What's up you dirtbags, Luke and I are finally back in studio after a wild, wild week in Vegas.
Luke, how are we doing, man?
Dude, I am doing good.
It is Thursday today.
I'll be honest with you, like when Riley and I got home on Saturday, I was so excited to be home.
Our flight, we had to get up at 2:30.
We were at the airport by like 3:30, but the gates didn't open until 4.
I don't know.
I'm not a huge Vegas guy.
Conexpo is super fun.
But all of the people and like all the lights.
I'm a small town North Dakota boy.
Like put me in Medora, which has a population of 35 and I'll be happy.
Yeah, you only need one blackjack table.
Not, yeah, 50,000.
I will say I can't remember the guy's name.
But when we played blackjack the last night, he was at the stratosphere.
Yes.
I feel terrible.
Speaking of the Sphinx, I was dizzy when we were in this.
The Sphinx.
Yeah.
I mean, that thing spinning as you're sitting there eating, we had to go hats off and look at that.
And it looked almost identical to what it is right now.
I think you actually have decent hat head and mine was just so greasy.
And it was like, people obviously can't see if they're listening, but it was like up and
then straight down.
It looked great.
Yeah.
And then the photographer came around.
She's like pictures.
I was like, absolutely not.
No, we're okay.
I don't know, man.
Feels good to be back though.
I know it's been a while since we've done one just sitting at our computers here.
But what do you got drinking tonight?
Dude, I am having a big horn with a splash of sour.
I know I gave up drinking for a little bit, but tonight I have an exception.
I needed one.
Yeah.
Not because I was taking that a little bit, but one of those days.
Not because I had the shakes.
Yeah.
We got a little bit of a mixed bag here.
So in my new diamond dirt bag mug, got a little maker's mark, a couple of cubes of ice,
and then had a Corona in the fridge.
So I figured out.
You're double fisting tonight.
It was just the one lone one.
I was like, well, I mean, might as well do a ton of Delph.
Exactly.
And I'm not going to have it for breakfast.
So make sell, make more sense.
Do it when we, when we record.
No line.
What's up with that?
That's like, ah, yeah.
That's like the staple to a Corona in line.
I know it's kind of skunky when you don't have a line and yeah, I just couldn't find one.
So that's okay.
That's okay.
That happens.
But anyway, back to con Expo.
Super fun.
I met a lot of people that obviously that I've only ever talked to on Instagram.
So we talked about this at drinks with the dirtbags, but it was fun to put a face to the name or a name to the face.
There you go.
Let's say.
So that was super.
I really enjoyed that.
I think that was probably like the highlight of my trip there.
Yeah.
I mean, it was so busy and you know, for context.
So I flew in on Sunday and I left Friday morning.
So I had a lot of time there.
I was definitely ready to go by the end.
And you though, you flew in Tuesday night and a couple of delays.
And then he flew out Friday morning.
It wasn't Saturday.
It was Friday morning.
Early too.
And so I, from your perspective, and obviously it was both of our first times at con Expo, but we were, we had a packed schedule.
Oh, that's right.
It's the first time ever at Vegas.
So that was like, I got to have it all.
Yeah.
I mean, you literally had, you know, Vegas con Expo.
I mean, now I'm hearing that there is official numbers are out 130 over 139,000 people were there and it's over 3 million square feet of a show.
Wow.
It, yeah.
So it was more than John had said when we had talked.
He said, he said 2.8 million and I don't know where they got the extra couple hundred thousand, but yeah, the report said over 3 million square feet.
And I honestly, I believe it because we probably saw one 10th of the show.
That's super cool.
Like, and there was a lot of space.
And like you said, Riley, Riley and I, when we weren't with you guys, we were either at an event, at a, at a panel, or we were trying to divulge as much as we can by looking, but we didn't get very far.
Yeah.
So that's, I kind of wanted to ask you that too, because, you know, you can only do so much in a day there.
Cause I know at one point you and Riley were just like, all right, let's go sit down somewhere and grab some margaritas or whatever you guys had.
And, oh yeah, that's right.
Oh, that was on when, was that Thursday?
Yeah, Thursday.
And so you kept, you know, you, you spoke on a panel, you had a live podcast at the diamond Morris booth.
You had the drinks with the dirt bags.
Like, do you think it was busy enough?
Do you think it was too busy?
Would you do anything different?
Would you come earlier, leave later?
Like, what do you think about the show and what would you do differently just for you personally on your next trip?
That's a good one.
I mean, we had, we were booked with events.
I don't think we really could have taken on anymore just because of like the logistics of getting A to B.
It takes a while to obviously get around.
I would come, maybe I would have stayed the last day instead of coming earlier.
Cause I feel like everybody comes at that one time and then they kind of fizzle out through the week.
And again, I don't like huge crowds.
So, I mean, Tuesday was perfect, but probably leaving Saturday would have been, would have been a little bit better than 2.30 AM on Friday.
Yeah, I mean, and I can attest to, cause that was there Sunday, was there Monday at the show, but it wasn't technically open yet.
Tuesday was insane.
I mean, that was, Tuesday and Wednesday were by far the busiest days.
And I heard Saturday, it was like a little bit of a ghost town, which in what I think what you're saying here is that's probably a good thing.
Cause then you can go, and I don't remember if John told you this, but if any exhibitor packs up before 3.01,
PM on Saturday, they get fined.
They're not coming back.
And I was like, oh, sweet.
So it actually makes sense to come on Saturday cause there's not as many busy foot traffic, but you can also still go see everything.
I know that's wild.
Yeah.
And obviously with the 3 million square feet, that's no small task.
No.
But, yeah, I don't know.
Honestly though, like huge shout out to AEM, which is the association of equipment manufacturers.
So they own Kana Expo.
Like that's their show.
And they own Balma too, right?
Or Balma.
So they're, they don't.
They partner with Balma and they're like kind of help them out and Balma helps them out.
But it's just so crazy.
Like, so AEM, they're based out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and they've got over a hundred employees.
And it was crazy to see like the hospitality that they provided to us.
