Welcome to In the Seams, a podcast by Broken and Mended.
And now your host, David Heflin.
I want to welcome you back to In the Seams.
I'm excited today to share an interview with you that I had with Mandy Dawson Farmer.
And Dawson is her maiden name, but she uses that because there's another Mandy Farmer
out there that's an author.
But Mandy has some unique things that she's been working on that relate to helping people
with chronic illness and chronic pain.
And you'll hear her share some of her story, which in itself is a testimony to the faithfulness
of God through her suffering and hardship that she's been through and how God has then
used that and turned it around to be a blessing to others, even though she's still, as we
all are with chronic illness, still dealing with the implications of chronic disease.
But I think what is unique about what Mandy has been doing is the type of book that she
has made available that she has published, which helps parents, particularly moms, I
think it would apply to fathers too, that they can speak to their children through this
children's book that she has written about what they are struggling with in terms of
their chronic illness.
The book focuses on a mother who has fibromyalgia, but these are characters in the book.
It doesn't mean that it can only apply to situations of fibromyalgia.
And she has in fact had feedback from other people, including people with cancer, that
this has been a very helpful resource in reading it through with their small children and helping
to affirm also the mother or the father in the struggles they're going through to
realize that just because they have chronic illness, things may be different, but they're
still great, they're still good parents, but it's mainly of course to help communicate
with the children what is happening in their lives on a level that makes sense to them.
And that's a needed resource.
When I went through this with my kids, when my kids were small, my kids are mostly grown
now.
I still have one in high school, two in college.
But when they were young, I had a hard time explaining what was going on with me.
And they didn't need to know the ins and outs of the disease itself.
I needed help to communicate with them what I was going through, why I wasn't as available
as I wanted to be, and maybe how we could help each other in that.
And so this is a great resource.
I hope that you'll get it.
You'll find it linked in the show notes.
She's also working on another book that's not yet available that is a devotional book.
You'll hear us talk about that.
It's also unique because it is structured around the idea of different movements and
music.She uses a dissonance to harmony type of approach.
And she'll talk some about some other musical terms that I better not try to repeat right
now because I don't know music on that level.
But I know we all love music.
And she uses that as a way to talk to us about our suffering in our chronic illness and as
a way of pointing us to scriptures as well, the Psalms, and then some old hymns that she
points us to in that work.
And that will be out, she's hoping, I think she was saying maybe next year sometime, maybe
end of the year.
I can't remember exactly what she said, but you'll hear that as well.
But as always, I just want to thank you for listening to In the Seams.
We're trying to bring our offerings a little bit more regularly.
If you've not subscribed, we hope that you do.
And also would ask that you like and rate and share our podcast.
We really need to get this out to more people.
We believe the offerings that we have given to people, the different interviews that we
have done will be helpful and really span the gamut of chronic illness and the different
topics and so forth that people struggle with that as it relates to Christian faith and
the hope that we have in Jesus.
And so we're glad that you're here and hope that you will enjoy this interview with Mandy
Farmer.
Well I'm here with Mandy Dawson Farmer and that's how you can find her online and it's
her author name.
And I'll just be calling her Mandy for the episode.
But Mandy, I want to welcome you to In the Seams and thank you for joining us today.
Oh, thank you for having me.
I'm very excited about talking to you.
We're excited, I'm excited about getting to talk to you also.
You know, you reached out and shared a little bit about some of the unique offerings that
you have that can be a blessing to those who need to be able to communicate, especially
with their kids about chronic illness and chronic pain and what they're going through.
And we'll get to that.
I think it might be helpful for people to have a little bit of a background on your
story, your journey.
I know in your email you mentioned you've been struggling with chronic pain for about
13 years.
I think, by the way, I have this exact same amount of time for me.
I spent 13 years in 2011 that my struggles began, so I can relate to that time frame,
that time period.
But tell us a little bit about your journey with chronic pain and maybe also kind of bring
us up to where you are today with it.
Okay.
You know, in retrospect, I have struggled with pain most of my life.
I was one of those that had what they called growing pains when you're in puberty, and
they're finding that that is one of the signs of fibromyalgia.
So I had a lot of things that in my mind, that was just how life was.
Everybody had those pains.
And I did well.
I was having a great life.
I say I was living the dream because I was doing what I wanted to do.
I was married to a minister.
I had four children.
I was in children's ministry, which children is one of my passions.
And I was doing exactly what I wanted to do.
