prepare.

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And one of my questions to you is that honestly, Kevin, you come across as that talk show host.

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So my question is, have you ever been in the entertainment industry because you come across

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that well-versed and your style of communication?

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Do you come from communication industry?

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I do not know nowhere even near it.

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I am in the BFE out in the middle of Illinois.

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I have no connection to any entertainment at all.

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Mom was a nurse.

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Dad worked at a lumber yard.

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I have no connection with the entertainment industry.

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My wife and I had a couple of podcasts before you didn't hear them.

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I promise you, you didn't listen to them because nobody did.

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I did.

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So you did?

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I listened to some.

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I got to know you.

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I tried to support you and I decided to listen to some.

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So I was really quiet as a kid and I kind of found more of a voice as I got older because

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I stopped giving a shit.

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Once you're pushing 40, it's like, I don't care anymore.

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So I just kind of say whatever I want and it's worked out.

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But I think Kevin kind of has this real midnight hour at my time drive radio post kind of volley

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going on.

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But dad has some entertainment in him.

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I've worked in music for, yeah, playing music, being a musician for God.

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I started painting with a car.

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I had a show last night.

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Yeah, it was really good.

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Yeah, it was good fun.

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Lots of positivity afterwards.

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It was great fun.

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Yeah, it's not really something else for me to say about it.

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We had the place rocking and rolling, as you'd say.

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Dan, can we look you up to see anything on film or in your music industry?

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There's not really much of me out there in that way.

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I kind of more just playing in like in cover bands and playing for friends and stuff like

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that, though.

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So I have like an Instagram that I'm trying to get going at the moment.

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That's based on around guitar related stuff.

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That's called What's All the Fuzz About is the name of that.

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Oh, that's cool.

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You could see him play on his YouTube a little bit.

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I'm starting that now.

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Yeah, which is the same name.

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I wonder the What's All the Fuzz About names.

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A man with many talents.

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One or two.

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All right.

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So hey, I wanted to give you guys just a little backstory.

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I had gone to St. Augustine, Florida.

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Have you been there, Kevin?

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I've been to Florida a few times when I was a kid.

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So I don't know if I've been to St. Augustine or not.

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It was usually just directly to Disney World and directly back to Illinois.

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So I don't know how much of that I actually was through.

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Okay.

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So this is one of the oldest, I believe it might even be the oldest

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establishment in the United States.

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And it's got an old fort there.

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It's really cool.

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It's very, I don't know, it's very historical.

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And if you have not been there, there's a really cool torture chamber museum there.

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And yeah, I ended up in there.

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Holy cow.

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Okay.

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So I got two options there.

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I could either go through, get a set of headphones and then go to each station

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and listen to all the human cruelty things that people did to each other back in the day,

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including the rats.

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Or I could go and look under a microscope and look at these teeny tiny little figurines

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that people would make and you could not see them unless it's under a microscope.

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Of course, which one do you think I picked?

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Headphones or microscope?

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Headphones.

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Honestly, I would have gone with the microscope.

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Okay.

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So I went with torture, which was, it really took us about two hours to get through it.

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It was really fascinating.

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I was going to say, sorry, I was going to say, Kevin, you can't turn around as the host of

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a torture podcast and say that you would willingly look down through a microscope

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at a tiny toy instead of listening to more education.

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He just needs to decompress a little bit.

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If I can do a podcast about little things that you can only see through a microscope,

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maybe I'd do that.

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I don't know.

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Well, after we went through, they offered us the options.

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So really I got the best of both worlds because they let us go look at those things,

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which was fascinating too.

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But torture on the other hand was like, wow, people are really, really cruel.

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So yeah, so I'm curious to know, first of all, how did you two meet?

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Because you're in different countries and how do you know each other?

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So true Canadian.

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Yeah.

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They're our favorite Canadian.

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Okay.

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So there's a long version of a short version.

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I get long winded, so I'll try to keep it compressed.

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Dan knows I get long winded.

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Pretty much what it boils down to is I wanted to start a D&D podcast.

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Dan and I are both huge D&D guys.

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I want to start a D&D podcast.

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So I put it out on Facebook.

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I was walking around at my job during COVID.

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Nobody was there.

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So I was just, you know, dittling around.

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Put it on some of the podcasts, Facebook pages I was on.

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It was like, if anybody is starting a D&D comedy podcast and they need somebody, let me know.

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Okay.

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I wanted to start one.

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I wanted to be on one.

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And I'm like, okay, I'll put this up.

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I'll check in an hour or two.

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I'll probably get one or two responses.

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With five minutes, my phone explodes.

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Wow.

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With responses.

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I mean, it was from, oh yeah, I would like to start one.

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It's like, I'm not looking to do.

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I had to reiterate to people.

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It's like, I don't want to do anything.

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I don't want to edit.

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I don't want to research.

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I don't want to write.

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I don't want to DM.

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I'll do what is.

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I just want to get on, play, get off.

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That's it.

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That's all I want to do.

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Because I was still in the process of working with my wife on the other podcasts.

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Like, I don't have time for all this bullshit.

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I just want to play.

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And of course I get more responses about, you know, oh, you can't just start a podcast.

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Like, pretty sure you can, but okay.

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Have you got a microphone?

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I'm laughing because that's what I do.

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Check.

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That's literally what you do.

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That's how they start.

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You just start one.

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It's handy when people hit records when you want to start as well.

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Yeah.

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You get a microphone, you press record, you're good.

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Got to remember to press record though.

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That's, that's key.

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That's the big thing.

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No rule and rule to starting a podcast.

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That's the big thing.

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Press record.

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Press record.

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Anyway, all of a sudden I get this, and everybody else is responding just on Facebook.

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All of a sudden I get this message on Messenger.

251
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,720
Hey, are you serious about this?

252
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,240
And it's from a man who, if you've listened to our podcast, you've heard his name many times.

253
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:02,800
A man named Phil Better gets ahold of me and says, yeah, the award winning podcast mogul,

254
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:03,200
Phil Better.

255
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,520
This was before the awards, before the mogul.

256
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,440
He was still just Phil.

257
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:08,480
Regular Phil.

258
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:09,280
Not quite better.

259
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:09,520
Yeah.

260
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,560
And he's like, are you serious about this?

261
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,000
I was like, yeah, I'm dead serious.

262
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,280
He's like, hold on.

263
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,040
And then I wait about two minutes and all of a sudden this new name comes up, says,

264
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,840
here's our DM and it's Dan Horrigan.

265
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,520
And I'm like, okay.

266
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,520
And then we brought on some, some other people.

267
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,000
We started, we met up and took a while.

268
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,200
We finally started playing.

269
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,480
And of course that all fell apart.

270
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:32,640
That's how Dan and I met.

271
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,280
It was from a Canadian.

272
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:40,080
How I got to know Phil was kind of funny as well though, because what happened was my brother

273
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:45,040
wanted to, because he got involved in this kind of podcast group, kind of got to know Phil through

274
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,200
a Facebook group and the two of them became friends.

275
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,320
Phil came over here.

276
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,680
I didn't know him at the time.

277
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,560
And my brother was like, oh, you should come out drinking with us because this guy's here.

278
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:54,960
And I couldn't because it was halfway across the country.

279
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,280
And basically I ended up getting to know Phil through playing Call of Duty as a result,

280
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,400
because he jumped in with the guys and then we got chatting to him.

281
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,520
And then next thing then it was for like, oh, so you like Dungeons and Dragons.

282
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,440
He goes, I always wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons.

283
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,280
And that was like probably the day I'd say before Kevin put up his post because it was

284
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,320
literally the day after I first ever met the Phil.

285
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,600
I liked Dungeons and Dragons.

286
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,720
A text from him.

287
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:17,840
Hey, you want to do this?

288
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:18,400
Yeah, cool.

289
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:19,600
Okay.

290
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,080
Okay.

291
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,560
And that's usually how it is with guys, because, you know, in my aspect, we have to think about

292
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,280
things and then organize and you know, you get it.

293
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:28,080
Yeah.

294
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,400
Guys just kind of fall into it like, oh, you like the same thing I do.

295
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,360
We're best friends.

296
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,800
That is a cool story though, because it was obviously meant to be, but that's a really

297
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:41,360
great story.

298
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,400
So how do you guys balance life, podcasting and the time difference between you guys?

299
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:48,400
Difficult.

300
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,680
That's the 20 million dollar question.

301
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:56,160
I work, we get kind of lucky because Dan works days and I work night.

