Hey friends, I'm Katie and I'm Emily and we're the hosts of Malice and Mocktails, a true
crime podcast.
We are just two sisters covering cases of both vintage and contemporary true crime.
And because true crime can be a bit of a bummer, at the end of every episode, we share with
you some of our favorite mocktail recipes.
Join us every week wherever you get your podcasts.
And until next time, make good choices.
Bye.
Hi everyone.
This is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions
on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this
podcast.
or pull in some of my fellow podcasters from our true crime community.
I started the dash to give you a quick update on cold cases, but I'm not going to lie.
I have met so many really cool podcasters this year and I wanted to give them an opportunity
to showcase their own podcasts.
I've been listening to today's guests for a while now and I love how they bring these
stories I've never heard before.
Katie and Emily from Malice and Mocktails are here to join me on the dash today.
They are two sisters doing the same thing that Beth and I do, which is to spend quality
time together and share something we love, which is true crime.
Welcome Katie and Emily.
Hey, thank you.
We're so excited to be here.
I am so glad you're here today.
I've been listening to you guys and I love how willing some of my unsuspecting victims
guests are here to be here on the dash with me today.
Thanks so much for being here.
I'm excited.
I can't wait.
Us too.
Yes.
We're very excited.
Let's get into it.
I really love this true crime community and just behind the scenes, we were talking before
we started recording.
We have this little chat group on Instagram and there's constant chatter amongst all of
us where we are doing an amazing job in my opinion, you guys on networking and supporting
each other.
So when I developed the dash, naturally I thought of you guys because you're one of
the nicest people I've talked to and I really wanted to reach out to you guys.
So once again, thanks for being here.
I wanted to give you guys an opportunity to tell our listeners a little bit about your
own podcast and anything else that you want to share before I get into my own little story.
So I have a couple of icebreaker questions for you.
How about that?
That sounds great.
Well, I know that you guys are sisters and I started a podcast of my own with my own
sister, but I wondered what made you guys decide to get into podcasting together?
So I initially started the podcast in July of last year on my own and I did a couple
of solo episodes and randomly just, I personally think Emily's hilarious.
I think so too.
Every time we watch a movie, like we have to tell her to shut up because she will be
that person.
I'll go in there, what are they doing?
Oh my goodness.
I almost put a meme out on my Instagram today along those same lines.
I don't really watch a ton of true crime shows.
I really don't.
I read so much.
I really don't spend a lot of time watching movies, but I totally get it.
I totally get what you're saying.
Yeah.
I think she had actually first invited me to come on her podcast after we were with
our stepdad together and we were watching some show and I kept asking my stepdad questions.
Why are they doing that?
Why is this happening?
What is happening?
And he's like, just watch.
And Katie was over in the corner giggling.
Yeah.
Because she's not super into true crime either and I just thought that me telling her these
just horrific stories, she'd have the best reaction.
Then it would be very genuine.
I think she first came on the podcast in episode three when I told her about the servant girl
murders out of Austin in the 18, I think 1880s or 1890s.
And she's been on ever since.
Yeah.
So what is the concept behind Mocktails?
So I stopped drinking alcohol about a year ago just for health reasons.
It wasn't serving me, et cetera.
And during that time, I leaned heavily on Mocktails in that journey and I'd play around
with making different recipes and playing with other recipes I found.
And so I thought, how am I in making a podcast, I wanted to find like a niche or some other
way to separate myself from others just to make it compelling.
And I thought I could maybe share some Mocktail recipes or something like that.
I thought it really wouldn't go anywhere, but I've had even fellow podcasters like,
hey, I don't drink either.
These are great to have.
Sound delicious.
Thank you.
A lot of fruit.
From what I heard, there's a lot of fruit.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I'm trying to stay away from the more like sugary syrups other than the shrubs that
I've been making lately.
So yeah, so that's where that kind of concept came from.
And I've just, I kind of ran with it and we've been having a lot of fun with it.
Good.
And you had mentioned that we all find our niche, which I think is pretty progressive
as far as my own podcast.
But how did you guys come up with the older era storylines?
Because I love those.
Yeah, we do too.
So I studied history in school and I'm a historic preservation professional in my day job.
So I deal more with the built environment, but something about the older cases has always
intrigued me.
