1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,040 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:12,340 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 3 00:00:12,340 --> 00:00:18,560 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:34,080 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,680 Hi everyone, I'm Deb. 6 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:36,840 And I'm Beth. 7 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,720 And we want to thank you for choosing our podcast Dying to be Found. 8 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,000 My sister Beth is here to join me today. 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,720 And that can only mean one thing. 10 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,760 We're going to talk to you about the Victorian era. 11 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,160 Yay! 12 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:53,440 Beth, I know that's your favorite. 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,160 So that's what I always tend to go with. 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:01,920 But unfortunately, the thing is, I don't find anything coming from the Victorian era except for over in England. 15 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,520 So that's where we're headed today. 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:04,160 Okay. 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:12,440 If any of our listeners have a storyline from the Victorian era and it's not located over in England, please DM us. 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:18,160 Today, I'd like to give out a shout out to one of our listeners that listens to every single podcast. 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,160 Oh my gosh. 20 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,240 I love that. 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:21,000 Tell me. 22 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,720 Al. 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,520 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,840 Al, thank you so much for listening. 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:27,960 I need some feedback here. 26 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:28,760 What does he say? 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,720 I hop into the car and we're going somewhere and our podcast is on. 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:34,760 Serious? 29 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:35,480 Yes. 30 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,720 For our new listeners, Al would be Beth's hubby. 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,360 Yes. 32 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,120 Oh, he's dedicated in so many ways, isn't he? 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:42,680 Yes. 34 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:43,480 Hi, darling. 35 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:44,920 Oh, hi, Al. 36 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,080 Thank you for listening. 37 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,840 It's always good to see you whenever we're podcasting too, because he'll pop in from time to time just to say hi. 38 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:51,280 Yes. 39 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,000 Oh, that's lovely. 40 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,600 All right, Beth, anything going on that you want to talk about? 41 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:56,760 Oh, not really. 42 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,720 Just slowing down a little bit because it's summer and do a lot of camping. 43 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,040 But other than that, that's it. 44 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:02,440 Good. 45 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,560 So what I'm hearing is you're relaxing. 46 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:05,920 Yes, I am. 47 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,840 I love that. 48 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,520 I'm relaxing on the back porch. 49 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:14,880 I put a single air mattress out on the back porch and I sunbathe. 50 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,520 Because I don't have a pool, but my next host, maybe, maybe not, will have a pool. 51 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,800 So nice. 52 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:21,440 It would. 53 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,480 I say that I don't get in any water that doesn't have chlorine in it. 54 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,600 And I live by the lake. 55 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:27,320 You're funny. 56 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:32,600 All right, Beth, we're going to talk about one of the most famous serial killers known to man. 57 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,120 And we're going to go all the way back to 1888. 58 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,800 So again, England, my apologies, but you guys had a lot going on back then. 59 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,120 And Beth, I have talked about a couple other cases with you from that area. 60 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,120 And I'm going to say they're pretty brutal. 61 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Yes, most definitely. 62 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,600 Today, we're going to talk about Jack the Ripper. 63 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,040 Wonderful topic. 64 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,880 I was waiting to get to this one. 65 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,720 I am very surprised. 66 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,520 There was a lot less information on Jack the Ripper than I imagined. 67 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,000 I thought at this point in time, there would be a ton of information on him. 68 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:09,600 Yes. 69 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:15,200 I wanted to give you a little bit of terminology because I've heard the word Ripper a time or two. 70 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,960 It means that Jack the Ripper is not the only Ripper out there. 71 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,120 There's a ton of Rippers. 72 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,800 And one of them we have talked about, that would be H.H. Holmes. 73 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,760 Exactly. 74 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:32,520 Collins Dictionary defines a Ripper as a murderer who dissects or mutilates their victims' bodies. 75 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,440 Basically, Beth, every Ripper out there is associated with the most infamous Ripper of all. 76 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:44,920 And for simplicity, during our episode here, I'm going to refer to him or her as Jack 77 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,600 because there is speculation out there that Jack is a Jill. 78 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,280 Okay, that's a new one. 79 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Did you know that? 80 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:51,600 No. 81 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,200 I know, right? 