302
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,280
So we're pretty much, so we're working not exactly the same time, but there's some overlap

303
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,000
of when I'm working and he's working and when he's off and I'm off.

304
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,640
I come home and go to sleep.

305
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:15,040
Usually, we usually record about 11 o'clock my time, which is about five o'clock his time.

306
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:15,840
That's average.

307
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,600
I mean, sometimes it's before, sometimes after.

308
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,160
So I come home, get changed, say hi to the wife, to the dog, push the kids out the door

309
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,960
of school and go straight to bed, sleep for a few hours, get up, get everything ready.

310
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:32,640
We record and then I lay in bed for like another hour and a half after that, trying to, you

311
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,240
know, come down from the high of talking about people being mutilated.

312
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,880
And then finally I pass out.

313
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,080
I sleep for the rest of the evening and then get up and do whatever I need to do.

314
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,520
So do you guys have like a set day of the week that you guys record?

315
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,160
Or is it just whenever you can manage your schedules?

316
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:48,720
No.

317
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,000
Yeah, usually when we can manage.

318
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,760
For me, it's one of these things where I have to try and manage my time massively, where

319
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,200
like I started doing this thing where I can start work at different times, but I have

320
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,480
to do a set amount of hours.

321
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,680
So I started starting as early as I possibly can because I might finish at around 4 p.m.

322
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:10,480
So then I have like an hour to an hour and a half or so of time time, which is usually

323
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,680
when we try and squeeze podcasts in or I get my guitar practice in or trying to get some

324
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,040
recording done and stuff like that.

325
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:22,480
And then it's literally just trying to base it around family life then for times between

326
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,040
the two.

327
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,440
We'll see if, you know, I might have something on randomly on a Tuesday or on a Wednesday.

328
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,760
And like last week, we were texting each other about doing that last Bratz episode.

329
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,600
I was literally like a last minute thing.

330
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,280
I've turned around and been like, oh, God, we need to sort day because it's the week.

331
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:42,000
I wasn't I was literally available one, two days at most.

332
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,480
And we just happened to have a single day that we overlapped.

333
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,480
That's kind of the only way of doing it.

334
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:46,960
Really.

335
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:47,520
Yeah.

336
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,360
It's usually a Tuesday or a Wednesday when we get the record, which I mean, it gives me

337
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,800
a couple of days to get everything edited down and ready to go, ready to post for Sunday.

338
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:57,920
But we've got it.

339
00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,360
We've got it pretty close before.

340
00:14:59,360 --> 00:14:59,840
I mean, we've.

341
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:00,400
Oh, yes.

342
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,880
It's been me up Saturday, like 1130.

343
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,280
Posting it for Sunday night.

344
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:08,480
I mean, we've cut it.

345
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,120
We've got it close, which we also have to schedule the record.

346
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,160
Like if we're a better organized, you'd imagine we record, let's say, the Tuesday

347
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,640
after the episode release.

348
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,360
So is that you have the week and a half or more or two weeks?

349
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,960
Well, we we had it planned out so well in the beginning.

350
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,000
It's like, let's record a bunch of episodes, get them ready to go.

351
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,160
That way we never get, you know, we never fall behind.

352
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,560
And then we we recorded a bunch of episodes.

353
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,600
Put them out and then we didn't record for a long time.

354
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:36,160
Right.

355
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:36,800
Sure.

356
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,840
We're getting close.

357
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:38,800
We got to record.

358
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:44,480
Yeah, I agree because I actually cut it close, really close because I drop it midnight and

359
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:50,480
I think I got done editing this week at 1130 PM.

360
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:57,360
So but then I thought it would be a really good idea to throw out an extra podcast every

361
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:57,840
week.

362
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,960
So what was I thinking?

363
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,480
That's why you guys are so good.

364
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,960
So what was I thinking? That's why you guys are here.

365
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,320
So it is manageable.

366
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,880
But I'm doing what you guys are doing is recording ahead and trying to stay that way.

367
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,920
But my schedule is pretty good because I don't have kids at home.

368
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,640
I have lots of time off just because of what I do for a living.

369
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,000
So I get it done.

370
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:18,960
Beat me personally.

371
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:19,760
I can get it done.

372
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,040
But I do run into challenges like last night.

373
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,040
I didn't want to do podcasting.

374
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,480
I wanted to just veg.

375
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:27,920
And that's what I did.

376
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,280
But I'm thinking, oh, gosh, it's not going to get me behind for next week.

377
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,920
So yeah, it's not it's just a balance.

378
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,200
You got to figure it all out.

379
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:41,440
But so I mentioned that you guys have a very unique approach to your podcast and the name

380
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:42,480
to me says it all.

381
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,440
So what does torture mean to you?

382
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:51,280
And what is it that fascinates you about the different types of way that people torture

383
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,800
each other over time?

384
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:58,240
The short answer is it's funny, it's really funny at times it is.

385
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,600
You know, it's kind of like the whole thing of you only watch videos of people falling

386
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,480
over or getting hit.

387
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,040
Oh, yeah.

388
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:03,680
That's all funny.

389
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:04,880
You'll find those funny.

390
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,160
And sometimes these things can can be so horrible.

391
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,120
They're actually kind of funny.

392
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:12,080
Like when you're watching movies.

393
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:15,520
Yeah, it's like I can't remember the name of that new movie.

394
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,120
Just a trailer out for that film.

395
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:20,640
I think it's based in Finland or something during World War Two and it's a bit in that

396
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,120
where a guy gets blown up by a landmine and because he throws it, it hits him in the head

397
00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:26,080
and blows up.

398
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,320
He turns and that's really funny looking like the way he gets killed.

399
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,040
It's things like that.

400
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,160
You know, that's that's the way I look.

401
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,960
That's probably why I'm doing this show.

402
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,160
How about you, Kevin?

403
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,600
Well, I asked Dan to do the show because I was terrified of doing it by myself.

404
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,040
I would be scarred for life.

405
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,280
So I needed to bring somebody on to make it.

406
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:42,960
And decompress a little bit.

407
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:43,600
Yeah.

408
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,960
Honestly, the whole thing started was because I was listening to an episode of last podcast

409
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,960
on the left and they were talking about a guy getting tortured.

410
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,760
And it was one of those where, well, we'll let your imagination just use the rope,

411
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,040
you know, figure out what he did or because they have a few episodes that have torture in them,

412
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,200
but they don't tell you what they did.

413
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,320
It's like, well, we're not going to get into it.

414
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,520
It's like, get into it.

415
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,120
I want to know what happened.

416
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,320
I want to know what these people had to go through.

417
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,440
It's not and it's not like, oh, you're so morbid.

418
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:16,240
You want to hear about it?

419
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,120
Because these people had to go through it.

420
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,080
The least we could do is have to sit and hear about it.

421
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,400
Like your episode where they would tar people with a hat.

422
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:28,480
Yeah, pitch capping.

423
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:28,800
Yes.

424
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:29,520
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

425
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,000
Oh, that was rough.

426
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:32,160
Yeah.

427
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,160
I like to speak to my ancestors when I say yes.

428
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:41,600
The name came just, I wanted something sleek and you hear the word torture.

429
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,640
You're like, okay, I kind of have an idea what this podcast is going to be.

430
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,000
The inspiration from that actually came from Criminal, the Criminal podcast.

431
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:48,400
Oh, yeah.

432
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,520
Just criminal.

433
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,400
It's got that sleek white background with the black letters on.

434
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,000
That's where I got the inspiration for the first logo we have.

435
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:56,320
Okay.

436
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,560
It's black with a white letter.

437
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,000
That's a great logo.

438
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,400
But you know exactly what you're getting.

439
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,920
You're like, you're not going to be a criminal and then it's going to be a baking show.

440
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,040
You know what you're getting into.

441
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,160
So it's similar to.

442
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,440
Why call it torture?

443
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,000
Go ahead.

444
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,480
I was going to say it's very similar to an awful lot of the devices that we've talked about as well.

445
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:20,000
Like where we say that it's the simplicity and the directness of what it is that makes people turn

446
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,520
around and just know exactly what it is.

447
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,440
It's kind of like, like I said about the head crusher that we covered at one stage.

448
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,600
It's very obvious what that's supposed to do.

449
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,000
Yes.

450
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,040
And it's so direct and that's what makes it kind of like, oh God.

451
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,360
And that's the same thing with like with the name as well.

452
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,840
It's literally just straight up in front of your face.

453
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:36,960
Exactly what it means.

454
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,000
Yes.

455
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:38,720
There's no question.

456
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,760
And it's this thing where, so you look in the past and you see all the horrible things we did to

457
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,520
one another and everybody wants to think, okay, we're doing better now.

