1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Hey guys, it's Marianne, dog mom, baker, true crime podcast maker. What would you do if someone 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:16,240 killed your best friend and it's been 33 years and it seems like nobody is doing Jack? You would 3 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:23,280 start a podcast and go find the answers yourself and that's exactly what we're doing here at Crime 4 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:30,880 Steaming Cupcakes. So join us as we look for the answers and also find the answers and some other 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:38,160 unsolved cases as well here in Kansas. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, as well as 6 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:45,680 many other platforms. You can also find us on all the social media apps such as Instagram, TikTok, 7 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:53,920 YouTube, you name it, we're there. So come find us. Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to Be Found. 8 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,600 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful 9 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:06,320 acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive 10 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:15,920 audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised. 11 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:30,960 Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host from the true crime podcast Dying to Be Found. I want to welcome 12 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:36,800 you back to The Dash, which is a collection of short true crime stories. I've added this series 13 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,960 as a way to get you through a short commute, small household chores, or even just a way to take a 14 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:50,160 break from your regular routine. Plus, I've lined up a great group of fellow podcasters and today I 15 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:56,560 have Mary Ann from the true crime podcast Crime Scenes and Cupcakes. She's agreed to join me on 16 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:05,760 The Dash. So here we go. Hi Mary Ann. Hi Deb, so excited to be here. I am so glad. Thanks so much 17 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:11,200 for agreeing to come on today. I'm still doing a little learning curve with The Dash, but it's 18 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:17,680 really cool that I have been talking to fellow podcasters in our true crime community. It's 19 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:23,280 just a way to offer a variation of insights on different cases. So today I feel like I have a 20 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,560 real expert in the room, which before we started recording, I really found out how much of an expert 21 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,120 you really are. And that is just amazing. So I can't wait to see how this goes today. Well, 22 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:39,520 I appreciate that. I don't know how much of an expert I am, but I've definitely put in the years. 23 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:47,200 Well, that is great. And I do appreciate your work. So what I'm going to do though, is I'm going to 24 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,680 actually give you a couple of minutes to talk about your own podcast. And so I thought I'd ask 25 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,040 you a couple of questions before we get started and dash into our storyline with Dying to be Found. 26 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:03,120 So I just wanted to see if you could answer how you decided to start your own podcast. 27 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:10,080 That's a great question. I do not have the voice for podcasting at all. Actually, I don't know if 28 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:16,960 people notice, I actually have a lisp as well. Not a great voice for it at all. But I have a friend 29 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:25,760 who was murdered on October 1st of 1989. And I can never find any information about her case. 30 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,320 Every time I would want to see if there was an update, every time I would want to see if there 31 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,880 was any information on it, there was buckets. Every time I would want to talk to the police, 32 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,240 there was never any information. And not being a family member, I could never get anything. 33 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:47,520 And so one of the things is that I saw though, I saw this great trend how podcasts were actually 34 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:53,520 getting victims names out there. And podcasts were actually helping getting cold cases solved. 35 00:03:53,520 --> 00:04:01,280 And so I appealed to a few podcasters to see if they would take this case on. And when I couldn't 36 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:07,680 get that done, I thought, all right, damn it, I'm gonna do it myself. So I picked up the basic 37 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:14,400 things you need for a podcast, started researching what do you do? And thus Crime Scenes and Cupcakes 38 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,520 was born. Well, I'm glad that you said that title of your podcast, because I wanted to know where 39 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:25,120 that name came from. Crime Scenes and Cupcakes. It's actually kind of funny because I had to talk 40 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:31,600 to a detective the other day and I was like, okay, don't judge me on the title of my podcast. We are 41 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:38,800 an investigative podcast. But I just waffled on whether or not to change the name, but it's me. 42 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:46,240 I've worked federal law enforcement for 20 years. And so Crime Scenes has been a huge part of my 43 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:54,560 past. Sure. Then I found out I had a heart condition and I was required to retire from 44 00:04:54,560 --> 00:05:00,480 my wonderful career that I loved. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to retire and just chill out. 45 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,280 I started baking cupcakes for friends, these boozy cupcakes, and people started loving them 46 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:12,000 and started buying them from me. And the next thing I know, I own a damn bakery. So a real walk-in 47 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:21,600 bakery. It's not, it's a traveling bakery, actually. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, we have a mobile boozy 48 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:28,240 bakery that does like these huge events. One of our biggest events is a film festival we do here 49 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:35,760 in Wichita. And it's a week long event and we are known for these huge displays we do for these 50 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:41,680 events and everything. And so yeah, we'll plug this one too. Is it called the boozy bakery? 51 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:49,440 It's called Cocktail Cupcakes. So yes, we are Cocktail Cupcakes. And actually we are going to 52 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:58,640 be doing a line of podcast cupcakes. And so we just posted it on our Cocktail Cupcakes Instagram. 53 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,360 Dying to be Found is actually going to be featured with their own cupcake as well. 54 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:11,040 Oh my gosh. We are doing an inspired cupcake for each of our favorite podcasts in our lineup. 55 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:17,840 And so yes, our little surprise. Thank you so much. That's awesome. I gotta check that out. 56 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:26,480 Yes. So it's going to be a featured podcast menu. And so yes, you will be able to order the Dying 57 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:33,440 to be Found cupcake and it will be inspired and have its own look and everything inspired by the 58 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:40,080 Dying to be Found, the Dash cupcake. That is incredible. You are so creative. Look at you. 59 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,880 You're coming out of your retirement well. So I found a way to put my two loves together. 60 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:52,560 So it's kind of fun. Side note to our listeners, we belong to a chat group in Instagram. 61 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,080 And I feel like there was just a couple of days ago where you were talking about shipping cupcakes, 62 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,440 but you couldn't do it over state lines. Was that you? Yes. But no, I can do it now. I have 63 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:09,280 researched it. I have worked on it. I am getting them done together. And actually the neighbor kids 64 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:15,280 have started helping me. And so we have started working on getting these cupcakes put together. 65 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:25,520 And so we're doing some podcasters wanted candy and some wanted cupcakes because I started making 66 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:34,400 a candy line now, a boozy candy line. Oh my gosh. And so yes, so I am just... I'm going to check out 67 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:40,560 your website. And so yeah, so it's going to have this. So yes, you guys, we're going to be packaging 68 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,920 these up and we're going to be able to ship them out to you. I'm not quite sure if I'm going to be 69 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:49,120 able to ship them out to other countries yet, but I am going to be able to ship them out over state 70 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:54,880 lines. I did get that worked out. So what's your website? It is called Cocktail Cupcakes, but it's 71 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:03,760 with a K. Cocktail and cupcakes are spelled with Ks. Gotcha. And we have it on Instagram, Facebook, 72 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:12,240 and TikTok. So you can find us there. So... Excellent. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. That is how 73 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,960 you can find us. So we are going to have our favorite podcasters and they are going to have 74 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:23,440 their own line of goodies. So we're very excited. I cannot wait. That's exciting. And thank you so 75 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:30,800 much for thinking of us at Dying to be Found. You're amazing. And it's going to be Dying to be 76 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:39,360 eaten. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Do you give away your recipes? No. Okay. I've had several people 77 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:46,160 try to get the recipes and it's like, I have that science nerd at heart. So, because most people are 78 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,440 like, well, the booze can get baked out of the cupcake. And I'm like, oh, not mine. I actually 79 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,040 have to have a liquor license for mine because my cupcakes, depending on what I make, I have some 80 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:05,200 cupcakes that are like 94 proof. Wow. That's after baking? Yeah. After baking. Holy cow. You are 81 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:11,360 scientific. So that's why I was like, I don't know if I can ship them over state lines. I have to be 82 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:17,520 really careful. But no, mine are scientifically created. So the booze is not. And they come with 83 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:23,680 a little shot in the top as well. I've created a shot that goes into the cupcake that you pull 84 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,840 out and you can do the shot and like a little, it's not a syringe, it's like a little squirter 85 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:34,560 thing. What? Like a dropper? Yeah. It's like a little. Oh my gosh, Mary Ann, you're talented. 