And I think, I don't know, I think it has to do, and this is maybe going to sound bad,
but not a lot has changed in the last, you know, even thousands of years.
Like we've unfortunately, as humans just find really horrible ways to treat each other.
And even in looking at old news, from even a hundred years ago, the stories, the articles,
the advertisements, just nothing, like it's all almost very similar.
And I think just the fact that this has been going on for a long time is intriguing.
And also look at how they solve cases back then, even like Peter Curtin, for example.
Whenever they couldn't do anything with fingerprinting or DNA testing, it's just like, how did you
even solve this crime?
How did you find the killer?
How?
What's on your mind is so amazing that we can even do something like that, especially
with the most minute little clues that we come across on crime scenes, a little piece
of hair.
I just finished an episode where they were able to find the killer based on cat hair
that was left at the crime scene.
Isn't that amazing?
Holy cow.
Oh my gosh.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Hey, side note too, Katie, by the way, I was stalking you guys a little bit this morning
because I was trying to look for all your social medias and I came across you on LinkedIn.
I sent you a LinkedIn request this morning.
I will take a look.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I thought that was interesting.
I was looking at your background.
That was neat when you were saying that you do historical preservations.
And she was being modest.
She actually has a master's degree in art history from Sotheby's in New York City.
Wow.
That is so cool.
I like to brag on her.
As well you should.
She's being modest.
That was going to be another life.
I wanted to do music and work and it fell into preservation.
I've always loved older buildings and it worked itself out.
Good.
Well, you guys found your niche from the get-go, I think, with the older eras.
Do you feel you've gotten traction on your storylines or is it still developing?
Yeah.
I think we both try to pick cases.
I tend to try to look for, in addition to those that are older, usually, I think, what
did I say?
50 or 75?
Like 50 minimum?
I think 50.
I think 50 years.
I've got it written down somewhere.
Yeah.
But also looking for kind of those lesser known cases.
I think the one that comes to mind was the one that we did about the disappearance of,
was it Hishiro?
Yeah.
It was a Japanese businessman.
Yes.
Yeah, the one that went overboard.
Yes.
Or we think that's what happened.
But yeah, I randomly came across that looking in old newspapers for something else and I'm
like, what in the world?
And so then I fell down that rabbit hole.
It's all about rabbit holes.
It's so easy to do.
Yeah.
One rabbit hole will lead to another rabbit hole.
That's how I even found Peter Curtin in the first place because I found the vampire first
and then as I was trying to find pictures of that guy, I found pictures of this other
monster which led to a whole other deep dive.
So it's all about following the rabbit holes.
Yes, absolutely.
And I know I have to kind of just like put all that aside.
There's so many times that I just want to drop what I'm already researching to start
in on that one that I just discovered.
But yeah, I can't do that.
Otherwise, I'd never get anything done.
Yes.
Every time I find something that I want to do a rabbit hole on, I write it down.
So I've got like a sticky note of all these random rabbit holes and then I start researching
them and I'm like, oh yeah, that's right.
So what do you guys find most challenging about true-crimining?
Oh gosh.
I find for me, it's when there's not a solid conclusion to the crime.
That for me is the toughest because I want to know why.
Why did this happen?
What happened to the victim?
What happened to the person committing the crime?
Like I want everything to be wrapped up and tidy with a bow and when it's not, it drives
me a little bum.
Same thing with my sister Beth.
She always likes that closure.
I guess you can call it closure.
But yeah, with me, I'm streamlining towards trying to find stories that there are at least
some answers because I know where you're going with that and it's to me, it's also difficult.
I like to give my victims names and voices and things like that.
But yeah, to get answers.
I found a lot too on some older cases where even DNA that wasn't around 20 years ago has
helped solve the case, which is what we're actually going to go into in just a little
bit.
But yeah.
I would like to have dinner with anybody, whether they are alive or not.
Who would that be?
Oh man.
I'm going to try and make Emily cry.
Oh geez.
I know where you're going.
Yeah.
Probably our mom.
Well, I know where you're coming from because I feel the same way.
I would love to have dinner with my dad.
He died back in 2006, so it's been a while.
Sometimes you just think with me being here in the United States and him being up in Canada,
I may not have appreciated everything that he communicated with me at the time.
So to sit with him today and to let him know who I am today would just be phenomenal.