82 00:03:53,200 --> 00:04:01,240 During the summer of 1888, five, possibly six sex workers were all murdered within one mile of each other 83 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,560 in the Whitechapel District that's located in East London, England. 84 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:11,400 And there's a little bit of confusion on how many victims there are associated with Jack the Ripper, 85 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,800 but there were five definitely strong links. 86 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,560 And I'll go into that in just a little bit, but there could possibly be six or even more. 87 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,760 As far as the information that we have today, there are definitely five, unfortunately. 88 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:30,200 Before I get into those victims, Beth, I want to let you know how the public perceived sex workers 89 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,720 back in 1888. 90 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:32,680 Good idea. 91 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,200 According to the History Channel, sex work at the time was not illegal. 92 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:44,640 In fact, there were plenty of brothels and I'm going to call them the projects because I can't really think of any other term, 93 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,040 but they actually had housing to accommodate the industry. 94 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:48,520 Did you know? 95 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,840 Yes, I took that in high school, English history. 96 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:56,880 Surprising to me that they talk about true crime in literature classes. 97 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:02,080 It wasn't true crime, it was all about the housing in England and how they throw housing. 98 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:02,640 Oh, okay. 99 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,520 And they talked about how they would have housing for the sex work industry? 100 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,240 Yes. 101 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Well, they would call it something else back in my day. 102 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:12,880 I got you. 103 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:13,520 All right. 104 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:21,600 Now, sex work was illegal under certain circumstances and that's if the sex workers caused a public disturbance. 105 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,040 I don't know what kind of disturbance that would be. 106 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,280 That would really be the only time that I know of that it would become illegal. 107 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:36,400 Sex workers were given the term ladies of the night and murders were rarely reported to the police. 108 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:43,280 Murders were not common, but beatings were, which could potentially result in death from time to time. 109 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:45,280 I guess there's a fine line there. 110 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:45,680 Yeah. 111 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,960 But for the majority of the time, nothing was really reported. 112 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,520 That's pretty sad, beaten to death. 113 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:52,480 Absolutely. 114 00:05:52,480 --> 00:06:00,000 I'm going to talk about the victims here, Beth, because truly, like I said, there's not a ton of information on Jack the Ripper himself. 115 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:06,000 The first victim, I'm not really sure if this is Jack's first victim or not. 116 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Her name is Martha Tabrum. 117 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:16,320 She was found mortally wounded near Whitechapel High Street with 39 stab wounds to her throat, chest, and abdomen. 118 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:26,240 And her injuries were not as gruesome as Jack's next five victims, so kind of why authorities are not sure that she was his victim at all. 119 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,440 The next victim was Mary Ann Polly Nichols. 120 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:36,480 Mary was a single mother of six who had fallen on hard times after leaving her husband when he had an affair. 121 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,880 That's pretty sad, a poor single mother and of six children. 122 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:52,000 Mm-hmm. One of the things that I found as I talk about these victims, Beth, a lot of them fell on hard times and most of them turned to alcohol and sex work. 123 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,520 So in Mary's case, she had turned to alcohol. 124 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:03,680 She worked menial jobs, then eventually turned to sex work on London's East End to help make ends meet for her six kids. 125 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:10,160 Mary was homeless and drank away any money that she did earn while working the streets of London. 126 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:21,600 On August 31st, 1888, at 3.45 in the morning, two men were walking along a footpath in Buck's Row, Whitechapel, and found Mary with her throat cut. 127 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,440 She was also disemboweled. 128 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Oh dear. 129 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:31,520 Yeah. I guess I was wondering why are these guys walking around at that hour, but I'm sure pubs were probably open. 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:42,240 One other thing I didn't mention is that I guess before they really pegged Jack the Ripper with a name, they called these the Whitechapel murders because most of them happened in that area. 131 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:48,160 And it's a real area. I actually looked that up while I was researching this. So Whitechapel, England, which is East London. 132 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,080 So Whitechapel is the name of a city? 133 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,040 I would say yes. 134 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:51,280 Okay. 135 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,480 City or town. 136 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:52,960 Okay. 137 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,560 I probably should have said that earlier, but you know what? No time like the present. 138 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:12,240 All right. The next victim is Annie Chapman, who, Beth, was connected to royalty. She wasn't a bloodline with the royals, but she hobnobbed in Windsor as a child and after she was married. 139 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,360 So she just went to different parties and such. She rubbed elbows with royal descents. 140 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,240 Very interesting. 