1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Welcome to In the Seams, a podcast by Broken and Mended with your host, David Heflin. 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:25,040 Okay, I want to welcome you back to In the Seams. And this will be our last podcast that 3 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,560 we record for this year. So I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, 4 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:35,840 and all that. End the Seams will be back in the new year, and hopefully we'll be a little bit more 5 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:41,920 consistent in recording. But I'm just kind of proud that we've been able to do this here twice 6 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:48,720 in the last month. And that would be a good goal, I think, for us going forward. I want to let you 7 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:56,160 know what we're going to be talking about today. I have Bethany Honaker on our podcast, and she 8 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,360 is already associated with Broken and Mended. In fact, you can find her on our website. There's 9 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:07,920 a short bio there about her and her work with Broken and Mended. Bethany spent part of her 10 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:16,400 childhood in Kenya, and so became a natural person, at least for me, to ask to come in and help me with 11 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,920 the work we're doing there. And Bethany was willing to do that. And so, Bethany, I want to just, 12 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:27,280 you know, welcome you to In the Seams. And just glad to have you here. 13 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:34,880 Thank you for having me. And we're going to be talking with Bethany about her own story and some 14 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:41,360 of the things that have been costly to her, particularly how her dreams and her life have 15 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:47,520 changed because of chronic illness. And this is part of a bigger project, you know, so the podcast 16 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,920 in itself is valuable, but it's also part of something else I'm working on, which I'm not 17 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,240 ready to go public with at this particular point. But these conversations are part of, 18 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,000 I'll tell you this much, acknowledging what we have lost to chronic illness, to be very real and 19 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,800 honest about that. Because I think sometimes, or maybe all the time, that's the only way that we 20 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:15,680 can move forward in our life. We still have a life to live, and we still have purpose in that life. 21 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,960 But a lot of times, we can't get to that if we're still hung up on not acknowledging what is taking 22 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:28,480 place in our stories. Bethany, before we get into that, I do want to ask a little bit, just because 23 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:35,680 you're actually closer to this situation than I am, how is the work in Kenya going with Broken 24 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:41,680 and Mended and the support groups there, kind of a ballpark of how many groups we have? And just kind 25 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:49,360 of give us a little update on your work in that regard. Yeah, so the work in Kenya is very exciting, 26 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:58,160 growing, I would say, exponentially. The Kenyan culture very openly welcomes the idea of support 27 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:05,440 and encouragement and literacy and togetherness. And so I think the resources that Broken and Mended 28 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,320 is providing to the different churches has really made a difference for them in encouraging their 29 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:18,960 members. When I first started, we had maybe about 30 or 40 groups on the ground. Currently, we are 30 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:24,960 closer to probably 100 groups with many on the wait list waiting for resources. And they are 31 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:32,000 texting me almost every day, asking me if I have an update, asking me what else they can do, and 32 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,640 sharing pictures of the work, which is just very exciting. Yeah, they are good about sending pictures 33 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:43,840 and I know that they're excited about what they're getting to do there. And, you know, I think it's 34 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,920 only going to grow more as we're working on a Swahili translation that may be available as early 35 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:56,800 as January. And so that's going to be another tool that we can put in their hands. And Lord willing, 36 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:04,400 and this is all in process, we may be going to Kenya later this summer or next summer, 37 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:11,360 I guess I should say, since it's not turned to the new year yet, and be able to get to meet some of 38 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,160 these people in person. And I just would think that would only continue to enhance the work, 39 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:24,080 not only numerically the growth, but the quality of relationship and the depth of meeting people 40 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,760 in their suffering. And so, yeah, thank you, Bethany, for your willingness to serve in that 41 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,800 capacity. It has been an amazing blessing, I know, to me, and to Broken and Mended as a whole. 