So yeah, I get that.
Yeah, I would.
Well, where can we find you online?
Yeah.
So we are all over the socials, mostly on Instagram and Facebook.
You can find us at Malice and Mocktails and we're on Twitter.
I'm not honestly, probably not as active on Twitter, but it's Malice and Mocks.
And you can email us at maliceandmocktails at gmail.com.
Great.
Well, thank you so much.
Be sure to check Malice and Mocktails out with Katie and Emily on all their social medias
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Katie and M, are you ready to dash into my little story here?
Yes.
Let's go.
Okay.
When I first started developing these bonus episodes, I really thought I'd have a lot
of happy endings, but unfortunately that's not the case because there's so many stories
that you can come up with and the perpetrators may get caught.
20 years later, I was hoping to give you guys a little bit better news, but the best I could
do is bring you an unsolved case today that did come to light after a very long time.
And I wouldn't say there is closure to this case because I really don't believe there's
full closure.
I think there are a lot of answers.
We were talking about this a little while ago and I'd like to kind of start things off
with my mini episodes here with just a question to get you guys thinking about the story.
You guys live in Texas, right?
Yes.
Have you ever considered or maybe you've done this, have you ever just up and moved just
to get a change of scenery or even just for the adventure?
Have you ever picked up and moved?
No.
Yeah.
I guess I could say yes.
For graduate school, I moved to New York City.
Yeah.
Okay.
So change of scenery is nice.
I did that about 10 years ago.
I did that.
I moved to North Carolina, lived there for a couple of years, found that that is a very
poor state as far as income.
So I kind of boomeranged back to Georgia.
But yeah, so I did that a few years myself.
And of course, for you listeners who've been around for a while, you know, I am originally
from Canada.
So yeah, I've lived here and there myself.
But the reason I ask is because we're going to be talking about Sandra DeFelice and she
was a 25 year old single mother who back in 1980 moved with one of her childhood friends
from her home in Boise, Idaho over to Las Vegas, Nevada.
So that's pretty cool.
That's a big change.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I did want to mention, I'm not really sure if she was moving to be closer to family
or if she was just moving because in just a little bit, you'll see that one of her family
members was staying with someone else that she was close to.
But I'm not really sure if she was moving to be closer to family.
And the second thing I was going to do is refer to Sandra's roommate in this story simply
as her roommate, because I've not been able to find any names attached to her roommate.
And I completely understand that.
I'm sure over time, she probably wanted anonymity on this.
So I'll just refer to her as Sandra's roommate because she plays a pretty big role here.
But on December 26th of 1980, Sandra was discovered by her boyfriend deceased somewhere around
9.30 PM in the home that Sandra did share with her roommate near 15th Street and Bonanza
Road, which is located just outside of Las Vegas.
Sandra's home for all purposes, you guys, it was just blocks away from the police department's
local communication center.
Oh no.
I just don't know if that really would have made a difference if there's going to be crime
in the area just because it's a couple blocks away, it's still going to happen.
You know?
You said it was the communication center.
So it sounds like it's just dispatch, not the actual police department.
Yeah.
So it might not be crawling with cops.
It might just be dispatch.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, 911 and sending people out, I get that.
So I didn't really look into all that, but I thought it was interesting.
It's the same to say that it was just around the corner from there.
Well, Sandra was discovered in her bedroom covered with a comforter.
And of course, her boyfriend initially thought that she was just sleeping, but he came across
Sandra and the autopsy results later reported that she had been raped, strangled, stabbed,
and beaten to death.
So isn't that crazy?
That's a lot.
Oh my, that's overkill.
Yeah.
Yes.
I totally agree with you.
Did I mention she was a single mother?
I feel like I did.
Very briefly.
Yeah.
Yeah, very briefly.
Well, just to mention, I said, I wasn't sure if she had moved to be closer to her family,
but her daughter was spending the night away at her grandparents' house, which I am thankful
for.
So she was in no way, I wanted to tell you upfront, she was not injured in this incident.
Do we know how old she was at the time?
Yep.
She was three years old, just a little toddler.
Oh my God.
Well, police initially identified a person of interest rather quickly in this case based
on fingerprints left on a glass inside the house that Sandra and her roommate shared.
