1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,320 Welcome to season two of the Poggle Podcast. 2 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,000 I'm Matt Targa, producer of the Poggle Podcast for the Poggle Project. 3 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,000 The Poggle Podcast is an ongoing conversation from the Poggle Project that celebrates innovative 4 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,480 educators both in and out of the classroom. 5 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,360 For our second episode this season, we will focus on Poggle's national meeting and what 6 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:36,360 we do. 7 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:41,280 We'll be answering several questions, including how does this meeting help the project move 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,240 its strategic plan forward, as well as how do the working groups associated with the 9 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,080 strategic plan make that happen? 10 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,680 Today, co-host Alex Bruchow, who is a professor of chemistry at Rider University and chair 11 00:00:54,680 --> 00:01:00,040 of the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, interviews Marty Perry, vice chair for professional 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,880 education in the College of Pharmacy at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. 13 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,520 We'll also have Suzanne Rutter, professor of chemistry at Virginia Commonwealth University 14 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,500 in Richmond, and Chris Bauer, professor of chemistry at the University of New Hampshire's 15 00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:18,800 College of Engineering and Physical Sciences. 16 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:24,880 Alex, Marty, Suzanne, and Chris, thank you very much for being here today to discuss 17 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,400 the importance of Poggle's national meeting. 18 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:38,880 And Alex, I will now pass the baton over to you. 19 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,960 This season, we will explore the inner workings of the Poggle Project. 20 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:48,360 The project, it turns out, is not just about creating materials and disseminating them 21 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,080 to the broader educational community. 22 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,240 There are many other activities that people in the organization undertake to promote the 23 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,320 mission of the project. 24 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,480 We'll talk to educators around the country who have worked to steer and shape various 25 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,200 aspects of the Poggle Project. 26 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,200 Through different episodes this season, listeners will learn about the many opportunities participate 27 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,240 in the workings of the project. 28 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:16,160 In this episode, we're going to discuss one of the key working aspects of the Poggle Project, 29 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,480 the Poggle National Meeting, or PNM. 30 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,440 Early in the history of the Poggle Project, the PNM was convened annually to bring together 31 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,640 the major participants of the National Science Foundation grants that funded the early days 32 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,680 of the Poggle Project. 33 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,800 At these meetings, principal investigators of the grant got together to make sure that 34 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,600 all aspects of these large grants were being addressed and that the work that was proposed 35 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,680 was actually getting done in a timely fashion. 36 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:50,800 As the project grew from a grant-funded endeavor to a nonprofit organization, the activities 37 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,360 at the PNM also evolved. 38 00:02:53,360 --> 00:03:00,200 As the strategic plan was developed, the activities at the PNM became more focused on operationalizing 39 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,240 the aspects of the strategic plan through what we call working groups. 40 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:11,120 In today's podcast, I'm speaking with Marty Perry, Chris Bauer, and Suzanne Rutter. 41 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,480 All three of them have been working with the Poggle Project for many years and are veterans 42 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,560 of many PNMs. 43 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:18,560 So welcome to you all. 44 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,560 Glad you could join us. 45 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,040 Chris, I want to start with you. 46 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,580 So we discussed the strategic plan in our last episode, and you were sort of the architect 47 00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:31,000 of our last revision of the plan. 48 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,960 Can you tell us a little bit about how these working groups that I mentioned are related 49 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,680 to the strategic plan? 50 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:44,600 Sure, Alex, and appreciate the chance to be here to share this with everybody. 51 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:52,840 So the working groups that get together at the Poggle National Meeting are actually the 52 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,840 way that the strategic plan moves forward. 53 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:04,840 The working groups are established ahead of time by the steering committee, and that's 54 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,840 based on looking at where the project has come, progress that has been made in the past, 55 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,000 and also what goals we have looking for the future. 56 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,100 And the steering committee decides where do we want to have people focusing their attention 57 00:04:20,100 --> 00:04:24,520 and their time to try to push those goals along. 58 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:31,080 So each of those working groups, the steering committee carefully thinks about where the 59 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:40,560 challenge is, where do we want to be going, and provides a at least crude charge to the 60 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,200 working groups to give them some idea of what direction they would like them to be going 61 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,540 in to kind of make sure that they're aware of past efforts and kind of what the status 62 00:04:51,540 --> 00:04:54,840 of the current project is. 63 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:56,700 But they also have some autonomy. 