42 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,200 I do want to get into your story a little bit, because that's why we're here. And I wondered 43 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:47,760 if you could tell us a little bit just about what your life was like before chronic illness, and 44 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:54,400 what your aspirations were, and maybe bring us up to the point in which that chronic illness 45 00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:01,920 entered into your life. Yeah, so I've had symptoms since I was a child. But when you're a child, 46 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,120 you don't know that what you're experiencing isn't normal. And so you don't think much about it, 47 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:13,040 right? You just continue to go about your day and enjoy being a child. I was raised as a missionary 48 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:21,440 kid, raised overseas. And as I entered into high school and college, my kind of dream for my life 49 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,560 was that I was going to go back overseas and was going to do missionary work. And so I went to a 50 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Christian college, I got a nursing degree, I married a preacher from the college. And we kind 51 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:40,560 of started down that pathway of, you know, what can we do to prepare ourselves for going overseas 52 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,760 and ministering to people. During that time, during those first couple of years, as we were 53 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:52,640 preparing, I had my first child. And in during the pregnancy, I actually had to quit work, 54 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:58,160 because that's when I really started to have a lot of my own symptoms that were more debilitating, 55 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:04,240 more fatigue, more pain, that sort of thing. And my first child was born with a congenital defect, 56 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:10,480 which kind of then stopped us to start, you know, relooking at everything in our life to say, 57 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,840 all right, what pathway does the Lord want us to go forward? And at that time, 58 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:21,280 there was a lot anticipated for her, a lot of future treatments and surgeries and things like 59 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:26,240 that, that really kind of made it to where we felt like we needed to stay in a country that 60 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:31,920 could provide that for her. We felt that our first priority was to our family that God has given us. 61 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:39,040 And so we, we kind of reshifted in that capacity. And my husband went back to school to get another 62 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,800 license and computer support, so that he could get another job to help support our family. 63 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:51,600 And I continued to work in nursing. But it's funny enough, over the years that I worked as a nurse, 64 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,720 as symptoms progressed, I had to keep shifting. So I started off working in a med search floor. 65 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:04,320 And that's when I started having just debilitating low back pain, and couldn't I couldn't live 66 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:12,320 patients anymore. And so I shifted to working in an ICU, had my second pregnancy. And during that, 67 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,640 again, symptoms progressed because hormones are a big kind of trigger for Ehlers Danlos. 68 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:24,320 And I couldn't work bedside anymore at that point. And so I shifted again after she was born to 69 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:32,320 working in a physician's office. And that suited really well. But then we had to move just for a 70 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,680 lot of different reasons to another state to be with family. And at that time, I shifted into a 71 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:43,840 role as a nurse educator, and eventually as a transplant coordinator. So kind of multiple shifts 72 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,040 throughout the first several years of our marriage and the early years of our kids life. 73 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:54,160 The last I'd say, of the last 12 years, 10 of those years, I continued to work 74 00:07:54,160 --> 00:08:00,080 as a transplant coordinator caring for kidney patients after they'd gotten a kidney transplant. 75 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:06,640 And during those 10 years is when I really felt like I had found kind of the place where I could 76 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:11,920 minister to other people, just developing those long term relationships, getting involved in their 77 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,960 lives, making a difference, helping improve their quality of life. But it's something that I've 78 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:22,640 continued to do despite all of the joint issues and the pain and the fatigue and the other symptoms. 79 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:31,200 When COVID hit, of course, everything got harder. And I again got to the point with my health where 80 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,760 I wasn't sure I could continue anymore. Because one of the responsibilities of a transplant 81 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:41,600 coordinator is to be on call. And to be on call, I could be up, you know, all weekend long and then 82 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:48,000 expected to be back in the office, and I couldn't do it anymore. It was just too much. That was 83 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,840 probably the hardest transition for me because I felt like I had finally found the place where the 84 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,640 Lord wanted me and the place where I could serve, in addition to being able to care for my family. 85 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,560 But I couldn't do it anymore. And the symptoms and the health issues, I felt like had taken that 86 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:12,160 away from me. But also made it to where I couldn't support my family in the way I wanted to either 87 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:19,520 financially. So it was a very hard transition. I actually worked with a Christian trauma therapist. 88 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:25,200 She happened to be a pastor's wife and happened to be married to a spouse who had a muscular 89 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,640 disorder. And so it's just a perfect fit for me during that time to help me kind of come to terms 90 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:35,200 with that. Because one of the things as you go through that, that you have to deal with is the 91 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:41,120 guilt of feeling like a failure. That I've let my family down, I've let my patients down, you know, 92 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:47,760 so many people in my life who need me that I can't care for in the way that I wanted to. And so she 93 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:55,760 helped me come to realize that it's important to care for yourself because self-care is caring for 94 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:02,400 other people. Self-care, keeping yourself strong and yourself healthy allows you to continue to 95 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:09,520 minister to others. And so during that kind of year that I worked with her, I transitioned and 96 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:17,040 took a job. I now work for a large medical insurance company and I do nursing case management. 