These fingerprints belonged to an acquaintance of Sandra's roommate, so nothing really sketchy
about that, just someone was in the house.
They obviously knew whoever it was because they had that glass of water out on the counter,
out on the coffee table, wherever it was left.
And these fingerprints obviously were lifted at the crime scene and they did belong to
a 21-year-old man named Paul Nuttall, and I'm going to emphasize nut on Nuttall there.
Sandra's roommate explained to the police that she did know him, but more so in passing
than anything else.
So he was not a regular visitor.
He didn't come over often.
She mentioned that Nuttall was known in the area more so as a drifter than anything else.
He would just go from house to house sleeping on people's coaches.
So she didn't really know him much more than just in passing.
If you were to go to a party and say hi to him or be introduced to him, that's really,
I think as far as it goes.
On December 26th, 1980, Nuttall appeared at Sandra's home first thing in the morning and
he asked if he could crash on the couch for the day.
Sandra's roommate was getting ready for work.
I mean, do you find that odd that somebody is going to show up first thing in the morning
to just borrow your house while you go off to work?
I was going to say it was the 1980s, but I feel like that's more common like the 60s
or 70s, but I don't know.
Even still, I would say call in the morning like, hey, can I crash at your place tonight?
Yeah, and plus two, it was December 26th, so it was the holidays.
Oh my gosh, that's right after Christmas.
So I had a fight with my family.
Can I come over?
I can't be with my family anymore.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, maybe.
I have nowhere to go and it's cold.
Can I come to your house?
I'm at odds about that because he's just an acquaintance.
I'm sure she probably used her gut instincts and she said no to Nuttall.
She told him that she had a roommate and she didn't think that Sandra would be comfortable
with a stranger in the house because Sandra was still sleeping.
Of course she told him no, which is great.
Go room air.
Yeah.
Nuttall seemed to accept this, but he did continue to hang around and just talk with
the roommate while she's getting ready for work.
But I will tell you this, I kind of get some warm and fuzzy feelings from Sandra's roommate
because she was being polite.
Maybe I don't know if you guys have ever been in the situation where you really wanted somebody
to leave, but you were too polite to ask them to leave.
Yes.
Yeah, I have too.
She offered him a glass of water and of course that's where that glass came from that later
had his prints on it.
The one thing that she felt gave her the heebie jeebies here is that she did see him hovering
around Sandra's door while she was getting ready for work.
He obviously knew somebody was in the house.
Maybe he was scoping, who knows?
The roommate quickly wrapped things up after that and escorted Nuttall out the door with
her so that she went on her day as usual, didn't think anything more of it and there's
that.
That's where everything ends for now.
Yeah, she did the right thing.
I think that she had a really good roommate.
Yeah.
She had everything done.
Well, like I mentioned, Sandra's boyfriend found her later that night around 9.30 PM
and although the fingerprints were found on that glass, this case went cold for the next
41 years.
What?
Oh my gosh.
Oh, isn't that crazy?
Oh my gosh.
Wow.
I was going to ask, did they ever question the boyfriend?
They had to have.
You know what?
I actually read multiple articles on this and not once did I see he was ever questioned.
I'm sure he probably was because we know as true crime podcasters, the people closest
to you are going to be questioned, but I didn't see anything in there and even if he was,
I'm sure that they took him off the list pretty quickly.
And I also think too that he had a friend with him when they discovered Sandra.
So he did have somebody with him when they came into the house.
But I'm going to fast forward to 2021.
In February that year, Las Vegas police received a call from Sandra's daughter who was three
years old back in 1980.
Well, she's obviously in her forties by now and she wanted an update on this case.
So she called investigators to see if she could find out any information about what
happened to her mother.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Wow.
I don't know if you guys ever watched that show, Cold Case.
Have you ever seen it?
I have not.
I'm sure I have.
Okay.
Let's just a side note.
My God is such a good show.
You guys, I swear I cannot go through one storyline without crying at the very end
because it shows what happened at the very beginning and then it goes through that person's
life before everything happens.
It is just so cool that Sandra's daughter came along and asked somebody to open up this
case, which we actually have answers on today.
So if you guys get a chance to watch that show, it's got really nothing to do with what
we're talking about today, but it's such a good show.
I'm sure it's streaming somewhere.
Got to be.
Yeah.
All right.
