1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,200 Hey everybody, are you Always Talking Crime? If you just said yes, well, you are in luck. 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:14,980 My name is Kimmy and I am the host of the Always Talking Crime podcast. It's available 3 00:00:14,980 --> 00:00:22,400 on all the platforms everywhere and each Sunday I'm going to bring you a new episode. We'll 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:30,120 talk about serial killers, spree killers, those black widows, and everything else true 5 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:38,680 crime. Can't wait for you to join me. Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 6 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,160 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions 7 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:49,240 on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended 8 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:55,080 for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion 9 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:15,600 is strongly advised. Hi everyone, this is Deb. Welcome to the Dash, a DB2F mini episode 10 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:21,960 series that I put together to practice my solo storytelling or better yet to showcase 11 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:27,720 some fabulous podcasters that I've met from around the world in our true crime community. 12 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,640 The Dash is still new to me and I'd like to know what you guys think about episodes so 13 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:38,120 far. Some of the things I really love about the podcasts that I listen to is the host 14 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:44,960 personalities and storytelling. And today I've got the best of both worlds because Kimmy 15 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:51,080 from Always Talking Crime is here to get tangled up in my little web of tales today. 16 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:56,840 And I started listening to Kimmy a while back and really you guys, she is as real as they 17 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:03,160 get. So Kimmy, welcome. Thank you for joining me on the Dash. Hello. Thank you for having 18 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,360 me. I'm so excited. Yeah, me too. Thank you so much for being here. This is so exciting 19 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,680 that I have so many people that are willing to come on here because I'm just experimenting 20 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,360 here and I'm feeling the love. Well, I'm like a little bit nervous, honestly, because this 21 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,280 is the first time I've done a collaboration of any kind and the first time I've been interviewed. 22 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,960 So I'm like, oh my gosh. Oh, you're going to do great. The more I listen to your podcasts 23 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:33,280 though, I'll tell you something. I see that we have so much more in common and you right 24 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,600 now live a little bit further south than I do. My listeners know that I'm from Canada 25 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,520 originally and I live in Georgia, but you're a little bit further south than me and I have 26 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:48,040 to tell you a story because I really love the ocean, but I'm terrified to get in it 27 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:53,040 because Lake Huron was my ocean when I was growing up and they don't have jaws there. 28 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:59,920 Oh, right. And the same way I have had nightmares of sharks since I was a child. Like I will 29 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:04,240 literally, I will literally dream. I'm not always being attacked by a shark, but I'll 30 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,960 just have a shark dream like once a month still in my adult life. Wow. When I go out 31 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:16,160 in the ocean, I love the golf here in Pensacola, but I'll like go to my waist and if I go any 32 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:21,600 further out or if I spend any length of time, I can't relax because then I have to run out, 33 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,480 run back to the beach and be in the sand because it's not my home. It's their home. That is 34 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:32,640 so true. And I respect that. Last summer I was in your town in Pensacola and my husband 35 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:38,120 is a water baby. He loves going out in the ocean. Me, I don't go past my ankles or calves 36 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:43,920 because Lake Huron has no sharks that I know of, but I was watching him. We're having a 37 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:49,920 conversation probably 20 feet apart because I will not get out there. And I saw a wave 38 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:55,800 starting to form coming at him. There was a huge shadow in that wave. And of course I'm 39 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,640 having a panic attack. I turn and run back to shore. I turn around and look and that 40 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,240 wave is crashing on him. Do you know what that shadow was? What? The sun. Oh, it was 41 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:12,840 the sun. I was going to say either a dolphin or seaweed, depending on the weather. It was 42 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:18,440 the sun. That was crazy. It's still, that is hilarious. I just can't do it. You can't 43 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:23,700 do it. Well, I'm the same way. I like, I stare into the waves too. I have some friends that 44 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:30,280 go surfing and I don't know how they do it. I just, I could not. Nope. No way. I get it. 45 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:36,080 Well, let's change gears here. Kimmy, I have a few Dash episodes under my belt and I'm 46 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,800 giving my guests an opportunity to showcase their own podcasts. So that's where you come 47 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,680 in. And I wanted to give our listeners a chance to check out a new true crime podcast. This 48 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,460 is one that I highly recommend. Kimmy is a great storyteller. So are you up to doing 49 00:04:52,460 --> 00:04:58,840 a mini episode with me on the Dash today? Cause you're on my territory. Yes ma'am. 50 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:05,440 Okay. I thought I'd start with some questions. Okay. Now I've listened to you, but maybe 51 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,360 we have some new listeners who've not heard your podcast, Always Talking Crime yet, but 52 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,600 what made you decide to start the podcast and why by yourself? You don't have a cohost. 