97 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:23,920 I take care of transplant patients. But now I'm on the authorization side of things. And so I 98 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:31,120 work on the authorization side of things and more the education side of things. And because of my 99 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:38,400 role, I also do a lot of authorizations for non-transplant related services. And ironically 100 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:45,760 enough, I am the pain management expert on my team. Anytime they get requests for injections 101 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,400 and the clinicals aren't clear, they'll say, hey, Bethany, will you look at this? Because I'm not 102 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:56,400 sure if this is appropriate or not, but you know the lingo. And I do because I've pretty much had 103 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:02,000 every of these injections done to myself. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at now. And 104 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,280 though I feel like a lot has been taken away, I also feel like the Lord has been there kind 105 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,760 of gently guiding and leading to where he wanted me to be in each place and time. 106 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Well, thank you for sharing that. I jotted down a couple things I wanted to kind of circle back to, if I could, in your story. 107 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:28,640 And first, I just want to get the disease that you have. Ehlers-Durles, how do you say that? 108 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:36,640 So I have hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. Danlos, okay. Yeah, it's a genetic condition. 109 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:43,440 It's a connective tissue disorder. Basically, when you're born, you're born with your system 110 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,560 being a little bit laxer than it should be. And that means your joints can be hypermobile, 111 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:52,880 and you can have problems with other systems in the body, too, skin and gut and heart and all of 112 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:58,240 those things as well. Very systemic. So yes. And again, like I can look back and see that I had 113 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,920 symptoms as a child, but didn't really know that I wasn't normal until one day one of the kidney 114 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,960 doctors I worked with says, hey Bethany, that's not normal. You need to get that checked out. 115 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:14,560 And after a very long diagnostic odyssey, I was able to get that formal diagnosis. 116 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:22,240 Well, and that kind of diagnostic odyssey that you talk about, I know is something a lot of 117 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:29,040 people can relate to. And also, it can be relieving. Even if what you find out you have is 118 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:35,360 going to be a lifelong illness and struggle, I know it can be relieving just to get a diagnosis. 119 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,840 I think it can be affirming that, okay, am I crazy? And I really do have a very real issue going on. 120 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:47,680 And if you don't get a diagnosis, you're also not crazy. But people may see you that way, 121 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,160 and that you may feel that way at times because you just want to get, at least be able to name it. 122 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:58,320 That was helpful to me. I didn't have a very long journey to diagnosis in my particular situation, 123 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:05,040 but I have heard a lot of people that have. And I know that's part of the struggle too. Another 124 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,200 thing I think people can relate to from your story, and I did at certain points as well, 125 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:15,840 is kind of this path you think, well, this is where God wants me to go. And you start off down 126 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:22,800 that path, and you find fulfillment in that path, and then find out, at least to continue, it becomes 127 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:31,760 a dead end. And that can be very faith destabilizing in a way, I think, because 128 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,960 I don't know, I'll let you say it for yourself. Did you feel that God had misled you or that you 129 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,400 had just read the sign wrong? Or how did you feel in the moment when you were dealing with that, 130 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,120 yeah, this is the part where I think God wants me to go, and then that ended up not being the case, 131 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:55,920 at least long term. Yeah, I can think of multiple times in my life where that has happened. 132 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:07,200 I think initially you feel very afraid. You feel depressed, you feel lost, you feel confused, 133 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,560 just so many different emotions to kind of be like, wait a second, I thought this is what you 134 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,440 wanted me to do, Lord, like, why is all of this changing? Like, did I do something wrong? Did I 135 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:23,440 misunderstand you? Did I not do the right thing? Like, have I let you down? I think, again, when 136 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,320 you're dealing with chronic illness, there's that constant feeling of it being your fault, that it's 137 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:36,560 your body, or your disease, that you're the one at fault, that your family or the people around you 138 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:42,400 can't do what they want to do or do what they need to do because you're holding them back or 139 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:48,560 you're limiting them. And I think sometimes even letting God down, you know, like, I'm sorry, Lord, 140 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,680 I wasn't strong enough to do what you wanted me to do, or I wasn't, I didn't, you know, I didn't do 141 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:58,960 the right things or take the right medicine or whatever, just that a lot of guilt, a lot of grief, 142 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:05,760 a lot of confusion, it's hard. And definitely why I mentioned that I worked with a chronic disease 143 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:12,720 therapist because those moments are tough and you really need support to help you work through all 144 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,800 the different kind of feelings and thoughts to get to kind of a better place. 