64 00:04:56,700 --> 00:05:02,960 They're not just following a recipe that the steering committee is providing. 65 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:08,580 So that's kind of what folks come into the national meeting find when they get there 66 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:13,120 is they find this structure already set up and they're assigned. 67 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,800 The people we know who are coming are assigned to working groups, and we kind of balance 68 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:24,040 the invitations to make sure the working group participation has folks on it who we think 69 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,200 are going to be able to contribute best there. 70 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,200 Right. 71 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:34,000 So people come in with not necessarily told, oh, you're going to be working in this working 72 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,000 group. 73 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,920 There's some selection that goes on beforehand, right? 74 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:39,920 Yes. 75 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,440 Usually we try to adapt to the interests of the folks who are participating. 76 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:52,400 I mean, oftentimes these are continuations of past working groups, but we do have new 77 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:59,120 people each year at the national meeting and we look for what their interests and expertise 78 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,040 are and then attach them to these other working groups where there's already folks who have 79 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,480 some experience. 80 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,480 Gotcha. 81 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:13,840 So and then these working groups are connected to aspects of the project strategic plan, 82 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:19,560 and they're often more than one working group connected to a single goal in the plan. 83 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Can you give me an example of, you know, two working groups that work towards the same 84 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,160 sort of goal in the strategic plan? 85 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:30,800 Yeah, sure. 86 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:37,360 We have five different goals and we have at the moment something like 10 or 12 different 87 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,360 working groups. 88 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:45,860 So first of all, it's clear that we have multiple groups working on different aspects of goals. 89 00:06:45,860 --> 00:06:52,000 One of the goals that's emerged is very important is one that involves diversity and inclusivity, 90 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:58,400 and this is with respect to our community of practitioners as well as with students. 91 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:04,880 And there's been an interestedness over the past, but at the last national meeting, we 92 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:10,500 actually thought about this more and to be more proactive, we actually divided that up 93 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:13,240 into several different working groups. 94 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:20,280 So we have an equity working group that's looking at how to embrace equity in general. 95 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,360 It's kind of like the ethos for the whole community. 96 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:32,440 We have a working group on mentors, specifically thinking about how can we mentor new folks 97 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:38,160 who are joining the community to be aware of equity and diversity issues there. 98 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,400 In other words, what kind of support might be necessary to help people participate. 99 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,040 And then also we have a working group looking at recruitment, how to bring people to the 100 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,440 project who may not have been attached to the project before and kind of reaching out 101 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,980 to different sorts of populations. 102 00:07:54,980 --> 00:07:59,920 Each of those things require some effort and instead of making them the responsibility 103 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:06,120 of a single group, we decided to spread that out and allow some focus on those particular 104 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,660 issues. 105 00:08:07,660 --> 00:08:12,400 Another place of overlap, we do have a research working group. 106 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:18,520 Suzanne may say more about that in a bit, but I'll point out that that has overlaps as well. 107 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:26,560 We've developed observational protocol instruments and in one working group and the research 108 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,920 working group is thinking about how to make use of that in terms of research projects 109 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,520 that may go on. 110 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,080 So it's typical to have overlap here. 111 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:36,080 Yeah. 112 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,080 Okay. 113 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,420 Thanks, Chris. 114 00:08:39,420 --> 00:08:41,160 So Marty, I want to turn to you. 115 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:48,320 You're currently chair of the steering committee and in that role, you help sort of connect 116 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,480 people in these working groups. 117 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:57,560 I guess some of the assignment of the new people, as Chris talked about, falls to you. 118 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:02,400 Can you tell me a little bit about what these working groups are actually then doing at 119 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:03,400 the PNM? 120 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:04,400 Sure, Alex. 121 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,280 And it's great to be here with this awesome group of people. 122 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,840 And I definitely want to give a shout out to two people who've really helped shepherd 123 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,960 and get us to the point where we are now with the strategic plan. 124 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:25,440 Of course, that's Chris, who helped with our last iteration plan, but also Susan Shadel, 125 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,160 who was a part of the previous podcast. 