Like of all people, just they were so nice and they were like so helpful and so giving.
And I just, yeah, huge shout out to them because they made us feel like at home and that was our first show ever.
Yeah, I know that was super fun.
Very accommodating too for, you know, like drinks with the dirtbags and all.
They put that out.
That was awesome.
Hey, come see us.
Obviously your panel, my panel, and just the communication of how they're like, yep, nope, no problem.
We'll figure it out.
So that was, yeah, that was a, that was a crazy moment.
We were both in the bathroom.
Hand up.
I was sitting on the pot.
Yeah, I was at the urinals and my phone, you know, get a notification.
Of course, I'd, you know, take a look.
The official Kana Expo app, it says a push notification.
I don't know how many people had the app, but.
Drinks with the dirtbags happening in one hour, you know, host Luke Eggbrown and Luke Payne of the dirtbags podcast.
Like go have some drinks with them.
I was like, this is, this is not real life.
I told you to screenshot that and you're like, I can't, I, I missed it.
I totally missed it and that's on me, but you didn't have the app.
So I didn't have the app.
So I was just, I was just banking off what you said, but that was really fun.
And obviously we got to meet Taylor.
You know, he was in a panel right before us at that time.
And they're at that time and then Dave, I enjoyed talking to Dave.
His Taylor's dad, that was super fun.
Oh yeah.
I thought you meant Dave Turin, but yeah, Dave's awesome.
I mean, he's super cool.
I was trying to think of who he reminds me of.
It's one of our dads, like of our friend group, but I was like, man, this guy is, he's so thoughtful, like so sentimental, but just like.
He, he gets it, you know, and he gets the relationships and the friendships and everything.
And he's like, just so happy to be there.
And yeah, I think I'm gonna act him for a good, you know, five, 10, 15 minutes.
And it was a while.
Yeah.
It was like, man, this guy's cool.
And he had for what Taylor was doing was really cool.
You know, he's like, that's my son.
That's my son.
So that was, that was really cool.
I think my favorite story is when he was like, we had the option to go to Fremont street and I loaded everybody up and we went down to Fremont street.
And I was like, Ooh, that was interesting.
Ooh.
I don't remember Dylan with Dylan mercier sent us a snap.
Do you remember this loop?
Oh yeah.
And it was a gal in a costume, not a very good costume.
And she looked like Velma.
Oh yeah, dude, it, I could have sworn it was Velma.
If she put on, you know, here's Luke.
Oh, there was that.
That was funny.
That was one falling out with Chadwick at the black.
Yeah.
Velma really let herself go, but I guess he was like, oh, I'm gonna go with that.
I guess you kind of see that at Fremont more than the strip.
So it's kind of the, the second stringers, if you will, on Fremont street.
Correct.
No, but I mean, show was awesome.
Vegas, just not a huge Vegas guy.
If they were to do it in Nashville, fucking, oh boy up, dude.
I would be so in.
Do you think they could pull that off?
I mean, I was like, I'm Nashville.
Yeah.
I don't think they do either.
And I think Vegas is such a destination for, because there's so many people around the
world.
I can't remember how many countries, but I think it was 40.
That rings a bell, but it just like Vegas is so easy to get to.
And it's just in the middle of the desert.
But, but yeah, I mean, if you're there for 48 hours, you're, you're about ready to leave.
Yeah.
You're ready to pack up and go.
But so let's just, let's just say 2026, you know, dirt bags, everything's still going
well.
And you have the option to kind of create your schedule.
Like how many like is too many and how many like events do you do?
And like, do you have a booth there?
Like what's that game plan?
I would, I don't think I would do a booth just because me personally, I would not want
to be tied to a booth for that many days.
I agree.
Right.
Even if I was like a equipment manufacturer, I would not, unless there was people to
substitute, not a chance.
Me, no.
It'd be tough.
And then, I mean, eight to five and that's Tuesday to Saturday, like the whole way.
Um, I think there's no way, but yeah, I think like it's interesting because, you
know, there's so many collaboration opportunities and we got to kind of experiment
with that at this show and.
So it kind of works out best for both parties, like especially us and then, um,
whoever we're doing the collaboration with.
It's like, it brings new eyes and new people to their booth, but yeah, I don't
know.
I think I'm glad we didn't book more.
Um, but I'm really happy with how it turned out, which it was a business trip
and it felt like a business trip and we, you know, acted like it, but, um, it was,
it was a little exhausting.
Uh, and I felt just like a hair stressed at some points, but, but, you know, it
is what it is, right?
It is what it is.
You just roll with the punches, but like, if, like a perfect scenario schedule is.
I don't think somebody would be, I mean, maybe they could, I wouldn't want to, but
I wouldn't want more than like two events a day, right?
If you had a loud morning in the afternoon, because your whole day is
pretty much encompassed by set up during tear down, you know, you have a little
bit of time to maybe go eat and then you're headed to the next.
And then the show is pretty much, it's not over, but it's wrap it up, you know?
Yeah.
I almost wonder too, if like you just in the middle of the show, like on a
Wednesday, you just said, all right, nothing this day, this is where we go do
whenever we want.
And then yeah, Tuesday, you have two events, Thursday, Friday, maybe have a
couple of events, but, um, I think having that day kind of break up the business
days, I guess, um, I think might be a good, a good plan.
Yeah.
I was jealous. I saw James's, he was always taking snaps and put them on his
story and all the stuff that he saw.
And I was like, I, I have no idea where this is.
I wish I could go see that, but I don't have the time.
Yeah.
And you, you also like cut it short.
I mean, you had Wednesday, Thursday.
That's it.
I mean, you literally had two days, two days.
Yeah.
And you had loaded with stuff.
Yeah.
But no, man, it was good.
I know I'm sure people that didn't go are so sick of hearing about it because
I'm sure everyone's talking about everyone's talking about how great it was,
which it was so fun.
It's so awesome, but you just, you can't miss it on the next one.
Cause it's only every three years.
Correct.
And it's probably a good thing they only have it every three years, cause it
would be really tough to keep it as exciting and exciting.