145 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:22,560 Yeah. And I'm going to come back to the therapy part of your story and just, you know, because I 146 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:27,760 think that's an important point. I don't want to miss that. But I do want to say, you know, I think 147 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:35,200 people maybe that don't have chronic illness or chronic condition don't really want to be 148 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:42,960 treated, don't realize the amount of decisions that you have to make as a patient. And that causes 149 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:50,000 sometimes you to have a lot of self-doubt, you know, and so the doctor you choose, the approach 150 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,840 you choose with that doctor, the medicines you choose, and it always leaves this kind of second 151 00:15:53,840 --> 00:16:00,400 guessing. Should we have done this? Was I, sometimes I think, was I too eager to just do 152 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:07,600 what the doctor said and should I have considered other, you know, other choices? And so, you know, 153 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,880 if people are listening to this that haven't been through this, they may be wondering, well, how 154 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,920 could you think, you know, anything's your fault? And ultimately, we know it's not, right? I mean, 155 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:21,520 logically, but I think emotionally, you know, we feel that the baggage really of every decision 156 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:28,560 that has to be made and always kind of the second guessing that's going on. And that is a lot. And 157 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:34,160 you know, bring up the counseling again, because I wonder, I don't have any stats on this. I don't 158 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:40,000 know how many people dealing with chronic conditions have also been to counseling or seen a therapist. 159 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,280 I have, you know, a few times in my life, I've had kind of two different seasons where I was going 160 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:52,000 regularly to a therapist. And for me, it was just dealing with the depression and the way that just 161 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:59,520 takes your really just your zest for life away when you're going through it. And so, what would 162 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:06,080 you say to someone that was struggling with that decision or whether they should go see a therapist 163 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:15,360 or see a counselor? Well, first off, I'd say that it's not your fault. I think that there are some 164 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:21,680 Christian circles that feel like if you just prayed more and had more faith, you wouldn't need 165 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:26,720 that or you wouldn't feel like that. And that's just not the case. You know, there's biological 166 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:32,080 reasons when we struggle with anxiety and depression and other mental health issues. So, 167 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:37,200 that's what I would first say is don't let others tell you there's something wrong with you or 168 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:44,160 you're not a good Christian, because you need that. Second would be to reach out and to keep 169 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:50,480 reaching out. When I first started going to therapy, I used a company online and it was a 170 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,760 couple of therapists before I found one that I meshed with. The first couple of people just 171 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,200 weren't a good fit until I happened to find this lady who I believe was a godsend for me. So, 172 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:09,440 don't hesitate to keep asking and to keep looking because you deserve to have someone in your life, 173 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:16,080 someone who listens, someone who believes, and someone who can help you kind of work through 174 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:24,800 all of the different challenges that you're dealing with. Yeah. You know, I know that for my own 175 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:32,480 experience and my own evaluation of myself, I thought, and this is going to sound kind of 176 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,520 arrogant, maybe I was, you know, that I was so good, so analytical that I could process everything 177 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:43,440 myself. I wasn't with a counselor probably more than five minutes before I realized how important 178 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:49,840 that outside voice was, especially a trained professional that could give me insight into 179 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,680 things that I had not even thought about and connections that I had not even made. And so, 180 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:02,160 you know, I really needed it so much more than I realized. And it helped me, like you said, 181 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:08,480 it just helped me to work through some of the, you know, just the trauma, the struggle of that 182 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:16,000 chronic illness and chronic pain brings. I mean, it does, it reshapes what our life looks like, 183 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:22,080 and it takes away so much of our self-determination. And maybe that's an illusion anyway, 184 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:28,240 but while we're living in that illusion, you know, we feel like we can determine, even if we're 185 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:33,440 trying to be responsive to God's calling in our life, we still feel like we have a role in choosing 186 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:40,720 that and following, you know, that path. And so, to be put into a position where we have this loss 187 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,160 of control or maybe the loss of the illusion of control, either way, I think is something that 188 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,120 you're going to need some help working through. And I really do want to encourage more people 189 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:57,760 to seek out that kind of help. And I know that it can be a struggle financially, 190 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:05,360 depends on what your insurance will cover and all that. And so, I recognize that there may be some 191 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:12,560 obstacles, but I think it's worth overcoming those obstacles, you know, other than just to give into... 192 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,600 Missing part of the transcript, but basically I (David) mention the particular struggle that men have reaching out for help and that Timothy Gunnells and I had recorded the previoius episdoe about that very thing. 