126 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:33,560 If you haven't listened to Susan discuss the initial development of the strategic plan, 127 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:35,480 you should definitely do so. 128 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,920 But when we get to the PNM and people have indicated their preference for a particular 129 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:47,560 working group, usually as a part of the application process, each person will list two or three 130 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:53,000 working groups that they would potentially like to be a part of at the PNM. 131 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,320 They're only going to serve most likely on one of those unless there's some reason why 132 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,600 they should overlap and do more than one. 133 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:05,640 But most people are just on a single working group during their time at the PNM. 134 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,600 And they can expect that that's going to be a devoted time at the PNM, at least a couple 135 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:18,280 of hours every day that's allotted for the working groups to work on those charges that 136 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:24,600 Chris talked about just a few moments ago, but also to potentially go in unique directions 137 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:30,880 that the team feels like are important directions to work on while they're at the PNM. 138 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,520 So again, at least a couple of hours, sometimes a little bit more on a given day is devoted 139 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,280 to this working group time. 140 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,520 And so then, you know, these working groups, as you say, a couple of hours a day, the meeting 141 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,040 is only like three and a half days long. 142 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,960 How much are they going to get done in that period of time? 143 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,800 And you know, what are the expectations? 144 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:56,080 Because that's not a lot of time to like, you know, sort of figure out, you know, equity 145 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,000 in within the project. 146 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,160 Well, that's of course true. 147 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:06,400 And several of these working groups are long term, they've been working on their particular 148 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,080 tasks, in some cases for many years. 149 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,760 Some of them are just getting started. 150 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,680 We hope that there is some accomplishment by the end of the meeting, or at least a plan 151 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:20,120 or a strategy that's outlined. 152 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,280 Some groups will do a little pre work before they come to the PNM. 153 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:31,360 So often a chair of a working group may reach out to their, their team before the PNM and 154 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:38,280 say, Would you please read this or think about this particular idea before you come to the 155 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,680 PNM so that we can hit the ground running, so to speak. 156 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:42,680 Right. 157 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:47,320 So there's definitely it's not just, you know, a three and a half day commitment, people 158 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,960 are coming in and there's going to be things to do once you're done. 159 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:59,040 We're hoping again, there's no requirement that people commit beyond the PNM, but we 160 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:04,560 would hope that most people will choose to continue their commitment to their working 161 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,160 group, potentially for the entire year. 162 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,800 And again, some people have been on a particular working group for many years. 163 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:16,280 You know, Alex, I know you were a part of the PAC development in its early stages. 164 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,440 And we're on that group for many, many years. 165 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,000 Now you've joined strategic collaboration. 166 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,720 So I want to emphasize to everybody that just because you're on one working group doesn't 167 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,120 mean you have to stay on that working group forever. 168 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,600 So if you find something that's of interest that for some reason you want to switch, join 169 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,680 another team, you're, you're certainly free to do so. 170 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:40,680 Great. 171 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:41,680 Yeah. 172 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:46,320 You know, I know some people have moved from working group to working group, you know, 173 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,480 over the course of several PNM. 174 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,200 So yeah, you definitely can sort of see a number of different activities within the 175 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,560 project as you come to PNM. 176 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:05,120 So speaking of going to a number of PNM, Suzanne, you've participated in a number of these activities. 177 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,280 Can you tell the audience what kinds of activities take place at a PNM? 178 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,000 I mean, it's not just, you know, working in a group for three days. 179 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,000 Sure. 180 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,000 Thanks, Alex. 181 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 I'd be happy to talk about my experience. 182 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:23,000 PNM is structured a lot differently from a typical conference or meeting that you might 183 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,560 have attended before. 184 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,040 I'm usually at, you know, a scientific conference. 185 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,920 You might just attend talks and maybe give your own presentation. 