86 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:41,200 It's really fun. It's, it's. It sounds like fun. It's my second passion. So that's how we ended up 87 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:50,160 with crime scenes and cupcakes. So. Oh, that is amazing. What a great story. Hey, what gives you 88 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:58,160 inspiration behind the stories that you do tell? It is the ones left behind, the families, the friends. 89 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:05,680 Whenever I am looking at a case and what has really started happening is when it started with 90 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:13,440 Katrina Marshall, she was a niece of a woman who was murdered and she reached out to me to tell her 91 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:20,640 aunt's story. And once that started, I had more family members and friends reaching out to me to 92 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:27,120 tell their loved ones unsolved cases. Wow. It's been incredible. That's where a lot of my kids 93 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:32,320 and that's where a lot of my cases come from is family and friends reaching out and asking me to 94 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:40,640 tell their stories. And I get to know these victims so closely and it's so heart wrenching 95 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:48,160 that motivates me every day. And I still talk to them. It's amazing. I get, you know, I'm still 96 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,760 chatting with them. I love that. And Katrina is really going through a hard time still trying to 97 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:59,360 find justice for her aunt. So again, I've gotten some recent text messages from her just how 98 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:05,760 frustrated she is dealing with the Dallas Police Department. And it's just incredible that they 99 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:11,520 still want me to be a part of their lives once the story is told. Well, I think that you have a 100 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:17,600 really big impact, I mean, with your background in law enforcement and your knowledge from that, 101 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:23,280 but you also bring in personal experiences and I mean, we're all humans. So in the whole scheme of 102 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:30,720 things, I would like to think that most of us have compassion or empathy towards these situations. 103 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:36,160 And I mean, me personally, I've never experienced anything that's that difficult that I would have 104 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:42,480 to deal with every day of my life. But I mean, you're a great sounding board and that's just 105 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,040 amazing. I love that inspiration. Well, and that's incredible to hear that you haven't 106 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:53,280 experienced that because your podcasts do come across so empathetic. And I love listening to 107 00:11:53,280 --> 00:12:00,960 yours because they really draw me in. So well done. Oh, thanks. So what I'm hearing is that 108 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:06,800 we're good storytellers. We're very good storytellers. I do feel just personally, 109 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:13,040 I need to tell stories in a way too, that it's not always just about the aftermath. I just feel 110 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:18,880 personally that victims need voices and sometimes even putting a name to the victim is really 111 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:24,880 important to me. But yeah, that's my podcast, but we're not talking about my podcast right now. 112 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:30,800 We're talking about your podcast. All right. So who is your dream guest that you would love to 113 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:37,680 have on your show? My dream guest is probably not one most people would expect, but I would like, 114 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:44,720 and I hope you're listening, the chief of police of Wichita, Kansas. Okay. Because we just hired a 115 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:54,480 new chief of police here in Wichita, Kansas. And I have been struggling so hard. We have 200 cold 116 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:02,240 cases here in Wichita, Kansas, and I have been struggling. We finally got a website, a website. 117 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:08,960 Yes. I felt so accomplished that I got a website now that the Wichita police department has 118 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:15,840 for cold cases. So everybody knows who they are. That's amazing. So that was exciting, 119 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,480 but we need more communication. We need more community involvement from our Wichita police 120 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:26,400 department. So he's my dream guest. I want the chief of police. I just want to have a sit down 121 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:32,000 with them and I just want to talk to them about community engagement. He's my dream. And hopefully 122 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,440 someday I will get him. Have you met him yet? I got to be a part of the interview process. 123 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:46,400 Okay. Look at you. You are a go getter. I got to do that. But I'm telling you, my dream is I want 124 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:52,240 a relationship with our local police. Our sheriff's department, they took us to the cold case files. 125 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:58,320 They are, the sheriff's department is amazing. They want outreach for the cold cases. They are 126 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:04,320 doing everything they can. We need to get our city department like that. So I'm hoping. Well, 127 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:10,240 I'm just saying your track record. I think you can do it. I'm working on it because they're the 128 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:16,320 ones that hold my friend's case in their hands. So I'm after them. So true. Do you want to share 129 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:22,080 the website? For the Wichita police department? Yeah. Anything goes on the dash. Yes. It's 130 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Wichita.gov. You'll go to that and then you'll see the Wichita police department and you go to that 131 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:34,160 and then it'll say investigations cold case and it'll take you right there. They do also have two 132 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:39,920 new detectives, Addie Perkins and I can't remember the other gentleman's name that are signed to the 133 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:47,440 cold cases. So that's a big thing too. We've got some big things going on. I push. I'm a very pushy 134 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:54,880 girl. Good for you. Well, don't stop now. So question, do you usually listen to your own 135 00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:03,280 podcasts? I do. I am also a very obsessive girl and I always know that there is room for improvement. 