458
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,560
We're better people.

459
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,400
We don't do that type of stuff.

460
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,920
But then you look into it and you're like, do we just cover rats?

461
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,880
What a breast dripper is the perfect example.

462
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,080
So you hear about, you hear about, yeah, I know exactly.

463
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,640
Yeah, I cringe every time I hear that.

464
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:07,040
But thank you for being so descriptive when you described what happens.

465
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:07,840
Right.

466
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,440
Well, so you hear about the breast dripper and you think, oh, the stuff that these women

467
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:14,800
back then had to go through.

468
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,200
And then you read about it and you find out women over in the Middle East are still

469
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,760
getting this done to them now in 2023.

470
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,520
So we haven't gotten as better as we think we have.

471
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,400
And honestly, the only way you learn from history is, the only reason, the only way you

472
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,400
don't repeat history is if you learn from it.

473
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,880
And I'm not saying that our podcast is going to make a big dent in that, but it's something

474
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,240
that everybody's take into account that we're going to keep doing the same shit to one another

475
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,160
unless we learn from it and stop.

476
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,960
Absolutely.

477
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,480
Then we'll run out of material then.

478
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,920
I mean, yeah, from the museum that I went to, you still have a lot of content.

479
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,120
So I'm sure you'll find something and other cultures too.

480
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,440
I mean, every culture is different.

481
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,680
So do you guys have a favorite episode?

482
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,960
It depends on what way you mean, favorite.

483
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:12,560
Like, that's I think the most kind of striking one, 100% has to be the Nan King series is

484
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,040
the most.

485
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:13,440
The numbers.

486
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:13,680
Yeah.

487
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,240
The GB.

488
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,560
Especially the second episode.

489
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,040
Yeah, that was the only one I haven't listened back on.

490
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,320
Did you ever listen to it, Dan?

491
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,840
I never listened back on it still, no, because it was just too much.

492
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,440
It's a lot.

493
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,280
I listened to all of them, like, and I'm not sure which one I prefer out of the rest of

494
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:29,520
them.

495
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,920
The one that we didn't, except we had to record twice.

496
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,000
It was really funny.

497
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,440
And so without lying, I forgot to hit the record button.

498
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,760
And I came inside.

499
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,360
My wife's like, how'd your recording go?

500
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:42,960
I said, it was fantastic.

501
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,560
It was maybe up to that point, the best episode we had done.

502
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,400
I mean, this episode alone could get us dozens of followers.

503
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,360
So there's one problem.

504
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:52,160
She goes, what is it?

505
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,080
I said, I forgot to record.

506
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:54,880
Oh, man.

507
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,880
She goes, Kevin Young.

508
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,640
I was like, yeah, I know.

509
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,120
And we had to go back and do it again.

510
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,520
And the episode ended up being good, not as good as it could have been because.

511
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,720
The element of surprise was no longer there.

512
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,480
We're going over it all again.

513
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,680
It's like we rehearsed it.

514
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,960
So yeah, and trying to make the same jokes that were very obvious.

515
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,040
There's a couple of moments in there where we're talking.

516
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,960
There's things that I said the first time that I couldn't just crowbar in the second

517
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,320
time because it wouldn't have been funny.

518
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,640
So it sounded scripted.

519
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,040
Yeah, yeah.

520
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,000
I didn't want it to sound scripted.

521
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:26,080
Yes.

522
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,280
And then we couldn't do it because and then I'm listening back on it.

523
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,360
And it was really funny because I listened back on the episode.

524
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,000
It's like, oh, I really should have said that to this guy.

525
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,440
He's like, I wasn't quick enough to pick up on it.

526
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,320
And then I remember, oh, and I did say it in the first recording, except I couldn't say it.

527
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,360
Except recording.

528
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,320
Now, they all kind of hold a special place in my heart.

529
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,880
Ling-Chi might be my favorite just because I got to watch Dan squirm the most during that one.

530
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,560
He's got a big problem with the slow cutting.

531
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:51,280
Oh, yeah.

532
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,720
He was he was really like he was really like through a lot of that episode.

533
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,960
So that might that might be my favorite one that we've.

534
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,600
Do you guys listen to any other types of genres?

535
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,200
Kevin go first, sir.

536
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,680
Obviously, I listen to a lot of true crime, you know, the morbid type of stuff.

537
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:11,440
But apart from that, I mean, it's a little bit of every I listen to a lot of D&D podcasts.

538
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,120
I listen to improv stuff.

539
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,320
I used to listen to a few political shows, but I'm the type of person that I start arguing

540
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,440
with the person on the other side of the podcast and it brings my heart, you know,

541
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,320
my blood pressure up.

542
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,240
So I had to stop listening to those.

543
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,840
I used to listen to a lot of like religious, like atheist type podcast.

544
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,000
And that also got my blood boiling.

545
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,280
So I had to stop listening to those.

546
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,520
So you narrowed it down to torture.

547
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:36,080
Yeah.

548
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:36,400
Yeah.

549
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,520
True crime and some comedy and D&D.

550
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,680
So if I'm not listening to like a Dateline or a last podcast on the left,

551
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,440
I'm listening to Critical Role or Dun Duns and Dragons or something.

552
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,000
Yeah.

553
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,560
Dungeons and Daddies.

554
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,200
Dan, how about you?

555
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,120
Dungeons and Daddies.

556
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:51,280
Yeah.

557
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,280
I've a strange thing to say.

558
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:58,320
So like I didn't listen to an awful lot of paranormal say stuff before this,

559
00:23:58,960 --> 00:23:59,920
before we started doing this.

560
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:04,640
But like very first podcast I listened to, I dropped in the deep end with Serial and

561
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,520
then Shit Town and then kind of went from there.

562
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:13,200
And it's mainly primarily music related stuff at the moment because I'm also trying to get

563
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,560
a vibe at what to do and not to do for my own because I want to start my own.

564
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:17,040
Yeah.

565
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,880
But and then let me see, because I had to double check that to open up like things like

566
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,440
I listen to some Dungeons and Dragons ones, but I don't listen to as many of them anymore.

567
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,560
But I like listening to things like the kind of radio play style ones like the

568
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,880
oh, what was the zombie one?

569
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,520
Yeah.

570
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,560
We're alive.

571
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:35,040
We're alive.

572
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:35,280
Yeah.

573
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,440
That's one of the best things I've ever listened to in my life.

574
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,160
I absolutely love that.

575
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,560
But yeah, it's just things like that.

576
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,200
Of course, the World War II podcast, well, it's a better show.

577
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,200
Just things like that, like and ourselves.

578
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,560
But yeah, I can listen to things like this one's called like the guitar knobs is one of them.

579
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,960
And I only discovered one way called broken record is the music one.

580
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,440
That's all to Rick Rubin, who's one of the more famous kind of music producers out there.

581
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,160
And everybody would actually know stuff done by him.

582
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,080
So I was kind of really chuffed and found that.

583
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,640
And it's typically what I'd be listening to.

584
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:06,960
Yeah.

585
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,000
So very diverse.

586
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:08,800
That's great.

587
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,000
Lots of stuff.

588
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,440
What keeps you guys up at night?

589
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,760
Oh, well, I mean, I work at night.

590
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,960
So I do what you're saying.

591
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:22,000
I mean, kids worried about, you know, kid stuff.

592
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,600
Money is obviously, I think the biggest one for most people, especially nowadays.

593
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,880
Money problems keep you up.

594
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:29,360
Oh, gosh.

595
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:29,760
Yeah.

596
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:30,320
Let's see.

597
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,320
What's the next guitar handle I should buy?

598
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:33,920
There you go.

599
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,160
Am I putting too much on myself?

600
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:42,320
Am I going to be able to get around to all this BS that I want to get done?

601
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,200
And running through Dungeons and Dragons campaigns alone in my head.

602
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:48,240
I do.

603
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,480
Who am I going to build next?

604
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,000
What are they going to sound like?

605
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,680
What am I going to do when this happens?

606
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,600
All that type of stuff.

607
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,240
So money mostly, but nothing important after that.

608
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:58,720
Yeah.

609
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,880
In the whole scheme of things, money just is not as important as everybody thinks it

610
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:03,520
is these days.

611
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,880
But I get where you're coming from.

612
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:05,520
Absolutely.

613
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,840
So, Dan, anything else that keeps you up?

614
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:13,440
It's very similar to Kevin's, except for from the D&D standpoint, I tend to think back on

615
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,600
decisions I made as a DM.