And until I went on a cruise and I got off that cruise and I never got my land legs back.
I felt like I was bouncing around in a boat all the time and they couldn't figure anything
out.
They said, no, it's not these typical things that a person can have.
And about six months into that one day, I went to lay down.
It was a Sunday afternoon.
I was just going to rest before the evening service and my back went into convulsions
and I couldn't get back up.
I couldn't finish laying back down.
And for the next month, I could only lay flat on my back if I moved even the slightest bit.
These contractions would just overtake in my back.
And so of course, we went to doctors and I was put on a very high dosage of steroids
was the only way to control the pain.
So doctors after doctors until they could figure out what was wrong, you finally, I
was one of the lucky ones because in six months time, I had a diagnosis that doesn't usually
happen for people.
But they sent me right down to Mayo Clinic, which you have to wait.
That was the only thing is you have to wait about six months to get in and see them.
But when we went, they did all those tests and they decided you have fibromyalgia and
they gave me a medication that helped me manage that pain.
And I started, I had to slowly get off of the steroids.
But when I did that, then I started having swelling in my knees and I was having these
other issues.
And they did the x-rays and said, we don't know what's going on.
Your blood work is all over the place.
I'm sending you back to Mayo Clinic.
So we got back down there and he said, I think that you just have osteoarthritis, but we're
going to do the blood work again and see.
And sure enough, I had rheumatoid arthritis.
And that really is my key diagnosis.
But the fibro is still probably the one that's more aware of because they got the rheumatoid
under control right away.
The steroids had been hiding the rheumatoid arthritis as far as the labs were going.
They said, oh no, you don't have any inflammation.
But when I started coming off of them, then the inflammation came back.
So we learned, I went down to Mayo for a pain management class that lasted about a week.
And I learned how to manage my life.
My husband was a minister and I had to give up my children's ministry.
But we were still trying to do that for about five years we were doing that.
He was staying at home with me and working from home, having an office at home instead
of at church.
But it was really wearing on him and we finally ended up retiring.
And so then we moved away and I started blogging.
That's where I am.
I basically just have to make sure that I don't overdo.
I'm one of those go getter people.
So my husband has to kind of like rein me in sometimes because I want to do so much
and he says, you know, you can't do that.
You'll regret that.
He always lets me make the decision.
He says, but you'll probably regret that if you do all of that.
So that was the learning curve for me was learning to give up some of the things that
I love to do like baking and running around doing all kinds of things.
I'm kind of a social light, you know, and but I have learned to do that pretty well
so that I don't have too many flare ups.
That's kind of where I'm at.
OK, well, thank you for sharing that your story with us.
And I mean, I think a lot of people will be able to relate to that about having to give
up things that they love.
It's one of those other issues of chronic illness that people don't even think about
unless they are indeed going through, you know, chronic illness.
Right.
I mean, all the different ways it impacts you, whether it be, you know, your mental
health or your finances or giving up stuff that you love, which then also impacts the
way that you feel about everything.
You know, I'm going to ask you a question, and it's not something I would probably ask
people if they were on their first year or two of this journey, because I know for me,
it took me a while to be able to answer this in any meaningful way.
But I like to ask people that's been dealing with this for a while, if they've learned
anything about God, they've learned anything about their journey and their relationship
with God through this.
What has how has it impacted your walk with God on this journey?
That is so amazing because God has really taught me so much.
And for me, he has many times in advance kind of kind of given me warning that when I look
back, I say, oh, you were preparing me for what was coming.
You know, after the cruise, my son told me one day, he says, hey, you need to listen
to this new song.
And it was Laura story's blessings.
And I've heard a lot of people say that that story, that song has meant so much to them.
And it does to me still is.
Yes, it really makes you think, you know, and kind of put everything into perspective.
And then that summer I did a Bible study.
It was an online Bible study of Psalm 119, which I had always kind of stayed away from.
It's one hundred and seventy six verses, you know, and it's kind of like, oh, you can't
read it.
You can't read it in one sitting and just kind of a scary thought to read it, even though
it's done in sections.
It's still just I had never done it.
And that just drew me so much into the awareness of wanting and loving God's word.
Now I had I had been a Christian since I was a child and I loved the Lord.
I loved serving him.
But, you know, I don't I don't feel like I really had a good, strong friendship with
the Lord until that point.
And then when the chronic pain hit that first month of being still, what I did most of the
time was read the Bible and learn just so much that way.