136 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:13,200 So I try not to do it immediately after. So I let some time go past and then I do. I am a big dog 137 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:21,440 Walker podcast girl. And so usually I will let a few days go past and then I listen to my podcast 138 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:28,640 and I make notes on how I can improve what I did, how I did. Honestly, if I hear an error, 139 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:35,520 I will pull the podcast down and fix it and then put it back up. Oh no. Does that do anything to 140 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:43,280 your numbers though? Yes, it does. That's, that's yeah. I've got to stop it. I have horrible OCD. 141 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:49,840 This is like, it messes everything up. It is a horrible problem. I need to let it go. I've 142 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:56,080 been trying to give therapy to myself. Marianne stop it. Just let it go. Oh Marianne stop it. 143 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:03,680 I've been improving. I've been rewarding myself with a crumble cookie every time I don't do that. 144 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:11,040 So is that a boozy crumble cookie? I've been trying to figure out how to put liquor in besides 145 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,160 just bed basic butterscotch. You know, I want to figure out how to get booze into cook. I'm working 146 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:21,280 on that. That's hilarious. How would you describe your communication style? And this could be every 147 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:26,720 day or on your podcast. How would you describe yourself? It's interesting you asked me that 148 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:33,360 question because I was interviewed by someone a while, a couple of weeks ago and they had talked 149 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,960 to me about what my style was. And I was like, I have no idea. And they were like, well, we'll tell 150 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:46,080 you, we listened to your podcast and we call your podcast style infotainment. And I was like, is that 151 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:52,000 a word? And so they said, yeah, is it a word? Is it a real word? Is it a word though? Cause I've heard 152 00:16:52,000 --> 00:17:00,000 it. I've not looked it up. Should we go look it up now? No, you keep talking. I'll go look it up. 153 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,720 Okay. Yes. You look at it because I'm like infotainment and I think we got into the 154 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:11,760 conversation because I don't believe that true crime comedy should exist. It was, we were talking 155 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:18,880 about popcorn murder mysteries and the victim incident that happened. And that turned into a 156 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:25,600 whole kerfuffle thing. There shouldn't be dark humor and true crime victims. It just shouldn't 157 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:32,880 happen. I think that's an incorrect line. It's one thing to lighten the mood a little bit, but never, 158 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,800 it shouldn't be a genre. No. So that's when I was like, well, I definitely try to stay away from 159 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,240 that. And I said, because of my law enforcement background, most of my information does come from 160 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:51,680 case files and case histories. But then I talked to family and I like to let people get to know 161 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:58,480 who the victim was, information about the victim. So it's all information and that's where infotainment 162 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:04,640 came from. And according to Wikipedia, it's the way to distinguish it from serious journalism or 163 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:11,360 hard news. I mean, that's kind of what podcasts are all about, but I think we're having somebody 164 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:17,360 deliver a package again. Hang on. Give me one second. Marianne, you don't know this, but when 165 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:22,960 people leave from where we're recording, I like to tell stories, but you're back already. Oh, 166 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,200 darn it. Oh, I wanted to, oh, I can leave again real quick and see what they're actually working 167 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:32,720 at. I thought she had her earbuds in. I don't have any stories to tell about you, Marianne, 168 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:39,600 other than you are a very interesting woman and your background is phenomenal. So listeners, 169 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,880 you need to go check her out. Okay. Sorry about that. No problem. Well, those were my questions, 170 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:51,840 but where can we find you online? Oh, we are on Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast, 171 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:58,000 just about anywhere you can hear your podcast, but also on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. 