196 00:20:46,020 --> 00:20:50,180 or a man listening to this episode, I would encourage you to go back, listen to that previous 197 00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:55,620 episode as well. I think Tim and I had a really great conversation about what is a kind of a 198 00:20:55,620 --> 00:21:01,780 particular problem with chronic illness circles, and that is men trying to just do everything on 199 00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:07,540 their own and not admit to any weakness. But that can be a problem for women too, and women can 200 00:21:07,540 --> 00:21:13,220 also feel like they got to solve it themselves. Did it take you a while to get to that point 201 00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:18,980 where you were willing to seek out that kind of help? I definitely had to get to a very low point 202 00:21:18,980 --> 00:21:25,300 before I was willing to accept that. I think being a nurse and being a Christian, you feel like you 203 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,820 should have all, I feel like I should have all the tools to deal with it, that I should be able to 204 00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:35,140 manage it on my own. But I just got to that place where, I don't know, the way that I describe it 205 00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:42,180 is I felt like the weight of the world was on me and needed me, and I had nothing left to give. I 206 00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:50,500 was empty. I was completely out of any resources whatsoever for anyone, and that's when I realized, 207 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:55,300 all right, something has to change because I can't, like there's nothing left of me anymore. 208 00:21:56,260 --> 00:22:05,300 You touched on that in your kind of opening story, when you mentioned self-care and how that becomes 209 00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:13,060 so critical to us being able to help anyone else. We first feel guilty because if we think, 210 00:22:13,060 --> 00:22:16,100 oh, we've got to go take care of ourselves, somehow we're doing something selfish. 211 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:24,340 But we learn, and I think counselors do help us to see this, but other people in our life can too, 212 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:30,660 that taking care of yourself is essential if you're going to be able to help anyone else. 213 00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:36,900 That is especially true if you're being drained by chronic illness and pain and all that comes with 214 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:48,020 that. So how has emphasizing self-care put you in a better position to be able to help others going 215 00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:53,620 forward or to be there for others going forward in kind of a new way than you used to be able to? 216 00:22:53,620 --> 00:23:02,740 Well, something my counselor said is that was the turning point for me, is that she talked about 217 00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:09,780 Jesus and how Jesus constantly had people who needed to be cared for, people who were hungry, 218 00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:17,780 who were sick, who needed to be poured into, and even Jesus had to take time away. He had to go 219 00:23:17,780 --> 00:23:24,180 to the mountaintop and be alone and pray and take care of himself in order to continue caring for 220 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:30,900 others. That was what really spoke to me and helped me realize, okay, this is what Jesus wants me to 221 00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:41,380 do and this is what I need to change. That's what I think kind of was the starting point for the 222 00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:48,020 recent job change for me. Working as a transplant coordinator, I gave everything to care for those 223 00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:55,060 patients. They were very sick. They needed a lot of attention. I could put in 50, 60, 70 hours a week 224 00:23:56,100 --> 00:24:03,860 in trying to keep them alive and healthy. I loved it, but I did nothing but give and never 225 00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:10,980 looked to my own needs. I just would kind of, well, let's slap a TENS unit on, a lidocaine patch, 226 00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:16,100 put the brace on and keep going. I just would throw more things at the symptoms and keep pushing 227 00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:25,220 through them until I kind of got to that breaking point. Now what I'm doing working for a health 228 00:24:25,220 --> 00:24:30,820 insurance company, it allows me to work from home. I only have 40 hours a week. I'm not on call. 229 00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:39,300 Because I'm at home, I'm able to pace better. I'm able to care for myself better, not having to go 230 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:43,860 into the office. I don't have to put makeup on if I don't want to. That saves some time and energy 231 00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:51,380 in my day. That's just a little example. You can ask my husband. I'm a different person than I was 232 00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:58,100 before. I have more energy and time to give to my kids versus coming home completely wiped out. 233 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:04,740 We're able to do more together as a family. In the moment, it felt like chronic disease took away 234 00:25:04,740 --> 00:25:11,780 something that I loved, but now looking back, I can see the Lord's hand in it. Caring for 235 00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:16,420 yourself is what's most important right now. That's going to let you keep caring for others and let 236 00:25:16,420 --> 00:25:21,540 you enjoy better quality of life. That's what I want for you. I want an abundant life for you. 237 00:25:21,540 --> 00:25:28,660 That's very well said. God does not expect us to give anything that he doesn't provide to us. 238 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:35,860 There's an old hymn that reminded me of that has the line, 239 00:25:35,860 --> 00:25:41,060 if just a cup of water I place within your hand, then just a cup of water is all that I demand. 