It was like every two years, honestly, I mean, every three to five would be like
ideal, but obviously every three, it's good.
Yeah.
I a hundred percent agree.
And I know maybe this is something we could touch on just for a second.
Like, do you think that going to Con Expo?
Cause I feel like a lot of people that we know from Instagram or whatever,
like that went, that was their first, like, I guess you could say that was
their first big trade show.
Do you think that's going to open the door for a lot of people of like, oh,
I'm going to go to the utilities expo in Kentucky or, you know, this expo and,
and kind of travel about, or do you think it kind of just stops with Con Expo?
No, I think, I mean, it's not like it opened up.
I think you and I see a lot more exposure of it because we are, I mean,
our realm, I'll call it, the people that we follow and we interact with are young,
but it's been around for so long.
So it's not anything new.
Yeah.
I think the, I meant to structure that as like, yeah, like the, the, the
people like our dirt bags that have never been to a show and are, you know,
listening and then they, they go and they're like, that was so awesome.
We networked with a bunch of people.
We learned a lot.
Like, I wonder if that opens up like a traveling group, like a huge
community of people that are like, Hey, are you going to this show?
Hey, are you going to this one?
You know?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, no doubt.
I mean, the utility expo sounds super cool and like world of concrete, you
know, all of those, they're all so specifically related to an industry
to where I feel like maybe if you, you know, you don't have to go every year,
but if you go like every other year, you know, you're still gaining really
solid information to where the people that maybe don't go, they don't have
access to, maybe they just see and they don't know it's a reality type thing.
Yeah.
And I think I can see in the future too, you know, some even stemming off of
that, like not even a trade show, just some sort of like contractor meetup
and something where it's like, you know, the group of friends that are all
over the country that just want to go somewhere and have a, you know,
business meeting for three days somewhere.
I think you get a lot out of that, but also, you know, just building
those relationships and friendships.
Absolutely.
I agree.
But obviously kind of wrapping it up with ConExpo.
ConExpo was great.
Good to see everybody.
See you in 2026.
Get it out of here.
Now the real reason why I'm doing this is because I'm
doing this for real reason.
Luke and I have some pretty good topics for this next episode or for
this episode, I should say.
First one, Luke and Luke, I was going to say, Luke, we were just kind of
talking about right beforehand is obviously today being March 23rd.
When this airs, this will be April, right?
So think we are now in the April timeframe.
If you think back to the separation season episode, right?
We're past that now.
Now it's crunch time, right?
Now it is time to really put your boots on the ground and make sure that you are
making those connections if you already haven't, right?
Or now it is time to get your schedule in place.
Now it is time to start, you know, using different, say, job costing apps, you
know, time tracking apps, whatever, to make sure you get familiar, get
yourself familiar with them and your crew familiar with them so you can use
them effectively come start, because I know there's going to be a lot of
people probably within the next month that are going full on.
Yeah, I wrote down three words just as you're talking there because we had
talked, separation season, that was a huge episode for us.
It's one of my favorites because it was just from the heart.
We didn't even know we were going to talk about that.
And it was huge.
But now it's like springtime.
You can't just say like, oh, it's going to be slow.
Go do this and that.
Go knock on people's doors.
Go shake hands.
It's like the three words I wrote down, springtime, I mean, we're talking
implementation, so implementing what you, the systems, the ideas, everything
you had in the winter, you got to implement it.
If you don't implement it, you're going to be back where you were the previous
year where you didn't want to be.
Consistency, that's massive.
You want to get to the next separation season with like hitting your habits
every single day, every single week, every month, doing the things that
you promised yourself you would do.
So the consistency to get you to the next season is going to be huge.
And finally, delivering.
Like if you're talking to these project managers, these GCs, whoever you're
doing speaking with, you know, in the winter time, you need to show them like,
okay, it's not just a vanity.
You're not just all talk.
Like you need to deliver and you need to over deliver.
And that starts with your communication.
Finishing the job, like making their life easier.
And then that follow-up process too of like making sure they know you're ready
for the next one and you can handle it.
One that kind of comes to my mind from year three is discipline.
Making sure you're disciplined and following up and making sure that you
have some system that is keeping you on task, right?
Say it, whether it's you as the owner, you as an employee, you as a project
manager, right, you have a list of tasks to do, you know, whether you're right
them down daily and then you cross them off one by one, but just making sure
that nothing is falling through the cracks, right?
Like could be an email, could be a phone call and you know, you missed it and
it went to voicemail, you know, call them back, send that email back, make
sure that you are doing these things so you aren't missing out on opportunities.
I think that's huge.
You know, there are people that, that don't call them back, right?
You hear, I mean, so many contractors hear it all the time.
Well, so-and-so never called me back.
I reached out twice, blah, blah, blah.
Or they ghosted me or whatever.
Be disciplined, you know, and that kind of ties into the communication as well,
but be disciplined to make sure that you are doing those follow-ups.
You are, you know, getting back to people, you are doing what you're going to say.
So I think that's super important as well.
So I wanted to bring this up to you.
What would you say if, if it's more of the owner operator?
Because I think what happens is that when it gets busy, like they're the
one doing it and they're super busy and they can't focus on all this other stuff
and answering the phone and, you know, even doing like certain marketing things
to keep the business rolling.
Like what would you say to somebody that's, because there's a lot of them
out there and it's not a bad thing, but how, how does the owner operator stay
sane, but also keep the discipline, keep the consistency and, you know, the
discipline to keep growing?
Well, you got to have systems in place.
Right.
So I think of, think of on the day-to-day operations, right?
Your owner operator, you're in the field, you're in your pickup, you're kind
of all over the place, right?
Whatever you're doing.
Have, have a system in place, right?
So say you get a lot of emails during the day, right?
Yeah.
I don't know, maybe like an automatic response to these emails from when
maybe you get one, feel like, Hey, we'll get back to you at this, or, Hey,
got your email.
Thanks so much for the inquiry.
We'll get back to you here shortly, but yet maybe it doesn't, you know, it
doesn't show on red whenever that reply goes.