186 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:36,160 The focus of PNM is really to work together towards a common goal, which is really the 187 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,760 definition of teamwork that the POGO project uses. 188 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,280 So we really are working as a team. 189 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,000 The working groups are certainly part of this goal related to the strategic plan. 190 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,920 But as you indicated, the working groups are not the only thing that happens at a meeting. 191 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,240 There's lots of other opportunities where people can get together with others who have 192 00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:00,200 similar interests to exchange ideas or work on a task. 193 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:06,360 For example, some people have made the time to discuss maybe solutions for a particular 194 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,200 classroom situation that they may be having issues with. 195 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:16,280 Sometimes people meet separately to talk about writing activities for a content area that 196 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:22,240 maybe doesn't have many activities or even discuss writing a grant proposal for funding 197 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,240 for a new idea. 198 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:30,200 So there's lots of time scheduled for setting up your own meetings. 199 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,400 The meeting has lots of these opportunities to connect with people, not just those in 200 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,480 your working group. 201 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,240 The poster sessions I found to be a really great place to discuss ideas with participants 202 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:46,120 who are presenting their work and to get new ideas and provide them with feedback. 203 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:52,160 There's also concurrent sessions that you can choose from to attend during the meeting. 204 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:57,160 And these usually are set up to look at new products from the project. 205 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:03,080 For example, the project might be putting together a new workshop and you can participate 206 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,000 in that workshop or part of that workshop and provide them feedback. 207 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,640 You can get an idea of what some of the new things are that are going to be presented 208 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,760 out in the summer workshops. 209 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,000 Or you could learn about a tool like the Optic tool that I think Chris mentioned earlier. 210 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,240 So if you don't know anything about the Optic tool, you can choose to attend this session 211 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:31,200 where they have you use the tool and then you can also provide feedback on the tool 212 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,860 to help improve it. 213 00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:41,160 So it's really a lot of working together to learn and provide feedback on different tools. 214 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,440 And then I think a favorite aspect of the meeting is at the end of the meeting, the 215 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,000 working groups present what they've been doing as part of a gallery walk. 216 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,960 And in the gallery walk, you get to find out what everybody else has been doing and you 217 00:15:53,960 --> 00:16:02,200 can even share how your working group goal or your working group tasks have aligned with 218 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,840 that particular working group. 219 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,880 So you find out more about the other working groups. 220 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,160 And this also gives you an opportunity to say, hey, I'm really interested in this. 221 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,160 I'd like to help out with this working group as well. 222 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,440 So there's lots of different things that go on. 223 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:17,440 Yeah. 224 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:23,280 So I just want to unpack a number of the things you mentioned, like a poster session. 225 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:32,180 So even though this is not like a normal research conference, there still is a research aspect 226 00:16:32,180 --> 00:16:34,280 that goes on. 227 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,960 People are sharing work that they're doing that are outside, kind of outside the working 228 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,880 group materials as well. 229 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:42,880 Is that right? 230 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:43,880 Yes. 231 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:44,880 Yes. 232 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:51,960 So you can choose to set up a meeting during some of the open work, open time and pick 233 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:52,960 whatever you want. 234 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,520 And then other people can choose to show up. 235 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:00,820 So you just look at, well, at least when we were in person, it would be on a whiteboard 236 00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:03,960 in the room and you would sign up virtually. 237 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,960 It was done a little differently, but you still have an opportunity to sign up and see 238 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:13,160 what other people were talking about and to join those sessions if you wanted to. 239 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,040 And so you mentioned this thing called open working time. 240 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:23,120 I just wanted to sort of tell our listeners that there is part of the meeting, which is 241 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:25,720 designed to be unstructured. 242 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:31,400 And what people do is sort of they gather, try and find other people who are interested 243 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:38,040 in this, a particular topic that doesn't necessarily relate directly to the strategic plan, but 244 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,040 it certainly is something that might be of interest to other people who are working in 245 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,520 the project. 246 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:51,840 And we'll say, we will meet at 2.30 during the open time and discuss X and anybody who's 247 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:52,840 available. 