141 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:30,880 But like Mary Nichols, Annie separated from her husband and also turned to alcohol where she liked to scrap with other women and pretty much isolated herself from society. 142 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:38,880 So she was a recluse of sorts. Annie was discovered less than a mile away where Mary Nichols had been found a week earlier. 143 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,320 And in this case, Beth, Jack had removed her womb. 144 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,240 That's very strange, isn't it? 145 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,480 It is. You have to be very angry with a woman for that. 146 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,920 And you have to know your medical background. 147 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:58,880 Yeah, because if they're very precise and they know exactly where everything is located, absolutely. Back in the day too, right? 148 00:08:58,880 --> 00:08:59,440 Yes. 149 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:12,880 A leather apron had been found near Annie's body and for a hot minute, Beth, police suspected a man named John Pizer, who would walk the streets and threaten sex workers by telling them that he was going to rip them open. 150 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:13,520 Oh. 151 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,200 If they didn't give him any money. 152 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:16,960 So he, what do you call that? 153 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,080 Extortionist? 154 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,120 Mm-hmm. 155 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:28,000 John was able to provide a solid alibi of his whereabouts when Annie was killed. So, of course, police dropped him as a suspect pretty quickly. 156 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:38,240 Now, police speculated that Jack was a medical professional, just like you said, based on how quickly and efficiently he was able to remove Annie's womb. 157 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:55,360 While police were investigating Annie's death, the coroner on the case provided information about a person of interest who had offered him, get this, 20 pounds for every womb that he could provide to a pathological museum in one of London's medical schools. 158 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,040 That is strange. 159 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:03,200 That kind of reminded me when we did H.H. Holmes and we were talking about the scarcity of skeletons. 160 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Yes. 161 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:09,280 This is the same era, because didn't H.H. Holmes happen in 1887? 162 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,000 He actually was one of the suspects. 163 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:12,880 What? 164 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:13,200 Yeah. 165 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:20,480 Oh, you know what? I think I remember talking to you about that and I said that we would do Jack the Ripper. That was a long time ago that we did that one. 166 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,120 Oh, it was. I think it was one of the first. 167 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,440 But H.H. Holmes was in America. 168 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,080 He traveled to England regularly. 169 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,160 Oh, and it was the same time. 170 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:40,320 Yes. The reason I know the details of H.H. Holmes so well is I actually read a whole book on him. So that sticked with you. 171 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,920 Okay. I haven't read that, but I'll tell you that is in our English classes in high school. 172 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:46,640 H.H. Holmes? 173 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,320 Yeah. What was that book you read? 174 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,920 Something about the devil. 175 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,360 The devil in the white city? 176 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,320 Yeah, that's it. 177 00:10:52,320 --> 00:11:02,800 Yeah. I was flabbergasted when my students started talking to me about that book because I had just started our podcast and I hadn't yet told my students that I had a podcast. 178 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:15,440 Okay. Getting back to this with the 20 pounds for every wound that this person could collect, that was about $2,400 U.S. dollars or $3,171 Canadian in today's currency. 179 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:16,560 Gee, that was a lot. 180 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:17,200 Yeah. 181 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:17,760 Yeah. 182 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,880 And so I suppose with H.H. Holmes, he was a businessman. He was making good money. 183 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:30,080 Okay. On September 30th, 1888, Jack performed a double murder in less than one hour. 184 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:30,960 What? 185 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:43,200 I know. The first victim was Elizabeth Stride. She was a self-professed survivor of the Princess Alice disaster, although no records indicated that she was on board. 186 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,080 I didn't hear about that. Is there any more detail? 187 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:53,280 There is because, you know, rabbit hole here. I had to go look all this up because at first I want to sound like I know what I'm talking about. 188 00:11:53,280 --> 00:12:06,400 But secondly, I did go look it up. The Princess Alice disaster was an incident that occurred in September 1878 when a British paddle steamboat sank in the Thames River after colliding with another passenger ship. 189 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:14,480 First of all, I didn't realize that the Thames River was big enough for passenger boats like that. Maybe a paddle boat. 190 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,560 I know. I'm with you on that. 191 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:25,280 Yeah. Well, the two boats collided with each other and unfortunately, Beth, 600 to 700 people died in that incident. 192 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:26,080 That's a lot. 193 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:32,080 Mm-hmm. This was declared the largest catastrophe with an inland British waterway. 194 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:43,680 Elizabeth claimed to have lost her husband and children on board Princess Alice that day, but there's no record of that and she was never clear on how many children she had lost. 195 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:47,200 So that's why they're speculating that she was not on board the ship. 196 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:47,600 Oh. 197 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,760 Elizabeth drifted around London. She did eventually marry or remarry in this case. 198 00:12:53,760 --> 00:13:03,120 She found a job at a coffee shop, but after her husband passed away, Beth, Elizabeth found herself on London's east end, working the streets to earn money. 