240 00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:50,100 That's such a simple illustration of a profound truth. God doesn't expect anything that he doesn't give to us, 241 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:56,900 but that is anything that we give to others is coming from him anyway. Taking care of myself, 242 00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:04,820 which for a Christian very much includes a spiritual connection with God and letting him fill us up. 243 00:26:04,820 --> 00:26:10,180 You gave the great example of Jesus withdrawing to the lonely places to pray and to be with his 244 00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:17,700 father. Self-care includes spiritual self-care. I think of many examples in the Bible actually of 245 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:24,500 people who do kind of get to their wits end and how God always responds to them with empathy. 246 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:30,260 A big story to me is the story of Elijah. Elijah being on the run from Jezebel, 247 00:26:30,260 --> 00:26:35,620 basically wanting to die. He's given all that he can. He feels like there's no one else faithful 248 00:26:35,620 --> 00:26:41,380 in the whole land. Not everything that Elijah believed was true about the situation. He had 249 00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:47,620 lost perspective, but God's gentleness in dealing with him. You might remember the story, of course, 250 00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:54,100 where he's on the mountain at Mount Sinai. I don't remember the exact order, but there's like the 251 00:26:54,100 --> 00:27:02,740 earthquake and the wind and I think a fire. It says that God wasn't in those and God shows up 252 00:27:02,740 --> 00:27:13,780 in the gentle, quiet whisper. It reminds me how God sees our hurt. I'll use another example that's 253 00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:20,260 just kind of popping in my mind now, but I think about Hagar. Hagar being, again, someone on the 254 00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:26,100 run and was just completely dry. Literally, I mean, she was dying of thirst. She and her son. 255 00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:32,580 God coming to her rescue, even though she was not the mother of the covenant child like Sarah was 256 00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:37,620 of Isaac. God sees her. He cares for her need in that situation. It shows us the heart of God. 257 00:27:37,620 --> 00:27:43,220 I think we get it upside down when we think that God needs us instead of, 258 00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:49,140 no, we need God. When we get to thinking that God needs us, that can lead us into some of those 259 00:27:49,140 --> 00:27:55,300 unhealthy places where we think we're letting God down, kind of like you talked about earlier 260 00:27:55,300 --> 00:28:02,340 in your story. I don't think we can let God down just because we are unable to do something, 261 00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:09,860 because anything that we can do comes from Him anyway. Thank you for elaborating on that. 262 00:28:10,820 --> 00:28:18,100 I wanted to touch on another point in your story because you brought this up. It isn't just us that 263 00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:28,820 is affected. When we get married, we're going to have someone that we share dreams with. This 264 00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:33,540 happened with me and my wife as well. We had a way that we thought our life was going to look, 265 00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:41,620 and it looks very different. Your husband was in ministry, was in preaching, and he ended up 266 00:28:41,620 --> 00:28:48,420 getting a different job, I think you said, in computers. You could elaborate on this if you 267 00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:53,700 want, but usually that has something to do in this situation with needing better insurance coverage 268 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:59,060 and things of that nature. For me, Katie had to go and become a full-time teacher for a while, 269 00:28:59,060 --> 00:29:05,300 for that very reason. It wasn't an interruption of her dreams because I think she did intend to 270 00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:11,140 go teach at some point, but it became absolutely vital to us to be able to survive financially. 271 00:29:11,860 --> 00:29:17,940 If the situation were reversed, it could have been very easily me having to leave ministry to go get 272 00:29:17,940 --> 00:29:24,500 a job that would provide that kind of healthcare. I just want to ask you how you guys have navigated 273 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:31,460 that as a couple, and much as you're willing to share how he's dealt with that, 274 00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:39,700 if you could elaborate on that a little bit. Yeah, you're absolutely correct. The reason that he 275 00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:46,100 shifted the focus of his career was to be able to better provide for our family. As I started to 276 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:51,460 have more and more health challenges as our firstborn was born with the congenital defect, 277 00:29:51,460 --> 00:29:57,860 she now has the same condition I do. She's been formally diagnosed as well. As we've gone through 278 00:29:57,860 --> 00:30:02,820 that over those first few years, that was his first thought was, I have to provide for my family, 279 00:30:02,820 --> 00:30:08,660 and that's what the Lord has called me to do first and foremost. He worked really hard. He went back 280 00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:16,020 to school. He was working nights stocking shelves at Walmart in order to pay bills, and then during 281 00:30:16,020 --> 00:30:23,700 the day he was going to school and watching our toddler, and did that for a couple of years to 282 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:29,540 get his computer degree, and then slowly has been building that up. His focus, if you ask him, has 283 00:30:29,540 --> 00:30:35,940 been, I want to get to a point where I can financially support my family so that if my wife can't 284 00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:40,980 work at all anymore, we're going to be okay, and she's going to be covered with health insurance 285 00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:51,780 and so forth. So I'm very blessed. He is an amazing person. He constantly goes out of his way to try 286 00:30:51,780 --> 00:30:58,500 to find ways to make my life easier and better and to make sure that we're taken care of at all times. 287 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:06,020 You asked about how we navigated a lot of that as a couple. I think just constant open communication. 