And then later that night you go through them, you know, figure out which ones
are junk, figure out which ones aren't, then you prioritize them.
Okay.
This was a really good lead.
This one will go somewhere eventually.
This one I'm just going to follow up with things like that.
Phone calls.
Every owner operator knows that their phone is probably ringing
unstopped during the day.
Sure. Buy some AirPods.
There you go.
If you have your phone and your AirPods with you, you can still run your machine
while talking on the phone.
And if you can't multitask by talking and running the machine, you
probably should be in business is as bad as that is to say, but do it.
Or I've seen headphones that Dane uses are big fucking
muffs and he's got a speaker, whatever here.
You can get a pair of those.
I don't know what those cost, you know, things like that.
Yeah.
I like that because I think what you're saying is that you don't need to be
sitting in the office, like typing on a keyboard, answering the phone as
like a secretary.
It's just like, and owner operators are already incredible at multitasking
because they do everything.
And so it's like, okay, like you said, just toss the AirPod in, get a set of
headphones, whatever, get used to answering the call and then, you know,
set expectations as well.
You know, Hey, can I get back to you at five o'clock?
I don't finishing up a job site.
And then just kind of setting those expectations.
But I think that'll help that owner operator, like get to that next level.
And then they can really do what they want to do.
If they want to keep operating, that's totally fine.
But then they have a little bit more of the resources to hire that
office staff to then field those, those leads, those calls, the hiring
applications, whatever it might be.
Correct.
If you, if you are good at following up with people and making sure that they
know that you've got their message, whether it's maybe you don't want to
answer the phone during the day, which is totally fine.
Set something up in your phone that sends them a text, right?
Hey, leave me a voicemail or shoot me a text.
Sorry, I can't get to you.
I will get back to you soon or something.
90% of them, you know, if they don't leave you a voicemail, they'll see that
text and they'll probably text you if they can.
Because yeah, really not a lot.
There's not a lot of landlines anymore.
There is, but there's not at the same time.
One thing I learned that I use daily is put an action item on the person
that's trying to contact you.
So, Hey, can you leave, like you said there, Hey, can you leave me a
voicemail so I can get back to it?
Hey, can you send me an overview in a text?
And then I leave it, and then I leave it unread until I get to it.
So having that person do an action item so that when you do get to it, they
have some work that they need to do to send over, that'll make your life a
lot easier and then that way everyone's not always waiting on you.
And I think that's just a small piece of delegating is, okay, what can you
do right now to help my life, help me out?
And it's send that over in a different way, leave it unread.
And then when you're ready to go through it, then you can kind of check that box.
Delegate what your customers do for you, right?
Because it's not, you don't have to bow down to them.
They can leave you a voicemail or, I mean, create an automated text.
Hey, get to you.
Here's my email or here's my cell number.
Text me what you're looking for, appreciate you reaching out.
We'll get back to you soon.
That is super easy to come up with.
Yeah.
And if it's something that's consistent, like if it is, you know, somebody's
looking for a quote or whatever it is, be like, Hey, that's great.
Can you send me address?
You know, a description, like what you're looking for budget, things like that.
That way you can, that part's already done.
You don't have to keep asking that every single time and you
can kind of get to the point.
Absolutely.
That's another one that I just kind of thought of.
I had a conversation with a guy today and he sent me a snap and he was, you
know, fuck this weather, blah, blah, blah.
It's cold here.
It's obviously still snowing.
It was warming up his machine.
And I think I just wrote back like, do, or what did I say?
I said, do what others hate and fuck, I can't remember the cold, but it was really good.
I felt like, damn it, Luke, I felt really, really good on that moment.
And he kind of disagreed with me.
He's like, wow, it's fucking cold.
You know, I'm, I'm worn down.
We weren't supposed to work all winter and blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, if you, if you continue to just have a good attitude about it,
your spirits will change as well.
Hey, I'm just, I'm glad for the hours.
I'm lucky to still be working.
I'm lucky to be out here.
I'm, you know, if you're with a good company, I've got a great job.
Look more towards that compared to fuck this, fuck that.
This is terrible.
My life sucks.
That'll help as well.
You know, for more, well, I mean, that could be in the employee and the owner side
because hopefully not the owner side, but if it is, that's going to transition
down to your guys and no one's going to be happy.
A hundred percent.
And your attitude and how you perceive situations, every single day, even the small
things that will change, in my opinion, that will change your life.
It, when you start to shift that and you start to look at more of the positive
things, it's just become less cranky, less grumpy, and you're like, oh wow.
It actually is a blessing to live in America.
Let's start there.
And, and just like to have what we have to have food on the table, but just
the way you kind of structure that, because there are people that are looking for work
that will do anything to have a job.
And so, that all comes from up here though.
That's like the one thing you can control and it's hard to teach that.
It's hard to tell somebody, Hey, look on the brighter side, man.
But that is in our advantage because you can control it.
You have a hundred percent control of your attitude and there's a 99%
of other things you have no control over.
Right.
The quote was love to do what others hate.
There you go.
I don't know where I got that, but yeah, he disagreed and he was like, nobody loves this,
blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, I do, you know, I would love to.
I'll tell myself that I love to and eventually I'll adopt it.
You know, I might not at the time, but I'm not going to let that show.
I'm going to try to have fun with it, try to make the most of it.
So, but I mean, it goes into mental toughness as well.
You do have to be mentally tough in any industry.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean, that's just good, especially, you know, we get a lot of business owners listening,
a lot of entrepreneurs that alone, you got to be mentally tough to do it.
So I think it, it's not for everybody, but it also helps like having that mindset already
to then see things in a different light.
Yeah.
And that, this whole conversation kind of ties back to, you know, Matt Studi's episode
with Sapphire Construction about, you know, wearing yourself down and burnout and things
like that.
And again, all of that can be avoidable.
Yeah, I understand you get tired when you're working 10, 12 hour days constantly.
I understand that, but also make the most of it, you know, cause it could like,
I'll shout out Jeremy here.