616
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:16,560
Hey, I shouldn't have done this.

617
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:17,280
I shouldn't have done that.

618
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,640
But yeah, no, it's very similar.

619
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,080
Okay.

620
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:28,720
And again, yeah, aside from my snoring and the thinking of guitar stuff after.

621
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,920
Well, I'm going to throw a little different question at you guys.

622
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,880
I always do pretty much standard interview questions, but I just like to throw an extra

623
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:37,920
one out there.

624
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,960
If you were to be a guest actor in any movie, it doesn't matter what genre, what would it

625
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:43,280
be?

626
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,320
Who was your character?

627
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,000
It's a very, very tough question.

628
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:46,960
Dan, you want to go first?

629
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,080
I went first last time.

630
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,840
I have a couple that I actually I discussed this for a short while with my wife and we

631
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,960
couldn't decide.

632
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,400
And Shawshank Redemption, 100% has to be up there.

633
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,840
And that was actually suggested by my wife.

634
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,840
And it was a very good suggestion because you get to work on one of the greatest actors

635
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:06,560
in the world.

636
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,760
Oh, yeah.

637
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,680
That is a phenomenal movie.

638
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:10,080
Yeah.

639
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,640
From a nerdy perspective and the stuff that typically into Blade Runner would probably

640
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,280
be one of them up there like to be one of the detectives looking for looking for replicants

641
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,440
or something, you know, pretty cool.

642
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:21,840
Yeah.

643
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:22,080
Cool.

644
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,080
See, I would I would figure you would have said Henchman in John Wick just so you could

645
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,000
get killed by Keanu at some point.

646
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,840
Yeah, I'd rather just go for it.

647
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,560
Let's go for a drink with him or something.

648
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,200
I don't know.

649
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,080
Fair enough.

650
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:34,320
Yeah.

651
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,680
He's a pretty cool guy.

652
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,000
I think he'd probably be easy going and pretty good drinking partner out there.

653
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,280
So, Kevin, how about you?

654
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,640
Honestly, I would like to voice act in any list of the show.

655
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:52,800
I'm horrible with accents, but I'm really good at doing them badly and doing weird voices.

656
00:27:52,800 --> 00:28:00,000
So doing maybe getting into like, yeah, like a voice acting thing for maybe a Pixar movie

657
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,960
or Sony movie or something, anything where I could be the villain.

658
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,960
Nothing specific.

659
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,800
Just villains so much more fun.

660
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,920
The hero has to be morally just kind of above everybody.

661
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,360
Even the anti heroes have to be.

662
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:13,360
They have a they have a line they can't cross.

663
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:14,640
Villains don't have a line.

664
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Complete freedom.

665
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:15,920
Yes.

666
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,880
Whatever you want.

667
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,440
That was a more interesting voice to though.

668
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:21,680
Typical hero voice.

669
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,320
I have a perfect podcast for you then, Kevin, which is I hear voices.

670
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:26,800
Listen to it.

671
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,320
Seriously, look it up.

672
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,480
It's voice actors, it's famous cartoon voice actors and to get other famous voice actors

673
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,120
on to interview them.

674
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:33,920
Right up your alley.

675
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,520
I forgot I was going to say to you before.

676
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:41,920
Also Sub Zero, if I had to pick a character, Sub Zero, if they ever did another Mortal

677
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,720
Kombat, because he was my favorite, I always wanted to be Sub Zero or any zombie, just

678
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,080
regular zombie in a movie.

679
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,360
Just dress me up as a zombie.

680
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,720
Let me walk around, shoot me in the head.

681
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:51,520
That's fine, too.

682
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,400
I'm good with that.

683
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,920
You could probably come down to Georgia because it's a really big area where they do a lot

684
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,680
of the the walking dead cinematography these days.

685
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,280
And honestly, the town that my kids grew up in, they have a lot of the zombie shows out

686
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:07,600
there.

687
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,000
So if there's a casting call, I'll let you know.

688
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,000
I actually thought of another film, Kevin.

689
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,240
I thought of another film, Too Fast, Too Furious.

690
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,400
No, not too fast.

691
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:16,720
Too weird.

692
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,000
I want to be in the fast, too furious.

693
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:19,360
Not the best.

694
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,000
I'm not family enough to be the fastest.

695
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,640
No, that's for me.

696
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,920
Just stand there randomly gears.

697
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:26,960
I thought you meant for me.

698
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,960
I was like, yeah, because yeah, because you can you drive a manual gearbox?

699
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:31,760
Sure.

700
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,240
Oh, you can.

701
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:32,960
OK, that's cool.

702
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,440
That's always very, very typical thing over the state.

703
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,960
The Americans, most people my age and drive a stick.

704
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:39,440
Yeah.

705
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,120
Most people my age and drive.

706
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:41,600
Yeah.

707
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,800
And I can, too, Dan.

708
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,960
So, you know, that's so true.

709
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:45,360
I know.

710
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,120
That's obviously just a stereotype across here then for yourselves that nobody can

711
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,400
nobody can drive stick.

712
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,720
It's always on to hate, you know, to drive stick.

713
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:53,360
No.

714
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:53,600
Yeah.

715
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,320
My sister taught me in Georgia, the hills are there everywhere.

716
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,600
And we went into a cul-de-sac one day and it was 45 minutes before I could even get

717
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,640
out of the cul-de-sac.

718
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,440
She wouldn't let me get out of there until I could drive up that hill.

719
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,600
And ever since then, I've been able to drive one.

720
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:10,640
So, yeah.

721
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:10,960
Nice.

722
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:11,760
OK.

723
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,880
Well, you guys, thank you so much.

724
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,720
Those were my questions about you and your torture podcast.

725
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,360
So next question is, where can we find you online?

726
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,280
I don't really put my personal stuff out there, but I'm on the socials for the show.

727
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,840
So if you just look up any of the social media or at torture pod or email,

728
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,840
torturepod.gmail.com.

729
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,080
So that's been one of the issues we've had with the podcast is getting people to interact

730
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,880
with us through social media or through email or stuff.

731
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,560
We've gotten a few, but not as many as we want.

732
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,680
So, you know, let us know what you think, even if you hate us, let us know what you

733
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,600
think and we give you a thanks.

734
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,000
They go, your show is disgusting and you two are horrible.

735
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,680
We'll be like, hey, we think the show's disgusting and we're both horrible too.

736
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,800
So welcome to the club.

737
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:53,840
Come on, talk to us.

738
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,040
Speak for yourself.

739
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,040
I think that's that goes across the board too, because I don't get a ton.

740
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,280
I'm starting to get a lot more interaction, but, you know, I've been doing this for more

741
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,600
than a year now and I'm just now starting to get some interaction in emails and things

742
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:08,080
like that.

743
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,080
So I don't think it's just you.

744
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,040
I think social media is just completely saturated with stuff.

745
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,960
You see, like that's the thing, like if I was looking the amount of people that I follow

746
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,600
on Instagram alone and how much of those I actually get to see and how many of those

747
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,120
are actually friends.

748
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,440
I get to see all of our stuff because I'm tagged in it all.

749
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,440
But if I didn't, if you didn't tag me and stuff, Kevin, then I don't know how much of

750
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,080
it I'll actually see is probably because all of our feeds are just filled constantly.

751
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,400
There's only so much you can see, which is a shame.

752
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,640
So again, yeah, it's about those people actively seeking it out at the times and stuff,

753
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:40,880
you know.

754
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:41,840
So, yep.

755
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:42,320
All right.

756
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Well, thanks for introducing us to your torture podcast and giving us a glimpse of what we

757
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,280
can look forward to.

758
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,640
I understand that you are going to give us a glimpse of this in just a little while because

759
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,800
Kevin, you agreed you're going to give us a story.

760
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,080
I don't know if you have heard this, but we had a live laugh murder.

761
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,160
I did the host from, yeah, that was so good.

762
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,560
So we had that a couple of weeks ago and if our listeners have not had a chance to check

763
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,800
that out, it's episode number four of the Dash series of Dying to be Found.

764
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,880
And Kevin, I'm not going to lie.

765
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,840
I'm a little scared already, but I'm in it till the end.

766
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:20,800
All right.

767
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,200
Are you guys ready to dash into my little storyline today?

768
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,640
Yes, very much.

769
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,200
Okay.

770
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,160
It's a little bittersweet because I'm going to be talking about a group of childhood

771
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,680
friends and it's probably before your time, but there are some really good movies out

772
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,160
there.

773
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,040
Dan, before Kevin came on today, you and I were talking about the 80s era and I don't

774
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,680
know if you guys have seen those old movies Stand By Me or The Goonies, anything like that.