Upon her request, police did reopen this case and DNA was submitted from some of the testing
sites.
They had a sexual assault kit that they tested for DNA and they were able to obtain male
DNA from underneath Sandra's fingernails.
For her, she went back.
The DNA sample did match that fingerprint found on the glass back in 1980.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, right?
What?
In December of 2021, once these DNA results came back, they did positively link Paul Nuttall
as a suspect and investigators were able to obtain a search warrant to go get his DNA.
Yes.
I know.
This is the happy part.
This is why I'm trying to lean towards this in the dash because I'm always trying to give
some kind of closure to these stories.
Police did confront Nuttall and they asked him if he knew who Sandra DeFelice was or her
roommate.
Now, again, this is back in December, 2021.
He told them no.
He had no idea who they were.
Now remember, 41 years has passed.
He's in his 60s at this point.
I mean, are you going to remember somebody from 40 years ago?
No.
I'm sure you guys don't have.
You can't.
You guys haven't been there yet.
You guys have been there before once.
I can still really tell you no.
Well, I know I'm not because honestly, I'm an 80s child and I know the faces and some
of the names of my high school classmates, but there are some that I can remember their
faces right now.
I don't remember their names from 40 years ago.
Yeah.
Well, you know what'll get people nowadays?
Facebook friends.
I still have Facebook friends from college that were just acquaintances or drinking buddies
and I'm Facebook friends with all of them.
So people aren't going to be able to get away with that anymore.
That is true.
And if you're from my era, you're going to get them from my space.
Yes.
Yeah.
Nice.
I tried logging into mine like seven years ago and it still existed.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Once it's on the internet, it's there forever you all.
So just be careful what you put out there.
Well, also you guys, I think too that Nuddle was a drifter back then.
So he may have just met Sandra in passing, didn't catch her name, anything like that.
So he probably didn't have a lot of interactions with her.
He may not have ever had interactions with her other than that morning that he came by.
There was something called a, I think it's called a buccal swab, which is where they
take that long Q-tip and they swab the inner cheek.
Nuddle agreed to this DNA swab, which obviously came up as a match with what was found under
Sandra's fingernails and the DNA was compared with that fingerprint on the glass.
And you guys can come to your conclusions from here.
Why would he submit to a DNA test if he didn't it?
Well he had a warrant.
How can you forget, how can you forget graphically murdering somebody?
Maybe he suppressed it so much that it just, I don't know.
I don't know people, the brain is fascinating.
You're saying that he traumatized himself with this brutal rape and murder?
I am just throwing stuff out there.
And plus we don't know his psychological capacities at the time because...
He was on drugs.
Yeah, and nothing in the articles that I read even talked about that either.
So I'm in the dark just like you are.
I have no idea.
Well at the age of 64, Paul Nuddle was arrested for the murder of Sandra De Feliz and he was
charged with burglary, sexual assault and murder for these crimes that he committed
when he was only 21 years old.
Wow.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Wow.
I know, right?
As the wheels of justice churned, Paul Nuddle was detained until he went to trial.
He received two psychiatric assessments from mental health professionals and get this,
this might be why he couldn't remember who these people were when he was asked.
He was found to be unfit for trial.
Dementia.
Alzheimer's?
Yeah, one or the other because as of December 26th, 2022, which is just a couple months
ago, he was held without bail at a state psychiatric facility until he is deemed to stand trial
for the murder of Sandra De Feliz.
And here's the clincher.
And this is why I say, I mean, we don't really know.
Does he have dementia or not?
Those were great guesses.
Judge Christy Craig, who is currently overseeing this case, is holding Nuddle at that psychiatric
facility until they can discover if he indeed has the mental capacities to stand trial or
if he's just faking it.
She believes he could be faking it.
Oh my gosh.
Isn't that something?
You learn about it and then you just pretend.
She said, how do you fake dementia and Alzheimer's?
And you just lie.
You lie your face off.
But it's so hard to keep up with lies.
Well, couldn't they do a brain, like an MRI or something?
The one that show parts of your brain?
I don't know if dementia and Alzheimer's actually affect brain lights up.
Well, I will tell you this, I don't know if you guys have heard, but you know how they
would take football players who have had multiple concussions and they would scan their brain?
Yes.
I think they're doing a lot of research on there.