53 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:22,640 I do not. Mainly I began podcasting because I've been such a true crime fan and binger 54 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,840 for quite a few years now. And it just seemed like kind of like one of those obsessive type 55 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:32,640 of things that I'm always talking about. I'm the person at dinner or at the party that 56 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,960 no matter what the conversation is, somehow I managed to bring in a serial killer or a 57 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,880 crime or something where it's so like people are looking at me like, really? Like that's 58 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,800 what she like is going to talk about right now. So I figured I may as well start a podcast 59 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:53,240 of my own. I did a little bit of research. I don't edit. I just, however I recorded is 60 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,200 how I record it. And I can do that because I'm the only person. Another reason that I 61 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:04,040 decided to just be a single host podcast is because I'm so busy. So many people are busy, 62 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,960 but my schedule is so crazy and I didn't want to have to rely on what somebody else's schedule 63 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:15,600 is as well. So that was a big reason. My boyfriend, like I was telling you before we started recording, 64 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:21,800 my boyfriend keeps begging to be on an episode. So maybe one day, but yeah, that's kind of 65 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,480 like scary. It would make me have to edit so much. And I like not having to do a lot 66 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,900 of that. Yes. What you hear is what you get with me. I just, you know, you heard me, I'm 67 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:38,880 swearing, I drop F bombs, I say whatever I'm thinking. And that's what I love about it 68 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,400 is that, I mean, even without editing, it's a great storyline and I just feel like I'm 69 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,880 there in the room with you. So you do a really good job. Thank you so much. You're welcome. 70 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,280 How do you choose the storylines that you tell? Oh my gosh, girl, I wish I had a rhyme 71 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:58,680 or reason, but I don't. Like I'll be doing notes for one and researching one case. And 72 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,440 then all of a sudden I'll hear about something else and I'll switch gears. So it's pretty 73 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:07,100 much just what I feel like talking about, but I normally have notes. I'm working on 74 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:11,560 like maybe five or six cases at a time. And it's just kind of like whichever one I finished 75 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:17,880 first, I finished the one that is just speaking to me more at the time. Wow. That's a great 76 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:24,480 concept. I mean, I could probably do more if I could just focus on one, but my ADHD 77 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:30,720 is all over the place. I've heard other podcasts where I had just finished telling a story 78 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,560 about something and then all of a sudden I'm listening to another podcast and they're talking 79 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,440 about not the story that I was telling, but somebody that was associated with the story. 80 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,640 I was like, Oh my God, you can't, I just did that one. So it's kind of neat to connect 81 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:52,160 those dots, but do you find yourself developing a certain way in how you communicate? Do you 82 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:58,280 have a specific niche as far as your storylines? Are you still getting there? I'm still getting 83 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:03,480 there. If you are a new listener, do not start with number one, not that number one is bad, 84 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:09,080 but it's the first episode I ever did. So whenever I'm like searching for a new podcast, 85 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,560 I always like to listen to a couple of their newest episodes. And then I go back to the 86 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,880 beginning and I can usually tell a huge difference, but you know, it's really developing honestly. 