775
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,240
Oh yeah.

776
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,080
I love Stand By Me.

777
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,640
Great movie, but that's not anything to do what we're talking about today.

778
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,360
I just wanted to kind of give you a glimpse of how a group of friends came together in

779
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,880
the story that I'm about to start.

780
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,520
One other thing too, I had mentioned Stranger Things and that's so cool because all the

781
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:11,520
props that they do in the movie, everything is so 1980s all the way down to the home decor,

782
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,760
the cereal boxes, everything like that.

783
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,040
So I really love that sort of essence where you just go back in time a little bit.

784
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,560
So here is one question to lead into my storyline today.

785
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,160
I don't know how you guys are, but me personally, I keep a very small group of friends.

786
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,680
I think it's better that way.

787
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,760
Do you guys have a group of friends like that where you all have known each other for a

788
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,520
long time, maybe from childhood or just socially?

789
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,040
Do you have a really, really tight circle of friends?

790
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,360
No, personally, not really.

791
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,040
The thing was, oh, there's people I went to school with.

792
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,480
I don't go to school with them anymore.

793
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,720
I really don't have any desire to hang out with any of you.

794
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,800
I mean, I have people that I'm friendly with, that I see them and I'll be like, oh, hey,

795
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,360
what are you doing?

796
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,720
But honestly, I got my wife and I got my dog and I'm good.

797
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,160
I got Dan halfway across the world and that's all I need.

798
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,280
How about you, Dan?

799
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,560
Do you have childhood friends?

800
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,160
Yeah, yeah, I do.

801
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:13,360
Yeah, there's kind of a couple of different kind of social groups, if you get me, that

802
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,360
don't really cross over except for me in the middle of them.

803
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,360
But yeah, just kind of a group kind of like that.

804
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:19,680
All right.

805
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:20,800
Yeah, me too.

806
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,000
We're all on Facebook.

807
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,440
I still keep up with those friends.

808
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,560
But I mean, honestly, we don't talk a lot, but we do obviously see what each other posts.

809
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,680
And I think that's really cool.

810
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,960
But today we're going to be going back to a case that occurred back in 1966.

811
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:42,240
And it's a 17 year old boy named Danny Goldman, who was living as an only child in Surfside,

812
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:43,920
Florida with his parents.

813
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:49,920
Danny was taken from his home at gunpoint during the wee hours of the night and he was

814
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,360
never seen again.

815
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,200
So that's the direction we're headed today.

816
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,000
All right.

817
00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:01,840
Around 430 in the morning on March 28, 1966, someone broke into the Goldman's house through

818
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,520
an unlocked sliding glass door.

819
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:09,840
Whoever this man was, he woke the entire family up, including Aaron Goldman, his wife Sally,

820
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,600
and their only son Danny.

821
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:18,240
And this intruder addressed Aaron and Sally by name and proceeded to tie everyone up and

822
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:22,640
demanded $10,000 in those wee early morning hours.

823
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:29,360
So 430 in the morning, a house intrusion, and then all of a sudden they're tied up and

824
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,440
demanding $10,000.

825
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:40,080
Just so you guys can kind of get in perspective on this, $10,000 in 1966 equals $90,000 US

826
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:47,680
$124 Canadian dollars or 76,000 pounds in today's currency.

827
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,040
So I don't know.

828
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,040
Do you guys have that kind of cash laying around?

829
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,080
I know I don't.

830
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,480
I was going to cut open the box spray and go pull it out.

831
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:54,980
Yeah.

832
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,520
Wake up right in the morning, 430 in the morning, be like, yeah, let me get out my checkbook.

833
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,640
What's wrong with you?

834
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,280
So obviously Danny's parents told the intruder that they didn't have that kind of cash laying

835
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:05,840
around.

836
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,720
So the man told Aaron and Sally, that's okay.

837
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:11,840
I'm just going to take Danny as a hostage for ransom instead.

838
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,920
And the stipulation to that was that since Danny's parents were not prepared to hand

839
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:24,800
over the $10,000, the man upped his ransom to $25,000 US dollars.

840
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,300
Yeah.

841
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,680
Now they need to go to the bank because they definitely don't have that much money sitting

842
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:30,720
in their stock.

843
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:31,440
Right.

844
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,560
They're a little short.

845
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:32,960
All right.

846
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,960
Before the kidnapper took Danny away, he told Aaron and Sally that they should expect a

847
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,920
call later that night at 6 PM and there they would get further instructions.

848
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,280
Unfortunately, that call never came and Danny was never seen or heard from again.

849
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:49,760
The end.

850
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,520
Just kidding.

851
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,920
How old was the kid?

852
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,560
17.

853
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:56,480
We don't have the $10,000.

854
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:56,880
Okay.

855
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,160
Well, tell you what, it's okay.

856
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,280
You don't have the $10,000.

857
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:00,160
I understand.

858
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,560
I'm going to take your son and you're going to give me $25,000.

859
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,520
What goes through your mind?

860
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,440
Like they're just going to just come up with this money out of nowhere.

861
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:10,000
I know.

862
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,040
I don't understand.

863
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,600
I think it's an impossible amount on purpose, Kevin.

864
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:14,480
That's my thought.

865
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,440
Oh, okay.

866
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,160
That makes sense.

867
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:16,800
Thanks, Dan.

868
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:17,840
He just wanted the boy.

869
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:18,560
That's all it was.

870
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:19,360
He wanted the boy.

871
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,400
That's a possibility.

872
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:20,960
All right.

873
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:26,880
Well, Danny's parents unfortunately passed away just a decade ago without ever knowing

874
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,160
what happened to their son.

875
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,360
Aaron passed away in 2010 and Sally passed away in 2012.

876
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,600
So they never found out what happened to him.

877
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,840
And that's sad because he's an only child and I just couldn't imagine.

878
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:41,520
Okay.

879
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,560
Well, this is where Danny's childhood buddies come in.

880
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,360
So there's a group of friends, David Grobart, his brother Joe,

881
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:54,480
and their friends, Anthony Blayte, Harvey Liskar, and Paul Novak.

882
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,400
One day, Joe received a package from Danny's mom,

883
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,120
which she had sent him before she had passed away.

884
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,400
So I think that's pretty cool that they all kept in touch.

885
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:09,120
I mean, good group of friends keeping in touch with their childhood friends' parents.

886
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:09,840
That's amazing.

887
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:15,840
I think going through something like that kind of solidifies a lot of relationships.

888
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,120
Yeah, for sure.

889
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:23,040
Inside the package, Sally had a letter asking the group never to forget Danny.

890
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,240
Yeah, that's heartfelt.

891
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:28,960
Joe took this letter from the package and took it to the local police,

892
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:34,560
got his brother and his friends together and pledged to track down whatever happened to Danny.

893
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,480
So at this point in time, they are all going to get in it together.

894
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:46,400
And somewhere around 2011, Surfside's mayor and attorney at the time took a personal interest

895
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,840
in this case and spent his own money to investigate Danny's disappearance over the years.

896
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,800
So remember, this happened back in 1966 and all the way into 2011,

897
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,760
the mayor was investigating on his own.

898
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,720
So that is a really tight knit community right there.

899
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,080
I kind of can't think of any other mayor that would do that.

900
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,840
Most of them was like, I don't care.

901
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:08,560
I'm in politics.

902
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:09,600
That doesn't matter to me.

903
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:10,400
Yeah.

904
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:16,800
For the next decade and following leads all the way up, just until last year in 2022,

905
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:23,680
Danny's friends, David, Joe, Anthony, Harvey and Paul, all continued to pursue answers

906
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,040
in their friend's disappearance.

907
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,880
Plus they established a little name for themselves,

908
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,720
probably because they're living in the South.

909
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:31,840
They were called the Posse.

910
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,200
So they gave themselves a name.

911
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Okay.

912
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,880
Like the Goonies, you know?

913
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,760
Yeah, I suppose.

914
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:36,640
But yeah.

915
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:37,600
Or the Toff Brats.

916
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,320
There you go.

917
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:38,800
All right.

918
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,240
Regardless, the Posse reviewed case files tirelessly.

919
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:48,160
Something worth mentioning is that Paul Novak, one of Danny's friends, went on to become

920
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:53,760
an attorney and a six term mayor of Surfside, the town where Danny disappeared.

921
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Isn't that something?

922
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Yeah.

923
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:55,760
Good for him.

924
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,240
And this is where things really begin to heat up.