199 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:12,120 Elizabeth was discovered deceased off a dark Whitechapel side road around one o'clock in the morning on September 30th, 1888. 200 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:18,200 An hour later, Catherine Eddowes was another case of societal misfortune. 201 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:30,800 On September 29th, 1888, this would be the day before, she had been arrested for public drunkenness and was released in the early morning hours of September 30th after she sobered up. 202 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:37,160 Police found her on the streets, kind of propped up against the wall in a drunken slumber, I guess. 203 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,080 Police picked her up, sobered her up, and sent her on her way. 204 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,720 When Catherine left the precinct, she turned towards the Whitechapel area. 205 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:53,160 At 1.45 a.m., Catherine was discovered in Mitre Square, a small, quiet area in East London. 206 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:58,360 Her face had been mutilated and her uterus and left kidney were missing. 207 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,680 See, this doesn't sound like H.H. Holmes. 208 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:04,200 Well, it doesn't, but his name was just thrown out there. 209 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,360 He never had any charges or anything. 210 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,440 Yeah, so he's just a suspect. 211 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:09,080 Yes. 212 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,640 Police were able to recover Catherine's apron that she had or a shawl. 213 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,280 I saw a couple of different conflicting stories here. 214 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,960 So she either had an apron or a shawl on her person. 215 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:28,600 Police were able to recover that a few blocks away, which seemed to have been planted by Jack the Ripper because, Beth, this is kind of weird. 216 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:36,200 He left a cryptic message written in chalk on a wall above where the apron or shawl had been discarded. 217 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:43,400 And it read, quote, the Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing, unquote. 218 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:51,240 Now, let me just say the spelling of Jews is J-U-W-E-S, and it does not refer to Jewish people. 219 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:56,600 It refers to a Masonic plot, which is connected to the Freemasons. 220 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:57,400 Have you heard of them? 221 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:57,960 Oh, yes. 222 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,560 Do you have those in Canada? 223 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:00,120 Yes. 224 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:00,600 Okay. 225 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Yeah. 226 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,680 And I watch Oak Island. 227 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:03,720 What is that? 228 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,240 Oh, you don't know Oak Island? 229 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:06,440 No, tell me. 230 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:14,120 Well, there's an island in Nova Scotia that had a lot of gold buried. 231 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,320 Oh. 232 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:21,240 So for the last 10 years, or maybe a little more, you can catch the show every week. 233 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,960 And we've been watching this every week for 10 years, where they're drilling down. 234 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,640 They even drained a swamp. 235 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:28,680 Wow. 236 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,200 Is this streaming or is this on regular television? 237 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:33,960 It's on regular television. 238 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Well, I'm going to have to look it up on streaming because I don't have regular television. 239 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,120 So you're saying the Freemasons are digging? 240 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,480 It's not the Freemason. 241 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,000 All this is connected to the Freemason. 242 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:45,560 Okay. 243 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:47,240 All right. 244 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:48,760 I'm going to have to go look that up. 245 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:49,800 That sounds interesting. 246 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:51,240 All right. 247 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,920 Well, the term Jews, J-U-W-E-S, is also connected to devil worship. 248 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,640 But truly, Beth, I found myself going down that rabbit hole with this one. 249 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:07,320 There's so many definitions of this, so I would encourage you to go look that one up as well. 250 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:13,240 Ultimately, police did speculate that Jack the Ripper's attacks were racially motivated. 251 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,400 Racially motivated against who? 252 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,440 Exactly. 253 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:23,880 In the meantime, when this double murder occurred, the news press finally associated Mary, 254 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:29,720 Annie, Elizabeth, and Catherine's murders with Jack the Ripper based on an anonymous letter 255 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:35,560 that was sent to the London Metropolitan Police Service, also known as the Scotland Yard. 256 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,840 This letter was written in red ink and it taunted police with what he had done, 257 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,400 what he would continue to do, and the letter was signed Jack the Ripper. 258 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,720 I wondered how the name came about. 259 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,320 Oh, you'd be surprised because I have more information on that. 260 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,040 Cool. 261 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,120 Okay, Beth, interesting fact. 262 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,840 It seems that whoever wrote the letter, and I'm going to talk about some hoaxes in just a minute, 263 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,640 but it seems like the press came up with it. 264 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,160 Oh, so this wasn't written by the real Jack the Ripper? 