Just I, you know, in rather a quick amount of time, I read through the Bible in three
different versions.
And I was just kind of like, oh, well, yeah, and just really kind of eye opening thing
and amazing to me how you can know a verse all your life.
But then all of a sudden you're in a circumstance and that verse has has new meaning and and
then just having that daily conversation with him and and you know, through each little
thing that would come up that he would just, you know, talk to me and help me examine my
life and think about, OK, well, what you know, what what's going on?
Why am I in pain?
Is he trying to get my attention or is he is there lessons to learn?
And it was all of these all of the above, I would say, yeah, because he did draw me
closer to him.
And then I went through a time and I'm like, OK, Lord, look, I've got this under control
so you can take this pain away from me now.
And he was like, well, let's talk about that.
Do you really think that you would stay close to me if I took the pain away?
You know, kind of that thing like that.
The Apostle Paul had is like I asked three times, would you take it away?
And he said no.
And we had that conversation and I settled that I was going to have this chronic pain
and it was what would keep me close to him.
So in a nutshell, I'd say that's probably the things I've learned.
I have a book coming that's going to really delve into all the things that OK, he taught
me.
Yeah.
And we'll talk about that book in just a moment.
I just want to say, I think for a lot of us, again, find that very relatable.
Sometimes chronic illness, chronic pain forces us to slow down, forces us to maybe not force
us, but it creates opportunity to spend more time with God, you know, to be able to spend
more time in scriptures because our life is not just about being busy anymore or being
productive.
Right.
Yeah.
So I appreciate that perspective.
And I'm glad you mentioned Psalm 119.
That would be a great passage for anyone just to spend some time with.
Yes, it's long, but you're not on a clock.
So spend as much time as it takes to get through it and really absorb it.
Yeah.
It's divided up in eight verse sections because it's an acrostic, I think, or something like
that.
Yeah, that's right.
For each letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
So you can do like eight verses at a time.
And yeah.
Oh, it's just so full of good.
It really is.
Yeah, it's funny.
Actually we went through it on a Wednesday night Bible class recently.
I didn't do my homework.
The homework was you're supposed to read it before coming to Bible class.
So in Bible class, we just kind of did the snapshot view 119.
But what you really need to do is doing what you're talking about.
Go through it eight verses at a time.
Maybe go through those eight verses multiple times in a day while you're praying.
Really internalize that.
And so that's, of course you can do that with any number of places in scripture, but I just
I kind of like that idea of going through Psalm 119.
That's a powerful activity to invest yourself in.
So you're an author, of course, and that's part of the reason why you're here on this
podcast.
We're going to talk to you in a moment about some of the works that you've done and what
you're going to be in, what you are working on or getting ready to publish.
I'm curious about your journey as an author.
Has that something that you were already before, you know, the struggle of chronic illness
came along?
And if not, I'm curious, how did God really put that on your heart to, to use that as
to be a blessing to others with chronic illness and pain?
Well, the funny part is, is that, you know, I would like to tell the story about when
I went to college and wrote my first composition and I got an F, you know, and it's like, okay.
And but I had an awesome teacher, professor.
And by the end of that, my last paper, he read in class and said, this is my most improved
student, but I still only ended up with a B. And I'm like, okay, we know you're not
going to be a writer, but God had other plans.
God had other plans there.
And in children's ministry, I was writing plays for the kids.
I would write plays that would fit the personalities of the children that I had.
And so at Christmas, especially, I wrote several plays for them that was just based on them,
you know?
And I had, so, so that was just something I did for my ministry, not really thinking
anything beyond that with that.
But then after we, we had to retire, I started to write about chronic pain.
And I wanted to write to those who, your friends, you know, like try to explain to people what's
going on in your life that they don't understand it, you know?
And so that's kind of where everything started.
And right off the bat, there was a challenge.
I was in this Christian bloggers group.
They had a challenge in October that said write for five minutes every day and just
publish it on your post.
Don't edit, don't do anything, just write for five minutes every day.
And they, you could either do their prompts, they gave you a prompt every day, or you could
just do your own thing.
And so I decided to write about my personal experience with chronic pain.
And it resonated with people.
People started saying, you need to publish this.
And it was kind of done devotionally.
It always seemed that everything would come back around to God, no matter, you know, even
if you tried, okay, don't put God in here.
No, he's just so much part of it that it just came out of me.
And so I kept that in the back of my mind that I really didn't take it seriously.
