Hey guys, it's Marianne, dog mom, baker, true crime podcast maker. What would you do if someone
killed your best friend and it's been 33 years and it seems like nobody is doing Jack? You would
start a podcast and go find the answers yourself and that's exactly what we're doing here at Crime
Steaming Cupcakes. So join us as we look for the answers and also find the answers and some other
unsolved cases as well here in Kansas. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, as well as
many other platforms. You can also find us on all the social media apps such as Instagram, TikTok,
YouTube, you name it, we're there. So come find us. Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to Be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful
acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive
audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, this is Deb, your host from the true crime podcast Dying to Be Found. I want to welcome
you back to The Dash, which is a collection of short true crime stories. I've added this series
as a way to get you through a short commute, small household chores, or even just a way to take a
break from your regular routine. Plus, I've lined up a great group of fellow podcasters and today I
have Mary Ann from the true crime podcast Crime Scenes and Cupcakes. She's agreed to join me on
The Dash. So here we go. Hi Mary Ann. Hi Deb, so excited to be here. I am so glad. Thanks so much
for agreeing to come on today. I'm still doing a little learning curve with The Dash, but it's
really cool that I have been talking to fellow podcasters in our true crime community. It's
just a way to offer a variation of insights on different cases. So today I feel like I have a
real expert in the room, which before we started recording, I really found out how much of an expert
you really are. And that is just amazing. So I can't wait to see how this goes today. Well,
I appreciate that. I don't know how much of an expert I am, but I've definitely put in the years.
Well, that is great. And I do appreciate your work. So what I'm going to do though, is I'm going to
actually give you a couple of minutes to talk about your own podcast. And so I thought I'd ask
you a couple of questions before we get started and dash into our storyline with Dying to be Found.
So I just wanted to see if you could answer how you decided to start your own podcast.
That's a great question. I do not have the voice for podcasting at all. Actually, I don't know if
people notice, I actually have a lisp as well. Not a great voice for it at all. But I have a friend
who was murdered on October 1st of 1989. And I can never find any information about her case.
Every time I would want to see if there was an update, every time I would want to see if there
was any information on it, there was buckets. Every time I would want to talk to the police,
there was never any information. And not being a family member, I could never get anything.
And so one of the things is that I saw though, I saw this great trend how podcasts were actually
getting victims names out there. And podcasts were actually helping getting cold cases solved.
And so I appealed to a few podcasters to see if they would take this case on. And when I couldn't
get that done, I thought, all right, damn it, I'm gonna do it myself. So I picked up the basic
things you need for a podcast, started researching what do you do? And thus Crime Scenes and Cupcakes
was born. Well, I'm glad that you said that title of your podcast, because I wanted to know where
that name came from. Crime Scenes and Cupcakes. It's actually kind of funny because I had to talk
to a detective the other day and I was like, okay, don't judge me on the title of my podcast. We are
an investigative podcast. But I just waffled on whether or not to change the name, but it's me.
I've worked federal law enforcement for 20 years. And so Crime Scenes has been a huge part of my
past. Sure. Then I found out I had a heart condition and I was required to retire from
my wonderful career that I loved. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to retire and just chill out.
I started baking cupcakes for friends, these boozy cupcakes, and people started loving them
and started buying them from me. And the next thing I know, I own a damn bakery. So a real walk-in
bakery. It's not, it's a traveling bakery, actually. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, we have a mobile boozy
bakery that does like these huge events. One of our biggest events is a film festival we do here
in Wichita. And it's a week long event and we are known for these huge displays we do for these
events and everything. And so yeah, we'll plug this one too. Is it called the boozy bakery?
It's called Cocktail Cupcakes. So yes, we are Cocktail Cupcakes. And actually we are going to
be doing a line of podcast cupcakes. And so we just posted it on our Cocktail Cupcakes Instagram.
Dying to be Found is actually going to be featured with their own cupcake as well.
Oh my gosh. We are doing an inspired cupcake for each of our favorite podcasts in our lineup.
And so yes, our little surprise. Thank you so much. That's awesome. I gotta check that out.
Yes. So it's going to be a featured podcast menu. And so yes, you will be able to order the Dying
to be Found cupcake and it will be inspired and have its own look and everything inspired by the
Dying to be Found, the Dash cupcake. That is incredible. You are so creative. Look at you.
You're coming out of your retirement well. So I found a way to put my two loves together.
So it's kind of fun. Side note to our listeners, we belong to a chat group in Instagram.
And I feel like there was just a couple of days ago where you were talking about shipping cupcakes,
but you couldn't do it over state lines. Was that you? Yes. But no, I can do it now. I have
researched it. I have worked on it. I am getting them done together. And actually the neighbor kids
have started helping me. And so we have started working on getting these cupcakes put together.