87 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,240 And I try to focus on the victims as much as I possibly can because there's so much 88 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:29,960 sensationalism out there with serial killers and people putting serial killers on merch 89 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:36,060 and it's just so, I don't, I don't want to be that podcasters. Oh yes. I always keep 90 00:08:36,060 --> 00:08:41,280 in mind that somebody from the victims family is probably listening or could potentially 91 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,600 be listening. Yeah. If I was a family member of a person that was murdered, I'm not so 92 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,500 certain I would seek it out, but maybe some people do. So I always try to be as respectful 93 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:56,760 as possible because you know, that's somebody's family member. And sometimes, sometimes even 94 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,720 the killer's families of course are still victims as well. So sometimes, I mean, it's 95 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,680 just, it's a weird line, you know, because there's victims from both sides. So I try 96 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:12,960 to be as respectful as I possibly can. Yes. But I still drop that bombs. And that's okay 97 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,360 because they're not directed towards the family members. They're directed towards the psychology 98 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:23,200 behind all that, I guess. Absolutely. So what keeps you motivated to keep putting out your 99 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,400 episodes? Well, I love it. It's just such a fun hobby. I agree. It is. Sometimes, you 100 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,360 know, I mean, I was really proud of myself for the longest time because I started just 101 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,920 last February, and I was never ever late on an episode. And then all of a sudden, the 102 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,960 holidays hit me and all the construction going on on my front porch, and I didn't have any 103 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,640 control over it. And I just had to be like, Okay, Kimmy, just do what you can do. And 104 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,240 like, don't try to worry about it. Oh, yes. But yeah, it did at first bother me. It stressed 105 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:56,480 me out a lot because I just really prided myself on always dropping my episodes, you 106 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,560 know, same time, same day every week, consistently. Yeah. And it kind of went downhill the last 107 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:05,880 couple of months. But hey, I still love it. And I'm still going to continue to do it. 108 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,320 Just have to be flexible a little bit. I'm learning. Yeah. And I see a lot of people 109 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,720 out there around the holidays. Hey, we're taking a week off me personally, I did take 110 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:20,800 a week off because I too started in February. And I thought my finale was going to be a 111 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:26,120 two parter, but it did not turn out to be that way. And so I said, You know what, why 112 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,920 not take a week off in between sometimes when you're doing this? Yes, I have a full time 113 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:37,440 job. I think you have a full time job. And it is a hobby. Yes. But we have listeners. 114 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,800 I know you're loyal. I appreciate that. But we're going to drop as consistently as possible. 115 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,520 But that's not always the case. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So I have a question for you real quick, 116 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,440 because you talked about two partners. Yeah. Do you notice that your listenership is less 117 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:58,400 on part two than it is on part one? Yes. Why? I want listeners to tell us why don't they 118 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:05,880 want to hear the ending? That is a great question. So listeners, DM us, email us, let us know. 119 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,920 And that's a great question because I did end up doing a three parter and I took it 120 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:16,000 from three different perspectives. And I'm going to say more people listen to the third 121 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,400 part than even the first or the second. But you're right. There was a second parter that 122 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,740 I had done a while back too. And I don't know why that is. Maybe they haven't reached us 123 00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:32,080 back in the rotation because they have other podcasts they're listening to. Maybe. So which 124 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:38,640 is your favorite podcast episode that you've done? Do you have one? Oh gosh. Well, I think 125 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:45,600 it's so hard. I think that I would have to say Israel Keys. Okay. That man haunts me 126 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:51,640 very, very much. And I could not get him out of my head after all the research. I was researching 127 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,320 him for about three months before I did the episode before I did my recordings. And oh 128 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:02,400 my gosh, he haunted me for so long. He still haunts me literally. I think of him just randomly. 129 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,240 I'll be at my house and I'm like, it freaks me out that he just did everything randomly. 130 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,000 You could just be a random person in a random house. You know, you don't have to be any 131 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,160 type female, male age, whatever. It was just totally random. And that freaked me the hell 132 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:22,040 out. And it freaked me out that he spent a lot of time in like New Orleans, which is 133 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:28,280 only like two and a half fish hours away from me. Wow. So just creepy things. That's my 134 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,400 favorite. But then also anytime there's something like stalking or domestic violence, because 135 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,560 I've been a victim of both like Bianca Devons. That's another not I don't want to say you 136 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:43,360 know, it's a favorite podcast episode because this young girl died. But just things like 137 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,760 that that I can bring to light because if we bring these stories to people, maybe some 138 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,880 other you know, women or people that are in domestic abuse situations, sometimes it's 139 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:59,440 men as well, they can hear the podcast episode and kind of think of things that they can 140 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:05,520 do to shift and maybe avoid being in that situation. So it's an awareness or even educational. 