Jeremy says this with the snow guys all the time.
It could shut off at any minute, right?
Either you're going to bitch about hours or you're going to bitch about not having hours.
Which one gets you to a better place?
Having hours.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
Matt's the man.
He, him and I stayed in touch and we're building him a new website too for Sapphire.
And it's, it's, it's fun to see like, especially after, you know, when we had the podcast with
him, that was our first time, both of us meeting him and obviously us three have just been
keeping the ball rolling since.
So it's, it's always fun to kick it off with the podcast and you're like, man, you're,
you're pretty cool.
You're a cool dude.
It is, it's been fun to watch him.
It's, they're digging up right now.
It looks like they're on a bank or something.
And I was like, fuck.
Right here.
Gold here.
And also it's super fun to see him at it.
Cause I know that we'll be hopefully following suit shortly.
Soon.
Yeah.
Matt's a super cool guy.
Yeah.
I'll kind of pivot a little bit.
So one thing, definitely wanted to read this off, but got to give another shout out to
the kinetic leasing guys.
So our guys, Sam shot Luke, you and I, a LinkedIn message a couple of weeks ago.
This is what he said.
I just wanted to read this real quick.
He said, Hey, shout out to you both.
I never would have called kinetic if I haven't heard about them from you guys.
They got me out of a huge bind and made us able to purchase a machine we had on rent.
So basically gave him the capital to purchase it.
You don't save me a shitload of money.
And since we saved a bit, I'm able to bring on two more guys.
So thanks.
Keep it up.
I was like, I mean, Luke, obviously I sent the picture of the old goose, but I got the chills.
And I remember we died to Ryan and Jake and yeah, that was great.
And I'll, I'll let you finish and then I'll chime in after that.
But yeah, I was just going to say like it seeing that too.
I mean, cause the kinetic guys, they get it.
Like we're good friends with them.
They do just killer work in the construction industry.
And so I'm like, or so you and I are like, well, this just makes sense to do this partnership.
And, and they've had our back through a lot of stuff and they support the dirt bags university.
They support us financially.
They're just that partner that we want to be with.
And then to see a message like that from Sam, like unsolicited, he's just like, Hey,
shout out to you guys, like I went with them and they killed it and we're killing it together.
I was like, what more could you want?
Yeah.
They fucking praise God, baby.
Praise God, baby.
But no kind of playing off that.
Wow.
The old bond, praise God, baby.
Praise God.
He was hilarious.
I love that guy.
He's hilarious.
Oh, but at the same time, I'm like, when I hear that great, I'm glad you took our advice to go do it,
but we wouldn't plug them if they weren't as good as we say they are.
We're not just saying that to say that.
Like they really are a legit company.
And I always tell people, cause I get questions all the time, like, oh man, I wish, you know,
I wish my bank would let me do this or I wish, you know, I could do this, this.
I'm like, call the kinetic guys, you know, they'll look at your stuff.
They'll analyze everything for you.
They're going to help you, right?
They're not there to screw you, which there's a lot of people out just for the money.
They're not there to screw people.
They're not one of them though.
Yeah.
And I think what you and I are trying to build is a community of like, Hey, I'm just going to call
this person that they say to call and just ask them a couple of questions and be like, Hey, is this,
is this a bad deal?
Is this a good deal?
Like with my current bank or whoever, whatever you're trying to do.
And then they're just like, Oh yeah, we can take care of you much better than that.
Or they'll say, it's actually a great deal.
I would take it.
So it's more of like the education and having somebody you can at least trust a little bit more
than searching somebody random on Google.
Correct.
I mean, they've got such a solid team too, and just really good experience, right?
Well, they're sales guys.
I feel like they're sales guys, but they're not right there.
They're there again to help.
They want, they, again, when I say analyze, obviously through any banking process, you've
got to send your financials over.
When you do that, they're looking at that and like, okay, is this going to hurt this person?
Right?
Is this going to, is this going to put them in a bad position to where they aren't able to make
this payment and they're going to be transparent with you on that, you know, or if you're killing
it and they're like, hell, you could buy a lot more than this, but yeah, absolutely.
You know, they have that education with it.
Yeah.
And I think what really helps too is that you use them and Sam uses them and Devin and like
all these contractors that, you know, we know, we network with and people, other people that
haven't used them would know.
And so I think it's like, maybe that's something you and I can do is compile, which I don't
know if legally we can do that, but I don't know, that might be, that might be too much.
But, but you know what I mean?
I've just like, yeah.
And like people giving, you know, real honest, their opinion on what they think, but I'm
sure we could, you know, tell people who have used them and, you know, hey, you know, out
to them and see what their experience was or, you know, whatever, right.
Or we could do that.
But, but yeah, so I thought that was awesome.
I saw that.
I was like, you know, it's what we're doing in my opinion is, is working.
And, you know, from the start, we didn't want to just BS on a podcast every week or something.
It was, we wanted to bring resources in a consumable way and add value through some
sort of platform.
And the podcast has been the easiest way.
And in my opinion, one of my favorite things I get to do, you know, in, in my career.
I agree, dude.
I love just sitting down and talking because I feel like, I feel like you and I aren't
recording, but it's like, we're having a conversation.
Like we were sitting down at the blackjack table.
I was like, we should be recording.
Yeah.
This is great.
We should be.
That could be a new, that could be a new segment.
We got to bring Chadwick with us though.
So, dude, that table with him, that would have been so fun to record and then just put
it out as a podcast.
That would have been so fun.
Cause we were playing like the side bets.
And then when we didn't play the side bets, they would hit and yeah, it was just so much
fun and whoever the Mark guy was, Mark was fucking chirping us.
Cause he's like, oh yeah, these two, they're wives.
And we're like, yeah, they're right there.
Like, well, he, he thought we were together.
You know, and we're like, no, we don't play that way.
We're from, we're from North Dakota, man.
Yeah.
And cause it was just you and I sitting there and, and I don't know what we did to tip them
off, but he's like, we're like, yeah, our wives are coming.