And so we're doing some podcasters wanted candy and some wanted cupcakes because I started making
a candy line now, a boozy candy line. Oh my gosh. And so yes, so I am just... I'm going to check out
your website. And so yeah, so it's going to have this. So yes, you guys, we're going to be packaging
these up and we're going to be able to ship them out to you. I'm not quite sure if I'm going to be
able to ship them out to other countries yet, but I am going to be able to ship them out over state
lines. I did get that worked out. So what's your website? It is called Cocktail Cupcakes, but it's
with a K. Cocktail and cupcakes are spelled with Ks. Gotcha. And we have it on Instagram, Facebook,
and TikTok. So you can find us there. So... Excellent. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. That is how
you can find us. So we are going to have our favorite podcasters and they are going to have
their own line of goodies. So we're very excited. I cannot wait. That's exciting. And thank you so
much for thinking of us at Dying to be Found. You're amazing. And it's going to be Dying to be
eaten. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Do you give away your recipes? No. Okay. I've had several people
try to get the recipes and it's like, I have that science nerd at heart. So, because most people are
like, well, the booze can get baked out of the cupcake. And I'm like, oh, not mine. I actually
have to have a liquor license for mine because my cupcakes, depending on what I make, I have some
cupcakes that are like 94 proof. Wow. That's after baking? Yeah. After baking. Holy cow. You are
scientific. So that's why I was like, I don't know if I can ship them over state lines. I have to be
really careful. But no, mine are scientifically created. So the booze is not. And they come with
a little shot in the top as well. I've created a shot that goes into the cupcake that you pull
out and you can do the shot and like a little, it's not a syringe, it's like a little squirter
thing. What? Like a dropper? Yeah. It's like a little. Oh my gosh, Mary Ann, you're talented.
It's really fun. It's, it's. It sounds like fun. It's my second passion. So that's how we ended up
with crime scenes and cupcakes. So. Oh, that is amazing. What a great story. Hey, what gives you
inspiration behind the stories that you do tell? It is the ones left behind, the families, the friends.
Whenever I am looking at a case and what has really started happening is when it started with
Katrina Marshall, she was a niece of a woman who was murdered and she reached out to me to tell her
aunt's story. And once that started, I had more family members and friends reaching out to me to
tell their loved ones unsolved cases. Wow. It's been incredible. That's where a lot of my kids
and that's where a lot of my cases come from is family and friends reaching out and asking me to
tell their stories. And I get to know these victims so closely and it's so heart wrenching
that motivates me every day. And I still talk to them. It's amazing. I get, you know, I'm still
chatting with them. I love that. And Katrina is really going through a hard time still trying to
find justice for her aunt. So again, I've gotten some recent text messages from her just how
frustrated she is dealing with the Dallas Police Department. And it's just incredible that they
still want me to be a part of their lives once the story is told. Well, I think that you have a
really big impact, I mean, with your background in law enforcement and your knowledge from that,
but you also bring in personal experiences and I mean, we're all humans. So in the whole scheme of
things, I would like to think that most of us have compassion or empathy towards these situations.
And I mean, me personally, I've never experienced anything that's that difficult that I would have
to deal with every day of my life. But I mean, you're a great sounding board and that's just
amazing. I love that inspiration. Well, and that's incredible to hear that you haven't
experienced that because your podcasts do come across so empathetic. And I love listening to
yours because they really draw me in. So well done. Oh, thanks. So what I'm hearing is that
we're good storytellers. We're very good storytellers. I do feel just personally,
I need to tell stories in a way too, that it's not always just about the aftermath. I just feel
personally that victims need voices and sometimes even putting a name to the victim is really
important to me. But yeah, that's my podcast, but we're not talking about my podcast right now.
We're talking about your podcast. All right. So who is your dream guest that you would love to
have on your show? My dream guest is probably not one most people would expect, but I would like,
and I hope you're listening, the chief of police of Wichita, Kansas. Okay. Because we just hired a
new chief of police here in Wichita, Kansas. And I have been struggling so hard. We have 200 cold
cases here in Wichita, Kansas, and I have been struggling. We finally got a website, a website.
Yes. I felt so accomplished that I got a website now that the Wichita police department has
for cold cases. So everybody knows who they are. That's amazing. So that was exciting,
but we need more communication. We need more community involvement from our Wichita police
department. So he's my dream guest. I want the chief of police. I just want to have a sit down
with them and I just want to talk to them about community engagement. He's my dream. And hopefully
someday I will get him. Have you met him yet? I got to be a part of the interview process.