141 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:10,920 Yes, absolutely. I completely agree with that. I'm going to throw it just something at you 142 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:17,320 that was not in the questionnaire that you may have prepared for. Oh, no. What was the 143 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,880 last thing you googled? The last thing I googled? Oh, the effects of antifreeze poisoning because 144 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:30,240 I'm right now getting ready to record the Stacey castor episode. Oh, I added some notes, 145 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,640 I had everything and then at like four in the morning, I googled it, I woke up and I 146 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,000 couldn't fall back asleep. And I was like, Hey, I want to put like really what happens 147 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,560 to the body how it shuts down instead of just talking about antifreeze poisonings. Right. 148 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:49,000 So that's the last thing I googled. So if somebody were to get my phone and do a search 149 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:54,780 on my search history, they'd be like what? It's called Duck Duck Go. Make sure you're 150 00:13:54,780 --> 00:14:02,800 using that browser. Exactly. When your new episodes drop, where can we find you online? 151 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,380 Well, you can find me on all the platforms by the time everybody listens. I'll be dropping 152 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:13,400 on Tuesdays, I drop one time weekly, and I'm just starting my Patreon. I'm going to do 153 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,360 the buy me a coffee, I believe I heard you talk about that. So I researched it. Yeah, 154 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:23,480 we do that. So I don't want to do anything with Patreon, but I still want to do bonus 155 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,640 content. By the time y'all are listening to this, I'll be dropping an episode every month 156 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,800 the last day of the month on buy me a coffee if you want to be a member. Otherwise, you 157 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,160 can just support me there however you'd like if you'd like to. Sure. And I'm on every 158 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:43,680 every platform that I know of I think. Okay, and you're on Instagram. I see you there. 159 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,600 Yes, yes. It's always talking crime podcast. I'm on Instagram a lot. Yeah, and I just started 160 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,760 tik tok. So if you're not doing that one, believe it or not, I've gained some listeners 161 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,240 that way. So as long as you can expand your reach there. Oh, I need to. I just started 162 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,560 using it recently. And I'm just like overwhelmed with the amount of people that are starting 163 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:10,520 to follow. So push me girl push me I have an account but I I always forget to use it. 164 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:16,840 So Kimmy, are you ready to dash? I am. Go. Let's go. Now, I first want to start off with 165 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,800 an observation. I feel like there are a lot of people who are either a cat person or a 166 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:27,280 dog person. And I've listened to you enough. I know what kind of person you are. But if 167 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,880 you were to tell our audience if you're a cat person or a dog person, what would that 168 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:38,240 be? Oh my gosh, initially dog person, but I'm becoming a black cat mom. I have so many 169 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,780 dang cats here. It's crazy. But I'm a dog. I am a dog person. I am too. And if you guys 170 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:48,240 have listened to me, you know, Dennis likes to chime in occasionally. That's my big bear 171 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,720 knees Mountain Dog border Collie border knees mixed dog. He's just the sweetest in the world. 172 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,800 I do love him. And I love your cats too. I told you if I live closer, I'd probably bring 173 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:04,080 one home. John wouldn't be happy about it. But or to give you to they do need a partner, 174 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:10,240 don't they? Yeah, they're they're super sweet. And they get bonded after a while. Oh, yeah. 175 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:16,480 Hopefully I can find them home soon. Yeah. Well, I'm asking you this because approximately 176 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:24,120 68% of Americans own pets and that's 85 million people, which opens the door to a huge opportunity 177 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:31,080 for unsolved crimes, believe it or not to be solved by pet DNA. How about that? Isn't 178 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,680 that cool? Yeah, that's super cool. Yeah. So that's what we're going to be talking about 179 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,360 today. All right. So I will tell you ahead of time, I'm going to at least let you know 180 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:48,420 that the cat's the hero here. Oh, all right. So today's story is that of Lori