288 00:31:06,020 --> 00:31:12,100 We have had to make sure we talk about everything, every little thing, every big thing, every 289 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:19,540 decision, every non-decision, just constantly keeping that door of communication open as we 290 00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:26,660 have navigated every challenge, making sure that we have kept the Lord kind of foremost in our 291 00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:32,820 marriage and staying connected to him as much as we have each other. And then spending time, like 292 00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:39,060 we have to make sure that we don't just take care of the kids and do our jobs, that we also find time 293 00:31:39,060 --> 00:31:44,900 to do things fun together as a couple. So that means me learning to enjoy football and going to 294 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:50,100 football games with him, and that means him learning to enjoy reading books and sometimes sitting on 295 00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:57,220 the couch and reading books with me, but making sure that life isn't consumed by all of the needs 296 00:31:57,220 --> 00:32:03,780 and that we still have that leisure time together. So I'd say those have been the two most important 297 00:32:03,780 --> 00:32:09,620 pieces for us. And really that's good advice for any married couple. I just think the stresses of 298 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:15,540 chronic illness and pain make it even more vital that we have those open lines of communication. 299 00:32:15,540 --> 00:32:20,340 That way both of you aren't thinking totally different things about the direction of things 300 00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:23,700 are going. And of course that can lead to a lot of trouble, but it sounds like you have a beautiful 301 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:30,260 marriage and a beautiful family. And I know that can be a blessing and a place of reprieve for us 302 00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:35,780 in our struggles with the chronic conditions. And in that, I know we may have listeners who don't 303 00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:41,140 have that strong support network or didn't have a spouse that stood by their side. And so we 304 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:49,380 acknowledge that extreme difficulty that you may be going through. And all we can say is that, yes, 305 00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:55,540 we recognize that that is a blessing that not everyone has. And that adds yet another level of 306 00:32:56,100 --> 00:33:02,020 stress on your life. And again, maybe even more of a reason to go and find help and talk to a 307 00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:07,060 counselor, a therapist that can help you navigate that. I actually want to correct something I said 308 00:33:07,060 --> 00:33:11,380 earlier, because I talked about your husband leaving ministry, and really what he did was choose 309 00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:19,300 the ministry that he most needed to do in that situation, which was to his family. And so, yes, 310 00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:26,580 he left professional ministry, but I'm sure it was costly. But on the other hand, I think, 311 00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:34,820 you said this in your story, that family, God wants us to prioritize our family. And when 312 00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:39,300 our family's in trouble, we got to take care of our family. And that applied to you and it applied 313 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:45,220 to him. And I think that applies to all of us. And again, this kind of model of ministry that we 314 00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:52,740 had seen in the church where people sacrifice their families in order to stay in ministry or to 315 00:33:52,740 --> 00:34:00,260 work long, long hours in ministry has led to a lot of bad things, a lot of bad outcomes. And God 316 00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:07,860 wants us to take care of our family. As we were told in Ephesians 5, we're to love our...in this 317 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:13,620 case, he's talking about to the husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church. He doesn't 318 00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:20,900 say put the church above your spouse, you know, and of course, in that same context, he's addressing 319 00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:26,580 both husbands and wives. So, what a beautiful picture of Christ's love for the church and how 320 00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:32,900 your husband has responded in your story, in your journey. And it is your journey together anyway. 321 00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:38,020 It's not just your journey, you know what I mean? It's a partnership. That's what we sign up 322 00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:42,180 for when we get married. It's what we want. We want to...and so, we're in everything together. 323 00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:48,820 And so, I thank you for sharing that. Bethany, is there anything else you would want to add to 324 00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:56,740 your journey or your outlook going forward and that you would want to share with our listeners? 325 00:34:56,740 --> 00:35:03,220 I think one thing I'd want to share is when you have chronic health issues, again, it's sometimes 326 00:35:03,220 --> 00:35:09,060 easy to feel like it's not just that it's your fault, but that there's something wrong with you 327 00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:16,980 and that you're inherently wrong or bad or something like that. And I think it's 328 00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:24,180 important to remember that we truly are knit together in our mother's womb, that we truly are 329 00:35:24,180 --> 00:35:29,540 created this way for a purpose. And yes, that can seem kind of harsh when you think, 330 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:35,780 well, did God want me to suffer? Well, no. But God does allow us to walk through all of this 331 00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:42,820 because of the other purposes that he has, because of the other people and situations in our life 332 00:35:42,820 --> 00:35:49,380 that we will go through and the other people that we will touch and encourage and minister to. 333 00:35:50,260 --> 00:35:55,540 And I bring up that verse in particular, the knit together in your mother's womb, because 334 00:35:55,540 --> 00:36:02,340 with my condition, Ehlers-Danlos, the connective tissue is formed in the womb. That's when those 335 00:36:02,340 --> 00:36:08,340 building blocks are put together. So, mine were put together a different way, making me a little 336 00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:17,060 bit looser. And when I got pregnant with my third child, she was not expected. She was a very 337 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:23,860 unplanned, but wonderful miracle. And I say miracle because without going into detail, there were 338 00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:28,980 some complications of the pregnancy, very rare