248 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,760 So when we were in person, we would do it at a particular time or we'd send out the 249 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,240 Zoom link. 250 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:05,040 And so Marty, about how much of this time is structured and how much is unstructured 251 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,240 in what we're doing at a PNM? 252 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,920 Yeah, I mean, the PNM is unique in terms of professional experiences. 253 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,040 I don't intend anything quite like it throughout the year. 254 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:23,480 As Suzanne's already mentioned, there's lots of different things going on, some of which 255 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:24,480 is structured. 256 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:31,640 So yes, we have working group time and yes, we do workshops and those types of things, 257 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:32,640 poster sessions. 258 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,760 We have a plenary speaker. 259 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:40,080 So there's opportunities for you to get developed, but also to contribute to the work of the 260 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,960 project, but also to have fun. 261 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,240 I mean, it's a collaborative meeting. 262 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:51,760 You're going to engage with lots of interesting people and there's time to be informal and 263 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,520 to socialize. 264 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,560 There's an afternoon at the meeting where we take several hours and there's nothing 265 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,400 structured and nothing scheduled. 266 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,240 For the last 10 or more years, we've been at Washington University in St. Louis near 267 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,640 Forest Park. 268 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,960 And so people will go on walks in the park or go to the zoo or go to the city museum, 269 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,840 go for bike rides. 270 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:20,680 There's all kinds of interesting things that people get together and do during that time. 271 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:26,800 So we believe that everything should not be structured and that we should provide this 272 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:34,000 time for open and informal networking and give people a chance to socialize and to build 273 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,000 those relationships. 274 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,520 I think the connectedness of the project is again, what makes it so unique. 275 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,440 Alex, if I could jump in. 276 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:50,360 Just to confirm and kind of reiterate what Suzanne and Marty were talking about in terms 277 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:52,680 of this being a different sort of meeting. 278 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:58,640 I mean, sometimes from the outside, you look at the Pogal project and say, it's a thing. 279 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,160 It's kind of like done. 280 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,320 What could I possibly have to contribute this? 281 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,640 Which is kind of the way that most people see a standard conference is everybody sharing 282 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,640 the product of their work. 283 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,560 The PNM and the Pogal project really is all about the process. 284 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:22,240 It's an ongoing process of developing professional development, developing materials and developing 285 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,720 ways in which people can participate in that. 286 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:35,120 And so it's a very much more open and engaging and set of activities that people can be invited 287 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:41,800 to continue to participate in and contribute to in terms of ongoing development. 288 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:47,840 I'd like to jump in there and also say that it's okay if you've never attended a PNM. 289 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:53,080 There's always spots for people to jump in and contribute and not feel like, oh, I can't 290 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,080 do that because I have never been involved. 291 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:02,480 There's very welcoming project that welcomes everybody at all different levels to participate 292 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:03,480 in the project. 293 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,600 Yeah, again, just to piggyback on that, we typically have 60 to 70 people that attend 294 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,960 in a given year. 295 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:17,200 And on average, 10 or 15 of those attendees are people that are new. 296 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:23,000 So yes, we definitely want folks who are going to be attending their very first PNM to give 297 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,440 it a consideration and to integrate and be part of the project. 298 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,240 We need fresh new ideas all the time. 299 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,280 Yeah, that's absolutely true. 300 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:40,040 I mean, I will also say that a number of people who have been sort of connected with other 301 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:49,640 activities, either just authoring POGAL activities but are just not really connected with all 302 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,040 of the other aspects of the POGAL project have sort of jumped in and said, hey, I'm 303 00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:00,160 kind of curious about what's going on at this national meeting and definitely reach out 304 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,080 to any of us to find out how to get involved. 305 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:12,120 I think the invitation is sort of an open invitation to find out what's going on every 306 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,840 year and then people apply. 307 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:21,480 And basically, as Marty said, the people who can be connected with various aspects of the 308 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:27,880 strategic plan through the working groups are the people that end up getting invitations 309 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,280 to come back to the PNM. 310 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,120 Did I get that right, more or less, in terms of the process? 