Ocker, who 181 00:16:48,420 --> 00:16:56,480 at the age of 19 disappeared from Northumberland County, Pennsylvania on May 24 1989. Lori 182 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:02,260 had been separated from her husband Robert for about 18 months and was now living with 183 00:17:02,260 --> 00:17:08,600 her parents, her son and her two cats. Robert moved in with his parents and maintained visitation 184 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:14,840 rights. Usually that's how it goes, right? Yeah. Well, Lori was a loyal and reliable 185 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:20,400 employee at the local pet shop. So when she did not show up to work one day, everybody 186 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:26,160 seemed to get worried, including her boss. Lori's car was discovered parked at the Susquehanna 187 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:32,920 Valley Mall, which was where the pet shop is located. Okay. Naturally Lori's husband 188 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:38,560 Robert became the number one suspect because we know it's usually the person that's closest 189 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:44,780 to you, right? Yep. From the get go, Robert had a few things stacking up against him. 190 00:17:44,780 --> 00:17:49,560 The police weren't really looking anywhere else. Number one, he and Lori were separated 191 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:55,160 and they were having a custody battle over their son. And then secondly, Robert had recently 192 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:02,800 taken out a life insurance policy on Lori, his estranged wife by now, and on March 16th, 193 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:09,840 1989, approximately six months after he and Lori separated and two months prior to her 194 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,120 disappearance, he had that policy in place. So he got that life insurance policy after 195 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:21,280 they were apart. Yes. Okay. So here's the deal. I know that you do insurance. I do. 196 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,920 Do you want to talk about that or no? Yeah, yeah, I can. I've been a licensed life insurance 197 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:33,280 agent here in Pensacola, well in Florida, since 2013. And I don't really do it a lot. 198 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:38,200 It kind of falls into my lap if somebody wants to get some insurance. But so this guy does 199 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:44,280 have insurable interest because they are still married. Yes. Okay. So he is able legally 200 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:51,000 to get a policy on his wife, but it's super suspect because they're estranged and getting 201 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,240 divorced. So right away that throws up so many red flags. So that would be probably 202 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,960 one of the things that they would be looking at. Why didn't you get this while you were 203 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:08,080 still living in the same house? Exactly. And it might be where if he got a policy for himself 204 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,940 and had his soon to be ex-wife as the beneficiary of his policy, that would make sense as far 205 00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:19,680 as taking care of their son if something were to happen to them. That would make sense. 206 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:25,920 Okay. But if it's only one sided, then it seems very, very suspicious. Sure. And I'm 207 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:31,520 sure she didn't even have any knowledge whatsoever. Nope, probably not. I'm guessing not. Well, 208 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:37,160 since Lori's car was discovered at the mall where she worked, police began an investigation 209 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,720 of surveillance videos from the surrounding areas of the mall. They discovered that a 210 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:48,680 nearby ATM camera had a direct view to where Lori had parked her car, which was good and 211 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:54,200 which was bad. Because if you remember back in the eighties, or I don't even know if you 212 00:19:54,200 --> 00:20:02,120 do. I sure do. I miss those days. I kind of do too. I mean, let's go back to the simple 213 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:08,240 life. But what do we know about that era? Nothing was digital yet. No. They used VHS 214 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:14,520 tapes, not digital recordings. For any of our listeners who ever picked up a popular 215 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,920 VHS tape back in the day at the video store. I don't know if this has happened to you, 216 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,880 Kimmy, but I know I've picked up a very popular tape where thousands of people have watched 217 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,080 it before me, or at least it's been run thousands of times. So the quality actually gets worse 218 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,400 the more you watch it. Right, right. And then sometimes people don't rewind it. That is 219 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,120 right. And we got charged for that, by the way. Oh yeah. You didn't rewind your video. 220 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:46,840 All right. So the quality does deteriorate and authorities turned to a recording company, 221 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,060 Eastman Kodak. Not even sure they're still in business, but they sure were popular back 222 00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:57,340 in the eighties. They turned to Eastman Kodak to see if they could get any more information 223 00:20:57,340 --> 00:21:05,120 from that video and what was on the ATM footage. Eastman Kodak was not able to help, but they 224 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:11,920 did direct authorities to NASA. Wow. Which I thought was really cool. That is super cool. 225 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:18,880 It is because there was a rocket scientist who specialized in enhancing spy surveillance 226 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:26,840 at the time. He was able to zoom in on that video in a certain way where he was able to 227 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,160 pick up on the vehicle in the very background of that ATM surveillance. Wow. That was really 228 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,840 pretty cool. Yeah. He was the same scientist who was able to zoom in on the space shuttle 229 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:44,360 explosion from the 1980s and determined exactly what happened during that disaster. And that's 230 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:50,440 how they knew that O-ring had exploded. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. The scientist was also able 231 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:59,960 to discover that Lori had gotten into a 1982 to a 1985 model Chevy celebrity, which happened 232 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:06,120 to be the same model that her father-in-law had loaned her estranged husband, Robert. 233 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:11,080 So nothing suspicious there, right? Robert's just passing through the parking lot. No, 234 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:19,120 nothing. Nothing to see here. The camera footage captured Robert Ocker pulling up alongside 235 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:24,480 of Lori as she tried to walk from her car to her job inside the mall. And you could 236 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,360 see her leaning over to talk to somebody from the passenger side. Well, according to the 237 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:35,740 video, the passenger side door was open, but in the next frame, the car had torn away and 238 00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:41,600 Lori was nowhere in sight. So back in the day, there was like a 10 second delay when 239 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,920 the video would capture movement or anything. It would just, you know, every 10 seconds, 240 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,920 click, click, click one minute she's there. The next minute she is not even in sight. 241 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,640 If you go to the link in my show notes and take a quick look at the forensic files video 242 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:02,120 that I provided, it shows everything. Oh, okay. So yeah, do that in your spare time. 243 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:09,040 Definitely. The car that Robert had been driving had recently been traded in at a local car 244 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,600 dealership and police were able to track it down to the new owner pretty quickly. And 245 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:21,120 of course, once they confiscated the car authorities performed DNA analysis and discovered cat 246 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:26,440 hairs inside the vehicle that belonged to one of the two cats that I had mentioned that 247 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,520 Lori had when she went to go move in with her parents. Obviously they're going to start 248 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:39,200 analyzing that hair. Yeah. But here's the clincher back on May 27th of 1989, Robert's 249 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,720 father observed him vacuuming out the car and scrubbing the trunk of the car. He had 250 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,240 just loaned his son. There's nothing wrong with that, right? They're about to trade that 251 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,100 vehicle in. Okay. Let me just jump ahead for just a moment because I did want to let you 252 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:59,280 know that two and a half weeks after Lori disappeared, her body was discovered by a 253 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:05,720 young woman out for a jog. Oh my gosh. I know. And she was positively identified through 254 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:11,720 dental records. So as police began to investigate Robert a little bit more here, they didn't 255 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:17,480 have enough evidence to arrest him for her murder. Although I had mentioned that he was 256 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,720 pretty suspect. Now I'm going to move on to the DNA evidence because this is where that 257 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:28,800 comes in. Robert knew that his parents were actively looking to trade their vehicle into 258 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,120 the local car dealership that I had mentioned. And he took full advantage of this because 259 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:39,000 he knew the car was not going to be around for very much longer. Right. This is where 260 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:45,240 experts believe that he used his parents' vehicle deliberately to abduct Lori instead 261 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,480 of using his own vehicle. And I suppose that makes sense from a criminal's perspective. 262 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:56,580 It does. After the late 1980s model Chevy celebrity car was sold to the dealership and 263 00:24:56,580 --> 00:25:02,120 sent off to auction, it was purchased by a state trooper who bought the car for his daughter. 264 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:08,600 The chances of state supervisor. I love that. Yeah. And guess what? She wasn't even driving 265 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:14,680 age yet. So the state trooper had the car in his possession, but it was parked because 266 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,480 she didn't know how to drive yet. And it was sitting in the garage for quite a while. So 267 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,000 when police actually located the vehicle, they were able to pretty much perform an analysis 268 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,320 without too much interference. Yeah. I was just thinking that because that teenage girl 269 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:35,320 wasn't driving it around with all her friends and all her stuff in there. Yeah. Yeah. Great. 