For about five years, I just was blogging.
But people would keep asking, when are you going to write that book?
When are you going to write that book?
And in 2020, I said, okay, this is the year I'm going to work towards getting that devotional
done.
And so I went to that was the covid year, of course.
So I got to go to a conference because it was online and I could do it at my own pace
because they recorded everything and learned so much.
And I met a gal there that was a homeschooler and she was she said, hey, you want to help
me out?
And I said, I have I'm writing a course to teach homeschool moms how to help their kids
write and encourage them to write by publishing their writing in books.
And what she would do is give them a set of pictures and they'd write a story around the
pictures.
She wanted me to be a beta tester.
So I said, I'll do that because that'll give me some knowledge about self publishing.
And and through that, I wrote a little book about milk cows.
I grew up on a dairy farm.
So that was something I knew about.
And you had to find a set of pictures.
And that's what I found a set of pictures of.
You know, with the chronic pain thing, I just I couldn't find the pictures I wanted.
And so I wrote this little book about milk cows and people loved it.
You know, and they're asking for more and there's more coming for that.
But but then I joined a children's critique group and started working on this soft toads
book.
And my the thing that I learned about the first conference was, OK, you have all these
devotions, but you can't just plop them into a book and and it sell.
I realized that I was going to have to kind of rework them and put them all in a theme
and lay them out the same and do all of that.
And so it's been a long process doing that.
But that's how I got started with actual publishing of books.
Well, I that's an interesting story, I think, in the sense that it really happened pretty
organically for you just in the course of your life.
And I mean, God can call us into things in many different ways.
But it seems like it was kind of a gradual.
But at the same time, he was affirming you every step of the way.
Right.
As you moved into that.
So I think that's that's a really cool story.
And you mentioned this book called Soft Hugs or Soft Hugs for Mommy.
And it's a book that helps parents talk to their children about their chronic health
struggles.
And as I understand it, it's focus in the book is on fibromyalgia, but it has application
to, you know, many any kind of disease or chronic pain that you have.
It could help you have that conversation.
I shared with you, Mandy, before we started, just that I found that to be a particular
struggle with my kids growing up.
I would have loved, especially when my kids were little, I would have loved to have had
a book like this one that could have helped me navigate that.
And if it was out there, I didn't know where it was.
And so I'm excited that this is now going to is now available for people that need to
be able to talk to the kids because this impacts our kids to in ways that maybe they can't
express.
Yeah.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about this book and and and what inspired it?
OK, well, it's it's loosely based on my experience.
Now, when I when chronic pain really hit me, I was my children, my youngest was 15.
So a little bit different story because they were teenagers and they were more involved
and you could sit down with them and talk to them about what was going on pretty easily
that I wrote this because I'm more children's minded, smaller children.
I wrote it from the perspective of probably a preschooler and she has a brother that's
a little bit older and she just shares about how great her family was.
And and then she starts comparing that we used to do this, but now mommy is sick and
and then about it.
It talks about several things that changed in the life of the family and that mommy had
to go to all these doctors and learn about in this case fibromyalgia, she calls it.
And I'll check and appropriate in it.
Yes, it is.
Yeah, my my formatter said, hey, everybody use that term like that or does it is that
something you came up with?
And I said, I just came up with that.
But it but it does resonate people like that.
So anyway, so it has right in the middle of it, the doctor explaining about different
symptoms that you can have with fibromyalgia and how it can be different for each person.
And then it goes on about how mommy learned to manage her pain and how there were some
days that were bad.
Some days mommy stayed in bed.
Some days mommy could sit on the couch and we would entertain her and how daddy had to
help more and the neighbors helped more.
And just that soft hugs is yes, people with my fibromyalgia, they cannot take a big squeeze,
but you can hug them in other ways.
I just kindnesses that you do.
And that's kind of the theme of the book there.
And then it just has a nice ending that mommy was great before, but she's still great.
You know, yeah, yeah, that's right.
You know, she she does.
That's a little message for the parent.
You know, it's like, don't don't get stuck on that.
You're no longer a great mom because you still you still can be.
And then just for fun, the the awareness ribbon is purple.
And so we have a little purple ribbons all through the book that are hidden that they
can look for all the purple ribbons.
And then it has the question section that I had a child psychologist help me develop
the right questions, you know, to talk to talk to your kids about.
So and I think I it really does not matter that if you don't have fibromyalgia, it helps
with almost any illness that you might have.
I mean, cancer.