172 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:04,000 We are active basically anywhere. Great. And I've Googled you. You're pretty easy to find. 173 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:11,280 Yeah, I'm easy, you know. All right. Well, thanks so much for sharing, Marianne. If you guys have 174 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,320 not had a chance to listen to crime scenes and cupcakes, be sure to check it out wherever you 175 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,360 get your podcasts. But for now, this is kind of where we're going to change the tables here a 176 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:26,000 little bit, Marianne. So if you are ready to get started, I have a short story for you today. 177 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,120 I'm ready. I'm excited. All right. Have you ever been to a family reunion? I've never been to a 178 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:36,560 family reunion. Oh, you're missing out on so much. Oh, you've never met my family. 179 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,920 Is that one of those home for the holidays stories? Yeah. Oh, goodness. Okay. I've been to a few 180 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:49,040 family reunions. It's really cool because you get to see people that you haven't seen in a really 181 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,520 long time. And sometimes I've met people that I didn't even know were part of my family. And I 182 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:59,440 think that's a really cool aspect of it. Plus the food is really good. So you're good at organizing. 183 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:06,560 You should set up a family reunion. In the meantime, I'm actually going to tell you a little bit 184 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:12,400 about a family reunion towards the end of my story today. But I just had to ask you, because not 185 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,160 everybody does family reunions. Today, we're going to talk about a little girl named baby Holly. 186 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:25,040 We're going to go all the way back to 1981. Between January 6th and January 11th of 1981, 187 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:31,360 a young married couple by the names of Tina and Harold Close were unfortunately, Marianne, 188 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:37,120 they were found deceased off of Wallaceville Road in Harris County near Houston, Texas. 189 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:47,040 Tina was 17 and Harold was 21. Oh, wow. So young. I know, right? Although there was no clear evidence 190 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:53,280 of a motive, it did appear that Harold had been beaten to death and Tina had been strangled. 191 00:20:54,160 --> 00:21:00,960 There's a lot of mystery behind this couple. The unfortunate part, Marianne, is that authorities 192 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:07,840 could not identify the couple and believe that they were murdered between December of 1980 and 193 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:15,200 January 1981. And for all purposes of what I'm telling you today, they have been unable to 194 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:21,440 identify their bodies for the next 40 years. Oh, I find that hard to believe even if this happened 195 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:27,760 in the 80s. Yeah, that they would go, where did this happen again? In Harris County in Houston, 196 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:35,120 Texas. And it took 40 years to identify the bodies. It sure did. Isn't that something? Yeah. I can't 197 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:41,920 believe they didn't have any type of comparative DNA at all for 40 years. Yeah. Well, I will say 198 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:50,080 this, in 2021, they did identify the couple, Tina and Harold, through a DNA service called 199 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,120 Identifiers International. Have you heard of that one? Huh, I haven't heard of that one. Huh. Yeah. 200 00:21:55,120 --> 00:22:00,720 They work with law enforcement to determine unsolved cases. I find at least that's pretty 201 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,080 phenomenal that they've just been working on this for 40 years. So they didn't put it on the back 202 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,160 burner. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That they kept working it. That's pretty cool. 203 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:17,040 Mm-hmm. Well, one of the things that my family and I talk about on Dying to Be Found is that we do 204 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:23,360 a lot of discussions on DNA and how it's progressed over time. I love how things are, 205 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:30,800 you can't say slowing down in the criminal world. I just love how people are able to solve these 206 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:38,560 unsolved cases, even if it is 40 years later. I mean, that to me is just amazing. But back in 1981, 207 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:45,680 Tina and Harold had just relocated from Florida to Louisville, Texas, so Harold could pursue a job 208 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:53,840 in carpentry. Okay. No one had heard from Tina or Harold since somewhere around October of 1980. So 209 00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:00,560 that was maybe two months before their bodies were discovered. A female who identified herself as 210 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:07,920 Sister Susan contacted the Clouse's parents asking for money in return for the couple's vehicle. 211 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:16,080 What? I know. Now, Sister Susan told the Clouse family that Tina and Harold had run off with a 212 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,920 religious group and they were simply separating themselves from society. They were giving up 213 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:28,240 all of their world possessions and they wanted no further contact with the outside world. 