Okay. Look at you. You are a go getter. I got to do that. But I'm telling you, my dream is I want
a relationship with our local police. Our sheriff's department, they took us to the cold case files.
They are, the sheriff's department is amazing. They want outreach for the cold cases. They are
doing everything they can. We need to get our city department like that. So I'm hoping. Well,
I'm just saying your track record. I think you can do it. I'm working on it because they're the
ones that hold my friend's case in their hands. So I'm after them. So true. Do you want to share
the website? For the Wichita police department? Yeah. Anything goes on the dash. Yes. It's
Wichita.gov. You'll go to that and then you'll see the Wichita police department and you go to that
and then it'll say investigations cold case and it'll take you right there. They do also have two
new detectives, Addie Perkins and I can't remember the other gentleman's name that are signed to the
cold cases. So that's a big thing too. We've got some big things going on. I push. I'm a very pushy
girl. Good for you. Well, don't stop now. So question, do you usually listen to your own
podcasts? I do. I am also a very obsessive girl and I always know that there is room for improvement.
So I try not to do it immediately after. So I let some time go past and then I do. I am a big dog
Walker podcast girl. And so usually I will let a few days go past and then I listen to my podcast
and I make notes on how I can improve what I did, how I did. Honestly, if I hear an error,
I will pull the podcast down and fix it and then put it back up. Oh no. Does that do anything to
your numbers though? Yes, it does. That's, that's yeah. I've got to stop it. I have horrible OCD.
This is like, it messes everything up. It is a horrible problem. I need to let it go. I've
been trying to give therapy to myself. Marianne stop it. Just let it go. Oh Marianne stop it.
I've been improving. I've been rewarding myself with a crumble cookie every time I don't do that.
So is that a boozy crumble cookie? I've been trying to figure out how to put liquor in besides
just bed basic butterscotch. You know, I want to figure out how to get booze into cook. I'm working
on that. That's hilarious. How would you describe your communication style? And this could be every
day or on your podcast. How would you describe yourself? It's interesting you asked me that
question because I was interviewed by someone a while, a couple of weeks ago and they had talked
to me about what my style was. And I was like, I have no idea. And they were like, well, we'll tell
you, we listened to your podcast and we call your podcast style infotainment. And I was like, is that
a word? And so they said, yeah, is it a word? Is it a real word? Is it a word though? Cause I've heard
it. I've not looked it up. Should we go look it up now? No, you keep talking. I'll go look it up.
Okay. Yes. You look at it because I'm like infotainment and I think we got into the
conversation because I don't believe that true crime comedy should exist. It was, we were talking
about popcorn murder mysteries and the victim incident that happened. And that turned into a
whole kerfuffle thing. There shouldn't be dark humor and true crime victims. It just shouldn't
happen. I think that's an incorrect line. It's one thing to lighten the mood a little bit, but never,
it shouldn't be a genre. No. So that's when I was like, well, I definitely try to stay away from
that. And I said, because of my law enforcement background, most of my information does come from
case files and case histories. But then I talked to family and I like to let people get to know
who the victim was, information about the victim. So it's all information and that's where infotainment
came from. And according to Wikipedia, it's the way to distinguish it from serious journalism or
hard news. I mean, that's kind of what podcasts are all about, but I think we're having somebody
deliver a package again. Hang on. Give me one second. Marianne, you don't know this, but when
people leave from where we're recording, I like to tell stories, but you're back already. Oh,
darn it. Oh, I wanted to, oh, I can leave again real quick and see what they're actually working
at. I thought she had her earbuds in. I don't have any stories to tell about you, Marianne,
other than you are a very interesting woman and your background is phenomenal. So listeners,
you need to go check her out. Okay. Sorry about that. No problem. Well, those were my questions,
but where can we find you online? Oh, we are on Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast,
just about anywhere you can hear your podcast, but also on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok.
We are active basically anywhere. Great. And I've Googled you. You're pretty easy to find.
Yeah, I'm easy, you know. All right. Well, thanks so much for sharing, Marianne. If you guys have
not had a chance to listen to crime scenes and cupcakes, be sure to check it out wherever you
get your podcasts. But for now, this is kind of where we're going to change the tables here a
little bit, Marianne. So if you are ready to get started, I have a short story for you today.
I'm ready. I'm excited. All right. Have you ever been to a family reunion? I've never been to a
family reunion. Oh, you're missing out on so much. Oh, you've never met my family.
Is that one of those home for the holidays stories? Yeah. Oh, goodness. Okay. I've been to a few
family reunions. It's really cool because you get to see people that you haven't seen in a really
long time. And sometimes I've met people that I didn't even know were part of my family. And I
think that's a really cool aspect of it. Plus the food is really good. So you're good at organizing.