I had a friend that just had a heart attack, had open heart surgery, and she said she used
it to talk to her grandkids about how you had to be careful around grandma now and how
she was.
She couldn't do all the things that she used to could do.
And so I think that it's something that can be helpful for a lot, a lot of people.
Sure.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
I want to say to you know, of course, we may have some fathers that are listening and even
though the character in the in this book is a mother, I think the same principles would
apply because fathers also get down on themselves sometimes about not being able to throw the
ball with their kids or what, you know, whatever it might be that that fathers want to do,
because I can remember going through that myself.
And I still even even though the book focuses on mommy, I had I still had kids at that age,
I could have used it for the same purpose.
So I want everyone to realize that if you got kids, and you need a little help communicating
with them about what you're going through and what that means for everyone in the family,
this is a great way to do it.
And it helps you be able to communicate with children on their level and a message of affirmation
for you as the parent as well.
So I will have links to that in our show notes where people can go and find that book and
I hope that they will.
And I want to ask, I know that you have another you've alluded to it in our conversation,
you have another manuscript available to be published.
I know it's a devotional book, but if you want to elaborate a little bit on that, I
think that would be helpful.
It would give us something to look forward to for what you have coming out and maybe
let us know if there's a if there's an actual time that you already know that it might be
coming out.
Well, I'm still working on I decided to go ahead and try to do it traditionally, but
I haven't found the right connection there.
But I really it's because this is the real passion.
This is the children's thing to me is a fluke.
Now God had his reasons.
But the children's books are just what has come out of this.
And I'm not sure that this devotional is the thing that I really, really, you know, want
to get in people's hands.
And what I've done is that music is another one of my passions and music is what gets
me through the day and that and my faith, of course.
And so I have done this devotional kind of in a musical theme each week of lessons or
devotions as a theme.
And I found a title.
It could be secular, could be classical, you know, from a title of a music piece of music
is the theme for the week.
So for instance, the first week talks about the surprises that you have in chronic illness
and that it's not just that one first surprise of your life change, but all through more
things show up.
There's always another thing that happens every time you turn around every whenever
you feel like, OK, I've got this, then something else happens.
And so the surprise symphony is where it starts.
And I take a little piece of my story and I connect it with a biblical person and how
OK, here's how we're the same.
That first week I talk about Joseph and I connect with him and his different times of
just when he's rising up, he's pushed back down.
Right.
And I use that as as the theme that when you get through that week that you see that God
is working through everything and that there is hope.
And so that's kind of how each chapter works.
There's six weeks of lessons.
And so I use music in another way is the title of the book is From Dissonance to Harmony.
And so and dissonance is a musical term which means it doesn't sound quite right.
It's not in harmony.
You know, it's.
And so I take that my dissonant moment and I connect it with a counterpart.
And that's another musical term which is when you have two things going on at the same time.
And then the harmony piece, which where you find harmony with where God shows you the
harmony in it, even though you're going through it.
And then I have assignments which is to read a particular song.
I had a pastor always tell me to read a song every day and it is such good advice and I
advise it.
But but this one I select a specific song that I assign you to read and also an old
hymn.
And I don't want you to necessarily just listen to the song.
I want you to look at the lyrics and kind of meditate on the lyrics of that hymn and
find what you can learn from that hymn.
Well it sounds like from my experience with that would be a fairly unique book.
I don't know that I've seen a book that was arranged that way.
And certainly both for me for people that understand and know music that will maybe
have a special meaning but I think all of us love music and can kind of relate to the
idea of dissonance and harmony.
We can certainly relate to the Psalms which were of course originally song and as well
as some of these old hymns that do have such great lyrics.
And so I appreciate that that's going to be available.
So we don't know when is that right?
No.
I hope that I'm not going to spend a lot of time looking for a traditional publisher.
If it doesn't happen then I'm fine with just going ahead.
And so hopefully by the end of next year this can come to fruition.
Well we'll be looking for it then and who knows may have you back on in the seams when
that comes out and we'll talk about that book a little bit more.
But certainly we'll want our listeners and other places where people connect with Broken
Amended to be aware of that and be looking to that.
So as a final question I wanted to ask about sometimes people have something already brewing
in their mind or actually working on something already.
Do you have any other resources or works that you're thinking about that will benefit those
that are struggling with chronic illness?
OK, well I have set up at MandyFarmer.com.