214 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:36,000 So I'm thinking back to that era of the early, early 80s and how many groups were out there 215 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:42,480 that kind of had the same belief systems. But I mean, I guess the question here is my thought 216 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,440 when I was looking at all this research, who is Sister Susan and how did she know how to contact 217 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,080 the Clouse's family? Right. See, that's my first question. And then of course, my additional 218 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,840 question would be, what is the history of these two? I mean, is this anything that the family 219 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:05,280 ever thought is this abnormal for them? Now, I saw one article where I would say Harold was probably 220 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:12,000 along that description. According to some family members, Harold was probably a little bit spontaneous. 221 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:17,840 I could see probably picking up definitely and you've got to go where the money is. So they were 222 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:25,440 heading off to Texas, but I did not see anything in my findings regarding them ever pursuing some 223 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:31,680 kind of religious group. Okay. And that just really is like, oh my gosh, somebody just contacts you 224 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:39,120 and then they're gone for 40 years and it breaks my heart. Isn't that something? Holly's grandparents 225 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:44,800 who received the call immediately became suspicious, pretty much as I am right now, because I don't know 226 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:51,920 who the Sister Susan is. Yeah. Well, when Sister Susan and a couple of her acquaintances delivered 227 00:24:51,920 --> 00:25:00,080 the car, police were waiting for them. Oh, nice. Good job. Yep. Everyone was arrested, but 228 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:06,400 unfortunately, none of them could be linked with the Klaus family's disappearance. Ah, darn it. 229 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:13,040 And that includes Harold, Tina, and baby Holly at the time, because they had a one-year-old child 230 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:18,160 and all three of them disappeared and there was no trace of them. Yeah. Soon after the car was 231 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:24,800 dropped off, the couple was located in a wooded area of Texas, which I had mentioned earlier, 232 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:33,360 but they had not been identified. And a one-year-old child who we know as Holly was also dropped off at 233 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:39,680 a church in Arizona and eventually raised by a couple not associated with her parents' murder. 234 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:46,960 She was dropped off at a church. Huh. Two women who had baby Holly stated that they belonged to 235 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:53,920 a nomadic religious group and that their belief system was to separate males from females, 236 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:59,920 which I thought was interesting. Huh. They never gave any reason why they were dropping baby Holly 237 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:07,120 off, but they said that they had also dropped another baby off at a laundromat at a different 238 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:13,200 time. I guess my question here is number one, why were the police not called? Or two, why didn't 239 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,680 somebody follow up on them? Especially if they said, Hey, we've dropped off another baby. That 240 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,200 makes no sense to me. Exactly. No. I mean, I would be very concerned if there was a baby at a 241 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:30,560 laundromat somewhere. That's terrifying. Who are you handing him or her over to? That's crazy. 242 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:38,960 Exactly. Well, I'm going to fast forward to today and the couple was exhumed in 2011 to have DNA 243 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:46,240 testing done. However, it did take until June of 2022 for the DNA company to work with law 244 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:52,320 enforcement agencies to identify Tina and Harold Close. Does it really take that long? 245 00:26:52,320 --> 00:27:00,960 It can, especially if they're using familial DNA. If they're having to go and see who's, 246 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,640 I am not familiar with ID identifier. If it's something along the lines of like jet match, 247 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:13,600 because only certain companies will work with law enforcement. So like 23 and me and those types of 248 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:20,080 things, if they upload it, cause like with jet match, if anybody clicks on that little thing that 249 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:26,240 says, okay, yeah, you can upload into the system and also have it available for law enforcement. 250 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:33,440 So it does take a long time for these companies to be able to go and search that plethora of data 251 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,320 out there and be able to match it through. Cause they're essentially going through all of those 252 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:45,040 tests that are coming through and matching them through. Oh, I'm familiar with like parabon or 253 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,880 jet match. So those are the ones that I'm mainly familiar with, but it's, it's crazy. 254 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:57,920 Well, once the couple was identified, they quickly linked Tina and Harold to baby Holly, 255 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:06,560 who is 42 years old and a mother of five living in Oklahoma. Oh, wow. Isn't that great? 256 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:13,760 That is incredible. Oh my gosh. If you were to look at her picture, I'll probably be posting this on 257 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:20,720 our Instagram, but if you were to see Holly, you can see she's got the same smile as her mother. 258 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,600 And oh my gosh, I'm starting to get goosebumps here. Oh, she just looks so much like her mother. 259 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,400 And the entire family is perfect. Okay. So here's my happy ending that I always, 260 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,720 I feel like I have to do on the dash. Yes. Give a little bit of a happy ending. 