265 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,240 Probably not, and I will get into that in just a moment, but yeah, 266 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,320 they think that it was somebody from the press that gave the name Jack the Ripper. 267 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,120 Interesting, eh? 268 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:14,760 Yeah. 269 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:21,720 Prior to these attacks, there was one victim who was mortally wounded on April 3rd, 1888. 270 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,040 So this is like a prequel, Beth. 271 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,920 What I'm about to tell you came before the five victims that I mentioned. 272 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:35,960 She survived briefly, but before she died, she was able to say that she was attacked by a local gang. 273 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,840 Again, there's a little bit of speculation here, and police wondered for a hot minute if it was 274 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:46,120 Jack the Ripper or if it was gang related, and that's why I'm not giving a name because 275 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:47,960 we just don't know that for sure. 276 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,880 One thing police did believe at the time is that four out of the five victims that I had mentioned 277 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,680 were working the streets when they were attacked. 278 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,200 Modern historians feel that three of the victims, Nichols, Chapman, and Echols, 279 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,440 were not actually sex workers. 280 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,640 They were just later victims who worked occasionally to make ends meet. 281 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,520 So that was not their primary source of income. 282 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,440 That's what the historians are saying now. 283 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,120 Beth, you know, I love to say the word wackadoodles. 284 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:19,400 Yes, yes. 285 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,040 Yep. 286 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,680 And so let's get to that anonymous letter that was sent. 287 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,720 According to the police, they do believe that it was a news journalist that wrote it, 288 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,480 and it was not Jack the Ripper. 289 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,440 But after that letter arrived, all sorts of letters began arriving at police headquarters, 290 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,880 Beth, because we know there are copycats out there. 291 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:38,440 Yes. 292 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,680 Why do they want to interfere with a investigation like that? 293 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:43,880 I just don't get it. 294 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,920 I don't neither. 295 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:50,600 Well, police regretted publicizing the fact that there was a letter that had been signed by 296 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,960 Jack the Ripper after all that occurred because they had to start investigating everything. 297 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,800 They just added to their work pile. 298 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:03,320 One of the letters dubbed Mr. Lusk's Letter from Hell, and this was said to authorities 299 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,360 that contained half a kidney that the author said that he had taken from his victim. 300 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:09,240 Can you believe that? 301 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,000 No, that's pretty gross. 302 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,360 Yeah, there we go. 303 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,080 That is the term of a wackadoodle to me. 304 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,400 Police did feel that this letter in particular came from a medical student. 305 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,320 Okay, well, now they're practicing and there's no telling what they did, right? 306 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:23,720 Right. 307 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,240 All right, the last victim was Mary Jane Kelly. 308 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,280 Mary was discovered on November 9th, 1888 in her rented flat. 309 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,960 And this is probably the worst one, Beth. 310 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,920 I was horrified when I learned what Jack the Ripper did to her. 311 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,120 I can't imagine anything being more horrifying than what was already done to the others. 312 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:51,560 Well, before I tell you what happened, I will say that around four o'clock that morning, 313 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,640 an upstairs neighbor heard a noise, could have been a scream, it could have been a commotion. 314 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,000 Regardless of the fact, the neighbor did nothing. 315 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,440 They didn't call the police. 316 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,600 I don't know, may have been a heavy sleeper. 317 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:10,440 I know what that's like, but I mean, if you're a heavy sleeper, could you imagine maybe you 318 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,240 were dreaming? 319 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,520 I can kind of imagine that. 320 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,440 Yes, I can imagine that too. 321 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:20,520 All right, just before 11 a.m., Mary's on-again, off-again boyfriend came around. 322 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,960 And this is what he found. 323 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:29,480 Mary had been skinned down to the bones, and he was only able to identify her by her eyes 324 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:30,760 and her ears. 325 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,760 That's really bad. 326 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,360 I don't even think we hear much of that in today's age. 327 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:37,160 I know. 328 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,200 And I mean, they had to have just taken, ugh, and I don't, okay, my imagination is going 329 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,000 to go wild here. 330 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,800 I'm just thinking about how meticulous this person was and the time that it would have 331 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,240 taken to do that. 332 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,120 Mm-hmm. 333 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:55,560 So a couple more murders occurred after Jack's five or six victims. 