You should set up a family reunion. In the meantime, I'm actually going to tell you a little bit
about a family reunion towards the end of my story today. But I just had to ask you, because not
everybody does family reunions. Today, we're going to talk about a little girl named baby Holly.
We're going to go all the way back to 1981. Between January 6th and January 11th of 1981,
a young married couple by the names of Tina and Harold Close were unfortunately, Marianne,
they were found deceased off of Wallaceville Road in Harris County near Houston, Texas.
Tina was 17 and Harold was 21. Oh, wow. So young. I know, right? Although there was no clear evidence
of a motive, it did appear that Harold had been beaten to death and Tina had been strangled.
There's a lot of mystery behind this couple. The unfortunate part, Marianne, is that authorities
could not identify the couple and believe that they were murdered between December of 1980 and
January 1981. And for all purposes of what I'm telling you today, they have been unable to
identify their bodies for the next 40 years. Oh, I find that hard to believe even if this happened
in the 80s. Yeah, that they would go, where did this happen again? In Harris County in Houston,
Texas. And it took 40 years to identify the bodies. It sure did. Isn't that something? Yeah. I can't
believe they didn't have any type of comparative DNA at all for 40 years. Yeah. Well, I will say
this, in 2021, they did identify the couple, Tina and Harold, through a DNA service called
Identifiers International. Have you heard of that one? Huh, I haven't heard of that one. Huh. Yeah.
They work with law enforcement to determine unsolved cases. I find at least that's pretty
phenomenal that they've just been working on this for 40 years. So they didn't put it on the back
burner. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That they kept working it. That's pretty cool.
Mm-hmm. Well, one of the things that my family and I talk about on Dying to Be Found is that we do
a lot of discussions on DNA and how it's progressed over time. I love how things are,
you can't say slowing down in the criminal world. I just love how people are able to solve these
unsolved cases, even if it is 40 years later. I mean, that to me is just amazing. But back in 1981,
Tina and Harold had just relocated from Florida to Louisville, Texas, so Harold could pursue a job
in carpentry. Okay. No one had heard from Tina or Harold since somewhere around October of 1980. So
that was maybe two months before their bodies were discovered. A female who identified herself as
Sister Susan contacted the Clouse's parents asking for money in return for the couple's vehicle.
What? I know. Now, Sister Susan told the Clouse family that Tina and Harold had run off with a
religious group and they were simply separating themselves from society. They were giving up
all of their world possessions and they wanted no further contact with the outside world.
So I'm thinking back to that era of the early, early 80s and how many groups were out there
that kind of had the same belief systems. But I mean, I guess the question here is my thought
when I was looking at all this research, who is Sister Susan and how did she know how to contact
the Clouse's family? Right. See, that's my first question. And then of course, my additional
question would be, what is the history of these two? I mean, is this anything that the family
ever thought is this abnormal for them? Now, I saw one article where I would say Harold was probably
along that description. According to some family members, Harold was probably a little bit spontaneous.
I could see probably picking up definitely and you've got to go where the money is. So they were
heading off to Texas, but I did not see anything in my findings regarding them ever pursuing some
kind of religious group. Okay. And that just really is like, oh my gosh, somebody just contacts you
and then they're gone for 40 years and it breaks my heart. Isn't that something? Holly's grandparents
who received the call immediately became suspicious, pretty much as I am right now, because I don't know
who the Sister Susan is. Yeah. Well, when Sister Susan and a couple of her acquaintances delivered
the car, police were waiting for them. Oh, nice. Good job. Yep. Everyone was arrested, but
unfortunately, none of them could be linked with the Klaus family's disappearance. Ah, darn it.
And that includes Harold, Tina, and baby Holly at the time, because they had a one-year-old child
and all three of them disappeared and there was no trace of them. Yeah. Soon after the car was
dropped off, the couple was located in a wooded area of Texas, which I had mentioned earlier,
but they had not been identified. And a one-year-old child who we know as Holly was also dropped off at
a church in Arizona and eventually raised by a couple not associated with her parents' murder.
She was dropped off at a church. Huh. Two women who had baby Holly stated that they belonged to
a nomadic religious group and that their belief system was to separate males from females,
which I thought was interesting. Huh. They never gave any reason why they were dropping baby Holly
off, but they said that they had also dropped another baby off at a laundromat at a different
time. I guess my question here is number one, why were the police not called? Or two, why didn't
somebody follow up on them? Especially if they said, Hey, we've dropped off another baby. That
makes no sense to me. Exactly. No. I mean, I would be very concerned if there was a baby at a
laundromat somewhere. That's terrifying. Who are you handing him or her over to? That's crazy.