Obviously, we don't have answers on Alzheimer's yet at this point in time, but I think they're
getting closer.
So yeah, they probably did do a scan.
At this point, they're just holding him at that facility just to figure out what's going
on with him.
He could have dementia.
His defense attorneys are arguing that he does suffer from dementia because I believe
from some of the evaluations that he's had is that he is having trouble differentiating
between time and space.
So that might be the reason why he said he did not remember those names when he was questioned.
Now, investigators do not believe...
What's that?
You have another question.
I'm going to have to look up if Alzheimer's actually affect...
Obviously, they affect the brain, but is it going to show up in an MRI?
Is it going to show up?
Probably not in a CAT scan, but are they going to have to pull out the big guns and spend
big monies to do the overtime scans and how...
And compare.
Are they actually going to want to do that in a trial?
Probably not unless it's like a big case.
Or is he just going to end up sitting there and if he does in fact have dementia, just
continue to deteriorate?
Yeah.
And he's in the right spot for that if he is.
Well, yeah.
I mean, he's better to be there for sure if he does in fact have this horrible disease.
And I'll tell you too, I did see a picture of him and first of all, he looks ultra scary,
like uber scary.
I would not want to meet him face to face.
But secondly, I can kind of see that he's maybe deteriorating just a little bit.
I mean, that's just me just outsider looking in, but if you were to see his face, go look
him up.
You might agree with me.
I'm not really sure.
Yeah.
So investigators do not even believe that Sandra DeFelice is Nuttall's only victim in
this case as far as sexual assaults back in the 80s.
So to our listeners, if you believe that you are a victim of Paul Nuttall, you can contact
the Las Vegas Metro Police Department at 702-828-3421 or call Crime Stoppers at 702-385-5555.
So little side note, you all, that's really the story behind Sandra DeFelice.
That's why I call it the dash.
It's not that long.
Yeah.
And I wanted to give you guys a side note on this because the house, unfortunately,
where she was found is now the Las Vegas headquarters for a little motorcycle group that you may
have heard of them called the Hells Angels.
Wow.
I know.
Isn't that something?
That is.
That's kind of metal.
Well, they have to set up shop somewhere.
I don't want to go past them.
Oh my gosh.
Wow.
That is the story of Sandra DeFelice.
I had never heard of this case before, and I'm glad that you're able to share it with
us because that's bonkers.
Yeah.
I'm always, I'm trying to find stories where we do have some answers on this.
Now, I have no idea how long it's going to take for him to go to trial, but hopefully
within the next year, I mean, they say the wheels of justice do go rather slowly, but
hopefully they will come up with some answers later and he can go to trial.
If not, I mean, I hope he's in the right space where he needs to be.
If he does have dementia, that's never a good thing for anybody, but still.
At least he's in a facility that way he's not out and about there.
Right.
Even if, especially if he doesn't have dementia, he's no longer on the streets.
Yes, but I don't know how long they can keep him if they find him fit.
So I guess if they find him fit, he's going to go to trial and they have his DNA.
So he's going to go to prison.
Yeah.
So there you go.
We're going to tell our listeners to be sure to check out Katie and Emily with Malice and
Mocktails wherever you get your podcasts, plus on Instagram and all their social medias.
Cool.
Thank you so much.
This was so fun.
That was a lot of fun.
Yeah.
I am just loving that I'm talking to so many podcasters.
It's really cool to listen to everybody and then have a two-way conversation because I
get to know you as I'm listening to your podcasts.
I'm getting to know everything about your personalities and then to talk to you is just
such a great experience.
So thank you so much for being here.
Oh, you're welcome.
You're very welcome.
Thanks so much for having us.
Absolutely.
Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found, True Crime Podcast and our Dash mini-series.
Every week, we'll bring you a variety of True Crime episodes, a little dash of hope,
plus special bonus episodes with some really cool guests.
Before we go, we'd love for you to share this podcast with your friends and give us a five-star
review.
Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found or visit
our website at DyingToBeFound.com, spelled just like you see it in our logo.
Better yet, click on our Linktree account found in the show notes where you'll find all the
information in one place.
Be sure to dash in every Wednesday for our mini-episodes, plus every Thursday when I
get together with some of my family members.
Thanks again, everyone, and we'll talk to you soon.