334 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,760 However, there was a cooling off period. 335 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,640 This could have occurred because Jack was acutely aware of the heightened police presence 336 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,080 after killing his victims in the Whitechapel area. 337 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:13,880 However, around eight months later on July 17th, 1889, another victim was discovered 338 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,920 with two stab wounds to her throat, much like the other victims suffered. 339 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:24,120 She also had a deep cut that ran down her breast all the way down to her belly button 340 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,920 with several slashes on her lower abdomen. 341 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,560 Although the victims' wounds were similar to Jack the Ripper's M.O., police do not 342 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,320 feel that this was his work. 343 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,640 I wonder why they thought that. 344 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,240 I don't know. 345 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:43,240 I mean, the victims weren't disemboweled or none of their organs were taken. 346 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,280 I don't know. 347 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:45,720 That's just my guess. 348 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,960 Now, two months later on September 10th, 1889, an unidentified woman was discovered under 349 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:57,400 a bridge close to where Jack's fourth victim, Elizabeth Stride, had been found. 350 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:03,640 This victim suffered mutilation of her torso, but like the victim before her that I had 351 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,640 just mentioned, it was quite different from Jack the Ripper's calling card. 352 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:14,520 The last murder in the Whitechapel area was discovered on February 13th, 1891. 353 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,160 So that's about three years after Jack the Ripper was at his height. 354 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:25,800 Although this victim's throat had been slashed, she had not sustained any bodily mutilation, 355 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:26,840 which is good. 356 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,400 Yes. 357 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,280 Police feel that this murder may have been interrupted because the victim was found 358 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,120 alive and unfortunately, Beth, she did expire shortly thereafter. 359 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:37,560 Oh, that's a shame. 360 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,680 I know. 361 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:44,840 Any murders that had occurred after 1888 were not considered to be the hands of Jack the 362 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:45,800 Ripper. 363 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:51,800 Detectives had multiple theories as to why the Whitechapel murders stopped and rather 364 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,000 abruptly. 365 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,680 Number one, Jack the Ripper got locked up for unrelated crimes, whether he was put in 366 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,080 prison or an asylum, because, you know, asylums were pretty popular back then. 367 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,480 Yeah. 368 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,280 Police thought that maybe Jack died possibly by disease or malnutrition. 369 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,080 I'm sorry. 370 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,280 I don't know about this one. 371 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,320 He seems rather healthy if he's going to go on that rampage, but disease and maltrition 372 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,880 were also very prevalent during that era. 373 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:23,480 Their last reason that they thought the attacks stopped was that the pressure of high police 374 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:30,280 presence scared Jack off and he may have come too close for comfort and almost gotten caught, 375 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,680 which would have kept him under the radar. 376 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:38,680 So those are just some reasons why they feel Jack was just a short-lived situation. 377 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,680 Now, let me talk about the suspect list here. 378 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,680 There's just a couple suspects. 379 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,880 I had already mentioned one, that person who was out in the streets threatening sex workers. 380 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,680 The suspect list for Jack the Ripper was very small at the time. 381 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:59,080 From the get-go, police had a hard time identifying anyone due to the lack of witnesses and Jack's 382 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,680 ability to go unnoticed. 383 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,280 I mean, he was doing it in the middle of the night when everybody's sleeping, right? 384 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:04,680 Uh-huh. 385 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:10,680 Police did, however, feel that Jack was in the medical field or could have been a butcher 386 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:16,680 due to lack of better words, Beth, very technical and very precise in these attemps. 387 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,480 One suspect was a lawyer and a teacher who was interested in surgery. 388 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,880 He was a little bit wacky, but was later found dead after disappearing in 1889. 389 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,880 A second suspect was a Russian physician who had homicidal tendencies and was later sent 390 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,080 to an asylum. 391 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Another suspect was a local resident who held a lot of animosity against sex workers. 392 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:47,080 He was also sent to an asylum shortly after the last murder. 393 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:52,680 One or two other suspects were on police radar, but not enough to continue following leads. 394 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,080 I'm going to suppose one of them was H.H. Holmes. 395 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:55,880 Uh-huh. 396 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:03,080 So I mentioned that in 1888, the suspect list was small, but Beth, the cool thing about 397 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:09,880 this is, you know, I love to talk about older cases because DNA always makes an appearance. 