I out monthly sometimes a little more often if I just get inspired that I have tips and
resources for people going through chronic illness of any kind really.
I use the acronym soft hugs and so I give S's for scripture.
I give a scripture that might encourage them and the O is Oasis which here's a place that
might you might be able to find calm.
So it might be an app.
It might be a video of beautiful music and beautiful sceneries something like that.
Laughter is usually something funny because laughter is the best medicine and continuing
on like that.
So, I share podcasts there.
I share the U in hugs is usually my update on my writing and what is happening with my
books and what's going on with that.
So it's kind of a place to keep in touch with what I'm doing.
But at the same time I'm giving all of these little tips and places to get help.
And if you sign up there you can download some scripture cards on my original blog which
I do with a friend there.
It's called Mandy and Michelle dot com and that one I share more about my story and about
health issues now that I'm over 60.
I have other the aging stuff going on too.
So I share about osteoporosis.
I share about getting a mammogram all those different kinds of things.
And I share those with you.
And that's all on Mandy and Michelle dot com.
Michelle is a as a grandmother raising her grandson and homeschooling.
And so she writes about that.
She writes about all kinds of home things, recipes, how to do different things in the
home.
And that's my two blogs.
Okay.
Well, I actually while we were talking I went and subscribed.
So it's real easy.
And you know so Mandy Farmer dot com will link it of course in the show notes.
And so thank you for that.
And again I just appreciate to me how your resources and your approach to things or as
I would expect for anyone to be somewhat unique because everybody's different.
But really you put a lot of thought into these different ways of connecting with people
and not just one kind of just unilateral approach.
And so I really appreciate what you're doing.
And I think that will be certainly a blessing to others.
So, like I said it's real easy to subscribe.
I just did it just now and think others ought to do that as well.
And then there's those other blogs you talked about that you can check or not check but
they're there available as well.
So, you know this this this has been very good.
Mandy, we thank you so much for taking the time to be on In The Seams.
You know I've been very encouraged by what you're doing and how God is using you and
your talents as an author.
And we certainly want to continue to lift you up in prayer as God opens doors.
And whether that be with a traditional publisher whether that be you know just to publish it
yourself whatever it may be whatever God's will is the point is that it reaches more
people.
And so we're glad to be at least a tool in order to help people get to know about some
of these resources.
So again for our listeners I just want to say please check out the show notes.
You'll see links to the resources that we talked about.
You will also see some links to some different scriptures that we brought up during the conversation.
And I'll I'll just try to put anything relevant that came out of the conversation the show
notes so you don't have to remember it and go look it up later.
You can just click on that.
And we thank you so much for listening to in the seams.
I always like to close by reminding you that you can of course I don't know where you may
be listening to in the same whether it be on Spotify or Apple podcast or some other
place.
It's on our website and our RSS feed but also our website at brokenandmended.org.
So if you're not already on our website I recommend that you go look at broken and mended
dot org.
Please check out the different support groups that we have that are being offered and other
resources including this podcast or other podcasts that we've had recently and in years
past I think this is our third full year to be doing in the same podcast.
And also we have a blog there.
In fact we published one from Esther Smith yesterday that she wrote and she's also someone
who has written a 31 day devotional book on chronic illness.
And so I may relink that in our show notes too just because that's a that's also a great
resource.
We need more of these resources.
And so many of these different places different you know different types of needs.
There are a lot of resources for four I think for chronic illness.
Chronic pain is still a very underserved community and they're still very limited resources available.
There's there's beginning to be some more but I would say that it's we're still a long
ways to kind of catching up to where maybe some other types of support ministries are.
And so just glad for what you're offering there Mandy.
So again thank you for being with us and I want to thank our listeners for being with
us.
And one other thing I'll mention of course and I don't always do this.
Our producer Andres always wants me to do it.
Mention that if you are so moved you can financially partner with us and broken amended you'll
find a place for that on the website too.
You're never expected to.
I know that people with chronic illness and chronic pain have extra financial burden but
there may be some people that are in a position where they can and that helps us to reach
more and more people through resources like this including our materials that we're developing
for support groups and especially for us to be able to print those in places where they
can afford them like in East Africa particularly in Kenya some of the countries over there
where we have a lot of support groups.
So Mandy thank you again for being with us.
Oh it's been a pleasure.
I enjoyed getting to know you and talking about my journey and I'd love to hear from
anyone about their journey and connect with you and just God bless you.
Alright thank you Mandy and thank you for listening to In the Seams.