261 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:43,280 Investigators made their first contact with Holly at her place of work. Could you imagine just going 262 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,720 in, doing your daily work and then investigators walking in and interrupting you. Isn't that 263 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,120 something? Oh, wow. And I mean, your first thought would be something bad has happened, 264 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:59,200 but this is actually a positive thing of, cause she's probably wondered if she was just adopted 265 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:05,920 and not knowing who her family is. Yes. Well, you know what's even better? The investigators 266 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:12,240 showed up to her work on what would have been Harold's, her father's 63rd birthday. 267 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:22,320 Oh, wow. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. I'm a bearer of good news today. Oh, I got goosebumps. 268 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:29,200 Well, good. Then I'm doing my job as a storyteller, aren't I? Yes, you are. Holly 269 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,200 zoomed with her aunt just this past June. So there was a little bit of that family reunion 270 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,200 that I had asked you about. Holly's grandmother is quoted as saying, I prayed for more than 40 271 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:49,200 years for answers and the Lord revealed some of it. She also got a chance to meet Holly and said 272 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:55,920 that she was a birthday present from heaven. Oh, because I'm referencing Harold's birthday right 273 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:03,520 now. That's incredible. Well, it doesn't stop there because there's still a piece that's missing 274 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:10,640 Marianne and police still need our help solving this case because even though Holly has been found, 275 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:17,040 her parents killer has not. And authorities believe that members from that nomadic religious 276 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,960 group may know something more about Tina's and Harold's death. And they're asking the public to 277 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:30,640 contact them if you have any information from this case from 1981. If you have more information on the 278 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:38,800 deaths of Tina or Harold close that's C L O U S E by the way, I know I sound weird when I say my 279 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:45,760 OU words, but if you have any information on Tina or Harold's case or the abduction of Holly, 280 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,680 please email the Texas attorney general's office in the cold case and missing persons unit at 281 00:30:51,680 --> 00:31:00,560 coldcaseunit at O A G dot Texas.gov. So Marianne, that's my quick story. That is an amazing story. 282 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:11,280 It has such an awesome moment and we still have an answered things out there, but you have such a 283 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:19,760 positive reunion and it's so awesome for Holly to be able to have. She knows, you know, some answers 284 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:26,480 at least of where she comes from. Yeah. And, you know, it's, I mean, I'm sure it's really hard for 285 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,600 her to know what's happened to her family. And hopefully with this getting out there and everything, 286 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:38,480 we can get her some answers on who did this to her parents and we can hopefully help provide her some 287 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:46,240 closure there. Yes, absolutely. Incredible. Absolutely. Well, that's my dash. How'd we do? 288 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:54,400 We dashed through the snow and we made it awesome. I love it. Yeah, we did. Okay, Marianne, thanks for 289 00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:02,560 helping me with the dash and it's so nice to meet you as a person, a fellow podcaster. I appreciate 290 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,840 you helping me out with this episode. If there's anything I can do for you, please let me know. 291 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,920 Well, it was great to connect with you and I look forward to the changes that are going to be coming. 292 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:20,320 All right. Be sure to check out Marianne and crime scenes and cupcakes on her social medias, 293 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:26,720 plus wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to check me out on dying to be found and the dash 294 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:32,400 every Wednesday and Thursday. Talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to dying to be found true 295 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:39,360 crime podcast in our dash mini series. Every week we'll bring you a variety of true crime episodes, 296 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:45,200 a little dash of hope, plus special bonus episodes with some really cool guests. Before we go, 297 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,800 we'd love for you to share this podcast with your friends and give us a five star review. Follow us 298 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:57,520 on tik tok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at dying to be found or visit our 299 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:03,920 website at dying to be found.com spelled just like you see in our logo. Better yet, click on our 300 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,440 link tree account found in the show notes where you'll find all the information in one place. 301 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:15,600 Be sure to dash in every Wednesday for our mini episodes plus every Thursday when I get together 302 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:43,600 with some of my family members. Thanks again everyone and we'll talk to you soon.