398 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,680 What? 399 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:11,880 Back then? 400 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:12,680 Oh, no, no. 401 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,680 No, this is like modern times. 402 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Oh, yes. 403 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:15,880 Yeah. 404 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,080 So guess what? 405 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:17,480 What? 406 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,080 The suspect list is now over 100. 407 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:21,880 That's a lot. 408 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,480 Can you imagine? 409 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,280 No. 410 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:30,280 Another theory, oddly enough, I watched a TV show back in the early 80s. 411 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:37,480 The whole show centered around royalty, not the lady, but they are saying that there was 412 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,880 a prince who committed this crime. 413 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:40,680 Wow. 414 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,280 Wait, are you talking about somebody from England? 415 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:44,680 Yes. 416 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,880 Really? 417 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:46,680 Yes. 418 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:53,080 They may have mentioned who the prince they thought was, but I can't recall from that 419 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,280 many years ago, but I do picture the stagecoach coming up and yeah. 420 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,080 Interesting though, besides what I'm talking about right now, this is all I found on Jack 421 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:03,480 the Ripper. 422 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,880 I didn't see anything like that, like what you just mentioned. 423 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:06,680 Uh-huh. 424 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,680 I didn't see anything on H.H. Holmes. 425 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,280 So let's talk about DNA. 426 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,280 In 2019, Forensic Science did their job. 427 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,680 According to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, also known as 428 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:25,080 AAAS, scientists believe that they have an identity on Jack the Ripper. 429 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,880 Get out. 430 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,080 Uh-huh. 431 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,880 He happened to be one of the police's prime suspects back in 1888. 432 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:39,880 Jack the Ripper could very well be 23-year-old Aaron Kosminski, a Polish barber living in 433 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,080 the area at the time that Jack was active. 434 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,680 And Beth, this would be the local resident that I had mentioned to you that had animosity 435 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,280 against the sex workers and ended up in the asylum. 436 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,880 Well, I do have a question. 437 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:54,280 Yeah. 438 00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:01,080 Just wondering, how would a barber know how to disembowel and to get the womb of one of 439 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,280 the ladies? 440 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,880 That's a very good question. 441 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,880 Maybe he had a hobby and was interested in science and just went to the library and picked 442 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,480 up some anatomy books. 443 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:17,880 Maybe his intelligence was extremely high because you know a lot of serial killers have 444 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,480 a very high IQ. 445 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:19,880 Yes. 446 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,480 So he could have been that. 447 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,680 But that's a great question. 448 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,880 If our listeners have an answer to that, please let us know. 449 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:33,080 Even though the DNA was linked directly to Kosminski, experts cannot say that he is 100% 450 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:33,880 Jack the Ripper. 451 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:39,480 So as far as cases go, Beth, this one still remains unsolved. 452 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:45,080 And I think that's most likely because this case, honestly, it happened 135 years ago. 453 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,280 There's no one around, no more witnesses. 454 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,480 The investigators aren't here anymore to support modern evidence. 455 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:58,280 And I will mention though, in 2011, the Scotland Yard refused to release information on this 456 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,280 case for one reason or another. 457 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,080 I think that they had mentioned it would interfere with investigators' efforts to solve the case. 458 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,080 But that was how long ago now? 459 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:07,880 12 years? 460 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:08,280 Yes. 461 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,880 Over the years, DNA samples were taken from a letter that Jack had sent to the police 462 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:20,280 back in 1888 and the results pointed to another suspect by the name of Walter Sickert. 463 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:26,280 However, some experts feel that letter was fake because, Beth, I mentioned a ton of wackadoodles 464 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,680 came out of the woodwork there looking for a copycat. 465 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:29,480 Mm-hmm. 466 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,680 Whether or not this letter came from the press or from Sickert, we will never know. 467 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:41,480 If I had also mentioned too that Jack the Ripper could actually be Jill, is it possible? 468 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,680 We don't know for sure. 469 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,880 There's not a lot of evidence pointing towards that. 470 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:53,080 Regardless of all of these theories, DNA analysis suggests that whoever Jack the Ripper was 471 00:28:53,080 --> 00:29:00,120 likely had brown hair and brown eyes, which according to the AAAS, aligned with eyewitness 472 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,720 accounts and Aaron Kosminski's description. 