He's like, room, like here is because it was Luke and we got that a lot too.
Like I'm Luke.
I'm also Luke.
And they're like, well, that's easy.
Yeah.
It was funny.
But yeah, Chadwick was the man not to plug him again, but yeah, man.
I mean, obviously separation season, put your boots on the ground, right?
It is, it, it is that time.
If you're, if you're not a snow removal guy and you don't have a lot of snow, guess what?
The weather is going to start becoming warmer.
You're going to get a lot more calls.
People are anxious to get their projects done.
There's the amount of commercial projects in our area right now is insane.
Yeah.
You know, I'm sure residential has died down a little bit, but has it really died down?
Take it back to 2017, 2018.
It's probably still better than it was at that time.
Right.
Things like that.
So you got to look at it in retrospect, but I mean, the commercial world is absolutely crazy.
There's still a lot of work and a lot of volatility.
Excuse me.
The whiskey is getting to me in the residential space, right?
You just have to put yourself out there.
This is a, this is a good story.
I got two stories for you.
So today I was driving.
I was down a highway right down in Fargo and cruising around, you know, cruising along.
And I always keep business cards with me and I saw in front of me, it was a, it was a home builder
and I've never heard of them before.
I just saw, you know, their logo on the truck, whatever.
And I was right behind him and there was a string of red lights.
And I was like, all right, no way we get behind a red light and I'm running up to his pickup
and giving him a business card.
And this is a true story.
No way.
Oh yeah, dude.
So we finally hit one.
It hits yellow.
I see him tap the brakes and like, got unreal right behind him.
And I get out to him, stop and I slam in a park, get out and I'm knocking on his door.
He jumps and I'm like, sorry.
Then I showed him my business card and he rolled down his window and I said,
Hey, saw you were a home builder.
I just wanted to give you my business.
Oh my gosh.
He's a good earth work guy.
Let me know.
And he goes, kind of looks at me and he goes, thanks.
And I ran back to my pickup because it was turning green, but I was like,
he'll never forget that.
That was, that was perfect.
I mean, if people listening, if you're trying to come up with an excuse of why you can't get any work,
Luke just crashed it for you.
Add a red light, red enough to get the window.
And I legit should have videoed that because when I told him, oh, that's hilarious.
He says, no, you didn't.
I'm like, yeah, dude.
Absolutely.
I would do that any day.
You know what I just thought of?
It's like, it's, it's confidence.
You got to have a pair of nuts and you got to not care what people think about you.
Cause you're like, Hey, worst case scenario, you think some weird guy that just knocked
on his window at a red light, gave him a business card.
Best case scenario, we get, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars over
30 years with a great relationship with this home builder.
I would take, I would take that chance.
I would say either or right.
And I was like playing scenarios in my head of like, what could happen?
Cause I'm like, this is a little unorthodox.
And if he didn't got a gun with though, I was prepared to just shove my card into that
window seal or just on his windshield wiper.
Yeah.
So it wouldn't leave.
So I was ready for it, but yeah, he rolled his window down.
He's a nice guy.
So that's hilarious.
Little taken off guard though.
He's going to be looking at them and be like, man, this guy had a, this guy had a pair in
between his legs.
I'm going to get a call and I'll drag it on the road when he was walking back.
Oh, he's going to look at his current, whoever he's doing his current, you know, earthwork
and he's like, you know, they need to step up.
They need to step up their game.
This guy is just like on it right now.
And I feel like, and I don't want to go down this rabbit hole, but that's a good way to
get into that good old boys.
Sit a boys club.
Hell yeah.
The boys club.
Yeah.
It's like, oh, it's been, they've been doing it worked out for 45 years.
It's like, Hey, show them what you can do.
Like give them a chance.
And, but you gotta like be different a little bit.
You can't just send them a cold email because you're just going to get, nobody's going to
read it, but oh yeah, you might.
I mean, emails are good, right?
If you, if you get it, if you get in front of them at the right time, like, yeah.
Oh, Hey, for sure.
You know, we can send you some or, you know, I think you have to word it correctly.
And exactly, you know, you can't go out there and be like, hi, my name is, my name is, my
name is so-and-so.
I am a 24 year old business owner in the state of North, you know, it can't be like that.
And then whenever I send an email like that, it's, Hey, I'm Luke Payne.
I own this company.
I'm in the area.
I saw you driving around, wanted to reach out.
If you need, you know, if you're ever looking for numbers on this scope, yeah, I'd love
to see if I can be competitive.
Not trying to step on any toes.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Because when you say it like that, you're making their life easier.
And you know, they're like, Oh, sure.
Where if you're like, Hey, I own this company, we want to work with you.
It's like, that's you, you, you, you just want to get paid.
You just want the work, things like that.
But you're structuring it in a way that you're giving them value.
You're adding value to them.
You're like, I don't want to step on any toes.
This is what we do.
Here's how you can find us.
Here's how you can contact us.
Let me know because we will do it for you.
And so I think the way you structure it, like you said, emails aren't bad.
It's just the way you say it and the way you come up.
And the way you come up.
You got to have selective word choice.
You got to add value before you ask for anything.
Correct.
No, absolutely.
Okay.
So story number two, opposite end of the spectrum.
And I'll have to be, I'll have to choose my words here carefully because
we'll see where this goes.
But I pulled it.
I shouldn't even say that.
I didn't pull a will, a will, right?
I wasn't on job sites, scoping guys, right?
I, I will was.
He will.
He was.
He would walk up to the job site and be like, hey, you want a job to the foreman
and the supervisor or whoever.
And this is a long time ago too.
This was, he was like 19 or 20 years old when he was doing that.
Yeah.
Fucking crazy.
Yeah.
I don't have that big of balls, but there's a company in town and I know a couple of the
guys that work there and you know, long story short, some of them have come and work for me.
You know, they just, they just wanted to change the scenery.
It's weird because it's, I don't know how to like say it without sounding bad, but
they've left this company because of culture, right?
It's not because of more money.
I didn't offer anybody more money nor did I reach out to any of them directly in the
first place, right?