925
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:04,000
Paul pulled his weight here and with these credentials, he told the FBI in pretty much

926
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:10,160
no uncertain terms that he had every legal right to Danny's file and was not going to

927
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,280
take no for an answer as to when they told him initially that he did not have access.

928
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,720
He couldn't get into that file.

929
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:21,600
He was not a family member, but he did have access because he was a public figure.

930
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:22,160
Right.

931
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,200
Paul and his Posse got what they needed.

932
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:32,640
They dissected emails, looked over more than 10,000 pages of FBI files and worked closely

933
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,760
with the Miami Dade police to try to solve this case.

934
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:41,280
And obviously this group of friends was on a mission to honor Sally Goldman's wishes

935
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,920
and to find out what happened to their childhood friend.

936
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:49,280
Long story short, because that's what we do here on The Dash, you all, it's just a quick story.

937
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,680
Danny's friends pieced everything together and I mean everything.

938
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:59,840
They found out enough information about this case to discover that Danny had been kidnapped

939
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,880
by a mobster named George DeFyce.

940
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,880
I don't know if you guys have heard of him.

941
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,880
I don't know if you guys have heard of this guy.

942
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,400
I mean, I like to use the word crony.

943
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,720
He's just a go-to man.

944
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,840
He's told what to go do and then he does it and that's it.

945
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,120
So that's who ended up ultimately taking him and what happened to Danny.

946
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:21,760
Yeah.

947
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,760
As it turns out, Danny had been killed rather quickly.

948
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:31,280
He had been taken by boat to the nearby ocean with the help of his mobster friend,

949
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,680
Joe Chicken Cachetori.

950
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,120
Don't know if you heard of him.

951
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,400
I get these like cool names like Billy the Goan and Johnny Tightlips and all this kind of stuff.

952
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,000
And it's like, oh, what's your name?

953
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,560
Oh, yeah.

954
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:43,920
Is that Chicken Parmesan?

955
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:44,240
Yeah.

956
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,120
He's vegetarian now, so it's egg plant.

957
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,120
Parmesan.

958
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,680
This doesn't sound like a very mobster thing.

959
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:52,000
I know.

960
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,480
Were Danny's parents of any consequence to anybody?

961
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,000
I mean, did they have pull anywhere?

962
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,600
Were they important in any way?

963
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:06,560
It doesn't seem like a very mobster thing to break into some random person's house and

964
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,560
kidnap their kid and ask for money.

965
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,840
That's usually left for like people in politics or people of high stature.

966
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,720
Oh, you're mobster.

967
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:17,520
Go kidnap their kid and then to kill them real quick.

968
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,520
Does not seem like a traditional mobster thing to do.

969
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:22,400
It does not.

970
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,480
But I'll tell you what, I'm glad you asked that question, Kevin, because I'm going to get there.

971
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:26,800
Oh, right.

972
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,000
You're on the right track.

973
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,840
DeFice presumably dumped Danny overboard in the Atlantic Ocean near Miami, Florida.

974
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,640
So he and Joe Chicken Cacciatore, they just got together, decided that that's what they

975
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,520
were going to do.

976
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,040
And really, I did try to look up these two guys.

977
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,800
I could not find any information.

978
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,080
They're not Jimmy Hoffa.

979
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:46,720
You know what I mean?

980
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:47,780
Yeah.

981
00:42:47,780 --> 00:42:49,280
No, they're not.

982
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:49,780
Yeah.

983
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:52,400
Oh, and a name like that, I'm shocked he hasn't gone down in history.

984
00:42:52,400 --> 00:43:01,040
I'm guessing his last name was probably Cacciatore and they just added chicken in there or something.

985
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,440
Because there's no way.

986
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:04,160
There's no way.

987
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,400
What happened was the parents were in the supermarket and they saw Chicken Cacciatore

988
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,960
on the shelf and they thought Chicken Cacciatore is crap.

989
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:13,840
It's really shit.

990
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,640
And he was in near shot and he's like, you ought to get these guys.

991
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:17,360
That's what happened.

992
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:19,760
I was just at Singham's yesterday.

993
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,760
I was looking at the Chicken Cacciatore.

994
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:22,480
Yeah.

995
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,040
All right.

996
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:28,640
So Kevin, I'm going to go ahead and answer that question for you because as it turns out,

997
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,840
Danny's father, Aaron, worked at a local bank in town and he was on the board of directors there.

998
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:41,440
Aaron, who was just doing his job, began to notice some questionable activities going on

999
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:42,880
in the bank records.

1000
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:48,800
So we'll call these activities unethical, but remember this was back in 1966.

1001
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,880
So they didn't have all those laws and guidelines established by the SEC.

1002
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,800
And there were lots of loans coming into question here.

1003
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,760
Aaron was just doing his diligent duties.

1004
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:05,520
He was doing everything that he needed to do as a bank employee and board of director member.

1005
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,160
He felt it was necessary to report his findings to the federal agents.

1006
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:10,960
And that's what he did.

1007
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:18,560
Obviously the feds began to build a case and Aaron went on to testify on behalf of the bank

1008
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,960
in court just two days before that home invasion.

1009
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,080
So here's the kicker.

1010
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,600
Any ideas on what's happening yet?

1011
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:27,600
Yeah.

1012
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:28,560
I just even hear that.

1013
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:29,920
It's kind of like how...

1014
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:30,160
Yeah.

1015
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:32,640
It's just ridiculous.

1016
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,520
I think that he could be up in court and suddenly his home is invaded and there's no

1017
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,120
kind of, you know, putting those pieces together for a quick resolution to this.

1018
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,760
Well, Aaron had no idea that the bank was controlled by the mob

1019
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:53,200
and its ringleader was a little mobster that I've already mentioned, Jimmy Hoffa.

1020
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:54,240
Jimmy Parmesan.

1021
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,520
Oh man.

1022
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:03,920
So in a nutshell, Hoffa was using the bank as a front for his money laundering activities.

1023
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:11,680
Aaron Goldman was not kept in the loop here and had no idea that the Florida mob boss

1024
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,880
of the Tampa mafia, Santo Traficante, I'm going to say that's his name,

1025
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,400
and his buddy, Jimmy Hoffa, were using the bank as a coverup.

1026
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,840
So he had no idea.

1027
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:27,840
Nobody put him in the loop and all the employees inside the bank were reporting back to Hoffa

1028
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,520
and Aaron's concerns and that's where the home invasion came in.

1029
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,840
I mean, there's obvious reason why he wasn't kept in the loop.

1030
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,960
He couldn't be trusted to not tell the feds.

1031
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:37,280
True.

1032
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,400
Maybe they knew that he couldn't be paid off either.

1033
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,520
But he couldn't have been surprised.

1034
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,600
This is the heady day of money laundering.

1035
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:49,760
That's before a bunch of regulations and the internet and you keep track of documents and

1036
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,240
all these things.

1037
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,240
Of course, they're going to be money laundering.

1038
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:53,440
It's a bank in Florida.

1039
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,000
Yeah.

1040
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:54,800
Okay.

1041
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:55,440
Fair enough.

1042
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:55,760
All right.

1043
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,680
The smoking gun here is that in the Goldman case, there was a rubber glove or at least

1044
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,080
the tip of that glove that was left at the scene during Danny's kidnapping.

1045
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,800
And this glove was later connected to a manufacturer based out of Canada.

1046
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,480
So it was easily traceable.

1047
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:19,200
Apparently, George DeFyce, the intruder that took Danny, he had been treated by a doctor

1048
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,280
in Brooklyn, New York and had these gloves stocked in his office.

1049
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,920
So of course, he's just going to grab one on his way out, right?

1050
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:32,640
Investigators were able to trace the glove tip left behind in Danny's home and it went

1051
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,520
all the way back to Brooklyn and basically the rest is history.

1052
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,720
So everyone tied to Danny Goldman's kidnapping at this time is deceased.

1053
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,400
So authorities were never able to take this case to trial.

1054
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:44,960
Man.

1055
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:45,840
I know, right?

1056
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:52,080
Well, both George DeFyce and Joe Caccitori passed away before the case was solved.

1057
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,880
DeFyce died in a nursing home in 1980 due to complications with diabetes.

1058
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,920
I'm really not sure what happened to old chicken Caccitori there, but I did find an article

1059
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,760
that he probably died somewhere around 1967.

1060
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,000
And we know just from this case, it was very shortly after Danny's kidnapping.

1061
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,320
And he was shot by Tony Belloni.

1062
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,040
That's what I want.

1063
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,560
You've been waiting to the end to say that.

1064
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,360
I was going to say something else.