473 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,920 Let me be clear though, although Kosminski is linked to the case by DNA, again, we don't 474 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,560 know if he's really Jack or not. 475 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,600 It looks like Jack the Ripper will always remain a mystery at this point unless something 476 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,960 wild happens and detectives give an official name. 477 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,520 Otherwise, Beth, that's about all I've got. 478 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,720 I really thought there'd be more information, like I said, but yeah, I'm so glad DNA came 479 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,880 into play because we can at least say that we're a little bit closer to knowing. 480 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:34,760 For sure. 481 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,160 But that's all I've got today on Jack the Ripper. 482 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,520 Well, that was a lot. 483 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,520 But on the other hand, I thought there was going to be a lot more information. 484 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,640 Exactly. 485 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,000 I thought so too. 486 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,360 I could only find more information on the victims. 487 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,960 Very little about Jack. 488 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,560 That was surprising to me. 489 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,920 So, Deb, do you have a teachable moment for us today? 490 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,040 Why, yes, I do. 491 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,280 No, if I can directly relate this to our storyline today, but I'm going to talk a little bit 492 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,280 about how sex work has changed very little over the past century. 493 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:13,320 There are various forms now and unfortunately, sex trafficking has become an epidemic across 494 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:14,120 the globe. 495 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:19,320 Some countries still don't recognize or respect women as part of a productive society. 496 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,240 Hollywood has gone crazy with all these cases you hear in the news. 497 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:30,840 And although there are tons of agencies fighting against sex trafficking, just when they close 498 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,640 one ring down, Beth, another one pops up. 499 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:39,880 So, my teachable moment here is that we need to do more to educate people on the real issues 500 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,400 surrounding sex trafficking. 501 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:48,520 Social media is shaping young minds to flaunt their sexuality and that gives off mixed messages. 502 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,640 Alternative options should be made available mainly to women who find themselves on the 503 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,640 streets, set up with a John. 504 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880 I think that's what they still call them today. 505 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:03,800 We have banks, Beth, we have rehab centers, government programs, and the likes for so 506 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,640 many high-risk lifestyles. 507 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,160 Why can't we have more for people who are trying to get themselves off the streets? 508 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,160 Absolutely. 509 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:17,320 Yeah, so there's no wrong or right answer here and we just need to take sex trafficking 510 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,120 seriously. 511 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:23,880 And I don't know if this teachable moment really links anything that we did talk about, 512 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,800 but I just thought that this was a good time to talk about that. 513 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,160 So, that's my teachable moment. 514 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,520 Another great one, Deb. 515 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,240 I think the public should look to all those agencies that are out there. 516 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:36,360 Absolutely. 517 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,880 Well, we would love to receive some feedback from our listeners on today's storyline or 518 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,640 any of our other episodes. 519 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,360 Be sure to DM us on Instagram if you have more to add to this episode. 520 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,800 Dying to be Found and Dying to be Found the Dash are now a part of SoundSlice Podcast 521 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:54,760 Productions. 522 00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:00,440 So, if you're interested in becoming part of this network, email soundslicepod at gmail.com 523 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,360 or check out their website at soundslicepod.com. 524 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,320 That's all we've got. 525 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,360 Talk to you soon. 526 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,880 And that's a wrap. 527 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,000 That is a wrap. 528 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,320 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. 529 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,520 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 530 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,200 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 531 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:28,200 You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking 532 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,840 on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 533 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,520 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash Dying 534 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,560 to be Found spelled just like you see it on our logo. 535 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,120 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing or if you'd like a 536 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:44,680 sticker. 537 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,720 With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. 538 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,720 We will talk to you all next week. 539 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,720 Bye.