270 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:41,480 How cool. Yep. And so when the car was taken in for analysis, police conducted forensic 271 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:47,320 science on the front passenger door and the upper door jam, plus the door seal. Because 272 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:53,800 remember when I had mentioned the ATM footage captured all of that, they saw Lori leaning 273 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,000 in to the passenger side door so they were able to do that analysis. And they also went 274 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,920 through the trunk and discovered those tiny strands of hair. Lab experts examined the hair 275 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:12,040 and determined that it was not from a human being. Ongoing analysis included hundreds of hair types. 276 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:18,840 What they determined Kimmy was that the hair found inside the trunk belonged to a cat and not just 277 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:26,120 any cat. It was microscopically matched to one of the cats that indeed belonged to Lori and her son. 278 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:32,680 Oh, that's so great. Isn't that amazing? Yes. You know, this is back in the 80s and we didn't have 279 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:40,120 a ton of DNA. This was microscopically compared and they came up with a match. So I love talking 280 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:46,200 about these cases. If you listen to even a lot of the dash episodes, we talk a lot about familial 281 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:53,880 DNA and it doesn't always have to be from human beings. It can be from animals. I've seen other 282 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,120 stories and I was trying to decide which one am I going to do because I know you have animals and 283 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:05,480 that's why I went with this one. I love that. Do you know that they also can do DNA on trees? No, 284 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:11,880 I did not know that. Yeah, you know, with the pollen or if they grow a certain type of nut or 285 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,160 whatever it is, they can actually match stuff that way too. That is phenomenal. Oh my gosh, 286 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:23,240 that's fantastic. Going back to the ATM footage of Lori getting into that vehicle and cat DNA 287 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:29,240 found once it was located, police had enough evidence to arrest her husband Robert. He was 288 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:37,240 found guilty of kidnapping plus Lori's murder and sentenced to death. Oh no. However, on July 31st, 289 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:44,600 1996, Robert appealed this case and the death sentence was vacated. He is currently serving 290 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:51,240 life in prison at the State Correctional Institute in Collegeville, Pennsylvania. Okay, well, he's 291 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,840 never getting out. No, he is definitely not getting out. So there's no chance of parole. Not that I 292 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:03,320 could find. Okay, that's great. All right, that's good. Yeah. So that's the story of Lori Ocher and 293 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:09,560 I do love it because authorities can analyze DNA in so many different ways like I had just mentioned 294 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:15,960 and there you have it, Kimmy. We've met the finish line. I love that. It's so great too because there's 295 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,600 so many times that I get to work and I have like cat hair or dog hair on me and I'm like trying to 296 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,760 get it off and I'm like, maybe I don't want it all off. Maybe I need some of it on me. 297 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,120 In case somebody abducts me and murders me, they can catch them faster. 298 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:39,080 I hope that never happens, Kimmy. I like listening to your episodes. I hope not too. Well, you have 299 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:45,720 my permission to do a podcast episode about it one day if that were to happen. Oh, thank you so much. 300 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:51,160 I appreciate that, but we're not even going to go there. Oh, goodness. Well, there you have it. 301 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:57,320 We have dashed to the finish line. Kimmy, you have been amazing and I can't wait to hear your 302 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,720 next episode. You can always find Kimmy, always talking crime wherever you get your podcasts. 303 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,360 While you're here though, click on the links in our show notes to find out more about Dying to 304 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,400 Be Found. There you have it. Talk to you next time. Thanks for listening to Dying to Be Found, 305 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:19,560 true crime podcast and our dash mini series. Every week, we'll bring you a variety of true 306 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:25,560 crime episodes, a little dash of hope, plus special bonus episodes with some really cool guests. 307 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,840 Before we go, we'd love for you to share this podcast with your friends and give us a five star 308 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:38,040 review. Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to Be Found, 309 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:43,960 or visit our website at Dying to Be Found dot com spelled just like you see in our logo. 310 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,440 Better yet, click on our Linktree account found in the show notes where you'll find 311 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:54,360 all the information in one place. Be sure to dash in every Wednesday for our mini episodes, 312 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,520 plus every Thursday when I get together with some of my family members. 313 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:09,000 Thanks again, everyone, and we'll talk to you soon.