1065
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:19,760
Building.

1066
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,160
And his back pocket was full of time.

1067
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:24,160
I wish.

1068
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,040
All right.

1069
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,920
Well, I would imagine chicken Caccitori's death came from Jimmy Hoffa trying to

1070
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,560
keep the amount of people who knows about it, you know, under rat.

1071
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,600
He's probably got a pair of cement shoes at the bottom of a river somewhere out.

1072
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,360
Yes, I agree.

1073
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:39,920
I agree.

1074
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,920
Just because there was little information to be found in the timeline.

1075
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,360
That definitely makes sense.

1076
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:46,640
All right, you all.

1077
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,440
That is my case of Danny Goldman.

1078
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,240
If I've learned one thing from this, I tell you now, it's that when I watch TV drama,

1079
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:58,400
things with cops and them and they're like, oh, we haven't got enough evidence from this

1080
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,920
like smoking gun that we have sitting here, a partial piece of a glass or whatever like that.

1081
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:09,040
If you can track down a guy from the tip of a rubber glove in real life back from 1966,

1082
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:09,840
New York.

1083
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,560
Yeah, from like how in God's name.

1084
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:13,840
Like it's just.

1085
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:15,360
Yeah.

1086
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,000
Well, you said that it reminds me of when they got a lead on Richard Ramirez just because

1087
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,880
the shoe imprint because the very odd shoe that he wore that he left the imprint in the mud

1088
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,720
and they were able to trace it back to certain people that had bought that shoe,

1089
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:30,960
which helped catch him.

1090
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,960
I mean, he caught himself really by being an idiot into the street and getting

1091
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,400
mobbed by all those people.

1092
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,240
But yeah, I don't want to hear about any.

1093
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:39,280
We don't have enough evidence.

1094
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,960
Screw that dude.

1095
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,000
Do police work.

1096
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,960
Yeah, exactly.

1097
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,200
Cause that's very minimal evidence right there.

1098
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,560
And back in the sixties, we didn't have all that DNA and everything to go with it.

1099
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,320
So yeah, they did a phenomenal job.

1100
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:50,880
Yeah.

1101
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:51,760
All right.

1102
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,240
Well, that's my storyline, but I heard that you have one for us.

1103
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:58,880
So Kevin, I'm going to kind of hand things over to you.

1104
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,160
Give us a little glimpse of torture podcast, Dan.

1105
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,120
Oh goodness.

1106
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,200
I don't know if I'm ready, but here we go.

1107
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,800
So Deb, when you said come up with a little bit of mini episode, I was

1108
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,200
kind of at a loss with the cover.

1109
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,480
I wasn't sure how torture-y to go with it.

1110
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,120
And I can't start an episode without doing our opening.

1111
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:17,760
Cue music.

1112
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:18,720
Oh no.

1113
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,640
So Deb, with your permission, Dan, you ready?

1114
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:21,040
Yeah.

1115
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:21,760
Okay.

1116
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,800
The subject of today's mini episode is a device that was allegedly used in the later

1117
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,160
years of medieval Europe until early 1800s.

1118
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,920
It was used for interrogation, punishment, and even execution.

1119
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:40,400
If the bleeding couldn't be stopped for one very specific and very serious crime used

1120
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,760
on the most sensitive part of the male anatomy, two pieces of iron hinged in the middle of

1121
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,600
spikes at one end on that alone would be enough to make a person cringe.

1122
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:54,160
But sometimes to add to the tear, this device would be designed to look like one of the

1123
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,400
deadliest reptiles on the face of the earth.

1124
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,840
If it actually was ever even used today, we cover the crocodile shears.

1125
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,080
Oh, I'm Kevin Young.

1126
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,120
And I'm Billy Bolognese.

1127
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:07,680
Deb, you're in on this too.

1128
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:08,240
Go ahead.

1129
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:10,000
And I'm just along for the ride.

1130
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:11,680
We're here for coming effect.

1131
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,920
And this is torture on the dash.

1132
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:17,280
All right.

1133
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,160
So here we go.

1134
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,600
I couldn't, I can't, I can't do an episode without doing that little opening.

1135
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,360
Oh, see, you know what I mean though?

1136
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,920
Do you have a great broadcast voice?

1137
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:26,080
Thank you.

1138
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:27,120
You could go far.

1139
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,240
Well, I appreciate that.

1140
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:28,640
Yeah.

1141
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,000
Like I said, I'd love to be listening to him driving home in the middle of the night,

1142
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,840
in between snippets of smooth jazz, just Kevin's talking.

1143
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,520
Tell my parents so they'll be proud of me.

1144
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,720
And Dan, your accent is amazing too.

1145
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:42,320
I could listen to you all day.

1146
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:43,040
Not true.

1147
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,880
My wife, she's tired of it.

1148
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,320
That's so rude.

1149
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,880
OK, so let's go back to medieval Europe.

1150
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,760
Dan, I love to put Dan in these situations.

1151
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:57,040
Let's say you did something stupid like, I don't know, try to kill the king.

1152
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,080
Oh, you're going to say I stole an orange again, but OK.

1153
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,960
No, I was going to say it's fairly outside of your character for you.

1154
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,760
You're more likely to steal an orange than you are kill a king.

1155
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,280
Here we are.

1156
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,360
Now, somehow you are caught before you're able to finish the deed,

1157
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,080
maybe planning stage, maybe in the process, who knows.

1158
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:15,280
Any case, you're caught.

1159
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,360
I left the tip of my rubber glove behind.

1160
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,880
I knew they used proper plea procedure, please work.

1161
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,640
And they found me very quickly based on very obvious evidence.

1162
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,840
Here's the thing about these episodes that we do is I always write these

1163
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,480
knowing there's going to be humor somewhere, so I don't write jokes into them.

1164
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,400
I never know what we're going to come up with, but at some point I know it's coming.

1165
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:37,600
So that was one of them.

1166
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,880
OK, so you're taken to a dungeon of some sort and tied up,

1167
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,000
most likely to a post standing up, maybe laying down, you know, whatever they have.

1168
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,040
But while you're there, you notice them take a piece of iron,

1169
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,720
maybe about foot long, and place it in a roaring fire.

1170
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:57,840
Now, while this is going on, they may bring in a young, beautiful woman.

1171
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,000
She may dance around or touch you or do any other number of things,

1172
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,360
as long as you are aroused.

1173
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,240
Or the torturer could have done it himself either way, you know, whatever.

1174
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:13,280
Because it's a distraction from the iron rod being heated up.

1175
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:19,200
No, it's getting the man aroused is going to be a pretty significant part of it.

1176
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,560
If you could see where I'm going.

1177
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,680
There are some sources that say these may have been used on fingers or toes

1178
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,960
during the Spanish Inquisition to get information.

1179
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:34,320
And there is a slight chance that for lesser crimes like thievery,

1180
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,720
they could have been used on fingers as punishment.

1181
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:39,840
But crimes against the state like regicide,

1182
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,600
which is the murder or attempted murder of someone of royalty,

1183
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,960
they were seen as deserving of a much more traumatizing punishment.

1184
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,640
So when the young woman or the torturer himself thought you were good and ready,

1185
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,280
the piece of iron was removed from the fire.

1186
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,080
And that's when you turn and you say, you're going to need a bigger iron.

1187
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,160
Now, before we get to the quote unquote good stuff,

1188
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,680
let's take a look at these things.

1189
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,600
So what you have is essentially a piece or two pieces of cast iron,

1190
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,320
about a foot long, connected by a pivot point,

1191
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,600
like the scariest piece of scissors you've ever seen in your life.

1192
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,760
The dangerous end, however, aren't sharp like blades.

1193
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:21,840
They're half cylindrical.

1194
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,640
So it's like they took an iron tube and cut it down the middle.

1195
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:25,200
Yeah.

1196
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,440
So when they close, they go back to form a tube.

1197
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,400
Now, inside this tube are maybe dozens of spikes or teeth,

1198
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,240
which just happens to make them look like a crocodile.

1199
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:39,360
See how it all comes together.

1200
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,200
We start at one point, we work all the way back around.

1201
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:41,760
It's a big circle.

1202
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,720
So they get vicious needle nose pliers kind of on the ground.

1203
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:46,720
Exactly.

1204
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,440
Now, back to why we're all listening to the good stuff.

1205
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,640
Like I had said, this specific torture had a much more sensitive target area.

1206
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,440
Now, after you, Dan, of course, are all prepped,

1207
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,360
your manhood, as we'll say, fully exposed,

1208
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:07,440
the red heart shears are placed on the member and squeezed shut.