A lot of them kind of found us and they've seen what we're doing and they wanted to hop on,
but they left this company because of culture and bad leadership.
And I, you know, put the nail on the coffin today, hired his,
hired four guys from this guy and I feel bad, but I don't at the same time because they're
great guys and I'm anxious to have them on.
But he calls me up and he just lays into me like, you motherfucker, you piece of shit, blah,
blah, blah.
And so I'm listening to this guy just go on and on and on and telling me how bad I am.
But at the same time, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, you are the only person that you
can blame in this situation because I'm not paying your guys more, right?
I set them at my starting wage, right?
But if they show me that they're worth it, absolutely, I'll give them more than what you
were, right?
But my incentive isn't money.
My incentive is what we're doing, I feel like.
And I feel like that in a roundabout way could kind of be a lesson to where some people
aren't incentivized by money.
They're incentivized by happiness.
They're incentivized by what the company is going to become, where they're going, what
their values are, things like that.
Yeah, so from an outsider looking in, because obviously my business is a lot different
and you want to be in a position where people want to come work for you as a construction
company.
I mean, just of course that makes sense.
So I'm trying to figure out the best way to phrase it, but how do you not become the bad
guy in that situation if you're not going out and targeting these people, if you're
not adding more money, if you're just like, yeah, if they come to you and say, hey, Luke,
we want to come work for your company.
We love what you're doing.
Sure, we've been at this business for 10, 15 years, but we love what you're doing.
Like, how do you say no to that?
And also like, you don't.
You don't.
But, and that's not being a bad guy because guess what?
Sure.
Like during that conversation, it was all about, you know, why are you doing this?
You have to do this, this and that.
I'm like, who the fuck are you to tell me what to do?
I'm in business too, motherfucker.
Right.
And these are some solid dudes.
I don't give, I'm sorry, but I don't give a fuck about your business.
We're in two completely different realms.
I want good, these are great guys.
I'm going to, just because you have a job, I'm not going to be like, sorry, can't hire
you, you know, you're currently employed somewhere.
Fuck no.
Yeah.
I mean, you're going to be the bad guy regardless.
So in my opinion, I would rather be the bad guy with great people.
And, you know, I'm sure he'll, I'm sure he'll go and tell people how I operate and how I'm
trying to poach everybody, which is true.
But I also have, as myself, have to stay true to my core values and if people believe that, sure.
You know, but then also go and meet people, show people who I am, you know?
So I don't know.
So businesses, the simplest term is business is business.
Right.
Yeah.
You have to look out for you.
So let me flip it around then.
I think this will be a good exercise is saying, okay, put yourself maybe in his shoes or actually
just use yourself with, if these guys or your guys have been with you the longest are leaving
for one company in town and I know you would handle it a lot differently, but like, is it
kind of just like, yeah, I mean, the grass isn't always greener.
Like, I'm sorry, it didn't work out, but you're probably not coming back.
Like, what do you do if people start jumping ship theoretically in your business?
Well, it's funny because he asked me that question.
He told me he's going to hire a mole and he's going to make me hire this guy and he's going
to figure out what I'm paying everybody and then he's going to report back and pay them more.
And I'm like, that's not the problem at hand here.
I said, and I started losing, you know, two of these guys had been there for over 16 years.
Wow.
Years they have been at this company.
And again, I wasn't going out and I wasn't like, hey, come over here, come over here,
grass is greener, grass is greener.
They'd just seen what we'd become.
But I mean, he asked me, what if I do that to you?
And I'm like, honestly, I have to reevaluate what I'm doing because if people are leaving me,
that's not their problem.
They're trying to better themselves.
That's my fucking problem.
I feel like it's the same with employees.
It's also the same with your clients.
I mean, if there's a home builder or a commercial project or even a residential
client, we could say for this, if they say, oh, I'm going to go with this other company for XYZ,
it's like, it's not on them.
It's on you of like, either it's perceived indifference, like you didn't communicate well
enough, you're not delivering, or in the employee case, like it's just the vision, the culture,
the money, like whatever the issue is, like might be reworked.
And so I always see that as an opportunity to kind of fix and mend your business and not
go after like, I mean, but I mean, I get it.
Like I would, but at the same time, it's not the employer's fault that these people that say,
theoretically, my guys were going to them saying, hey, I'm sick of it here.
What do you got?
Do you have any positions open?
You know, chances are in this market, people will just open positions if they don't.
Yeah.
Did you have open positions or did you kind of do that and like kind of open something
and move things around?
Because I know you'd need guys.
Oh yeah, we always need guys.
Like that I will take any, I shouldn't say anybody.
I will take really good people and make sure that they have a place, right?
Because the conversations that I've had with them, you know, they're not old, you know,
but they're mid thirties, close to forties.
And they're like, I'm looking for retirement.
I am looking for a place that I do not want to have to move again.
So I see that I'm like, this is going to be fantastic.
I've got 20 years with this guy.
What can I accomplish with this guy in 20 years?
So fuck it.
I'm going to make a space for him.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So obviously the internet's a crazy place and I wouldn't put it past anyone,
but if somebody said, I'm sick of my job, I'm in Louisiana.
If I flew up and lived up in North Dakota, could I come work with you?
Like in that situation, is it the same or is it a bit different because of the commitment
that they would have to, you know, I know, I mean, there's a lot of that guy is being
very vulnerable, right?
Sure.
Taking a huge shot and he, if that person is doing that, they better make sure that
they're showing up with their, you know, with your boots on, right?
Show that employer that you want to stick around, right?
Unless there's a company that absolutely cannot find people, they probably don't apply because
there's a reason they can't find people.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
So, I mean, if you are that person and you're like, I'm not happy where I'm at, but I see
somebody over in, I'm in Louisiana and I see somebody over in Canada that is killing it.
They look like they're a great leader.
You're going to have to be vulnerable, but you're going to have to kick some ass in order
to get that job.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not like a given that just because we're hiring, like it doesn't
mean you just get handed anything.
Correct.