311 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,400 Okay, great. 312 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:44,120 So we've touched on a couple of things here that there is working time that's structured 313 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:49,320 for everybody to meet and then there's some informal working time where we sort of get 314 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:56,960 together, either go for a walk in the park, but usually you still end up engaging in some 315 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:02,800 sort of discussion around professional development, even when you're out wandering through the 316 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,200 zoo. 317 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,960 And then we all sort of do our gallery walk at the end, as Suzanne alluded to, and you 318 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,120 sort of find out, and I think that I just want to say that the gallery walk is really 319 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,280 probably one of the coolest parts of the meeting where you get to see pretty much what all 320 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,860 of the other working groups were doing. 321 00:23:22,860 --> 00:23:24,480 And then we all go home. 322 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,920 And then what happens? 323 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,160 Somebody want to chime in? 324 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,400 Go ahead, Marty. 325 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:37,360 So again, the steering committee stays for another day after everybody goes home. 326 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:43,080 And so we begin to process all of that information. 327 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,920 Also want to point out, as we mentioned it earlier, the steering committee has liaisons 328 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,600 to every single working group. 329 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:57,360 And each working group has its own chair who is not a member of the steering committee. 330 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:04,400 So it's the steering committee's job to continue to follow up with the working groups throughout 331 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,400 the next year. 332 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,440 So we don't want, when the meeting ends, for the work to end. 333 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:17,760 We really want that to continue so that when we meet again, we've made more progress and 334 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,400 we're ready to continue to move that particular project forward or maybe to sunset it. 335 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,320 Maybe we've accomplished the goals of that particular project and we're ready to move 336 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,280 on to something different. 337 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,980 Another aspect of the strategic plan that maybe has not been as well addressed. 338 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:40,240 So we definitely want the work to not end, even though most people who attend the PNM 339 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,120 will tell you that they are really exhausted at the end. 340 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,680 But it's a good exhaustion. 341 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:53,680 We feel like we really contributed a lot and made a difference. 342 00:24:53,680 --> 00:25:00,400 So let me add a little bit in terms of, we mentioned the gallery walk a couple of times 343 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,320 and mentioned the fact that there are liaisons from the steering committee to each one of 344 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,120 the working groups. 345 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:16,280 One of the interesting structures here is trying to help the entire community make progress 346 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:21,240 forward on the goals, but at the same time, keep everybody informed as to what's going 347 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:27,840 on in different corners of the community because there's a lot of stuff that is happening. 348 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:34,160 And at the national meeting, that's when you have essentially all of the folks who are 349 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,840 most highly engaged doing stuff together at the same point. 350 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:46,200 So there's a number of things that we do where people are sharing their status within 351 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,440 each of the working groups. 352 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,160 That kind of happens kind of early towards the beginning of the meeting. 353 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,880 And then kind of a middle of the meeting report, quick report out on what's going on or where 354 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,760 they want input or insight or sub meetings to happen. 355 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,240 And then the gallery walk at the end kind of culminates the activity that's going on 356 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,440 there. 357 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,280 But everybody gets a chance to provide feedback to each of those groups. 358 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,040 It's structured into the activity that it's not just that you listen to what people have 359 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,440 to say about what they're doing, but there's time set aside for you to provide feedback. 360 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:28,100 And sometimes that's with Google Docs or sometimes that's with sticky notes or whatever. 361 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:32,240 But all of that information is collected and then the working groups have used that then 362 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,680 to gather information from the whole rest of the community about how the rest of the 363 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,920 community perceives the direction of their activity. 364 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,480 So I find that's a really interesting structure that kind of pulls everybody together, allows 365 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,600 everybody to kind of have transparency about what's going on and to communicate amongst 366 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,280 all of these groups. 367 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:58,280 And I think that's really been kind of essential and unique in terms of the whole organization. 368 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:04,040 So to address your question, I think earlier, Alex, about what happens after the meeting, 369 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,280 because you often don't finish all of your tasks during the meeting. 