1209
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:09,120
I'm sorry.

1210
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,760
I'm just looking at Dan's reaction here.

1211
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:12,000
My apologies.

1212
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:12,720
I'm storming.

1213
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:13,440
I'm.

1214
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,080
It's my favorite part of the show.

1215
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:17,520
There's a natural reaction.

1216
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:17,760
Yeah.

1217
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,440
I think there's a natural reaction every man has when you hear something like that being

1218
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:22,000
described.

1219
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,840
And it's like when you're watching a TV show and you see a guy getting kicked there as well.

1220
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,200
It's the automatic reaction.

1221
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,200
It's so for me, it's when I see somebody gets up,

1222
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,520
when something happens to the Achilles tendon, I have this automatic like, oh, God.

1223
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:35,840
Yeah.

1224
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,080
When the pencil goes in.

1225
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:38,240
No.

1226
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:39,040
Okay.

1227
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:40,000
Then the twist.

1228
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:47,200
Anyways, so when the pressure is sufficient, the torturer, much like we learned in our

1229
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,600
breast-ripper episode, go check it out.

1230
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:50,640
It's horrifying.

1231
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,360
Yes, it is.

1232
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,200
The shared the shears are then pulled.

1233
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,480
The reason that there is that look I see, Dan,

1234
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:06,320
people at home cancer or wherever you can't see it, but Dan is literally cringing into a ball.

1235
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,320
He is squirming and I'll tell you, if I can interrupt for just a second,

1236
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,560
this is going to make all future episodes that I listened to.

1237
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,160
I mean, so much more visual.

1238
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,200
Thank you for that.

1239
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:17,840
You're welcome.

1240
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:25,600
The resulting injury, obviously being severe, leaving the old jolly Roger in pieces.

1241
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,400
Some of the time the man was left to very slowly bleed to death.

1242
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,680
Other times the rest of the organ was just removed more than likely while still awake

1243
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,360
and the man was sent off to never walk correctly again.

1244
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:43,840
Then they may have used it on the fingers and toes after using on the genitals.

1245
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,480
But honestly, at that point, what does it matter?

1246
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,240
He's like, yeah, take a finger and a toe.

1247
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:49,200
I don't care.

1248
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:50,640
What did you do to me?

1249
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,240
Ends up looking like the Demogorgon's face from Stranger Things.

1250
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,560
I'd say it's the first thing I thought of when you-

1251
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,360
Now, there are a few sources that mentioned the shears.

1252
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,040
The Book of Torture and Execution by Richard Sire.

1253
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,960
The Wrong View of History by Jack Parascovich.

1254
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,680
And the Dictionary of Torture by Naget Spikes.

1255
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,560
All claim that the crocodile shears were real and used at some point through history.

1256
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,800
But for those of you that have never listened to our show,

1257
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:25,280
they actually keep pretty organized records on who was tortured, how, and when.

1258
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,360
And just like other devices and methods that we have covered in the past,

1259
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,680
like Headcrusher or the Pair of Anguish,

1260
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:40,240
there isn't any real documentation on the crocodile shears ever being used on anyone ever.

1261
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:42,080
So that might put your mind at ease, Dan.

1262
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,600
The fact is, we love to hear stories and see images of these horrific,

1263
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:50,320
intricate, innovative, and complex medieval devices and the sheer pain and torment they can afflict.

1264
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,720
But in reality, all the torture needed was rope, some wood, maybe a hammer,

1265
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:57,520
probably the best, most famous device of all, the wreck.

1266
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,560
And they could get any info to punish anyone they wanted.

1267
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,080
That's all rats. Rats.

1268
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,080
Or a door, as we've just covered.

1269
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,640
Good old door. That works.

1270
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,920
That actually popped in my head when you were doing your story, Deb,

1271
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,080
and you had said that they were, they woke them up in the middle of the night and asked for a ransom.

1272
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:14,480
Yeah.

1273
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,560
Pair of Anguish was the first thing that popped in my head.

1274
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:22,800
Because that's what it was supposedly originally used for, was to extract money out of people.

1275
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,600
They'd put it in the mouth, pull the pin, they would expand and then couldn't call for help.

1276
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,960
Like, can't get it out without the key and you're not getting the key until you give me the money.

1277
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,880
But you can learn about that on our Pair of Anguish episode if you want to go. Anybody wants to go listen?

1278
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,640
So those are the crocodile shears. Horrifying, quick and to the point.

1279
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,640
If they ever actually existed.

1280
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,640
Literally and figuratively.

1281
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:48,240
A lot of these different devices that you can see, like you can pull up a picture of the crocodile shears now

1282
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:52,640
and they look like, you know, got the little crocodile face on them or whatever.

1283
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,640
Same thing with Pair of Anguish, Head Crusher, Iron Maiden, all these stuff.

1284
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,640
And they look pretty and intricate and oh my god, they look so dangerous.

1285
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:06,640
But honestly, with torture devices back then, they didn't put hours and hours and hours into the design of these things.

1286
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,640
It was just like, hit them with the hammer and get the information they need.

1287
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,640
They didn't have time and they didn't want to spend the money to make these things so intricate.

1288
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,640
Just hit them with the hammer, put them in the rack, pull them until their arms separate.

1289
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,640
That's all we need. Just get the information.

1290
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,640
And that's what you all can look forward to when you listen to torture.

1291
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,640
This falls right into your storylines, which is amazing.

1292
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,640
It keeps me guessing.

1293
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,640
I don't know what I signed up for sometimes.

1294
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,640
Do you want to do this?

1295
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,640
This sounds fun. Okay.

1296
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,640
So at the beginning of the episode, before I started the show, I was going to just do it on my own

1297
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,640
and have more serious tone, dark tone to it.

1298
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,640
I was like, this is way, even for me, this is just too much.

1299
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,640
So I asked my wife, you want to do it with me? Bring a little humor to it.

1300
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,640
She said, no.

1301
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,640
The only person I can really think of that I think would have fun doing this with was Dan.

1302
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,640
After my asking my wife, because that's obviously the first person you ask,

1303
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,640
Dan was the next person that I asked and I was lucky enough for him to say yes.

1304
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,640
It's been fun ever since.

1305
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:08,640
When I said it to my wife, Kevin asked me about doing it.

1306
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,640
She was basically her reaction was like, yeah, he really knows.

1307
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,640
Sense of humor that if he's asking you to do this.

1308
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,640
I don't know what that says about me, but okay.

1309
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:24,640
So that is just a little taste of what you guys have in store when you listen to Torture Podcast.

1310
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,640
Kevin and Dan, thank you so much for being here on The Dash with me.

1311
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,640
Honestly, it's such a good time getting to know you guys and to our listeners,

1312
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,640
you should head over to Torture Podcast.

1313
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,640
Found just about everywhere in your podcast library,

1314
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,640
because who doesn't like a little history behind human cruelty, right?

1315
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,640
That's right. And a bit of fun behind it too.

1316
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,640
It's a lot harder than it's possible.

1317
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,640
Kind of have to, yeah.

1318
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,640
Well, we appreciate you having us on.

1319
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:53,640
Absolutely.

1320
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,640
Honestly, this has been looking forward to it for a couple of weeks.

1321
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:57,640
It's been fun.

1322
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,640
I'm glad that we could all get our schedules put together.

1323
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,640
Be sure to check out their social media on Instagram.

1324
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:08,640
Otherwise, be sure to check out our podcasts on Instagram at Dying to be Found

1325
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,640
and all those other social medias.

1326
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,640
We love to know what you guys have to say about our episodes.

1327
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,640
So slide into those DMs and give us a show.

1328
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,640
If you would like to be highlighted on this episode of The Dash,

1329
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,640
just like Kevin and Dan here,

1330
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,640
shoot us an email found in our show notes and talk to you soon.

1331
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,640
Do you guys have any last words?

1332
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,640
Nah, we just usually take care of ourselves, take care of one another.

1333
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:31,640
We'll see.

1334
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,640
Give it up for Irish goodbye.

1335
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:34,640
Slaa na waa yaa.

1336
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,640
Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found.

1337
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,640
Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.

1338
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:48,640
Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found.

1339
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:53,640
You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form

1340
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,640
by clicking on our Linktree account found in our show notes.

1341
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:03,640
If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash Dying to be Found,

1342
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,640
spelled just like you see it on our logo.

1343
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,640
Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing,

1344
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:10,640
or if you'd like a sticker.

1345
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:15,640
With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.

1346
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:44,640
We will talk to you all next week.