Exactly. Well, I'm going to fast forward to today and the couple was exhumed in 2011 to have DNA
testing done. However, it did take until June of 2022 for the DNA company to work with law
enforcement agencies to identify Tina and Harold Close. Does it really take that long?
It can, especially if they're using familial DNA. If they're having to go and see who's,
I am not familiar with ID identifier. If it's something along the lines of like jet match,
because only certain companies will work with law enforcement. So like 23 and me and those types of
things, if they upload it, cause like with jet match, if anybody clicks on that little thing that
says, okay, yeah, you can upload into the system and also have it available for law enforcement.
So it does take a long time for these companies to be able to go and search that plethora of data
out there and be able to match it through. Cause they're essentially going through all of those
tests that are coming through and matching them through. Oh, I'm familiar with like parabon or
jet match. So those are the ones that I'm mainly familiar with, but it's, it's crazy.
Well, once the couple was identified, they quickly linked Tina and Harold to baby Holly,
who is 42 years old and a mother of five living in Oklahoma. Oh, wow. Isn't that great?
That is incredible. Oh my gosh. If you were to look at her picture, I'll probably be posting this on
our Instagram, but if you were to see Holly, you can see she's got the same smile as her mother.
And oh my gosh, I'm starting to get goosebumps here. Oh, she just looks so much like her mother.
And the entire family is perfect. Okay. So here's my happy ending that I always,
I feel like I have to do on the dash. Yes. Give a little bit of a happy ending.
Investigators made their first contact with Holly at her place of work. Could you imagine just going
in, doing your daily work and then investigators walking in and interrupting you. Isn't that
something? Oh, wow. And I mean, your first thought would be something bad has happened,
but this is actually a positive thing of, cause she's probably wondered if she was just adopted
and not knowing who her family is. Yes. Well, you know what's even better? The investigators
showed up to her work on what would have been Harold's, her father's 63rd birthday.
Oh, wow. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. I'm a bearer of good news today. Oh, I got goosebumps.
Well, good. Then I'm doing my job as a storyteller, aren't I? Yes, you are. Holly
zoomed with her aunt just this past June. So there was a little bit of that family reunion
that I had asked you about. Holly's grandmother is quoted as saying, I prayed for more than 40
years for answers and the Lord revealed some of it. She also got a chance to meet Holly and said
that she was a birthday present from heaven. Oh, because I'm referencing Harold's birthday right
now. That's incredible. Well, it doesn't stop there because there's still a piece that's missing
Marianne and police still need our help solving this case because even though Holly has been found,
her parents killer has not. And authorities believe that members from that nomadic religious
group may know something more about Tina's and Harold's death. And they're asking the public to
contact them if you have any information from this case from 1981. If you have more information on the
deaths of Tina or Harold close that's C L O U S E by the way, I know I sound weird when I say my
OU words, but if you have any information on Tina or Harold's case or the abduction of Holly,
please email the Texas attorney general's office in the cold case and missing persons unit at
coldcaseunit at O A G dot Texas.gov. So Marianne, that's my quick story. That is an amazing story.
It has such an awesome moment and we still have an answered things out there, but you have such a
positive reunion and it's so awesome for Holly to be able to have. She knows, you know, some answers
at least of where she comes from. Yeah. And, you know, it's, I mean, I'm sure it's really hard for
her to know what's happened to her family. And hopefully with this getting out there and everything,
we can get her some answers on who did this to her parents and we can hopefully help provide her some
closure there. Yes, absolutely. Incredible. Absolutely. Well, that's my dash. How'd we do?
We dashed through the snow and we made it awesome. I love it. Yeah, we did. Okay, Marianne, thanks for
helping me with the dash and it's so nice to meet you as a person, a fellow podcaster. I appreciate
you helping me out with this episode. If there's anything I can do for you, please let me know.
Well, it was great to connect with you and I look forward to the changes that are going to be coming.
All right. Be sure to check out Marianne and crime scenes and cupcakes on her social medias,
plus wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to check me out on dying to be found and the dash
every Wednesday and Thursday. Talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to dying to be found true
crime podcast in our dash mini series. Every week we'll bring you a variety of true crime episodes,
a little dash of hope, plus special bonus episodes with some really cool guests. Before we go,
we'd love for you to share this podcast with your friends and give us a five star review. Follow us
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link tree account found in the show notes where you'll find all the information in one place.
Be sure to dash in every Wednesday for our mini episodes plus every Thursday when I get together
with some of my family members. Thanks again everyone and we'll talk to you soon.