370 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,280 But as Chris mentioned, you get feedback from the whole community during the gallery walk. 371 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:21,240 And then we usually set up meetings once a month or so into the year, into the academic 372 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,800 year to meet with the working group team and have some assignments and make some progress 373 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,080 on the feedback and the tasks that we were assigned as part of the working group. 374 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,520 So generally we meet once a month or so and individuals work on little separate parts 375 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,200 of the tasks that were part of their working group. 376 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:47,840 And then report out to the steering committee liaison a couple times a year, I think, on 377 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,120 the progress the working group has made. 378 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:56,640 But it's flexible because we all know that things come up and perhaps December is not 379 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:57,720 a very good time to meet. 380 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,760 So we'll shift the month if people just haven't had a chance to work on stuff. 381 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:03,760 Yes. 382 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:10,320 And I also want to point out that the PNM has also been a place where side projects 383 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,120 have jumped out. 384 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,800 Myself I've been part of what's called the Pogel PCL group. 385 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,560 That's PCL is for PCAM lab. 386 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:27,200 So this was a group of physical chemists that got together and it ended up resulting into 387 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,920 National Science Foundation grants. 388 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,880 Suzanne, you've had the same experience, I believe. 389 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,240 You want to tell us a little bit about how that got started at the PNM and then what 390 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,920 you've done with it since in your group. 391 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,320 So you were referring to the ellipse project. 392 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,320 Correct. 393 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,320 Yes. 394 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:54,440 So part of it is we meet people at PNM that you see frequently every year. 395 00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:02,800 And part of how our National Science Foundation funding came about was I found out that a 396 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:09,880 couple of people were working on process skills in one area and then I was interested in that 397 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,360 and started doing some stuff on my own in a slightly different area. 398 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:22,320 And then we decided the next year maybe this would be a good idea to merge our two pieces 399 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,240 and write a grant proposal on process skills. 400 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:33,800 And that's in fact what we did and we worked that funded and it's called the ellipse project. 401 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,880 And it was a five-year grant which is we got an extension that is ending now. 402 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:45,640 But I think that we met each other and got the ideas from interacting at the Pogel National 403 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Meeting and then took it from there. 404 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:53,880 And in fact we've had some of our non-scheduled working group time has been with primary collaboration 405 00:29:53,880 --> 00:30:00,200 team members on that project and we meet at PNM in order to have some time together in 406 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,200 person. 407 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,700 And so that's some of the time that I've spent at PNM was working with people that are working 408 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:07,000 on that project as well. 409 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,000 So lots of connections. 410 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000 Yeah. 411 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:15,360 I mean I think that that's one of the great things about the PNM is you're not always 412 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,560 sure who you're going to meet and who you're going to talk to and what sort of interesting 413 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,880 collaboration may turn up as a result. 414 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:30,760 So anyway I want to thank you all for sharing your experiences about the PNM to our larger 415 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,600 audience. 416 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:38,800 Later on in this season of the Pogel podcast we will talk with other people associated 417 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,300 with some of the other working groups to describe their work with the project. 418 00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:49,600 So please tune into more Pogel podcast this season for more details on all the activities 419 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,520 of the Pogel project and how you can become involved with this community of practitioners. 420 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Thanks to all of you for listening to today's conversation on the Pogel podcast. 421 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,160 For additional details on how you can engage with the Pogel project or its working groups 422 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:10,840 contact associate director Marcy Dubroff at marcy.dubroff at pogel.org. 423 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:21,000 The Pogel project is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. 424 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:26,180 If you would like to make a donation so we can keep providing podcasts, low cost workshops 425 00:31:26,180 --> 00:31:33,360 and classroom materials please visit www.pogle.org backslash donate. 426 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,520 Intro and outro music of our podcast is produced by Pogel practitioner Wayne Pearson. 427 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,200 Please join us next time where we discuss the first of five goals of Pogel strategic 428 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,120 plan to grow and support Pogel practitioners. 429 00:31:47,120 --> 00:32:11,400 Until then, enjoy your week.