No, you still got to, yeah, like you said, show up with your boots on and, and over deliver.
Correct.
To kind of climb up that ladder.
Absolutely.
And my situation is a little bit different because I've known these guys for a long time,
obviously, Brian and our community, it's small, you know, what I think is a bigger
town, but it's small.
So I know them.
So yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I vowed for them and make sure that they're comfortable and they're happy so that
we can build a really good system together.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
It's interesting because you don't like seek to be the bad guy or want to steal anyone,
but same time too, like you said, it's just, these are good people that wanted to leave
and wanted to come to you.
And it's like, yeah, absolutely.
Well, we'll take you in and we'll try and build this mission.
And everyone has, you know, aspirations and has a personal life and has a, you know, a
want to build a career.
And so if they're not, if that's not satisfied, then, you know, I would probably want to move
out as well.
Same.
Yeah.
And if, and if after so much time you've given to a company and you don't see any type of
improvement in how, in your system, I'll say, yeah, it's probably time to leave.
Just in my opinion.
If they're not trying to better you as well with you giving as much time as you are to
them, probably not a good fit.
Yeah.
No, I think that's, I think that's very fair.
And yeah, it's crazy that we, you know, it's business.
It's business.
Like you said, it's business and if it's anybody you know, but that same thing, right?
There's right to work states.
There's no employer that owns any of his employees, right?
Slave days are over.
Those aren't a thing anymore.
They can go wherever the fuck they want.
So don't be afraid.
If somebody comes to you and they're local, fucking, and if they're, if know what they're
about and you know, they're good.
That's another, you know, good point of social media.
You know, you can tell pretty good people by what they put out on their social medias.
Yeah.
No, do it.
Because again, this market is really tough.
It's funny because I talked to my attorney after that and I was like, hey, this was said,
what are your thoughts on this?
And obviously we talked about a couple of things and she's like, Luke, it's a fucking
doggy dog world out there.
She's like, why would you not take these guys on if they're coming to you?
Even if you fucking went to them, it's not illegal.
Right?
Is it best business practices?
You know, it depends on who you ask, right?
You ask Will, hell no.
I got my best guys by doing that.
You know, you ask somebody else, fuck yeah, they're burning bridges.
You know, who?
Who's, you know, whose bridges am I burning?
Yours?
I don't know.
So it kind of a rant on that one, but it just take the good people, take the chance.
I like it.
I think you helped us get to the title of this podcast.
So well, we've got a few ideas now.
Good, good.
About time we come up with the title because I've, yeah, the team, the last six, probably
the last, yeah, probably the last six, six to eight, I would say six to eight months.
Oh, the titles are the fun part.
I wanted to touch on a couple other things before we wrap up.
I know we've been cruising through this podcast.
So, so if anybody's still listening, sorry to hear my rants.
No, this, I think that was perfect though, because I think it was something that needed
to be touched on and I don't think we've really touched on it before as far as like,
because the situation hadn't, it had come up before, but we didn't really dive into
it.
So it's like it did.
Yeah.
Like it did today.
And that's why you've got the glass of whiskey.
That's fine drinking.
So a couple of things, Dirtbags University, for those that are listening, that are still
listening that don't know what it is, basically it is a educational session.
It is a live webinar that Luke and I put on privately.
We bring in a speaker to, instead of just the podcast where you're learning, you're
getting value, the webinars, it's like a classroom setting where you got pen to paper,
you got your drink.
It's usually on a Monday night at 730 central, but we are all there to learn something.
So I can't say what we have in store, but there's a 80% chance that we have a huge
Dirtbags University coming up in the next few weeks.
It is going to be a, I don't want to say it's going to be better than Wills, but it
might be better than Wills.
And I think that was the thing is like after Wills, everyone's jobs were on the floor
and it was, it was so insane.
You know, if you don't come to the next one.
Come to the next one.
Will absolutely went above and beyond for that university.
And so we're like, how do we come close to Wills?
How do we try and one up it?
So Luke, I know you and I have been on the drawing board here and at ConExpo, had a
couple of things aligned where something big could happen.
And so we just got to close and hopefully we make it work.
Let's get it.
I, Luke, I'm going to, this again was because of you.
So I'm putting my faith in your hands, man.
You got it.
Dude, I think it's going to work and it's going to be, we're going to have a good time.
So don't miss it.
Absolutely.
I'm anxious for it.
Yeah.
I think lastly, my last note was be a Savage.
So if you want to close on that, be a fucking Savage.
Right?
You are in business to be in business.
You are not in business to help other businesses.
Sure.
Can you have mutual respect relationships?
But guess what?
You're comp, you will not lose people if you paint the picture where you want to be and
you help your guys get to where they want to be.
You will never lose anybody that way.
Right?
You lose people when you start fucking them.
Hell yeah.
That's all I got to say.
That's, that's the best way to put it, but be a fucking Savage.
Be a Savage for your people and don't give a fuck about anybody else.
I think that's a wrap.
I think that is the title.
I've got be a Savage written down title.
Yeah, man, we cruise through, I think we're at an hour right now.
That was a good one.
I mean, that didn't feel like an hour personally, but I went off on tangents.
So again, anybody listening, thanks for listening.
I'll, I'll try to be more well orchestrated next time.
No, I think that was perfect, Luke.
I mean, that's, we, we, we'll have a few dirtbags that are still listening right now.
And those are the real ones, but yeah, we always talk about that.
That is the point isn't to run through a bunch of questions and answers.
It's to dive deep into, like you said, we're, it didn't even feel like we're on a podcast.
It's we're having a conversation, but we're having a valuable conversation
where we're diving deep into a topic.
And so I'm going to have to go back and even see what we talked about,
but I know there's like five or six huge topics that we just dove into.
So I think that's a wrap.
We've got dirtbags university coming up.
Keep your eyes peeled for that.
It's going to be a big one.
And yeah, Luke, it's always good to be back in studio, man.
Cheers, brother.
I wish I would have brought my mug.
So next, next one we record, I'll bring it, but next one.
All right.
We'll see you soon.