ones that had never even happened in the history 339 00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:37,780 of that medical facility I attended. But because my tissues are looser, my womb is 340 00:36:37,780 --> 00:36:46,580 looser because I am stretchier, they were able to save her life. And she's here today because of 341 00:36:46,580 --> 00:36:53,700 how I am, because of how I was knit together in the mother's womb. And she's still little. I don't 342 00:36:53,700 --> 00:36:58,740 know what the Lord has for her, but I know he's got some sort of purpose because she would not 343 00:36:58,740 --> 00:37:04,820 be here if it weren't for the way that he made me. And so, I just like to share that story to 344 00:37:04,820 --> 00:37:11,300 encourage everyone that the Lord does have his hand on your life. He is guiding you, though it 345 00:37:11,860 --> 00:37:18,660 feels like you lose a lot. There's so much more that you're gaining through the process and that 346 00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:24,500 you will continue to gain. And probably a lot that we won't know even until we get to heaven. 347 00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:30,100 It's like that illustration of looking at the tapestry and we can only see that underside of 348 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:35,540 all of those strings and it looks like a hot mess. But the Lord is the one up top who can see that 349 00:37:35,540 --> 00:37:41,540 beautiful picture of what he's weaving. So, I just wanted to share that to encourage everyone that 350 00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:48,740 he is there, he is with you, he does have a plan. Even if you don't see it till heaven, 351 00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:56,820 you're not alone and there's nothing wrong with you. He didn't create you and make you something 352 00:37:56,820 --> 00:38:01,860 that you shouldn't be. He truly does have his hand on your life. What an incredible, 353 00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:07,940 powerful testimony about your daughter. And wow, I mean, It kind of brought emotion, 354 00:38:09,220 --> 00:38:14,420 tears to my eyes just hearing that because it's just something you could never anticipate, 355 00:38:16,180 --> 00:38:20,660 and a good that you could never see. But like you said, God sees everything from beginning to end 356 00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:26,740 and what a faithful testimony to how he works in our lives. Like you said, some we know about 357 00:38:26,740 --> 00:38:31,940 some we don't. And there's just this promise that he'll be with us through everything that 358 00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:36,900 we're going through. But we'll end on that note because that's really the theme we're trying to 359 00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:42,660 emphasize in this particular interview, this podcast is that we recognize that the losses 360 00:38:42,660 --> 00:38:49,620 that we experience are not just our own, they're our families and our own. And they're very real. 361 00:38:50,180 --> 00:38:54,820 And a lot of times people get kind of hung up in that part of their journey of trying to go back 362 00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:59,940 and reclaim. And if a person's able to get better or get healthier and able to reclaim something, 363 00:38:59,940 --> 00:39:04,180 they lost that too is a powerful testimony. But most of our listeners haven't been able 364 00:39:04,180 --> 00:39:08,660 to experience that. Most of our listeners are people who are living still daily with chronic 365 00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:15,940 illness, chronic pain. And it may be that God wants them to live faithfully with that. And that's 366 00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:20,420 hard to hear. It's hard to accept, especially if you're in an environment and you hit on this, 367 00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:26,500 Bethany, where people are being told that there's something defective about their faith if they have 368 00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:32,900 a chronic illness or chronic pain. And that's just bad theology. I don't see how you can thrive 369 00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:37,220 spiritually in that environment, especially if you're living with chronic illness or chronic pain. 370 00:39:37,220 --> 00:39:42,820 You may have to get into a healthier situation, but there's nothing in the Bible that shies away 371 00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:49,540 from the prospect of faithful suffering. I mean, from beginning to end, there are people, 372 00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:53,700 yes, there are people that are miraculously healed. We praise God for that. But there are 373 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:59,380 many, many examples where that does not happen. And that does not mean God has abandoned you. 374 00:39:59,380 --> 00:40:05,220 That means he's doing something in your life through you and through your illness and pain. 375 00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:11,860 And yeah, I know you'd rather it just not happen, not be there. That's what we all wanted. 376 00:40:12,980 --> 00:40:18,580 But I think there are blessings ahead if we can embrace what has happened and embrace that God 377 00:40:18,580 --> 00:40:23,700 is walking with us to be able to move forward. And I feel like your story beautifully illustrates 378 00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:29,940 that. So Bethany, thank you for being with us on In the Seams. And I want to thank our listeners 379 00:40:29,940 --> 00:40:37,220 as well for spending some time with us whenever this goes on air, which we're recording this on 380 00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:42,580 December 14th. So I think it will be available here in a couple of days. And as you're listening 381 00:40:42,580 --> 00:40:50,820 to this, Christmas is dead ahead in your sights. And we pray that this will be a time of blessing 382 00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:54,820 and time of refreshment with your family. And we know the holidays can be difficult for their own 383 00:40:54,820 --> 00:41:04,180 reasons as well. But we pray that the hope that we have in the incarnate Christ can be with you 384 00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:11,860 and get you through this holiday season. So we'll be back on air sometime next year. 385 00:41:11,860 --> 00:41:17,620 Always encourage you to go to brokenandmended.org to see when our support groups are meeting or 386 00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:22,020 if those aren't always up to date, that's my fault. But you can at least see what groups are 387 00:41:22,020 --> 00:41:27,140 available when they normally meet and also other resources like our Facebook group and so forth 388 00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:32,500 that you can get plugged into and things including this podcast that you can find there on our website. 389 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:45,380 So we'll sign off with that and wish you a very Merry Christmas.